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Unwilling to learn

Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
janesix
Posts: 3,437
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5/24/2016 4:56:18 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

Is this a test? Will it be graded?
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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5/24/2016 5:20:43 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

Well... every religion can't be right or can it? I think it can, without god, making my spiritual belief atheist. So, how do you know i am not right? I have thought out my belief for years and made an appropriate platform that not only benefits me, but others as well... So, i don't believe in religion bc i know i can create my own that makes more sense (at least to me). Why do i need anyone else's religion? Even though... like i said, all religion is right, without the idea of one omnipotent being however. I think that is a lazy thought, i think it is a thought that gives up trying to understand what god means... why? bc it is beyond us. Well, it isn't beyond my understanding, and from what i get... there is no god... as explained in most monotheistic religions.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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5/24/2016 5:27:10 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

Because if any religion had compelling, objective evidence for their deity existing it would surely have surfaced by now. Since it hasn't despite centuries, if not millennia, of opportunity for the major world religions, we can be quite confident that it never will.

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/24/2016 5:47:13 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?
1. Religious mythology has been well-surveyed by sociologists and anthropologists. The grander myths of religion draw from a pool of similar ideas, and those ideas have all been debunked.

2. Religions have had millennia to offer a sufficient number of significant, specific, independently-confirmed predictions to demonstrate the insights of their revelations. No religion has ever managed to satisfy independent evaluation that it knows more than any other.

3. Meanwhile, psychology and sociology have developed so far that we now have better explanations for religious beliefs than that they are true.

There is therefore no further reason to consider the question open.
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/24/2016 7:20:48 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:20:43 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

Well... every religion can't be right or can it? I think it can, without god, making my spiritual belief atheist. So, how do you know i am not right? I have thought out my belief for years and made an appropriate platform that not only benefits me, but others as well... So, i don't believe in religion bc i know i can create my own that makes more sense (at least to me). Why do i need anyone else's religion? Even though... like i said, all religion is right, without the idea of one omnipotent being however. I think that is a lazy thought, i think it is a thought that gives up trying to understand what god means... why? bc it is beyond us. Well, it isn't beyond my understanding, and from what i get... there is no god... as explained in most monotheistic religions.

You are saying - If the there are several theories to explain something, all are wrong.

YOU ARE CONFUSED.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/24/2016 7:24:56 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

Religions by and large worship gods, gods are simply the creation of man's imagination ergo religions have nothing real to offer.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/24/2016 7:29:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:47:13 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?
1. Religious mythology has been well-surveyed by sociologists and anthropologists. The grander myths of religion draw from a pool of similar ideas, and those ideas have all been debunked.

2. Religions have had millennia to offer a sufficient number of significant, specific, independently-confirmed predictions to demonstrate the insights of their revelations. No religion has ever managed to satisfy independent evaluation that it knows more than any other.

3. Meanwhile, psychology and sociology have developed so far that we now have better explanations for religious beliefs than that they are true.

There is therefore no further reason to consider the question open.

In the previous thread you said - if we damage brain, consciousness is gone. You concluded - consciousness is dependent upon brain to exist.

OK.

I will shoot you in your head and the whole world is gone. So according to you, the world is dependent upon brain to exist.

Agree. No? WHY NOT?
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
Bennett91
Posts: 4,194
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5/24/2016 7:33:52 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

Theists are 100% sure every religion but their own is false. What's the reason for their lack of belief?
Riwaaz_Ras
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5/24/2016 7:35:21 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:24:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

Religions by and large worship gods, gods are simply the creation of man's imagination ergo religions have nothing real to offer.

When someone worships God, there is a feeling of gratitude.

Gratitude is good for you, it may heal a man from otherwise incurable disease.

Atheists suffer from negativity,

THEY FEEL VOID.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
Bennett91
Posts: 4,194
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5/24/2016 7:41:51 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:35:21 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:24:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

Religions by and large worship gods, gods are simply the creation of man's imagination ergo religions have nothing real to offer.

When someone worships God, there is a feeling of gratitude.

Gratitude is good for you, it may heal a man from otherwise incurable disease.

There are other ways one can feel grateful without worshiping God. And even when one does get that feeling from worship it's not evidence for God, but the placebo effect because it doesn't matter what you worship you'll still feel grateful.

