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7 billion deluded

RuvDraba
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5/21/2016 9:05:31 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?
Jane I'm sure you know the reasoning that goes from common intuition to reliable knowledge is a fallacy called the ad populum fallacy. It's the fallacy that says because everyone believes disease is caused by demons, it cannot be caused by bacteria.

So let's talk about how falsehood can become popular despite being wrong.

Here's what I believe is the core issue.

Among people who are ignorant, scared and powerless, what is true matters less than how it makes them feel. The people who believe in gods largely didn't invent their beliefs, and they certainly didn't observe reliable evidence of gods, but rather inherited their beliefs along with the language and traditions of their parents.

Those beliefs became institutionalised centuries and even millennia ago when the clergy promoting them ingratiated themselves into the favour of emperors, monarchs and autocrats. In exchange for state favour, clergy became the communicators of state propaganda: the king is chosen by God and you must revere him; you must pay your taxes and obey the king's laws. There was no newspaper, radio or TV, but there was state-guaranteed church attendance. So everyone had to go at least once a week and listen to whatever the state wanted them to hear, plus whatever self-promotion the clergy added, plus whatever social messages they thought appropriate, plus do some singing and community bonding to make propaganda feel more like fun.

Although religions saw many irreconcilable schisms (another sign that the religious can't tell truth from falsehood), it was a very stable through to the Renaissance. Under state-enforced religion you couldn't choose your faith. You were told what it was, and if you resisted you'd be punished. However, that system broke down in the Enlightenment, when ordinary people began to realise they could find out answers without the use of clergy. Firstly, growing literacy encouraged Protestants to dismiss clergy and read scriptures for themselves, but secondly, the ability to observe and record nature encouraged intellectuals to question scripture and eventually debunk it.

Today, with literacy so high, the developed world has become streamed into those:
1) who don't believe what their ancestors did but remain religious by tradition anyway (religious mainstream);
2) who reject modern knowledge in order to better try to resemble their ancestors' beliefs and traditions (religious fundamentalists);
3) trying to reconcile religion with modern knowledge and insight and who are thus transforming faith (religious progressives); and
4) who have faced the fact that religious doctrine has always been wrong and often been cruel, and realised it has no authority anyway (religious nones.)

Essentially what's happening in the developed world is that the religious mainstream is gradually being depleted into the other three categories. Category 3 wants a modern world and is willing to transform religion to bring it along. Category 4 wants a modern world and either doesn't want religion or doesn't care whether it comes along; while Category 2 doesn't want a modern world and is using religion as an excuse to become increasingly nationalistic, antimodernist, antisecular and intellectually isolated from anyone else.

That's how billions of people can be wrong, and also why they won't stay so badly wrong forever.
Leugen9001
Posts: 495
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5/21/2016 10:13:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

Bloodletting must cure diseases. How can all those people in history be deluded?
:) nac
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,608
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5/21/2016 10:36:06 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

The important words are"some kind of God". No one ever tries to define their perception of God other than what their holy book tells them. Science knows that there is intelligence to the universe. Isn't it just possible that that intelligence is God? I think it makes perfect sense.
dee-em
Posts: 6,451
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5/22/2016 12:10:31 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

Easily. A large proportion of the population in western countries take dietary supplements with almost no evidence of efficacy. It makes them feel good or at least less guilty about their poor dietary habits.
dee-em
Posts: 6,451
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5/22/2016 12:12:22 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 10:36:06 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

The important words are"some kind of God". No one ever tries to define their perception of God other than what their holy book tells them.

Science knows that there is intelligence to the universe.

Would you care to support this statement?

Isn't it just possible that that intelligence is God? I think it makes perfect sense.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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5/22/2016 12:22:05 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

Yer ser rirght

Hur hur der der hur
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,608
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5/22/2016 12:24:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 12:12:22 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/21/2016 10:36:06 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

The important words are"some kind of God". No one ever tries to define their perception of God other than what their holy book tells them.

Science knows that there is intelligence to the universe.

Would you care to support this statement?

