Total Posts:48|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

is Isaiah 9:6 a mistranslarion?

Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise. one example is: http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org... summary:
1. A better translation to the verse in question might be:
...and his name will be called, 'A wonderful counselor is the mighty Gd, an everlasting father is the ruler of peace.'

2. Prince of Peace'
First of all, this is a mistranslation. The words in the original Hebrew are, 'sar shalom.' The word 'sar' does not mean 'prince,' it means 'ruler.' you can read the whole article of you want.

now, one more source I found translates it in a different way. in it, it says "counsellor mighty god will call him prince of peace". quote:

For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."
end quote. http://m.chabad.org...

somewhere I read a native speaker of Hebrew who lives in israel wrote that in hebrew it says "christians mistranslate it. in hebrew that book says "mighty god will call him ruler of peace. it does not say he will be called mighty god, prince of peace" but I cant find it now.

if there is native speakers of hebrew please discuss here. let christians know the truth and they shall ignore the truth as they always do. if you speak hebrew join discussion please. it would be better if Emilrose is here.

btw, whatever the true translation is, Jesus is never related to the verse. the verse talks about on whom rests the government which is something jesus was never able to have.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2016 10:51:28 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
mistranslation* I wanted to mean. if you have detailed, good, reliable rebuttal for either side, share please.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2016 11:38:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:

btw, whatever the true translation is, Jesus is never related to the verse. the verse talks about on whom rests the government which is something jesus was never able to have.

The earthly Davidic kingdom was a imperfect prefigurement of the everlasting kingdom of God. Thus, if this title applied to the kings of Israel, how much more perfectly does it apply to Jesus?
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2016 11:47:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 11:38:32 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:

btw, whatever the true translation is, Jesus is never related to the verse. the verse talks about on whom rests the government which is something jesus was never able to have.

The earthly Davidic kingdom was a imperfect prefigurement of the everlasting kingdom of God. Thus, if this title applied to the kings of Israel, how much more perfectly does it apply to Jesus?
in no way.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 6:20:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Any piece of the bible that anyone, or any cult or sect, disagrees with can always be defined as a mis-translation.
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 8:56:04 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 6:20:39 AM, desmac wrote:
Any piece of the bible that anyone, or any cult or sect, disagrees with can always be defined as a mis-translation.
but that can be refuted easily if that is not a mistranslation. so, the problem now is:

a christian side will provide something for their case and opposing side will provide. we cant know which is true since we do not know hebrew
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 8:59:15 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 8:56:04 AM, Artur wrote:
At 5/25/2016 6:20:39 AM, desmac wrote:
Any piece of the bible that anyone, or any cult or sect, disagrees with can always be defined as a mis-translation.
but that can be refuted easily if that is not a mistranslation. so, the problem now is:

a christian side will provide something for their case and opposing side will provide. we cant know which is true since we do not know hebrew

As there are no source originals of any of the alleged bible writings, how can you be sure that anything has not been mistranslated or mistranscribed?
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 9:07:50 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 8:59:15 AM, desmac wrote:
At 5/25/2016 8:56:04 AM, Artur wrote:
At 5/25/2016 6:20:39 AM, desmac wrote:
Any piece of the bible that anyone, or any cult or sect, disagrees with can always be defined as a mis-translation.
but that can be refuted easily if that is not a mistranslation. so, the problem now is:

a christian side will provide something for their case and opposing side will provide. we cant know which is true since we do not know hebrew

As there are no source originals of any of the alleged bible writings, how can you be sure that anything has not been mistranslated or mistranscribed?
regarding this, you are right. we cant be sure.
but what I am talking about is accepted, canonised current bible of the judaists and christians.

what is it told in hebrew in isaiah 9:6 of modern bible?
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 2:11:35 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise. one example is: http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org... summary:
1. A better translation to the verse in question might be:
...and his name will be called, 'A wonderful counselor is the mighty Gd, an everlasting father is the ruler of peace.'

2. Prince of Peace'
First of all, this is a mistranslation. The words in the original Hebrew are, 'sar shalom.' The word 'sar' does not mean 'prince,' it means 'ruler.' you can read the whole article of you want.

now, one more source I found translates it in a different way. in it, it says "counsellor mighty god will call him prince of peace". quote:


For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."
end quote. http://m.chabad.org...

somewhere I read a native speaker of Hebrew who lives in israel wrote that in hebrew it says "christians mistranslate it. in hebrew that book says "mighty god will call him ruler of peace. it does not say he will be called mighty god, prince of peace" but I cant find it now.

if there is native speakers of hebrew please discuss here. let christians know the truth and they shall ignore the truth as they always do. if you speak hebrew join discussion please. it would be better if Emilrose is here.

btw, whatever the true translation is, Jesus is never related to the verse. the verse talks about on whom rests the government which is something jesus was never able to have.

