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POPOO5560
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5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.
Never fart near dog
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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5/26/2016 6:59:06 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

To understand what is moral, one must know the difference between good and evil.

Your question presupposes that theists have been able to define what evil is so that someone can identify what is evil.

So far, I have been unable to get a theist to answer my question as to how to define evil. How can we discuss the existence of objective morality if you cannot define evil?

To illustrate what I am talking about specifically, see http://www.debate.org...

I doubt any theist can define what is evil without cognitive dissonance. Prove me wrong and provide a definition of what determines when something is evil and lets see if it applies in all situations.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/26/2016 7:05:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all?
I think you mean 'why don't you admit that there is no morality at all'?

Principally because I don't believe it.

I'd be happy in principle to have a conversation with you about secular morality, Popoo, but the problem is you're presently stuck in a sort of circular moral bigotry, in which you cannot conceive of your own cultural traditions as having any moral problems, while you cannot conceive of any other thought as having additional moral insights.

That's a position of religious nationalism, so nobody outside your national identity can have a productive conversation with you.

So you yourself are creating your own failure to engage, which is why you don't get many interesting or thoughtful responses to your threads.

Change that stance, and I think your threads would be more successful.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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5/26/2016 7:38:02 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Morality exists, I just don't believe that moral values are an intrinsic property of objective reality. Morality is a sense of right and wrong that's intrinsic in the vast majority of human beings (and even in many animals, like apes). We have empathy and very similar core desires for happiness, which aligns a great deal of our fundamental judgment of right and wrong.

Obviously, we are not perfect or identical, but the vast majority of humankind is similar in this aspect; aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering. This strong similarity provides common ground for us to establish a foundation of morals to abide by in order to better achieve these results, universally. These established morals, however, and based on and greatly influenced by the premises and beliefs of these people, which includes cultural and religious beliefs and traditions. The biases we develop in regard to dividing/grouping ourselves, causes us to skew our valuations, as well (i.e. favoring the well-being of one's own perceived group over others).
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/27/2016 3:52:07 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/26/2016 6:59:06 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

To understand what is moral, one must know the difference between good and evil.

which comes through your judgment and how u interpret certain actions if they good or bad. subjective.


Your question presupposes that theists have been able to define what evil is so that someone can identify what is evil.

So far, I have been unable to get a theist to answer my question as to how to define evil. How can we discuss the existence of objective morality if you cannot define evil?

no no no... i dont say theists have the ultimate 100% true answer. u have plenty religions with different stuff. at least they trying to argue from objective morality bcz God says so (if he says something it must be true regardless our opinions bcz he is all knowing.) but the problem here is how do u know that specific religion is true... its is another debate... u cant for 100% sure about that... both in the same sh1t in some way but at least theists have objective approach whereas atheists dont have and cant argue through objective point of view.


To illustrate what I am talking about specifically, see http://www.debate.org...

well i cant argue for the bible but i can say this from islamic prospective.. everything that occurring on this world has a goal and purpose. we may think something is bad/evil but we dont know what the outcome of that incidence.


I doubt any theist can define what is evil without cognitive dissonance. Prove me wrong and provide a definition of what determines when something is evil and lets see if it applies in all situations.

true. in real world evil/good dont exist its our brain that interpret these things. your "evil" is not the same thing to some ppl.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/27/2016 4:02:53 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/26/2016 7:05:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all?
I think you mean 'why don't you admit that there is no morality at all'?

yeah sorry


Principally because I don't believe it.

I'd be happy in principle to have a conversation with you about secular morality, Popoo, but the problem is you're presently stuck in a sort of circular moral bigotry, in which you cannot conceive of your own cultural traditions as having any moral problems, while you cannot conceive of any other thought as having additional moral insights.

bcz i have problems with morality i ask this question not that i have no moral insights for others or that my traditions is the true moral way... i dont arguing that. my point is basically we all f@cked up atheists and theists together for we interpret things by our judgment by our feelings, religion or what we see as "logical" to us. but its all just an idea no facts or wrong. its kinda f@cked up philosophically xD but of course i have morals to help others or to feel empathy seeing other ppl in need. its not my point. my point is its an illusion.