Atheists suffer from negativity,

Yea when we see Muslims commit jihad that's real positivity there!
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/24/2016 7:41:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:33:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

Theists are 100% sure every religion but their own is false. What's the reason for their lack of belief?

That's right. Atheism was supposed to be better, it was supposed to encourage curiosity. But now we are finding out that even someone as narrow minded as a religious guy is pron to question his faith. To seek the right answer.

But atheists.. they are damn sure.. it doesn't foster a curious mind.

Poor replacement for a religion.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/24/2016 7:49:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:41:51 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:35:21 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:24:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

Religions by and large worship gods, gods are simply the creation of man's imagination ergo religions have nothing real to offer.

When someone worships God, there is a feeling of gratitude.

Gratitude is good for you, it may heal a man from otherwise incurable disease.

There are other ways one can feel grateful without worshiping God. And even when one does get that feeling from worship it's not evidence for God, but the placebo effect because it doesn't matter what you worship you'll still feel grateful.

But how much? That's the question. There are other ways to feel grateful,, but are they anyhow better than complete devotion.

I ask you, what triggers gratitude?

Atheists suffer from negativity,

Yea when we see Muslims commit jihad that's real positivity there!

Like I said 'worse' as a replacement for something 'bad' .

The need to tag yourself, to relate yourself with others.. That's an instinct.

IT ALTERS YOUR PERCEPTION.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
Bennett91
Posts: 4,194
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5/24/2016 8:05:43 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:41:57 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:33:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

Theists are 100% sure every religion but their own is false. What's the reason for their lack of belief?

That's right. Atheism was supposed to be better, it was supposed to encourage curiosity. But now we are finding out that even someone as narrow minded as a religious guy is pron to question his faith. To seek the right answer.

This doesn't answer the question I asked you at all. Most theists adopt the religion of their parents, that's not questioning religion or seeking the right answer that's accepting what you've been told. When people genuinely question their faith they tend to lose it [http://www.scientificamerican.com...].

But atheists.. they are damn sure.. it doesn't foster a curious mind.

Are you familiar with agnosticism? I don't think you understand the atheist position at all and are simply satisfied with making sweeping generalizations unsupported by facts.

But how much? That's the question. There are other ways to feel grateful,, but are they anyhow better than complete devotion.

One can feel complete devotion to things other than God and get those same feelings. When you ask how much you're begging a question that can't be answered because you know there's no objective way to compare gratitude in people. How can you prove complete devotion to God provides more happiness than complete devotion to anything else? Furthermore you contradict yourself, how can you say even the most narrow minded of religious people question their faith yet experience the benefits of complete devotion?

I ask you, what triggers gratitude?

Kindness and relief from stress. But again the belief in God is not the only source of this, and even if one feels gratitude from worship that in no way proves God is the one altering your neurology to feel grateful.

The need to tag yourself, to relate yourself with others.. That's an instinct.

Your point being?

IT ALTERS YOUR PERCEPTION.

Yes, your perceptions have clearly been altered.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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5/24/2016 8:12:01 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:41:57 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
But atheists.. they are damn sure.. it doesn't foster a curious mind.

Poor replacement for a religion.
You have it backwards!

In view of the fact that there is NO proofs of the Supernatural (i.e. God(s)) then Atheism is currently the ONLY rational alternative!

My miind is always fascinated and still curious, how religious folk are prepared to submit themselves to ideologies that have NO proofs to support them, but instead appeal to intangibles like ' faith? '.
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/24/2016 8:15:58 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:05:43 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:41:57 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:33:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

Theists are 100% sure every religion but their own is false. What's the reason for their lack of belief?

That's right. Atheism was supposed to be better, it was supposed to encourage curiosity. But now we are finding out that even someone as narrow minded as a religious guy is pron to question his faith. To seek the right answer.

This doesn't answer the question I asked you at all. Most theists adopt the religion of their parents, that's not questioning religion or seeking the right answer

Then, why are you guys here?

that's accepting what you've been told. When people genuinely question their faith they tend to lose it [http://www.scientificamerican.com...].

But atheists.. they are damn sure.. it doesn't foster a curious mind.

Are you familiar with agnosticism? I don't think you understand the atheist position at all and are simply satisfied with making sweeping generalizations unsupported by facts.

But how much? That's the question. There are other ways to feel grateful,, but are they anyhow better than complete devotion.