In fact Christ does indeed have the Government, and is finalising the arrangements for it to take over the rule of the earth as we debate on here.

However in the sense of what will eventually happen "Prince of peace" is more accurate, because there will not be true peace on this earth until after the final test, and that is also when he hands the Kingdom back to his father and becomes a Prince rather than the King of his father's Kingdom, a position he held in his pre-human life also.

However would not be surprised to find it has been mistranslated, much in scripture has been, and most of it deliberately to confuse the difference between God and Christ.

To be fair though Ancient Hebrew is not an easy language to "pin down" into English because it deal more with the sense of things that with actual statements.

Hence, for instance the name of the true God translates into English variously as "I shall prove to be" or " shall become" or phrases of similar sense.

And yes I do understand that the English translation of his name is only a best guess at the vowel structure. Nor is it the Hebrew language version which is either Yahweh or Yehowah. But then many different languages have their own transliteration of the tetragrammaton and hence their own language version of the name.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 2:20:47 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 2:11:35 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

And yes I do understand that the English translation of his name is only a best guess at the vowel structure. Nor is it the Hebrew language version which is either Yahweh or Yehowah. But then many different languages have their own transliteration of the tetragrammaton and hence their own language version of the name.
Isn't it amazing that in all the claims of prophesy from the 1870's until the 1950's, with a few exceptions, the hoovians never use the name jehovah.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 3:40:12 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
In fact Christ does indeed have the Government
no, he does not.
and is finalising the arrangements for it to take over the rule of the earth as we debate on here.
my donkey is finalising the arrangements to ejaculate on his face as you wish him to come
However in the sense of what will eventually happen "Prince of peace" is more accurate,
according to whay?
because there will not be true peace on this earth until after the final test, and that is also when he hands the Kingdom back to his father and becomes a Prince rather than the King of his father's Kingdom, a position he held in his pre-human life also.
translations are not checked according to "what Madcornishbiker thinks". all the random letters you typed here are not related to the topic.

However would not be surprised to find it has been mistranslated, much in scripture has been, and most of it deliberately to confuse the difference between God and Christ.
congrats for being honesy.
To be fair though Ancient Hebrew is not an easy language to "pin down" into English because it deal more with the sense of things that with actual statements.

Hence, for instance the name of the true God translates into English variously as "I shall prove to be" or " shall become" or phrases of similar sense.

And yes I do understand that the English translation of his name is only a best guess at the vowel structure. Nor is it the Hebrew language version which is either Yahweh or Yehowah. But then many different languages have their own transliteration of the tetragrammaton and hence their own language version of the name.
offtopic. please, stop offtopics.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Rukado
Posts: 527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 3:42:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise.

Who cares what the children of the Devil say, those you're calling Jews. They're liars that hate the Christ of God. There are no native speakers of biblical Hebrew today.

If you want to know what a word in the Old Testament means (beyond a good English translation), look at how that word is used in other places in the Old Testament. Another option is to look at how real native Hebrew speakers translated it. That means, look at how the verse is translated in the Septuagint or look in the New Testament if that verse was quoted by a New Testament writer. (Going to the New Testament or Septuagint leaves you needing to translate the Greek into English.)

"Sar" appears to be mean both ruler and prince. It's used in the Bible several hundred times, including many times in reference to people who were princes. "Prince" is a fair translation.

Jesus has a government because he has a kingdom.
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 3:52:50 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 3:42:41 PM, Rukado wrote:
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise.

Who cares what the children of the Devil say, those you're calling Jews. They're liars that hate the Christ of God. There are no native speakers of biblical Hebrew today.

If you want to know what a word in the Old Testament means (beyond a good English translation), look at how that word is used in other places in the Old Testament.
for ex? how can I know where and how thay hebrew word is used in OT when i do not know hebrew? or whatever that language is.
Another option is to look at how real native Hebrew speakers translated it. That means, look at how the verse is translated in the Septuagint
I do not know who translated septuagint. and why did they translate, what did they translate for? if you can look at septuagint, just quote.
or look in the New Testament if that verse was quoted by a New Testament writer.
why? NT is in no way a reliable source in any case.
(Going to the New Testament or Septuagint leaves you needing to translate the Greek into English.)
from greek? why should I check grammatical thing with a septuagint?? it depends on grammar, vocabulary of a languae. not on a book with umknown author
"Sar" appears to be mean both ruler and prince.
can you quote it from dicionary? which hebrew dictionary says it has that 2 meanings?
It's used in the Bible several hundred times, including many times in reference to people who were princes.
being used in a book does not prove anything. if I write a book translating that verse as a donkey does it men the word sar" means "prince, ruler and a donkey?"
"Prince" is a fair translation.
deducing from bible?
Jesus has a government because he has a kingdom.
may be he was the governor of his bed of course if he had a bed
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 3:53:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 3:42:41 PM, Rukado wrote:
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise.

