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the numerical miracles of Quran

lightseeker
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5/28/2016 7:24:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was illiterate and did not receive any teaching from a human being to read and write. the book that he brought as the words of god, were consisted of verses that according to him, were sent to him during 23 years of his prophet hood and did not come at once. since he was illiterate, one would assume that if he were to falsely present a book as the word of god, it should have a lot of contradictions in it and should not make sense. yet Quran is a book of wonders and one of these wonders are numerical miracles of it. some of these are as follows:

a mathematical miracle of the Qur'an is the manner in which the number 19 is numerologically encoded in verses. This number is stressed in the words of the Qur'an: "There are nineteen in charge of it." (Qur'an, 74:30), and is encoded in various places in the Book. Some examples of this can be listed as follows:

`89; The Formula (In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.) consists of 19 letters.
`89; The Qur'an consists of 114 (19 x 6) Suras.
`89; The first Sura to be revealed (Sura 96) is the 19th from the end.
`89; The first verses of the Qur'an to be revealed are the first five verses of Sura 96 and the total number of words in these verses is 19.
`89; The first Sura to be revealed, Surat al-'Alaq, consists of 19 verses and 285 (19 x 15) letters.
`89; Surat an-Nasr, the final Sura to be revealed, consists of a total of 19 words.
Furthermore, the first verse of Surat an-Nasr, which speaks of the help of Allah, contains 19 letters.
`89; There are 114 Formulas in the Qur'an or 19 x 6.
`89; A total of 113 Suras in the Qur'an start with the formula. The only Sura not to start with one is `89; he ninth, Surat at-Tawba. Surat an-Naml is the only Sura to have two formulas. One of these is at the beginning and the other in verse 30. Counting from Surat at-Tawba, which does not begin with the formula, Surat an-Naml follows 19 Suras on.
`89; The sum of all the occurrences of the name "Allah" in all the verses whose numbers are multiples of 19 (i.e., verses 19, 38, 57, 76, etc.) is 133, or 19 x 7.
`89; The letter Nun appears at the beginning of only the 68th Sura. The total number of times it appears in that Sura is 133 (19 x 7).
The letters Ya and Sin appear at the beginning of Surah Ya Sin. The letter Sin appears 48 times in Surah Ya Sin and the letter Ya 237 times. The total of these letters is 285 (19 x 15).
....

======================================

other miracles:
Number of verses from the first verse of Surat al-Qamar to the end of the Qur"an = 1390
Date of the lunar landings (Islamic calendar) = 1390

Number of times the word "Moon" appears in the Qur"an = 27
Time it takes the Moon to travel round the Earth (in days) = 27

Number of times the word "land" appears in the Qur"an = 13
Number of times the word "sea" appears in the Qur"an = 32
Proportion of dry land to sea covering the Earth = 13/45 = 29%
Proportion of sea to dry land on Earth = 32/45 = 71%

The star Sirius appears in the Surah called an-Najm, meaning "Star." The stars comprising Sirius approach one another in their courses once every 49.9 years. This astronomic phenomenon is indicated in verses 49 and 9 of Surat an-Najm.

Al-Hadid is the 57th Surah of the Qur"an, and the numerical value of the words al-Hadid is also 57.
The value of the word "hadid" alone is 26, and this is also the atomic number of iron.

The word "day (yavm)" appears 365 times in the Qur"an.
It takes the Earth 365 days to orbit the Sun.

The words "man" and "woman" both appear 23 times in the Qur"an.
The 23rd chromosome is the main element that determines an individual"s gender.

Surat an-Nahl, meaning "Bee," is the 16th Surah.
The bee has 16 chromosomes.

======================================

The statement of "seven heavens" is repeated seven times. "The creation of the heavens (khalq as-samawat)" is also repeated seven times.

"Day (yawm)" is repeated 365 times in singular form, while its plural and dual forms "days (ayyam and yawmayn)" together are repeated 30 times. The number of repetitions of the word "month" (shahar) is 12.