One can feel complete devotion to things other than God

You seem to have a problem with god. Hindus worship the essence of everything, Shiva as their God. That's fine? Or you don't like these three words G, O and D.

and get those same feelings. When you ask how much you're begging a question that can't be answered because you know there's no objective way to compare gratitude in people. How can you prove complete devotion to God provides more happiness than complete devotion to anything else? Furthermore you contradict yourself, how can you say even the most narrow minded of religious people question their faith yet experience the benefits of complete devotion?

I ask you, what triggers gratitude?

Kindness and relief from stress. But again the belief in God is not the only source of this, and even if one feels gratitude from worship that in no way proves God is the one altering your neurology to feel grateful.

The need to tag yourself, to relate yourself with others.. That's an instinct.

Your point being?

IT ALTERS YOUR PERCEPTION.

Yes, your perceptions have clearly been altered.

Damn sure. A perception must be altered to perceive something.. or you can't perceive at all.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
Bennett91
Posts: 4,194
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5/24/2016 8:27:55 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:15:58 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:05:43 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:41:57 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:33:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

Theists are 100% sure every religion but their own is false. What's the reason for their lack of belief?

That's right. Atheism was supposed to be better, it was supposed to encourage curiosity. But now we are finding out that even someone as narrow minded as a religious guy is pron to question his faith. To seek the right answer.

This doesn't answer the question I asked you at all. Most theists adopt the religion of their parents, that's not questioning religion or seeking the right answer

Then, why are you guys here?

As I said, *most*. My parents were not particularly religious and I only went to Church a couple of times, so I was never as heavily indoctrinated as those growing up in devout homes. Combine that with adesire for actual thinking skills, not just accepting stories of angelss demons, and jinn as real despite having no credible evidence of such.

One can feel complete devotion to things other than God

You seem to have a problem with god. Hindus worship the essence of everything, Shiva as their God. That's fine? Or you don't like these three words G, O and D.

Those are letters, not words. My problem isn't with a fictional tale of divinity, my problem is with the people who believe these tales then force them on others. Religious laws like the ones Christians try to impose and Sharia are perfect examples of the ignorance and false morality that theists push on others.

Yes, your perceptions have clearly been altered.

Damn sure. A perception must be altered to perceive something.. or you can't perceive at all.

Altered perceptions from reality is your argument? By this logic if I do drugs any hallucination is real because I altered my perception to see it, and anyone else not on drugs is wrong because they aren't on drugs either.

Also you've ignored most of what I've written; what was the point of bringing up gratitude just to drop it? What about the gratitude people feel from worshiping different Gods? Is that because you're lazy or just not curious?
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/24/2016 9:19:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:27:55 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:15:58 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:05:43 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:41:57 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:33:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

Theists are 100% sure every religion but their own is false. What's the reason for their lack of belief?

That's right. Atheism was supposed to be better, it was supposed to encourage curiosity. But now we are finding out that even someone as narrow minded as a religious guy is pron to question his faith. To seek the right answer.

This doesn't answer the question I asked you at all. Most theists adopt the religion of their parents, that's not questioning religion or seeking the right answer

Then, why are you guys here?

As I said, *most*. My parents were not particularly religious and I only went to Church a couple of times, so I was never as heavily indoctrinated as those growing up in devout homes. Combine that with adesire for actual thinking skills, not just accepting stories of angelss demons, and jinn as real despite having no credible evidence of such.

One can feel complete devotion to things other than God

You seem to have a problem with god. Hindus worship the essence of everything, Shiva as their God. That's fine? Or you don't like these three words G, O and D.

Those are letters, not words. My problem isn't with a fictional tale of divinity, my problem is with the people who believe these tales then force them on others. Religious laws like the ones Christians try to impose and Sharia are perfect examples of the ignorance and false morality that theists push on others.

Yes, your perceptions have clearly been altered.

Damn sure. A perception must be altered to perceive something.. or you can't perceive at all.

Altered perceptions from reality is your argument? By this logic if I do drugs any hallucination is real because I altered my perception to see it, and anyone else not on drugs is wrong because they aren't on drugs either.

You can't recognize faces by looking at a film negative, that doesn't mean you are drugged.

Also you've ignored most of what I've written; what was the point of bringing up gratitude just to drop it? What about the gratitude people feel from worshiping different Gods? Is that because you're lazy or just not curious?