You are part of the universe. You exhibit a degree of intelligence and are aware. The animals exhibit an innate intelligence as do vegetation. The planets rotate around the sun. Stars are created and die. There is intelligence in all of this. Even if you don't believe in these somewhat factual statements and think everything is random, something had to start off or spark everything.; an intelligence beyond our understanding.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/22/2016 12:28:56 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 9:05:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?
Jane I'm sure you know the reasoning that goes from common intuition to reliable knowledge is a fallacy called the ad populum fallacy. It's the fallacy that says because everyone believes disease is caused by demons, it cannot be caused by bacteria.

So let's talk about how falsehood can become popular despite being wrong.

Here's what I believe is the core issue.

Among people who are ignorant, scared and powerless, what is true matters less than how it makes them feel. The people who believe in gods largely didn't invent their beliefs, and they certainly didn't observe reliable evidence of gods, but rather inherited their beliefs along with the language and traditions of their parents.

Those beliefs became institutionalised centuries and even millennia ago when the clergy promoting them ingratiated themselves into the favour of emperors, monarchs and autocrats. In exchange for state favour, clergy became the communicators of state propaganda: the king is chosen by God and you must revere him; you must pay your taxes and obey the king's laws. There was no newspaper, radio or TV, but there was state-guaranteed church attendance. So everyone had to go at least once a week and listen to whatever the state wanted them to hear, plus whatever self-promotion the clergy added, plus whatever social messages they thought appropriate, plus do some singing and community bonding to make propaganda feel more like fun.

Although religions saw many irreconcilable schisms (another sign that the religious can't tell truth from falsehood), it was a very stable through to the Renaissance. Under state-enforced religion you couldn't choose your faith. You were told what it was, and if you resisted you'd be punished. However, that system broke down in the Enlightenment, when ordinary people began to realise they could find out answers without the use of clergy. Firstly, growing literacy encouraged Protestants to dismiss clergy and read scriptures for themselves, but secondly, the ability to observe and record nature encouraged intellectuals to question scripture and eventually debunk it.

Today, with literacy so high, the developed world has become streamed into those:
1) who don't believe what their ancestors did but remain religious by tradition anyway (religious mainstream);
2) who reject modern knowledge in order to better try to resemble their ancestors' beliefs and traditions (religious fundamentalists);
3) trying to reconcile religion with modern knowledge and insight and who are thus transforming faith (religious progressives); and
4) who have faced the fact that religious doctrine has always been wrong and often been cruel, and realised it has no authority anyway (religious nones.)

Essentially what's happening in the developed world is that the religious mainstream is gradually being depleted into the other three categories. Category 3 wants a modern world and is willing to transform religion to bring it along. Category 4 wants a modern world and either doesn't want religion or doesn't care whether it comes along; while Category 2 doesn't want a modern world and is using religion as an excuse to become increasingly nationalistic, antimodernist, antisecular and intellectually isolated from anyone else.

That's how billions of people can be wrong, and also why they won't stay so badly wrong forever.

Let's take a peek...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/22/2016 12:30:50 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
From all phillosophical directions there is a mathematical singularity within infinity.

If infinity does not exist, we cannot exist. The idea of a finite time/space model suggests nothing had ever happened or ever existed, not time, not space, nothing, but magically it all simply came to be.

Within infinity we actually can exist in real life. But infinity has a unique quality. Within it is everything that is possible. There are infinite you's, me's, Earth's, United States, infinite everything. And there was no first you. You have always been in infinite number and infinitely in time. There is no last you. There simply are eternal you's, eternal everything.

And...there is the singularity. The most that is possible. The highest conceivable being. Within infinity this Being has never not existed. This Being is the highest singularity. This being is God, the undestroyable, highest conceivable, immortal, eternal, master of all things. Period.

The things working against atheism are:

1)Common sense
2)Math
3)Infinity
4)Desire or need for God to not exist
5)Denial
6)No desire to find God
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
dee-em
Posts: 6,451
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5/22/2016 12:35:07 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 12:24:28 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:12:22 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/21/2016 10:36:06 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

The important words are"some kind of God". No one ever tries to define their perception of God other than what their holy book tells them.

Science knows that there is intelligence to the universe.

Would you care to support this statement?

You are part of the universe. You exhibit a degree of intelligence and are aware. The animals exhibit an innate intelligence as do vegetation.