Who cares what the children of the Devil say, those you're calling Jews. They're liars that hate the Christ of God. There are no native speakers of biblical Hebrew today.

If you want to know what a word in the Old Testament means (beyond a good English translation), look at how that word is used in other places in the Old Testament. Another option is to look at how real native Hebrew speakers translated it. That means, look at how the verse is translated in the Septuagint or look in the New Testament if that verse was quoted by a New Testament writer. (Going to the New Testament or Septuagint leaves you needing to translate the Greek into English.)

"Sar" appears to be mean both ruler and prince. It's used in the Bible several hundred times, including many times in reference to people who were princes. "Prince" is a fair translation.

Jesus has a government because he has a kingdom.

Oh yeah? Where's that then?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 3:58:55 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 3:53:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/25/2016 3:42:41 PM, Rukado wrote:
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise.

Who cares what the children of the Devil say, those you're calling Jews. They're liars that hate the Christ of God. There are no native speakers of biblical Hebrew today.

If you want to know what a word in the Old Testament means (beyond a good English translation), look at how that word is used in other places in the Old Testament. Another option is to look at how real native Hebrew speakers translated it. That means, look at how the verse is translated in the Septuagint or look in the New Testament if that verse was quoted by a New Testament writer. (Going to the New Testament or Septuagint leaves you needing to translate the Greek into English.)

"Sar" appears to be mean both ruler and prince. It's used in the Bible several hundred times, including many times in reference to people who were princes. "Prince" is a fair translation.

Jesus has a government because he has a kingdom.

Oh yeah? Where's that then?
may be Atlantis.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
v3nesl
Posts: 4,463
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 4:01:17 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise.

Two thoughts:
1) It always important to try interpretations in the larger context. You can't just look at "he shall be called", you must look at the overall point the author was making.
2) A prophecy is likely to have two meanings - one that works in an immediate context, with another deeper meaning intended. The idea of the Messiah as "Son of David" is a good example. Messiah would literally be a descendant of David, yet David prophetically calls him "Lord". Another way of saying this is that God seems to like "living parables", where spiritual truths are not only illustrated in word, but in some physical occurrence(s).

And the author you linked to has missed a major Christian interpretation of this name: This name encompasses the trinity. The Holy Spirit is referred to as the counselor, the father is obviously The Father, and the man Jesus will be the Ruler of Peace. That correlation is pretty striking when you consider that Isaiah would not have had a concept of the trinity. As the apostle Paul put it "In him [in Jesus] all the fullness of the godhead was pleased to dwell"
This space for rent.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 4:03:44 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 3:58:55 PM, Artur wrote:
At 5/25/2016 3:53:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/25/2016 3:42:41 PM, Rukado wrote:
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise.

Who cares what the children of the Devil say, those you're calling Jews. They're liars that hate the Christ of God. There are no native speakers of biblical Hebrew today.

If you want to know what a word in the Old Testament means (beyond a good English translation), look at how that word is used in other places in the Old Testament. Another option is to look at how real native Hebrew speakers translated it. That means, look at how the verse is translated in the Septuagint or look in the New Testament if that verse was quoted by a New Testament writer. (Going to the New Testament or Septuagint leaves you needing to translate the Greek into English.)

"Sar" appears to be mean both ruler and prince. It's used in the Bible several hundred times, including many times in reference to people who were princes. "Prince" is a fair translation.

Jesus has a government because he has a kingdom.

Oh yeah? Where's that then?
may be Atlantis.
Ahh that cunning devil.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 4:13:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 4:01:17 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise.

Two thoughts:
1) It always important to try interpretations in the larger context. You can't just look at "he shall be called", you must look at the overall point the author was making.
2) A prophecy is likely to have two meanings - one that works in an immediate context, with another deeper meaning intended. The idea of the Messiah as "Son of David" is a good example. Messiah would literally be a descendant of David, yet David prophetically calls him "Lord". Another way of saying this is that God seems to like "living parables", where spiritual truths are not only illustrated in word, but in some physical occurrence(s).