I don't argue for the sake of argument.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
someloser
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5/24/2016 9:21:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false.
No

After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .
No

[Disclaimer: I am not an atheist]
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Bennett91
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5/24/2016 9:24:06 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 9:19:57 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:

Altered perceptions from reality is your argument? By this logic if I do drugs any hallucination is real because I altered my perception to see it, and anyone else not on drugs is wrong because they aren't on drugs either.

You can't recognize faces by looking at a film negative, that doesn't mean you are drugged.

Completely missed the point. How do you confirm who is looking at the negative and who is looking at the real thing?

Also you've ignored most of what I've written; what was the point of bringing up gratitude just to drop it? What about the gratitude people feel from worshiping different Gods? Is that because you're lazy or just not curious?

I don't argue for the sake of argument.

Yet you've started 3 threads in the last 2 hours trying to bash on atheists. It seems you'll only argue if you think you have an advantage. You think atheists are narrow minded? Your retreat is a perfect example of your hypocrisy.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/24/2016 9:28:06 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:29:54 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:47:13 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?
1. Religious mythology has been well-surveyed by sociologists and anthropologists. The grander myths of religion draw from a pool of similar ideas, and those ideas have all been debunked.

2. Religions have had millennia to offer a sufficient number of significant, specific, independently-confirmed predictions to demonstrate the insights of their revelations. No religion has ever managed to satisfy independent evaluation that it knows more than any other.

3. Meanwhile, psychology and sociology have developed so far that we now have better explanations for religious beliefs than that they are true.

There is therefore no further reason to consider the question open.

In the previous thread you said - if we damage brain, consciousness is gone. You concluded - consciousness is dependent upon brain to exist.
Yes, that's correct.

According to you, the world is dependent upon brain to exist. Agree.
No.

WHY NOT?
We know that matter and energy persist between observations. Moreover, this persistence is so strong that it can refute what we expect to see. Here's a simple experiment you can try.

Pour one hundred or so marbles into a big football sock, but don't tell your friend how many you put in. Write down the number on a folded slip of paper. Now, get your friend to take a random number of marbles out of the sock, put them in a bowl and hide the bowl from you. Have your friend write down how many he took out, on a folded slip of paper.

Now you know how many marbles there were, but not how many were put in the bowl. Your friend knows how many marbles he put into the bowl, but not how many were first put in the sock. So neither you nor your friend know how many marbles are now in the sock. If you guess how many there are, you'll probably both guess wrong.

Yet when you count the marbles in the sock, and add them to the marbles in the bowl, the count will be the number you first put in. Yet who knew the number in the sock?

Ergo, matter persists between observations, and is more real than individual subjectivity.
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/24/2016 9:38:46 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 9:28:06 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:29:54 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:47:13 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?
1. Religious mythology has been well-surveyed by sociologists and anthropologists. The grander myths of religion draw from a pool of similar ideas, and those ideas have all been debunked.

2. Religions have had millennia to offer a sufficient number of significant, specific, independently-confirmed predictions to demonstrate the insights of their revelations. No religion has ever managed to satisfy independent evaluation that it knows more than any other.

3. Meanwhile, psychology and sociology have developed so far that we now have better explanations for religious beliefs than that they are true.

There is therefore no further reason to consider the question open.

In the previous thread you said - if we damage brain, consciousness is gone. You concluded - consciousness is dependent upon brain to exist.
Yes, that's correct.

According to you, the world is dependent upon brain to exist. Agree.
No.

WHY NOT?
We know that matter and energy persist between observations. Moreover, this persistence is so strong that it can refute what we expect to see. Here's a simple experiment you can try.

Pour one hundred or so marbles into a big football sock, but don't tell your friend how many you put in. Write down the number on a folded slip of paper. Now, get your friend to take a random number of marbles out of the sock, put them in a bowl and hide the bowl from you. Have your friend write down how many he took out, on a folded slip of paper.

Now you know how many marbles there were, but not how many were put in the bowl. Your friend knows how many marbles he put into the bowl, but not how many were first put in the sock. So neither you nor your friend know how many marbles are now in the sock. If you guess how many there are, you'll probably both guess wrong.

Yet when you count the marbles in the sock, and add them to the marbles in the bowl, the count will be the number you first put in. Yet who knew the number in the sock?

Ergo, matter persists between observations, and is more real than individual subjectivity.