So intelligence has evolved on one planet that we know of. How does this support the statement that "there is intelligence to the universe"?

The planets rotate around the sun. Stars are created and die. There is intelligence in all of this.

That is an assertion. You were asked to support your case that "science knows this".

Even if you don't believe in these somewhat factual statements and think everything is random, something had to start off or spark everything.; an intelligence beyond our understanding.

Again an unsupported assertion about intelligent purpose. Where does science support this?
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,608
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5/22/2016 12:41:47 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 12:35:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:24:28 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:12:22 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/21/2016 10:36:06 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

The important words are"some kind of God". No one ever tries to define their perception of God other than what their holy book tells them.

Science knows that there is intelligence to the universe.

Would you care to support this statement?

You are part of the universe. You exhibit a degree of intelligence and are aware. The animals exhibit an innate intelligence as do vegetation.

So intelligence has evolved on one planet that we know of. How does this support the statement that "there is intelligence to the universe"?

The earth is part of the universe...so...yes there is intelligence to the universe.

The planets rotate around the sun. Stars are created and die. There is intelligence in all of this.

That is an assertion. You were asked to support your case that "science knows this".

Come on man. Go back to grade 3 and remember what they taught you about our solar system.

Even if you don't believe in these somewhat factual statements and think everything is random, something had to start off or spark everything.; an intelligence beyond our understanding.

Again an unsupported assertion about intelligent purpose. Where does science support this?

The Big Bang.
dee-em
Posts: 6,451
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5/22/2016 12:55:55 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 12:41:47 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:35:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:24:28 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:12:22 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/21/2016 10:36:06 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

The important words are"some kind of God". No one ever tries to define their perception of God other than what their holy book tells them.

Science knows that there is intelligence to the universe.

Would you care to support this statement?

You are part of the universe. You exhibit a degree of intelligence and are aware. The animals exhibit an innate intelligence as do vegetation.

So intelligence has evolved on one planet that we know of. How does this support the statement that "there is intelligence to the universe"?

The earth is part of the universe...so...yes there is intelligence to the universe.

Lol. Fallacy of composition.

The planets rotate around the sun. Stars are created and die. There is intelligence in all of this.

That is an assertion. You were asked to support your case that "science knows this".

Come on man. Go back to grade 3 and remember what they taught you about our solar system.

Where did they teach that the solar system was intelligently designed? Was there an intelligence behind having the Earth regularly bombarded with meteors and comets resulting in mass extinctions?

Even if you don't believe in these somewhat factual statements and think everything is random, something had to start off or spark everything.; an intelligence beyond our understanding.

Again an unsupported assertion about intelligent purpose. Where does science support this?

The Big Bang.

It's news to me that the Big Bang is the result of intelligent action. Please support this. How many times do I need to ask?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/22/2016 1:04:48 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 12:28:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/21/2016 9:05:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?
Jane I'm sure you know the reasoning that goes from common intuition to reliable knowledge is a fallacy called the ad populum fallacy. It's the fallacy that says because everyone believes disease is caused by demons, it cannot be caused by bacteria.

So let's talk about how falsehood can become popular despite being wrong.

Among people who are ignorant, scared and powerless, what is true matters less than how it makes them feel.
Let's take a peek...

Bronto, I skipped your next post because you didn't consolidate your replies. But if your reply were (as it normally is) opinion without evidence, I probably wouldn't have taken it seriously anyway.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,608
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5/22/2016 1:10:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 12:55:55 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:41:47 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:35:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:24:28 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:12:22 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/21/2016 10:36:06 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

The important words are"some kind of God". No one ever tries to define their perception of God other than what their holy book tells them.

Science knows that there is intelligence to the universe.

Would you care to support this statement?

You are part of the universe. You exhibit a degree of intelligence and are aware. The animals exhibit an innate intelligence as do vegetation.

So intelligence has evolved on one planet that we know of. How does this support the statement that "there is intelligence to the universe"?

The earth is part of the universe...so...yes there is intelligence to the universe.

Lol. Fallacy of composition.

The planets rotate around the sun. Stars are created and die. There is intelligence in all of this.

That is an assertion. You were asked to support your case that "science knows this".