That's a position of religious nationalism, so nobody outside your national identity can have a productive conversation with you.

u misunderstood me my son :)

So you yourself are creating your own failure to engage, which is why you don't get many interesting or thoughtful responses to your threads.

~:D


Change that stance, and I think your threads would be more successful.

i have u its enough :)
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/27/2016 4:15:02 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/26/2016 7:38:02 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Morality exists, I just don't believe that moral values are an intrinsic property of objective reality. Morality is a sense of right and wrong that's intrinsic in the vast majority of human beings (and even in many animals, like apes). We have empathy and very similar core desires for happiness, which aligns a great deal of our fundamental judgment of right and wrong.

in the way the judgment of right/wrong we have to think that way for survival stuff but of u call if morality its quite alright but who say feelings like empathy for others is the right thing to feel or sharing same desires. sure we have judgment of right and wrong but nothing answering if its true or wrong. subjective mind its all about.


Obviously, we are not perfect or identical, but the vast majority of humankind is similar in this aspect; aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering. This strong similarity provides common ground for us to establish a foundation of morals to abide by in order to better achieve these results, universally. These established morals, however, and based on and greatly influenced by the premises and beliefs of these people, which includes cultural and religious beliefs and traditions. The biases we develop in regard to dividing/grouping ourselves, causes us to skew our valuations, as well (i.e. favoring the well-being of one's own perceived group over others).

majority doesnt make something true. what u wrote all these things got some sense but "aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering" related to? most ppl pro selfish they really done care if they can get happiness and to inflict somebody else suffering that the same time if they have too. for most ppl maximizing happiness with their closest family. this definition cant go beyond that.
Never fart near dog
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/27/2016 6:35:34 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 4:02:53 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 7:05:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all?
I think you mean 'why don't you admit that there is no morality at all'?
yeah sorry

Okay, understood.

I'd be happy in principle to have a conversation with you about secular morality, Popoo, but the problem is you're presently stuck in a sort of circular moral bigotry, in which you cannot conceive of your own cultural traditions as having any moral problems, while you cannot conceive of any other thought as having additional moral insights.

bcz i have problems with morality
You have a religion whose doctrine tells you that strict literal obedience is both paramount and sufficient, Popoo. Why, despite that, do you still have problems with morality? Are you saying your faith is wrong? Or if you hold it right, then why are you still asking questions? And if you don't know much about morality, why single out atheists in one thread, or Christians in another?

u misunderstood me my son :)
Please forgive me if I have, Popoo, but I think I've seen many threads from you saying you know what morality is, and nobody else has morality but people of your faith.

Do you disagree with this? Do you believe that no faith knows what morality is, including your own?
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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5/27/2016 6:36:15 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 4:15:02 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 7:38:02 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Morality exists, I just don't believe that moral values are an intrinsic property of objective reality. Morality is a sense of right and wrong that's intrinsic in the vast majority of human beings (and even in many animals, like apes). We have empathy and very similar core desires for happiness, which aligns a great deal of our fundamental judgment of right and wrong.

in the way the judgment of right/wrong we have to think that way for survival stuff but of u call if morality its quite alright but who say feelings like empathy for others is the right thing to feel or sharing same desires. sure we have judgment of right and wrong but nothing answering if its true or wrong. subjective mind its all about.


Obviously, we are not perfect or identical, but the vast majority of humankind is similar in this aspect; aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering. This strong similarity provides common ground for us to establish a foundation of morals to abide by in order to better achieve these results, universally. These established morals, however, and based on and greatly influenced by the premises and beliefs of these people, which includes cultural and religious beliefs and traditions. The biases we develop in regard to dividing/grouping ourselves, causes us to skew our valuations, as well (i.e. favoring the well-being of one's own perceived group over others).

majority doesnt make something true. what u wrote all these things got some sense but "aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering" related to? most ppl pro selfish they really done care if they can get happiness and to inflict somebody else suffering that the same time if they have too. for most ppl maximizing happiness with their closest family. this definition cant go beyond that.