You couldn't do this experiment with consciousness and planet earth, could you?
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
Riwaaz_Ras
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5/24/2016 9:47:10 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 9:24:06 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 9:19:57 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:

Altered perceptions from reality is your argument? By this logic if I do drugs any hallucination is real because I altered my perception to see it, and anyone else not on drugs is wrong because they aren't on drugs either.

You can't recognize faces by looking at a film negative, that doesn't mean you are drugged.

Completely missed the point. How do you confirm who is looking at the negative and who is looking at the real thing?

Exactly. I want to ask you, just because see it as such, does that qualify it to be tagged real. Of course not.

Also you've ignored most of what I've written; what was the point of bringing up gratitude just to drop it? What about the gratitude people feel from worshiping different Gods? Is that because you're lazy or just not curious?

I don't argue for the sake of argument.

Yet you've started 3 threads in the last 2 hours trying to bash on atheists. It seems you'll only argue if you think you have an advantage.

I have not even started arguing.

You are an atheist.

You don't know about each and everything related to each and every religion.

Why don't you aspire to learn more?

You think atheists are narrow minded? Your retreat is a perfect example of your hypocrisy.

like I care.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/24/2016 9:51:25 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 9:38:46 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 9:28:06 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:29:54 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:47:13 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?
1. Religious mythology has been well-surveyed by sociologists and anthropologists. The grander myths of religion draw from a pool of similar ideas, and those ideas have all been debunked.

2. Religions have had millennia to offer a sufficient number of significant, specific, independently-confirmed predictions to demonstrate the insights of their revelations. No religion has ever managed to satisfy independent evaluation that it knows more than any other.

3. Meanwhile, psychology and sociology have developed so far that we now have better explanations for religious beliefs than that they are true.

There is therefore no further reason to consider the question open.

In the previous thread you said - if we damage brain, consciousness is gone. You concluded - consciousness is dependent upon brain to exist.
Yes, that's correct.

According to you, the world is dependent upon brain to exist. Agree.
No.

WHY NOT?
We know that matter and energy persist between observations. Moreover, this persistence is so strong that it can refute what we expect to see. Here's a simple experiment you can try.

Pour one hundred or so marbles into a big football sock, but don't tell your friend how many you put in. Write down the number on a folded slip of paper. Now, get your friend to take a random number of marbles out of the sock, put them in a bowl and hide the bowl from you. Have your friend write down how many he took out, on a folded slip of paper.

Now you know how many marbles there were, but not how many were put in the bowl. Your friend knows how many marbles he put into the bowl, but not how many were first put in the sock. So neither you nor your friend know how many marbles are now in the sock. If you guess how many there are, you'll probably both guess wrong.

Yet when you count the marbles in the sock, and add them to the marbles in the bowl, the count will be the number you first put in. Yet who knew the number in the sock?

Ergo, matter persists between observations, and is more real than individual subjectivity.

You couldn't do this experiment with consciousness and planet earth, could you?
Since you haven't contested my methods or results, I understand you to have conceded that this experiment is effective at testing the persistence of matter independently of mind (and incidentally also confirms the existence of other minds that know things we don't.)

So now let's talk about the Earth.

Most of the Earth's matter that affects us, cannot be directly observed at all. Earth's gravity gives it a mass of about 6 * 10 ^ 24kg, excluding the moon. Yet only about 2% of that mass lies in the earth's crust, which extends down for 100km, and is pretty much all we've ever directly observed. So 98% of the Earth's mass exists independently of direct observation, yet it produces consistent gravity. We can treat the remaining 2% piecewise, like the marbles.

So yes, we can. :)
Bennett91
Posts: 4,194
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5/24/2016 9:52:04 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 9:47:10 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 9:24:06 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 9:19:57 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:

Altered perceptions from reality is your argument? By this logic if I do drugs any hallucination is real because I altered my perception to see it, and anyone else not on drugs is wrong because they aren't on drugs either.

You can't recognize faces by looking at a film negative, that doesn't mean you are drugged.

Completely missed the point. How do you confirm who is looking at the negative and who is looking at the real thing?

Exactly. I want to ask you, just because see it as such, does that qualify it to be tagged real. Of course not.

The same applies to you. But I'm not the one making claims beyond the realm of scientific confirmation.

Also you've ignored most of what I've written; what was the point of bringing up gratitude just to drop it? What about the gratitude people feel from worshiping different Gods? Is that because you're lazy or just not curious?

I don't argue for the sake of argument.