Come on man. Go back to grade 3 and remember what they taught you about our solar system.

Where did they teach that the solar system was intelligently designed? Was there an intelligence behind having the Earth regularly bombarded with meteors and comets resulting in mass extinctions?

Even if you don't believe in these somewhat factual statements and think everything is random, something had to start off or spark everything.; an intelligence beyond our understanding.

Again an unsupported assertion about intelligent purpose. Where does science support this?

The Big Bang.

It's news to me that the Big Bang is the result of intelligent action. Please support this. How many times do I need to ask?

You only asked once. Obviously I can't say anything that will give you proof. What is it that you believe? Then I can ask you to prove it.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/22/2016 1:35:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 1:04:48 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:28:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/21/2016 9:05:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?
Jane I'm sure you know the reasoning that goes from common intuition to reliable knowledge is a fallacy called the ad populum fallacy. It's the fallacy that says because everyone believes disease is caused by demons, it cannot be caused by bacteria.

So let's talk about how falsehood can become popular despite being wrong.

Among people who are ignorant, scared and powerless, what is true matters less than how it makes them feel.
Let's take a peek...

Bronto, I skipped your next post because you didn't consolidate your replies. But if your reply were (as it normally is) opinion without evidence, I probably wouldn't have taken it seriously anyway.

Your favorite color must be...yellow.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/22/2016 1:40:23 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Is someone yellow...

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/22/2016 1:41:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 1:10:39 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:55:55 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:41:47 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:35:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:24:28 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:12:22 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/21/2016 10:36:06 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

The important words are"some kind of God". No one ever tries to define their perception of God other than what their holy book tells them.

Science knows that there is intelligence to the universe.

Would you care to support this statement?

You are part of the universe. You exhibit a degree of intelligence and are aware. The animals exhibit an innate intelligence as do vegetation.

So intelligence has evolved on one planet that we know of. How does this support the statement that "there is intelligence to the universe"?

The earth is part of the universe...so...yes there is intelligence to the universe.

Lol. Fallacy of composition.

The planets rotate around the sun. Stars are created and die. There is intelligence in all of this.

That is an assertion. You were asked to support your case that "science knows this".

Come on man. Go back to grade 3 and remember what they taught you about our solar system.

Where did they teach that the solar system was intelligently designed? Was there an intelligence behind having the Earth regularly bombarded with meteors and comets resulting in mass extinctions?

Even if you don't believe in these somewhat factual statements and think everything is random, something had to start off or spark everything.; an intelligence beyond our understanding.

Again an unsupported assertion about intelligent purpose. Where does science support this?

The Big Bang.

It's news to me that the Big Bang is the result of intelligent action. Please support this. How many times do I need to ask?

You only asked once. Obviously I can't say anything that will give you proof. What is it that you believe? Then I can ask you to prove it.

Let there be light
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/22/2016 1:45:14 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 1:35:57 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/22/2016 1:04:48 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:28:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/21/2016 9:05:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?
Jane I'm sure you know the reasoning that goes from common intuition to reliable knowledge is a fallacy called the ad populum fallacy. It's the fallacy that says because everyone believes disease is caused by demons, it cannot be caused by bacteria.

So let's talk about how falsehood can become popular despite being wrong.

Among people who are ignorant, scared and powerless, what is true matters less than how it makes them feel.
Let's take a peek...

Bronto, I skipped your next post because you didn't consolidate your replies. But if your reply were (as it normally is) opinion without evidence, I probably wouldn't have taken it seriously anyway.

Your favorite color must be...yellow.

No, if you want a discussion you need to meet minimum standards. I can tell you what they are if you want. I just don't believe you want to meet them, and believe you already know that you don't.

I also don't believe you really want to learn, or test the quality of your own thought. You prefer insulting and attention-seeking.

So... testing your views offers no benefit, while letting you explore and test mine is pointless. I mainly comment for the interest of other members.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/22/2016 3:14:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 12:30:50 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
From all phillosophical directions there is a mathematical singularity within infinity.

If infinity does not exist, we cannot exist. The idea of a finite time/space model suggests nothing had ever happened or ever existed, not time, not space, nothing, but magically it all simply came to be.

ME: Very philosophical, however can infinity exist without us? .