Yes Poo it is all subjective, there is no objective perspective with humans, for that very reason, with humans.
Cobalt
Posts: 991
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5/27/2016 6:58:02 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

I think most atheists believe in a "subjective morality", which is basically just saying "I know there isn't an objective morality, but I can definitely define my own rules of right and wrong based upon my knowledge and experience."

In this sense, subjective morality is very much real, though it can never be objectively justified.
Looncall
Posts: 463
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5/27/2016 10:08:31 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 6:58:02 AM, Cobalt wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

I think most atheists believe in a "subjective morality", which is basically just saying "I know there isn't an objective morality, but I can definitely define my own rules of right and wrong based upon my knowledge and experience."

In this sense, subjective morality is very much real, though it can never be objectively justified.

Sure it can. It really doesn't take very much thought to see what sorts of behaviour are required to enable people to live together. Add a bit of empathy and voila! morality.

Shackling oneself to a bunch of superstitious taboos actually atrophies one's moral capability. That's one reason why muslims seem to be particularly capable of atrocity.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,084
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5/27/2016 10:46:45 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Suppose we imagine morality as analogous to the rules of soccer. The rules of soccer outlaw the use of the hand or arm to control the ball, but of course players do occasionally handle the ball. Most Englishmen over a certain age remember Maradonna's 'Hand of God' goal against England in the 1986 World cup!

The fact that players handle the ball does not mean there is no 'handball rule' - only that the rule can be broken. The analogy (I finally get to it!) is that the fact that people occasionally behave immorally does not mean there is no morality. Killing someone does not prove that morality is non-existent or subjective. It only shows that behaving immorally is physicallly possible, just as it is possible to physically handle the ball in soccer. You shouldn't, but obviously you can.

To head off a possible quibble, soccer does define the punishment for handball (generally a free kick to the other side), but the rules of a game do not have to do define punishments for breaking them. An example is the card game Bridge, the rules of which define the game but have no provision for what to do if anyone cheats.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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5/27/2016 1:23:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 4:15:02 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 7:38:02 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Morality exists, I just don't believe that moral values are an intrinsic property of objective reality. Morality is a sense of right and wrong that's intrinsic in the vast majority of human beings (and even in many animals, like apes). We have empathy and very similar core desires for happiness, which aligns a great deal of our fundamental judgment of right and wrong.

in the way the judgment of right/wrong we have to think that way for survival stuff but of u call if morality its quite alright but who say feelings like empathy for others is the right thing to feel or sharing same desires. sure we have judgment of right and wrong but nothing answering if its true or wrong. subjective mind its all about.

That's why we develop codes and ethics as a group: to establish a set of ideals that we can hold each other accountable for. And yes, I know that this can be corrupted, but we're not even close to being perfect beings. I'm not really in disagreement with you, here.

Obviously, we are not perfect or identical, but the vast majority of humankind is similar in this aspect; aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering. This strong similarity provides common ground for us to establish a foundation of morals to abide by in order to better achieve these results, universally. These established morals, however, and based on and greatly influenced by the premises and beliefs of these people, which includes cultural and religious beliefs and traditions. The biases we develop in regard to dividing/grouping ourselves, causes us to skew our valuations, as well (i.e. favoring the well-being of one's own perceived group over others).

majority doesnt make something true. what u wrote all these things got some sense but "aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering" related to? most ppl pro selfish they really done care if they can get happiness and to inflict somebody else suffering that the same time if they have too. for most ppl maximizing happiness with their closest family. this definition cant go beyond that.

