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Round 4 Argument:

Theguy1789
Posts: 29
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5/26/2016 11:19:57 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Response part one for the following debate:
http://www.debate.org...

"check out the number of people killed in war in the 20th century. how civilized you think that is? is civilization only defined by having modern tools and being prosper? almost every new invention is first used for military if it has a use for it, and then for other branches of science. look at the number of nuclear bombs that countries are amassing. are they just decorations? if this amount of budget went to do something humane, would there still be hunger in the world?
and you have to give me a proof as to why you know that Islam ran state would be the end of civilization."


I don"t see why you have an issue with nations defending themselves, besides, though there were a few bloody wars through the20th Century, most of them were misunderstandings such as World War 1 or Vietnam, and get this, of all the genocides through the 20th century, all but one of them were caused by Muslims, the Armenian Genocide, terrorists gassing women and children in the middle east? Only the Holocaust wasn"t by the Muslims. I don"t see how the nations responsible for the Armenian Genocide, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, the sanctioning of sex slavery, the dehumanization of women and the hatred and persecution of non-Muslims will bring world peace.

"what is your proof for that? and who ever said that Jews will be slaughtered? Jews and Christians will be allowed to continue their practice of their religion."

Well let"s see here, Quran 3:56, 4:76, 4:89, 8:12, and 8:39 says to kill anyone who isn"t Muslims, and Ishaq 2:40 says:
"The Jews are a nation of liars.... The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people."
And Qur"an 4:54-55 says :
"Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? We had already given the people of Abraham (Jews) the Book and Wisdom, (Qur"an) and conferred upon them a great kingdom. Some of them believed, (converted to Islam) and some of them averted their faces from him (rejected the false religion): Hell is sufficient for their burning."
So as you can see, the Qur"an openly advocates for the murder of Jews to convert them to Islam, please don"t lie to me, it"s really insulting, even if the Qur"an says you can, oh, and another thing, Genesis 12:3 says:
"I will bless those who bless you, but I will curse anyone who curses you; and by you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

"well how about you check this document to begin with? "NSSM200"

That document doesn"t prove anything, it doesn"t say anything which establishes your point, that"s 2 lies so far.

"so why on earth USA killed more that one million people in iraq? why did they use radioactive ammunition in iraq and then sanctioned medicine for eight years that resulted in the death of more that half a million iraqi children?"

Source please? Also, the USA never used radioactive ammunition in Iraq, that doesn"t make any sense, why would we do hat- and I"m pretty sure there is no such thing as radioactive ammunition. That"s a third lie.

"the right to bodily autonomy" proves my point"

How- bodily autonomy only means you own yourself, i.e. you aren"t a slave as per the 13th and 14th amendments.

"the right to bear arms" even if children are killing children in America? you have six year old killing six year olds. you have kids opening fire on other kids in school. are peoples lives less important than the benefit of some companies?"

Sixty year olds aren"t killing 6 year olds, where are you getting this stuff? And I think it quite hilarious you want to ban guns to keep people safer, last I checked Switzerland and Israel have very low murder rates, and guns are very easy to get there. [1] Four lies then.


"the right to free speech". what was with all those anti communism propaganda you had a while ago? can someone talk against and research about Holocaust? why is USA supporting Saudi Arabia who is killing and beheading people just for asking questions?"


What does anti-communist propaganda have to do with this, who told you people aren"t allowed to research the holocaust, and Saudi Arabia is an enemy of the USA, it"s just that Obama is working with them.

"Which Islam denies women by allowing their husband to beat m in 4:34, rape them in 2:223, and be subject to FGM under the Hadith. " this was answered above. and as for FGM, women are allowed to do partial FGM, not complete. and its their decision to make and no one can force them. and i have never heard anyone actually do it in my country."

Yeah- I heard of the nonsense of "it was their choice," they"re never given a choice, that"s lie number 5.

"And democracy does exist today". as i said before, democracy exists only when supporting the benefits of countries with veto right. otherwise they can just veto every decision that all the other countries make."

Uh, veto other countries decisions? What- where are you getting this stuff? No really, the US doesn"t veto other nation"s decisions, it"s never happened, ever. Lie number 6.

"Islam is not compatible with democracy, see Qur'an 33:36 and Qur'an 12:40. " Islam believes in the rule of God. if what exists right know that is called democracy, has caused the death of more than 160 million people in 20th century, and a never-ending state of war, don't you think that this is not working? all those people who died in Afghanistan and Iraq, was that not done by democracy of USA? didn't they have their right of speech?
and if Moses lived today and ordered you to do something, would you do it or not? or would you kill him like Zakariya and john as well?"


Actually, there has only been 3 major series of actual war in the 20th century, WW1, WW2, and the War on Terror. Last I checked, totalitarian Islamism which is what we have in the Middle East has killed countless people on a daily basis, kidnapped young African Girls to prevent them from getting an education and selling them as sex slaves- wow, look at how peaceful Islam is. Lie number 7.