Within infinity we actually can exist in real life. But infinity has a unique quality. Within it is everything that is possible. There are infinite you's, me's, Earth's, United States, infinite everything. And there was no first you. You have always been in infinite number and infinitely in time. There is no last you. There simply are eternal you's, eternal everything.

ME: Huh!

And...there is the singularity. The most that is possible. The highest conceivable being. Within infinity this Being has never not existed. This Being is the highest singularity. This being is God, the undestroyable, highest conceivable, immortal, eternal, master of all things. Period.

The things working against atheism are:

1)Common sense
2)Math
3)Infinity
4)Desire or need for God to not exist
5)Denial
6)No desire to find God
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/22/2016 3:17:09 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

ME: Only 7 billion...One would think that the number would be much larger than that. To start with thee is 33,000 differing denominations of Christianity in the world, so who are the deluded?
janesix
Posts: 3,443
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5/22/2016 3:20:14 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 3:17:09 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

ME: Only 7 billion...One would think that the number would be much larger than that.
There are only 7 billion people in the world, so how can it be more than that?

To start with thee is 33,000 differing denominations of Christianity in the world, so who are the deluded?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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5/22/2016 4:10:55 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 3:17:09 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

ME: Only 7 billion...One would think that the number would be much larger than that. To start with thee is 33,000 differing denominations of Christianity in the world, so who are the deluded?

They all believe that all except their particular denomination are deluded, deceived and blind.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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5/22/2016 4:25:50 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

Interestingly, the world is filled with followers. The ones that are leaders are usually narcissistic or insane in extroversion. Or, am i just deluded to believe this? Idk... but, you know what... at this point, i would make some kind of gibberish up to get a private jet and yacht... maybe that is all it has ever been - money and b's ... i mean, it is the followers that make the leaders, leaders. And when the leaders feel like gods... they find ways to keep their position. I have had experiences that would make me think i am Jesus, maybe i should just go with it... forget my logic and reason... and, kindness to not manipulate, and make a religion... Hey, i would be saving some people right? There is always a way to justify my actions... I mean, we are both drunk right?
Logic_Not_Ignorance
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5/22/2016 4:33:41 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

That is just a weak argument.

Also, people are deluded quite easily. In case you haven't noticed, humans as a whole are idiots. Just look at some of the stuff that your own government says. People are, for the most part, easy to trick, as long as you have authority.
Logic_Not_Ignorance
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5/22/2016 4:42:41 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 12:24:28 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/22/2016 12:12:22 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/21/2016 10:36:06 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

The important words are"some kind of God". No one ever tries to define their perception of God other than what their holy book tells them.

Science knows that there is intelligence to the universe.

Would you care to support this statement?

You are part of the universe. You exhibit a degree of intelligence and are aware. The animals exhibit an innate intelligence as do vegetation. The planets rotate around the sun. Stars are created and die. There is intelligence in all of this. Even if you don't believe in these somewhat factual statements and think everything is random, something had to start off or spark everything.; an intelligence beyond our understanding.

Um, no. There is intelligence IN the universe (specifically, on Earth), but the universe itself is not intelligent. Stars, planets, galaxies. These are all inanimate objects. They do not think. They are not intelligent.

Everything that you claimed proved intelligence in the universe can be explained very simply by the laws of physics. To claim that everything in the universe is controlled by a God is just a ridiculous way of saying that you don't know how it really works. Why does my ball fall back down after I throw it up? I don't know, must be God.

Also, we kind of have theories about how the universe began, and they have nothing to do with God (cough, cough, Big Bang, cough). The only reason that we don't know more is because the Big Bang started as a singularity, where all laws of physics break down.
Logic_Not_Ignorance
Posts: 101
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5/22/2016 5:00:36 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
The things working against atheism are:

1)Common sense
2)Math
3)Infinity
4)Desire or need for God to not exist
5)Denial
6)No desire to find God

1) Atheism relies on common sense.
2) How exactly does math go against atheism?
3) Again, how?
4) I don't need God not to exist, God did that for me. :)
5) Seriously, you need to clarify.
6) This is true. I have no desire to find God. Just like I have no desire to find the Tooth Fairy, Santa, or my imaginary friend Kyle. Sorry, former imaginary friend. He tried to sleep with my imaginary girlfriend. You think you know a guy. How though, does this work against me?
janesix
Posts: 3,443
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5/22/2016 5:12:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 4:25:50 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