I am extremely curious as to what leads you to this conclusion? Yes, there exist evil people who are only out for themselves, but from my experiences, the majority of people are decent. Is there really a lot of these people in your experience?
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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5/27/2016 2:05:43 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 6:36:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/27/2016 4:15:02 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 7:38:02 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Morality exists, I just don't believe that moral values are an intrinsic property of objective reality. Morality is a sense of right and wrong that's intrinsic in the vast majority of human beings (and even in many animals, like apes). We have empathy and very similar core desires for happiness, which aligns a great deal of our fundamental judgment of right and wrong.

in the way the judgment of right/wrong we have to think that way for survival stuff but of u call if morality its quite alright but who say feelings like empathy for others is the right thing to feel or sharing same desires. sure we have judgment of right and wrong but nothing answering if its true or wrong. subjective mind its all about.


Obviously, we are not perfect or identical, but the vast majority of humankind is similar in this aspect; aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering. This strong similarity provides common ground for us to establish a foundation of morals to abide by in order to better achieve these results, universally. These established morals, however, and based on and greatly influenced by the premises and beliefs of these people, which includes cultural and religious beliefs and traditions. The biases we develop in regard to dividing/grouping ourselves, causes us to skew our valuations, as well (i.e. favoring the well-being of one's own perceived group over others).

majority doesnt make something true. what u wrote all these things got some sense but "aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering" related to? most ppl pro selfish they really done care if they can get happiness and to inflict somebody else suffering that the same time if they have too. for most ppl maximizing happiness with their closest family. this definition cant go beyond that.

Yes Poo it is all subjective, there is no objective perspective with humans, for that very reason, with humans.

How about a response Poo?
SNP1
Posts: 2,407
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5/27/2016 6:48:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Why do theists argue that there is "morality"?
I think that regardless of what theistic position is correct, morality doesn't exist.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
ken1122
Posts: 496
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5/27/2016 9:06:05 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Morality does not exist by itself, it only exist in the context of human thought;

Ken
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/28/2016 6:50:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 6:35:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/27/2016 4:02:53 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 7:05:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all?
I think you mean 'why don't you admit that there is no morality at all'?
yeah sorry

Okay, understood.

I'd be happy in principle to have a conversation with you about secular morality, Popoo, but the problem is you're presently stuck in a sort of circular moral bigotry, in which you cannot conceive of your own cultural traditions as having any moral problems, while you cannot conceive of any other thought as having additional moral insights.

bcz i have problems with morality
You have a religion whose doctrine tells you that strict literal obedience is both paramount and sufficient, Popoo. Why, despite that, do you still have problems with morality? Are you saying your faith is wrong? Or if you hold it right, then why are you still asking questions? And if you don't know much about morality, why single out atheists in one thread, or Christians in another?

i never said my religion got the right morality. i say that from objective point of view when arguing for morality in atheism as a fact that makes no sense. thats all. and i criticize everybody not only christians or atheists.


u misunderstood me my son :)
Please forgive me if I have, Popoo, but I think I've seen many threads from you saying you know what morality is, and nobody else has morality but people of your faith.

never said that where u get that frrom?


Do you disagree with this? Do you believe that no faith knows what morality is, including your own?

its not about "knowing". having no objective anchor to argue from in the first place makes atheism wrong position to argue that some acts r "good" as a fact. u cant. that is simple.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/28/2016 6:52:19 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 6:58:02 AM, Cobalt wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

I think most atheists believe in a "subjective morality", which is basically just saying "I know there isn't an objective morality, but I can definitely define my own rules of right and wrong based upon my knowledge and experience."

In this sense, subjective morality is very much real, though it can never be objectively justified.

exactly my point.
Never fart near dog
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/28/2016 6:54:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 6:50:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/27/2016 6:35:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Do you believe that no faith knows what morality is, including your own?

its not about "knowing". having no objective anchor to argue from in the first place makes atheism wrong position to argue that some acts r "good" as a fact. u cant. that is simple.

What makes you think that your faith, or any faith, is objective?
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/28/2016 7:02:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 1:23:23 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/27/2016 4:15:02 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 7:38:02 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Morality exists, I just don't believe that moral values are an intrinsic property of objective reality. Morality is a sense of right and wrong that's intrinsic in the vast majority of human beings (and even in many animals, like apes). We have empathy and very similar core desires for happiness, which aligns a great deal of our fundamental judgment of right and wrong.

in the way the judgment of right/wrong we have to think that way for survival stuff but of u call if morality its quite alright but who say feelings like empathy for others is the right thing to feel or sharing same desires. sure we have judgment of right and wrong but nothing answering if its true or wrong. subjective mind its all about.

