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There is nothing supernatural

dee-em
Posts: 6,482
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5/24/2016 5:29:04 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:22:27 AM, janesix wrote:
Everything is natural. Even god has to follow the laws of nature.

Then whence come the laws of nature?
janesix
Posts: 3,477
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5/24/2016 5:33:00 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:29:04 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:22:27 AM, janesix wrote:
Everything is natural. Even god has to follow the laws of nature.

Then whence come the laws of nature?

They are the only laws possible. Can you have a four sided triangle? Everything is as it has to be.
dee-em
Posts: 6,482
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5/24/2016 5:41:10 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:33:00 AM, janesix wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:29:04 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:22:27 AM, janesix wrote:
Everything is natural. Even god has to follow the laws of nature.

Then whence come the laws of nature?

They are the only laws possible. Can you have a four sided triangle? Everything is as it has to be.

Your example is not a law of nature, only a mathematical definition. Gravity is a law of nature. Where did gravity come from and what makes it essential, not to our universe but to any possible universe?

Your problem is that god is usually defined as the first cause, the thing from which everything else is sourced. As soon as you make him (it) contingent on something then he is no longer god. Another problem is that he would also his omnipotence since he could not defy the laws of nature, being subject to them. Again, you are not talking about god then.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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5/24/2016 5:55:05 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:22:27 AM, janesix wrote:
Everything is natural. Even god has to follow the laws of nature.

Yet when I asked how many invisible people with supernatural powers you found, you said three. If you believe there is nothing supernatural, you obviously did NOT find three invisible people with supernatural powers.
You lied to me.
janesix
Posts: 3,477
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5/24/2016 5:58:20 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:55:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:22:27 AM, janesix wrote:
Everything is natural. Even god has to follow the laws of nature.

Yet when I asked how many invisible people with supernatural powers you found, you said three. If you believe there is nothing supernatural, you obviously did NOT find three invisible people with supernatural powers.
You lied to me.

I took it as meaning god like powers. Big deal.
janesix
Posts: 3,477
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5/24/2016 6:02:16 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:41:10 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:33:00 AM, janesix wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:29:04 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:22:27 AM, janesix wrote:
Everything is natural. Even god has to follow the laws of nature.

Then whence come the laws of nature?

They are the only laws possible. Can you have a four sided triangle? Everything is as it has to be.

Your example is not a law of nature, only a mathematical definition. Gravity is a law of nature. Where did gravity come from and what makes it essential, not to our universe but to any possible universe?

Your problem is that god is usually defined as the first cause, the thing from which everything else is sourced. As soon as you make him (it) contingent on something then he is no longer god. Another problem is that he would also his omnipotence since he could not defy the laws of nature, being subject to them. Again, you are not talking about god then.

Maybe youre right. It just seems to me that things are the way they have to be. How could things work if they were any different?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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5/24/2016 6:16:53 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:58:20 AM, janesix wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:55:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:22:27 AM, janesix wrote:
Everything is natural. Even god has to follow the laws of nature.

Yet when I asked how many invisible people with supernatural powers you found, you said three. If you believe there is nothing supernatural, you obviously did NOT find three invisible people with supernatural powers.
You lied to me.

I took it as meaning god like powers. Big deal.

If you define the word "supernatural" as "god like", then according to you there is nothing "god like" (supernatural).
dee-em
Posts: 6,482
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5/24/2016 11:15:00 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 6:02:16 AM, janesix wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:41:10 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:33:00 AM, janesix wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:29:04 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/24/2016 5:22:27 AM, janesix wrote:
Everything is natural. Even god has to follow the laws of nature.

Then whence come the laws of nature?

They are the only laws possible. Can you have a four sided triangle? Everything is as it has to be.

Your example is not a law of nature, only a mathematical definition. Gravity is a law of nature. Where did gravity come from and what makes it essential, not to our universe but to any possible universe?

Your problem is that god is usually defined as the first cause, the thing from which everything else is sourced. As soon as you make him (it) contingent on something then he is no longer god. Another problem is that he would also his omnipotence since he could not defy the laws of nature, being subject to them. Again, you are not talking about god then.

Maybe youre right. It just seems to me that things are the way they have to be. How could things work if they were any different?

For this universe they couldn't be much different, I agree. My point is that it doesn't rule out other possible universes with different laws but which might still be viable in terms of producing some kind of life. Don't ask me to identity such an alternative universe though. My imagination is not that good. If the multiverse hypothesis has any validity then there are possibly an infinite number of parallel universes and no requirement for them to obey the same set of natural laws as ours.
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/24/2016 2:11:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 5:22:27 AM, janesix wrote:
Everything is natural. Even god has to follow the laws of nature.

Laws of nature apply on the 'all powerful' ?
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
BPDas
Posts: 1
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5/24/2016 4:44:34 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Sir,without knowing the definition and difference between nature and super nature nothing may be concluded.only a pious and pure one may at point who believes in human religion