The number of repetitions of the words "plant" and "tree" is the same: 26

The word "payment or reward" is repeated 117 times, while the expression "forgiveness" (mughfirah), which is one of the basic morals of the Qur'an, is repeated exactly twice that amount, 234 times.

When we count the word "Say," we find it appears 332 times. We arrive at the same figure when we count the phrase "they said."

The number of times the words, "world" (dunya) and "hereafter" (akhira) are repeated is also the same: 115

The word "satan" (shaitan) is used in the Qur'an 88 times, as is the word "angels" (malaika).

The word faith (iman) (without genitive) is repeated 25 times throughout the Qur'an as is also the word infidelity (kufr).

The words "paradise" and "hell" are each repeated 77 times.

The word "zakah" is repeated in the Qur'an 32 times and the number of repetitions of the word "blessing" (barakah) is also 32.

The expression "the righteous" (al-abraar) is used 6 times but "the wicked" (al-fujjaar) is used half as much, i.e., 3 times.

The number of times the words "Summer-hot" and "winter-cold" are repeated is the same: 5.

The words "wine" (khamr) and "intoxication" (saqara) are repeated in the Qur'an the same number of times: 6

The number of appearances of the words "mind" and "light" is the same: 49.

The words "tongue" and "sermon" are both repeated 25 times.

The words "benefit" and "corrupt" both appear 50 times.

"Reward" (ajr) and "action" (fail) are both repeated 107 times.

"Love" (al-mahabbah) and "obedience" (al-ta'ah) also appear the same number of times: 83

The words "refuge" (maseer) and "for ever" (abadan) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 28.

The words "disaster" (al-musibah) and "thanks" (al-shukr) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 75.

"Sun" (shams) and "light" (nur) both appear 33 times in the Qur'an.

In counting the word "light" only the simple forms of the word were included.

The number of appearances of "right guidance" (al-huda) and "mercy" (al-rahma) is the same: 79

The words "trouble" and "peace" are both repeated 13 times in the Qur'an.

The words "man" and "woman" are also employed equally: 23 times.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

well, tell me, can an illiterate person bring such a book? and this is just some of the things that are discovered so far. another thing is the beauty and appeal of Quran that attracts people who understand it so heavily that infidels of that time dubbed it as witchcraft and avoided listening to it.

i include a Surah here from youtube. take a look if you like. it has english translation too :)
https://www.youtube.com...
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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5/28/2016 7:56:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 7:24:46 PM, lightseeker wrote:
prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was illiterate and did not receive any teaching from a human being to read and write. the book that he brought as the words of god, were consisted of verses that according to him, were sent to him during 23 years of his prophet hood and did not come at once. since he was illiterate, one would assume that if he were to falsely present a book as the word of god, it should have a lot of contradictions in it and should not make sense. yet Quran is a book of wonders and one of these wonders are numerical miracles of it. some of these are as follows:

a mathematical miracle of the Qur'an is the manner in which the number 19 is numerologically encoded in verses. This number is stressed in the words of the Qur'an: "There are nineteen in charge of it." (Qur'an, 74:30), and is encoded in various places in the Book. Some examples of this can be listed as follows:

`89; The Formula (In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.) consists of 19 letters.
`89; The Qur'an consists of 114 (19 x 6) Suras.
`89; The first Sura to be revealed (Sura 96) is the 19th from the end.
`89; The first verses of the Qur'an to be revealed are the first five verses of Sura 96 and the total number of words in these verses is 19.
`89; The first Sura to be revealed, Surat al-'Alaq, consists of 19 verses and 285 (19 x 15) letters.
`89; Surat an-Nasr, the final Sura to be revealed, consists of a total of 19 words.
Furthermore, the first verse of Surat an-Nasr, which speaks of the help of Allah, contains 19 letters.
`89; There are 114 Formulas in the Qur'an or 19 x 6.
`89; A total of 113 Suras in the Qur'an start with the formula. The only Sura not to start with one is `89; he ninth, Surat at-Tawba. Surat an-Naml is the only Sura to have two formulas. One of these is at the beginning and the other in verse 30. Counting from Surat at-Tawba, which does not begin with the formula, Surat an-Naml follows 19 Suras on.
`89; The sum of all the occurrences of the name "Allah" in all the verses whose numbers are multiples of 19 (i.e., verses 19, 38, 57, 76, etc.) is 133, or 19 x 7.
`89; The letter Nun appears at the beginning of only the 68th Sura. The total number of times it appears in that Sura is 133 (19 x 7).
The letters Ya and Sin appear at the beginning of Surah Ya Sin. The letter Sin appears 48 times in Surah Ya Sin and the letter Ya 237 times. The total of these letters is 285 (19 x 15).