Yet you've started 3 threads in the last 2 hours trying to bash on atheists. It seems you'll only argue if you think you have an advantage.

I have not even started arguing.

You are an atheist.

You don't know about each and everything related to each and every religion.

As I said in my very first comment, you also are unaware of each and every religion, yet i imagine you prescribe to a specific religious doctrine. How can you when you don't know every religion?

Why don't you aspire to learn more?

Why don't you? You're clearly very ignorant about atheists.

You think atheists are narrow minded? Your retreat is a perfect example of your hypocrisy.

like I care.

You don't care you're a hypocrite? Real mark of an intellectual right here!
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/24/2016 9:53:22 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:41:57 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:33:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

Theists are 100% sure every religion but their own is false. What's the reason for their lack of belief?

That's right. Atheism was supposed to be better, it was supposed to encourage curiosity. But now we are finding out that even someone as narrow minded as a religious guy is pron to question his faith. To seek the right answer.
Atheism is the rejection of the man made claim that gods exist, can't you dunderheads ever understand that very simple definition.
Atheism was never supposed to do anything other than reject your unsubstantiated claim.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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5/25/2016 1:48:31 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:20:48 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:20:43 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

Well... every religion can't be right or can it? I think it can, without god, making my spiritual belief atheist. So, how do you know i am not right? I have thought out my belief for years and made an appropriate platform that not only benefits me, but others as well... So, i don't believe in religion bc i know i can create my own that makes more sense (at least to me). Why do i need anyone else's religion? Even though... like i said, all religion is right, without the idea of one omnipotent being however. I think that is a lazy thought, i think it is a thought that gives up trying to understand what god means... why? bc it is beyond us. Well, it isn't beyond my understanding, and from what i get... there is no god... as explained in most monotheistic religions.

You are saying - If the there are several theories to explain something, all are wrong.

YOU ARE CONFUSED.

No, that is not what i am saying. Confused? Who isn't - just like you were for a second reading what i wrote. I have a strong belief and platform to that belief. It is actually the opposite of what you just said... I think every "religion" is right. Of course, not right in the wording since most would contradict each other, right in its "spiritual" values. You can ask on if you wish me to define what i mean more, but some elements to my belief are that i think spirituality is "atheist" in ways. This "way," i believe was created by what 'theists' call god. So, as you can see, i believe in the idea of a god; however, i believe this god evolved. Making it the most primitive and the most advanced being, though, separate to its other creations. Its other creations are also separate to their creations. It is hard to put 10 years of thought into one paragraph, but to sum up what i believe is true: Whatever you know to be true. You are a separate being to me. We do not have the same "paradise," we may not even have the same god, but what we have in common is picking our path. I pick a path of "good" (for the most part) and i hope you do to. And yes, i believe there is a god... but, i also believe we have free will in our "immortality." Making us all gods to our specific capacities. Don't misconstrue how i use the word "god" however. Some could be gods of nothingness and so on; i believe there is as much division in the "afterlife" as there is here. This design i believe was done by the original "source" (god) as it started to "create" (imagine) sociability. If you were this god, or just try to imagine, would you at this point of your creation want everything to be a figment of your imagination, or would you rather have many "imaginations"? I think it would be quite "lonely" to be the god of some religions. Therefore, i think i understand "god" at a different level - a more empathetic level. (Basically everything i quoted can be debated, can have more than one meaning and i agree can have subjectivity to it, but i believe they exist in some capacity).
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,083
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5/25/2016 4:57:53 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

The ones I know are obviously false. I pragmatically consider the rest to be flawed as well. Although, I am open to evidence to the contrary. Bring it.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Looncall
Posts: 438
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5/25/2016 7:50:13 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

I do not believe that pigs can fly. What I know of physics and biology shows that flying pigs are not what one can reasonably expect. If you show me a flying pig, I will revise my opinion.

My rejection of religion works in the same way. Until I encounter good reason to accept religion, I will carry on with the provisional opinion that religions are false, since they run counter to how we know reality works.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
tarantula
Posts: 847
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5/25/2016 10:19:53 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 4:52:26 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Atheism are 100% sure that all religions are false. After all, that's the reason for their 'lack of belief' .

My question is

_________________how do you know every religion is false, without knowledge of them?

_________________overconfidence?
_________________lack of curiosity?

Until there is verifiable evidence to prove religions have any credibility the default position must be unbelief.