And the author you linked to has missed a major Christian interpretation of this name: This name encompasses the trinity. The Holy Spirit is referred to as the counselor, the father is obviously The Father, and the man Jesus will be the Ruler of Peace. That correlation is pretty striking when you consider that Isaiah would not have had a concept of the trinity. As the apostle Paul put it "In him [in Jesus] all the fullness of the godhead was pleased to dwell"
considering this, if that really means as the jews say, then we can call bible translators the greatest liars ever.
considering all you have written and what the jews say about isaiach 9:6 is true, then christian translators intentionally mistranslated, misquoted the verse so that they can decieve their readers as if the verse supports their case.

it is expected from christians and I very doubt they did not do it.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
v3nesl
Posts: 4,463
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 5:07:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 4:13:49 PM, Artur wrote:
At 5/25/2016 4:01:17 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise.

Two thoughts:
1) It always important to try interpretations in the larger context. You can't just look at "he shall be called", you must look at the overall point the author was making.
2) A prophecy is likely to have two meanings - one that works in an immediate context, with another deeper meaning intended. The idea of the Messiah as "Son of David" is a good example. Messiah would literally be a descendant of David, yet David prophetically calls him "Lord". Another way of saying this is that God seems to like "living parables", where spiritual truths are not only illustrated in word, but in some physical occurrence(s).

And the author you linked to has missed a major Christian interpretation of this name: This name encompasses the trinity. The Holy Spirit is referred to as the counselor, the father is obviously The Father, and the man Jesus will be the Ruler of Peace. That correlation is pretty striking when you consider that Isaiah would not have had a concept of the trinity. As the apostle Paul put it "In him [in Jesus] all the fullness of the godhead was pleased to dwell"
considering this, if that really means as the jews say, then we can call bible translators the greatest liars ever.

Or not. Your average translator is an egghead, a person with a doctorate. He is just trying to convert from one language to another.
This space for rent.
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 5:12:13 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 5:07:49 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/25/2016 4:13:49 PM, Artur wrote:
At 5/25/2016 4:01:17 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise.

Two thoughts:
1) It always important to try interpretations in the larger context. You can't just look at "he shall be called", you must look at the overall point the author was making.
2) A prophecy is likely to have two meanings - one that works in an immediate context, with another deeper meaning intended. The idea of the Messiah as "Son of David" is a good example. Messiah would literally be a descendant of David, yet David prophetically calls him "Lord". Another way of saying this is that God seems to like "living parables", where spiritual truths are not only illustrated in word, but in some physical occurrence(s).

And the author you linked to has missed a major Christian interpretation of this name: This name encompasses the trinity. The Holy Spirit is referred to as the counselor, the father is obviously The Father, and the man Jesus will be the Ruler of Peace. That correlation is pretty striking when you consider that Isaiah would not have had a concept of the trinity. As the apostle Paul put it "In him [in Jesus] all the fullness of the godhead was pleased to dwell"
considering this, if that really means as the jews say, then we can call bible translators the greatest liars ever.

Or not. Your average translator is an egghead, a person with a doctorate. He is just trying to convert from one language to another.
may be not. both are possible as of now.
if the jew that said what I read is wrong, that jew is wrong. may be he too did it intentionally.
but what about if he is right and christians have been mistranslating it for 20 centuries? if they are mistranslating it intentionally even though they know the verse does not say what they translate, what can we call that translators? I do not know. more than a hypocrite, more than a liar we should call them. we have to invent new adjective for them if the jew who wrote that is right.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 5:43:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise. one example is: http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org... summary:
1. A better translation to the verse in question might be:
...and his name will be called, 'A wonderful counselor is the mighty Gd, an everlasting father is the ruler of peace.'

2. Prince of Peace'
First of all, this is a mistranslation. The words in the original Hebrew are, 'sar shalom.' The word 'sar' does not mean 'prince,' it means 'ruler.' you can read the whole article of you want.

now, one more source I found translates it in a different way. in it, it says "counsellor mighty god will call him prince of peace". quote:


For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."
end quote. http://m.chabad.org...

somewhere I read a native speaker of Hebrew who lives in israel wrote that in hebrew it says "christians mistranslate it. in hebrew that book says "mighty god will call him ruler of peace. it does not say he will be called mighty god, prince of peace" but I cant find it now.

if there is native speakers of hebrew please discuss here. let christians know the truth and they shall ignore the truth as they always do. if you speak hebrew join discussion please. it would be better if Emilrose is here.

btw, whatever the true translation is, Jesus is never related to the verse. the verse talks about on whom rests the government which is something jesus was never able to have.