You could find mathematical "miracles" in any book. Count all the words in Moby Dick and look for patterns. If the counts match and if there appear to be any patterns, it could be deemed a miracle. Counts that don't match wouldn't be mentioned.

The logic is very unsound - https://wikiislam.net...'an

Christians also claim math miracles in their Bible. Since they cant both be true, what does this mean? http://www.biblebelievers.org.au...
lightseeker
Posts: 1,026
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5/28/2016 8:02:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
You could find mathematical "miracles" in any book. Count all the words in Moby Dick and look for patterns. If the counts match and if there appear to be any patterns, it could be deemed a miracle. Counts that don't match wouldn't be mentioned.

The logic is very unsound - https://wikiislam.net...'an

Christians also claim math miracles in their Bible. Since they cant both be true, what does this mean? http://www.biblebelievers.org.au...

well i invite you to give reason. to say these kind of miracles exist in any book , mean that you either have found such books or you're just shooting in the dark in hope of hitting the mark and dismiss the claim. well, name all the books that have these miracles and their proof too. thank you..
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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5/28/2016 8:16:28 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 7:24:46 PM, lightseeker wrote:
one would assume that if he were to falsely present a book as the word of god, it should have a lot of contradictions in it and should not make sense.

That is true, the Quran indeed has many contradictions and errors, it does not make any sense.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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5/28/2016 8:25:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 8:02:09 PM, lightseeker wrote:
You could find mathematical "miracles" in any book. Count all the words in Moby Dick and look for patterns. If the counts match and if there appear to be any patterns, it could be deemed a miracle. Counts that don't match wouldn't be mentioned.

The logic is very unsound - https://wikiislam.net...'an

Christians also claim math miracles in their Bible. Since they cant both be true, what does this mean? http://www.biblebelievers.org.au...

well i invite you to give reason. to say these kind of miracles exist in any book , mean that you either have found such books or you're just shooting in the dark in hope of hitting the mark and dismiss the claim. well, name all the books that have these miracles and their proof too. thank you..

Here are the numerical "miracles" of the Christian Bible - http://www.biblebelievers.org.au...
lightseeker
Posts: 1,026
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5/28/2016 9:05:50 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 8:16:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/28/2016 7:24:46 PM, lightseeker wrote:
one would assume that if he were to falsely present a book as the word of god, it should have a lot of contradictions in it and should not make sense.

That is true, the Quran indeed has many contradictions and errors, it does not make any sense.

well as in what? mind enlightening us?
janesix
Posts: 3,466
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5/28/2016 9:06:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 7:24:46 PM, lightseeker wrote:
prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was illiterate and did not receive any teaching from a human being to read and write. the book that he brought as the words of god, were consisted of verses that according to him, were sent to him during 23 years of his prophet hood and did not come at once. since he was illiterate, one would assume that if he were to falsely present a book as the word of god, it should have a lot of contradictions in it and should not make sense. yet Quran is a book of wonders and one of these wonders are numerical miracles of it. some of these are as follows:

a mathematical miracle of the Qur'an is the manner in which the number 19 is numerologically encoded in verses. This number is stressed in the words of the Qur'an: "There are nineteen in charge of it." (Qur'an, 74:30), and is encoded in various places in the Book. Some examples of this can be listed as follows:

What is the significance of 19?