Interestingly, the world is filled with followers. The ones that are leaders are usually narcissistic or insane in extroversion. Or, am i just deluded to believe this? Idk... but, you know what... at this point, i would make some kind of gibberish up to get a private jet and yacht... maybe that is all it has ever been - money and b's ... i mean, it is the followers that make the leaders, leaders. And when the leaders feel like gods... they find ways to keep their position. I have had experiences that would make me think i am Jesus, maybe i should just go with it... forget my logic and reason... and, kindness to not manipulate, and make a religion... Hey, i would be saving some people right? There is always a way to justify my actions... I mean, we are both drunk right?

What experiences?

I don't drink.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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5/22/2016 5:52:02 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 5:12:57 AM, janesix wrote:
At 5/22/2016 4:25:50 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

Interestingly, the world is filled with followers. The ones that are leaders are usually narcissistic or insane in extroversion. Or, am i just deluded to believe this? Idk... but, you know what... at this point, i would make some kind of gibberish up to get a private jet and yacht... maybe that is all it has ever been - money and b's ... i mean, it is the followers that make the leaders, leaders. And when the leaders feel like gods... they find ways to keep their position. I have had experiences that would make me think i am Jesus, maybe i should just go with it... forget my logic and reason... and, kindness to not manipulate, and make a religion... Hey, i would be saving some people right? There is always a way to justify my actions... I mean, we are both drunk right?

What experiences?

I don't drink.

I was just trying to be feminist right there.... "guys that try to justify forcing a girl into ... i think you get it..." The reason i don't believe in anyone's god, is bc i don't trust humanity in that same regard. I see all the poisonous people around me craving selfish desire... And, we live in a time of better morality than the past for the most part... i see the past as just as disgusting. Of course people would get power from realizing transcendent things... The idea, however, interests me... but, not what is spewed from another... if another person can't respect that i have a personal "paradise" i want and know for myself... then, there is something wrong with the picture there. When did hope get hijacked by religion... or another group of gods? Is pretty much how i look at the delusion part.
I am my own god, i am my own universe, free to be what i want... but, not free to do anything i want... everything/place has rules; other than what happens in my own mind... even then, as Zoroastrians would say: Think good, be good to others, and yourself... i really think that is all it takes to have good morality. So... why can't i, if i follow those rules to the exact point, believe in whatever i want? In this case, making me my own god...

I have too many experiences to go over them all. Lets just say i look at things logically and try to reason, but i have some head scratching events. I have experiences i have heard things, seen things, made things happen, knew things before they happened, touched a sick friends head in a scenario it made it look as if i healed him from a dangerous event, ghost stuff... so on. I almost feel as if my life is unfolding with me one step ahead at times... then, i think... why haven't i won the lottery yet? Or, why can't i control these things? .... idk, and i tell atheist this... they are illusive, but wouldn't that make sense... if these "things" are higher beings (or my higher self) and doesn't want to be detected... wouldn't it be smart enough to not be detected? That is how i look at it at least... Plus, would i really want the lottery? Would i really want what i want now? For the most part, i don't want a lot of things i wanted 10 years ago now... did i know that then? Or now. I think the supernatural is a lot more complicated than just a "god did it" analogy.

So... i am on your side, some kind of god must exist or that i have a bias for bc of everything that has unfolded in my life so far, i just think that god is you. Define god as just dualism in my case. You are mortal and immortal. What this immortal self is ... well, i am still trying to figure out or try to imagine more.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/22/2016 6:23:56 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 3:20:14 AM, janesix wrote:
At 5/22/2016 3:17:09 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 5/21/2016 8:07:00 PM, janesix wrote:
Some kind of god must exist. How can nearly 7 billion people be deluded?

ME: Only 7 billion...One would think that the number would be much larger than that.
There are only 7 billion people in the world, so how can it be more than that?

To start with thee is 33,000 differing denominations of Christianity in the world, so who are the deluded?

ME: I apologies, I read it as 7 million, sorry.