Here are 21 translations of Isaiah 9:6
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 5:47:59 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Here is a Jewish version.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty Gd, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the Etrnl of hosts will perform this.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 6:08:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 5:47:59 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Here is a Jewish version.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty Gd, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the Etrnl of hosts will perform this.

One translates in whatever way suits one's person.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 6:12:28 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 6:08:45 PM, desmac wrote:
At 5/25/2016 5:47:59 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Here is a Jewish version.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty Gd, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the Etrnl of hosts will perform this.

One translates in whatever way suits one's person.

A Jew has no reason to mistranslate anything to fit Christianity. They aren't a Christian. That's the whole point of the thread.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 6:30:04 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 6:12:28 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/25/2016 6:08:45 PM, desmac wrote:
At 5/25/2016 5:47:59 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Here is a Jewish version.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty Gd, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the Etrnl of hosts will perform this.

One translates in whatever way suits one's person.

A Jew has no reason to mistranslate anything to fit Christianity. They aren't a Christian. That's the whole point of the thread.

Anyone can, and does, mistranslate to advantage whatever cause they are selling.
Rukado
Posts: 527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 7:04:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 6:12:28 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
A Jew has no reason to mistranslate anything to fit Christianity. They aren't a Christian. That's the whole point of the thread.

A Jew, however, is motivated to mistranslated things. Jews want to lead people away from Christ. Jesus said Jews are children of the Devil, who do what the Devil desires. The Devil liar and the father of lies.
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 7:06:35 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/25/2016 5:47:59 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Here is a Jewish version.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty Gd, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the Etrnl of hosts will perform this.

chabad.org says like this:
For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace." endquote

jewishvirtuallibrary.org says whay christian bibles say. I asked aishrabbi.com about it and will share their answer here.

mechon-memre.org does not translate the names. it just writes hebrew names.

moreover, I read on whatjewsbelieve.org : they say in Isaiah 9:6 here are hebrew names, 2 names. one means "God is Almighty" and the other one means "ruler of peace" it is ike Anthony meaning priceless, Alexander meaninh protector.
reading their post what I deduced is: when I say in English "Alexander, come here" a russian translates it "ochrunnick, idi suda" idi suda means come here. in russian, protector means ochrunnick. if what I said needs to be translated into russian, does interpreter need to translate the name anthony? it is whay christians did in bible
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Artur
Posts: 719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 8:33:08 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
according to some sources (e.g aishrabbi) "The virgin birth" is also a christian mistranslation. the hebrew word which christians use to support virgin birth does indeed not mean virgin, it means young woman.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2016 9:02:44 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 10:44:32 PM, Artur wrote:
in every translation of bible translated for christianity I read Isaiah as "he will be called mighty good, counsellor, prince of peace". they all mean like that. but on the internet I found some writings by jews which say otherwise. one example is: http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org... summary:
1. A better translation to the verse in question might be:
...and his name will be called, 'A wonderful counselor is the mighty Gd, an everlasting father is the ruler of peace.'

2. Prince of Peace'
First of all, this is a mistranslation. The words in the original Hebrew are, 'sar shalom.' The word 'sar' does not mean 'prince,' it means 'ruler.' you can read the whole article of you want.

now, one more source I found translates it in a different way. in it, it says "counsellor mighty god will call him prince of peace". quote:


For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."
end quote. http://m.chabad.org...

somewhere I read a native speaker of Hebrew who lives in israel wrote that in hebrew it says "christians mistranslate it. in hebrew that book says "mighty god will call him ruler of peace. it does not say he will be called mighty god, prince of peace" but I cant find it now.

if there is native speakers of hebrew please discuss here. let christians know the truth and they shall ignore the truth as they always do. if you speak hebrew join discussion please. it would be better if Emilrose is here.

btw, whatever the true translation is, Jesus is never related to the verse. the verse talks about on whom rests the government which is something jesus was never able to have.

I read the hebrew as:

"For to us a child is born to us a son is given to and shall be the government on his shoulder and called his name Wonderful, Counselor, the God mighty The everlasting The Prince of Peace."

The words "call" in addition to the word "name" is indicating the subject " a son" will be called this name...

The same Hebrew is seen in Genesis 4:26

and Seth also to him there was born a son and he called and his name Enos....

The same Hebrew words with the same vowel points.

I see no other way to translate it than "a son will be called and his name will be ..."

On a side note I would add that the phrase "Mighty God" is different than the term "Almighty God" and the capitalization of the word "god" is an english addition.

As the hebrew is "el" which is just "god". The identification of which god is done by the following adjectives and context. Which is fitting to think this "el" is GOD all caps. Just I'm saying it is not the proper noun.