`89; The Formula (In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.) consists of 19 letters.
`89; The Qur'an consists of 114 (19 x 6) Suras.
`89; The first Sura to be revealed (Sura 96) is the 19th from the end.
`89; The first verses of the Qur'an to be revealed are the first five verses of Sura 96 and the total number of words in these verses is 19.
`89; The first Sura to be revealed, Surat al-'Alaq, consists of 19 verses and 285 (19 x 15) letters.
`89; Surat an-Nasr, the final Sura to be revealed, consists of a total of 19 words.
Furthermore, the first verse of Surat an-Nasr, which speaks of the help of Allah, contains 19 letters.
`89; There are 114 Formulas in the Qur'an or 19 x 6.
`89; A total of 113 Suras in the Qur'an start with the formula. The only Sura not to start with one is `89; he ninth, Surat at-Tawba. Surat an-Naml is the only Sura to have two formulas. One of these is at the beginning and the other in verse 30. Counting from Surat at-Tawba, which does not begin with the formula, Surat an-Naml follows 19 Suras on.
`89; The sum of all the occurrences of the name "Allah" in all the verses whose numbers are multiples of 19 (i.e., verses 19, 38, 57, 76, etc.) is 133, or 19 x 7.
`89; The letter Nun appears at the beginning of only the 68th Sura. The total number of times it appears in that Sura is 133 (19 x 7).
The letters Ya and Sin appear at the beginning of Surah Ya Sin. The letter Sin appears 48 times in Surah Ya Sin and the letter Ya 237 times. The total of these letters is 285 (19 x 15).
....

======================================

other miracles:
Number of verses from the first verse of Surat al-Qamar to the end of the Qur"an = 1390
Date of the lunar landings (Islamic calendar) = 1390
So?

Number of times the word "Moon" appears in the Qur"an = 27
Time it takes the Moon to travel round the Earth (in days) = 27
Everyone knows that.

Number of times the word "land" appears in the Qur"an = 13
Number of times the word "sea" appears in the Qur"an = 32
Proportion of dry land to sea covering the Earth = 13/45 = 29%
Proportion of sea to dry land on Earth = 32/45 = 71%

The star Sirius appears in the Surah called an-Najm, meaning "Star." The stars comprising Sirius approach one another in their courses once every 49.9 years. This astronomic phenomenon is indicated in verses 49 and 9 of Surat an-Najm.

Al-Hadid is the 57th Surah of the Qur"an, and the numerical value of the words al-Hadid is also 57.
The value of the word "hadid" alone is 26, and this is also the atomic number of iron.

The word "day (yavm)" appears 365 times in the Qur"an.
It takes the Earth 365 days to orbit the Sun.
Everyone knows that.

The words "man" and "woman" both appear 23 times in the Qur"an.
The 23rd chromosome is the main element that determines an individual"s gender.

Surat an-Nahl, meaning "Bee," is the 16th Surah.
The bee has 16 chromosomes.

======================================

The statement of "seven heavens" is repeated seven times. "The creation of the heavens (khalq as-samawat)" is also repeated seven times.

"Day (yawm)" is repeated 365 times in singular form, while its plural and dual forms "days (ayyam and yawmayn)" together are repeated 30 times. The number of repetitions of the word "month" (shahar) is 12.

The number of repetitions of the words "plant" and "tree" is the same: 26

The word "payment or reward" is repeated 117 times, while the expression "forgiveness" (mughfirah), which is one of the basic morals of the Qur'an, is repeated exactly twice that amount, 234 times.

When we count the word "Say," we find it appears 332 times. We arrive at the same figure when we count the phrase "they said."

The number of times the words, "world" (dunya) and "hereafter" (akhira) are repeated is also the same: 115

The word "satan" (shaitan) is used in the Qur'an 88 times, as is the word "angels" (malaika).

The word faith (iman) (without genitive) is repeated 25 times throughout the Qur'an as is also the word infidelity (kufr).

The words "paradise" and "hell" are each repeated 77 times.

The word "zakah" is repeated in the Qur'an 32 times and the number of repetitions of the word "blessing" (barakah) is also 32.

The expression "the righteous" (al-abraar) is used 6 times but "the wicked" (al-fujjaar) is used half as much, i.e., 3 times.