That's why we develop codes and ethics as a group: to establish a set of ideals that we can hold each other accountable for. And yes, I know that this can be corrupted, but we're not even close to being perfect beings. I'm not really in disagreement with you, here.

yep


Obviously, we are not perfect or identical, but the vast majority of humankind is similar in this aspect; aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering. This strong similarity provides common ground for us to establish a foundation of morals to abide by in order to better achieve these results, universally. These established morals, however, and based on and greatly influenced by the premises and beliefs of these people, which includes cultural and religious beliefs and traditions. The biases we develop in regard to dividing/grouping ourselves, causes us to skew our valuations, as well (i.e. favoring the well-being of one's own perceived group over others).

majority doesnt make something true. what u wrote all these things got some sense but "aiming to maximize happiness and to minimize suffering" related to? most ppl pro selfish they really done care if they can get happiness and to inflict somebody else suffering that the same time if they have too. for most ppl maximizing happiness with their closest family. this definition cant go beyond that.

I am extremely curious as to what leads you to this conclusion? Yes, there exist evil people who are only out for themselves, but from my experiences, the majority of people are decent. Is there really a lot of these people in your experience?

unfortunately yep. when u r too decent they gonna take some advantage of u. too sweet they gonna chow u up. see lots of them at work... but u have other ppl as well as u say...
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/28/2016 7:10:14 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 6:48:26 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Why do theists argue that there is "morality"?

at least they can argue from a belief that it was determined by some of objective source contrast of some atheists arguing that there is morality...

I think that regardless of what theistic position is correct, morality doesn't exist.

maybe
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POPOO5560
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5/28/2016 7:12:05 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 6:54:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:50:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/27/2016 6:35:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Do you believe that no faith knows what morality is, including your own?

its not about "knowing". having no objective anchor to argue from in the first place makes atheism wrong position to argue that some acts r "good" as a fact. u cant. that is simple.

What makes you think that your faith, or any faith, is objective?

when God say something, it must be true bcz he is all knowing. not arguing that Islam is "right", i say it in a general way.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
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5/28/2016 7:12:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 9:06:05 PM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Morality does not exist by itself, it only exist in the context of human thought;

Ken

+1
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RuvDraba
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5/28/2016 7:14:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 7:12:05 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:54:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:50:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/27/2016 6:35:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Do you believe that no faith knows what morality is, including your own?

its not about "knowing". having no objective anchor to argue from in the first place makes atheism wrong position to argue that some acts r "good" as a fact. u cant. that is simple.

What makes you think that your faith, or any faith, is objective?

when God say something, it must be true bcz he is all knowing. not arguing that Islam is "right", i say it in a general way.

How can anyone know objectively whether any revelation received by anyone else was not some delusion, and that what communicated the revelation was a god, and the same god, and not something else?

For if you cannot know that objectively, then the foundations of any moral pronouncements from revelation are also not objective.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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5/28/2016 8:19:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 7:12:05 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:54:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:50:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/27/2016 6:35:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Do you believe that no faith knows what morality is, including your own?

its not about "knowing". having no objective anchor to argue from in the first place makes atheism wrong position to argue that some acts r "good" as a fact. u cant. that is simple.

What makes you think that your faith, or any faith, is objective?

when God say something,

God has never said anything, where would you get that crazy idea?

it must be true bcz he is all knowing. not arguing that Islam is "right", i say it in a general way.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
SNP1
Posts: 2,407
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5/28/2016 10:18:31 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 7:10:14 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/27/2016 6:48:26 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Why do theists argue that there is "morality"?

at least they can argue from a belief that it was determined by some of objective source contrast of some atheists arguing that there is morality...

No they can't.
"God" is not even close to an "objective source".