"if you want to prove that there is something is Islam that i as a Muslim don't believe, you have to provide a verse for it, not me!...
again, provide a verse that pedophilia exists in Islam. and since i am a Shia, give me a hadith from my text not whatever book you like."


Lie number 6 Qur"an 33:50 says:
"O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those [slaves] whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her " specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
Theguy1789
Posts: 29
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5/26/2016 11:22:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Response part 2:
"Islam is not compatible with democracy, see Qur'an 33:36 and Qur'an 12:40. " Islam believes in the rule of God. if what exists right know that is called democracy, has caused the death of more than 160 million people in 20th century, and a never-ending state of war, don't you think that this is not working? all those people who died in Afghanistan and Iraq, was that not done by democracy of USA? didn't they have their right of speech?
and if Moses lived today and ordered you to do something, would you do it or not? or would you kill him like Zakariya and john as well?"


Actually, there has only been 3 major series of actual war in the 20th century, WW1, WW2, and the War on Terror. Last I checked, totalitarian Islamism which is what we have in the Middle East has killed countless people on a daily basis, kidnapped young African Girls to prevent them from getting an education and selling them as sex slaves- wow, look at how peaceful Islam is. Lie number 7.

"if you want to prove that there is something is Islam that i as a Muslim don't believe, you have to provide a verse for it, not me!...
again, provide a verse that pedophilia exists in Islam. and since i am a Shia, give me a hadith from my text not whatever book you like."


Lie number 6 Qur"an 33:50 says:
"O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those [slaves] whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her " specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."


"Islam wants women to remain women and men to remain men. women are more kind and caring and have stronger emotions. because of that, a woman can not be a judge in Islam. because to be a judge, the person has to put away his emotion and become strict. he should care only about the facts and don't let emotions get in the way. if a woman were to become a judge, she would need to act and think strictly and without emotion. and if you do something for a while, that will take root it you, meaning a woman judge wont be able to care and express emotions in her family life as much as before. and that is what Islam is trying to prevent.
and as for their testimony, it is allowed, but because of the same emotions and caring, it has to be backed by the testimony of another woman."


And that"s why God authorized a woman to be a judge in the OT right? Oh wait- and a Queen- Queen Esther- the most respected Monarch in all of the OT is a woman? Is that why Genesis 21:12 says that God told Abraham to do whatever Sarah told him too? Also, women are far less likely to lie than men, so this is completely nonfactual. [2] Lie number 8

"[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence." the intelligence is the wrong translation of the word, the word that Muhammad used, was "عقل" which can somewhat be translated as wisdom, and the reason for that is their lack of strictness compared to man and their more emotional decision making. and by no means it is a bad thing. it means they are more soft hearted than men."

Why then is wisdom referred to as a woman in Proverbs 4? Wow, it sounds like your Qur"an got some serious facts wrong didn"t it? Lie number 9.

"[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion."
religion is accepting god and his orders with heart, declaring them with tongue, and doing ones responsibilities with body."
and its true that women can neither pray nor fast during their menses. and by the above explanation, during that time a part of their religion is unwillingly taken away from them. but it doesn't mean that they cant rise to the level of men or above them in religion. take Mary for example, she rose above the level of Zakariya who was the prophet of that time in faith. or wife of Pharaoh is mentioned in Quran as the example of faith "And Allah sets forth an example to those who believe the wife of Firon when she said: My Lord! build for me a house with Thee in the garden and deliver me from Firon and his doing, and deliver me from the unjust people:" Quran 66:11


So- women are unable to pray nor fast during their menses, thus they are less religious, hmm, I don"t see the connection you just drew there.

"well, if someone wages war against god and his messenger, and corrupts the land, dont you think that there should be a punishment for them? if someone kills a hundred faithful people, or kills a hundred sinless children, don't you think that they should be killed? for less crimes there are less punishments like being exiled or paying a fine."


No one has been killing innocent Muslims, save other Muslims, generally it is the other way around.

take a look at these
massacre deir yassin


Defensive warfare, Israel attacked there because of a blockade on Jerusalem, and they killed militant groups, not innocent civilians, that"s more than can be said of the Muslim Terrorists which you seem to be ignoring.

massacre sabra and shatila

Not the Israelis was Lebanon Christians and it was just a casualty of the Lebanon civil war.

the massacre of khan younis

IDF soldiers ran into local militants and a battle erupted, people got killed as a result, not the Israelis.

the massacre of qana

A compound was hit due to incorrect targeting based on erroneous data, so what, this w the 90"s.

the massacre of jenin

The battle of Jinin, not a massacre.

Gaza flotilla raid

Yeah, ships got attacked because there were terrorists on them, so what?

[1]. http://crimeresearch.org...
[2]. http://www.dailymail.co.uk...