The number of times the words "Summer-hot" and "winter-cold" are repeated is the same: 5.

The words "wine" (khamr) and "intoxication" (saqara) are repeated in the Qur'an the same number of times: 6

The number of appearances of the words "mind" and "light" is the same: 49.

The words "tongue" and "sermon" are both repeated 25 times.

The words "benefit" and "corrupt" both appear 50 times.

"Reward" (ajr) and "action" (fail) are both repeated 107 times.

"Love" (al-mahabbah) and "obedience" (al-ta'ah) also appear the same number of times: 83

The words "refuge" (maseer) and "for ever" (abadan) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 28.

The words "disaster" (al-musibah) and "thanks" (al-shukr) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 75.

"Sun" (shams) and "light" (nur) both appear 33 times in the Qur'an.

In counting the word "light" only the simple forms of the word were included.

The number of appearances of "right guidance" (al-huda) and "mercy" (al-rahma) is the same: 79

The words "trouble" and "peace" are both repeated 13 times in the Qur'an.

The words "man" and "woman" are also employed equally: 23 times.

A lot of " so what?" None of those things mean anything or are significant.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

well, tell me, can an illiterate person bring such a book? and this is just some of the things that are discovered so far. another thing is the beauty and appeal of Quran that attracts people who understand it so heavily that infidels of that time dubbed it as witchcraft and avoided listening to it.

i include a Surah here from youtube. take a look if you like. it has english translation too :)
https://www.youtube.com...
lightseeker
Posts: 1,026
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5/28/2016 9:08:50 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 8:25:15 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 8:02:09 PM, lightseeker wrote:
You could find mathematical "miracles" in any book. Count all the words in Moby Dick and look for patterns. If the counts match and if there appear to be any patterns, it could be deemed a miracle. Counts that don't match wouldn't be mentioned.

The logic is very unsound - https://wikiislam.net...'an

Christians also claim math miracles in their Bible. Since they cant both be true, what does this mean? http://www.biblebelievers.org.au...

well i invite you to give reason. to say these kind of miracles exist in any book , mean that you either have found such books or you're just shooting in the dark in hope of hitting the mark and dismiss the claim. well, name all the books that have these miracles and their proof too. thank you..

Here are the numerical "miracles" of the Christian Bible - http://www.biblebelievers.org.au...

i will take a look at it shortly.
lightseeker
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5/28/2016 9:20:47 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
What is the significance of 19?
Everyone knows that.
Everyone knows that.
A lot of " so what?" None of those things mean anything or are significant.

Quran was a book presented by an illiterate man 1400 years ago. and verses of it were cited by him during a period of 23 years. in all of the Arabia of that time, only about 7 people knew how to read and write. so these numbers that match make this point that Quran could not be written by him or any other person.

and everyone knows that TODAY, and the words are repeated that many times in Quran in many different Surahs and verses. think and give a reason as to how could this be possible.
matt8800
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5/28/2016 11:27:57 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 9:20:47 PM, lightseeker wrote:
What is the significance of 19?
Everyone knows that.
Everyone knows that.
A lot of " so what?" None of those things mean anything or are significant.

Quran was a book presented by an illiterate man 1400 years ago. and verses of it were cited by him during a period of 23 years. in all of the Arabia of that time, only about 7 people knew how to read and write. so these numbers that match make this point that Quran could not be written by him or any other person.

and everyone knows that TODAY, and the words are repeated that many times in Quran in many different Surahs and verses. think and give a reason as to how could this be possible.

Illiterate people have small vocabularies. It is hardly a miracle they keep repeating the same lexicon.

You can find repeating words with patterns in ANY book if you look hard enough but I bet even more so of a book written by people who can barely write.

Are the mathematical/word "miracles" that Christians present regarding the Bible convincing to you? Would that make you convert to Christianity? I'll bet you could find similar "miracles" in any religious book for that matter.