Does a "god" have a reason to say X is good or Y is bad? If so, then that same reason can be reached sans god, and so god isn't the "objective source".
If "god" does not have a reason, it is entirely arbitrary and thus relativistic at best.

This is all presupposing that the concept of morality is even coherent.

I think that regardless of what theistic position is correct, morality doesn't exist.

maybe
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/30/2016 5:11:39 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 7:14:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/28/2016 7:12:05 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:54:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:50:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/27/2016 6:35:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Do you believe that no faith knows what morality is, including your own?

its not about "knowing". having no objective anchor to argue from in the first place makes atheism wrong position to argue that some acts r "good" as a fact. u cant. that is simple.

What makes you think that your faith, or any faith, is objective?

when God say something, it must be true bcz he is all knowing. not arguing that Islam is "right", i say it in a general way.

How can anyone know objectively whether any revelation received by anyone else was not some delusion, and that what communicated the revelation was a god, and the same god, and not something else?

For if you cannot know that objectively, then the foundations of any moral pronouncements from revelation are also not objective.

absolutely right. but for everything u have to pick the most rational thing bcz it would go to infinity by questioning the foundation of the foundation of the foundation of the foundation is true... like causality the same thing we have problem of the origin of the universe. so if u ask me why i think the Quran is divinely i have my reasons that is another subject.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/30/2016 5:12:08 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 5:11:39 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 7:14:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/28/2016 7:12:05 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:54:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:50:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/27/2016 6:35:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Do you believe that no faith knows what morality is, including your own?

its not about "knowing". having no objective anchor to argue from in the first place makes atheism wrong position to argue that some acts r "good" as a fact. u cant. that is simple.

What makes you think that your faith, or any faith, is objective?

when God say something, it must be true bcz he is all knowing. not arguing that Islam is "right", i say it in a general way.

How can anyone know objectively whether any revelation received by anyone else was not some delusion, and that what communicated the revelation was a god, and the same god, and not something else?

For if you cannot know that objectively, then the foundations of any moral pronouncements from revelation are also not objective.

absolutely right. but for everything u have to pick the most rational thing bcz it would go to infinity by questioning the foundation of the foundation of the foundation of the foundation is true... like causality the same thing we have problem of the origin of the universe. so if u ask me why i think the Quran is divinely i have my reasons that is another subject.

divinely stipulated..***
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/30/2016 5:14:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 10:18:31 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 7:10:14 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/27/2016 6:48:26 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/26/2016 6:42:20 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
why do u admit that there is no morality at all? that it is just an idea and its related how u define what is good/evil according to u? when i see atheists arguing for morality its the same thing seeing religious brainwashed ppl arguing sh1t.

another thing. please dont push "collective moraliry" and stuff. bcz it looks like u bringing smokescreen to defend another an idea that doesnt exist at all.

Why do theists argue that there is "morality"?

at least they can argue from a belief that it was determined by some of objective source contrast of some atheists arguing that there is morality...

No they can't.
"God" is not even close to an "objective source".

Does a "god" have a reason to say X is good or Y is bad? If so, then that same reason can be reached sans god, and so god isn't the "objective source".
If "god" does not have a reason, it is entirely arbitrary and thus relativistic at best.

This is all presupposing that the concept of morality is even coherent.

well God have its reasons to say anything bcz he is God xD whatever he says its true that what makes he God.. my son

I think that regardless of what theistic position is correct, morality doesn't exist.

maybe
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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5/30/2016 5:17:34 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 8:19:45 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/28/2016 7:12:05 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:54:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/28/2016 6:50:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/27/2016 6:35:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Do you believe that no faith knows what morality is, including your own?

its not about "knowing". having no objective anchor to argue from in the first place makes atheism wrong position to argue that some acts r "good" as a fact. u cant. that is simple.

What makes you think that your faith, or any faith, is objective?

when God say something,

God has never said anything, where would you get that crazy idea?

from heavens

it must be true bcz he is all knowing. not arguing that Islam is "right", i say it in a general way.
Never fart near dog