You believe it because you want it to be true. You don't believe in the same kinds of evidence presented for the Bible because you don't want it to be true. This is classic confirmation bias. The problem with confirmation bias is the person doesn't know when they have it.
matt8800
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5/28/2016 11:29:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 9:05:50 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 5/28/2016 8:16:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/28/2016 7:24:46 PM, lightseeker wrote:
one would assume that if he were to falsely present a book as the word of god, it should have a lot of contradictions in it and should not make sense.

That is true, the Quran indeed has many contradictions and errors, it does not make any sense.

well as in what? mind enlightening us?

Here is a list of contradictions in the Quran to start with - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...
DanneJeRusse
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5/29/2016 4:19:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 9:20:47 PM, lightseeker wrote:
What is the significance of 19?
Everyone knows that.
Everyone knows that.
A lot of " so what?" None of those things mean anything or are significant.

Quran was a book presented by an illiterate man 1400 years ago. and verses of it were cited by him during a period of 23 years.

Being illiterate doesn't mean one can't make up complete bs if they want.

in all of the Arabia of that time, only about 7 people knew how to read and write. so these numbers that match make this point that Quran could not be written by him or any other person.

The Quran was not written by Muhammad, didn't you know that?

and everyone knows that TODAY, and the words are repeated that many times in Quran in many different Surahs and verses. think and give a reason as to how could this be possible.

Easy, just make up bs and have someone else write it down. What's so hard about that?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
lightseeker
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5/29/2016 5:16:03 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Here is a list of contradictions in the Quran to start with - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...

well i would appreciate it if you can copy paste those contradictions here so i can answer them.

the only thing that people are using to show that Quran contradicts itself, is the progression of the orders. for example:

O ye who believe! When ye consult the Messenger in private, spend something in charity before your private consultation. That will be best for you, and most conducive to purity (of conduct). But if ye find not (the wherewithal), Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

which was updated with this one

Is it that ye are afraid of spending sums in charity before your private consultation (with him)? If, then, ye do not so, and Allah forgives you, then establish regular prayer; practise regular charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

this was not a contradiction, as Quran is a guideline to ready people for afterlife, and as every medicine, every phase has it's own duration.
lightseeker
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5/29/2016 5:22:57 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Being illiterate doesn't mean one can't make up complete bs if they want.
The Quran was not written by Muhammad, didn't you know that?
Easy, just make up bs and have someone else write it down. What's so hard about that?

Quran openly challenges people to try to bring a book like it. it's a guideline that last through ages. the fact that only one Quran exists today which is accepted by Muslims, proves that it has not changed since it was gathered during the life and after the death of Muhammad. if you see something in it that you think does not make sense, just say it, and let's have a adult conversation about it.
DanneJeRusse
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5/29/2016 5:43:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 5:22:57 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Being illiterate doesn't mean one can't make up complete bs if they want.
The Quran was not written by Muhammad, didn't you know that?
Easy, just make up bs and have someone else write it down. What's so hard about that?

Quran openly challenges people to try to bring a book like it.

There have been many books written that are far more interesting than the Quran. Perhaps, you have read few books and didn't know that. You need to expand your horizons, put the Quran down and start reading other books.

it's a guideline that last through ages.

False, it was written for those very ignorant folks who lived long ago and is irrelevant for civilization today.

the fact that only one Quran exists today which is accepted by Muslims, proves that it has not changed since it was gathered during the life and after the death of Muhammad.

So what? No one cares.

if you see something in it that you think does not make sense, just say it, and let's have a adult conversation about it.

No Muslim here or anywhere else knows how to have an adult conversation about the Quran, you have already shown that.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
lightseeker
Posts: 1,026
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5/29/2016 6:14:59 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 5:43:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/29/2016 5:22:57 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Being illiterate doesn't mean one can't make up complete bs if they want.
The Quran was not written by Muhammad, didn't you know that?
Easy, just make up bs and have someone else write it down. What's so hard about that?

Quran openly challenges people to try to bring a book like it.

There have been many books written that are far more interesting than the Quran. Perhaps, you have read few books and didn't know that. You need to expand your horizons, put the Quran down and start reading other books.

it's a guideline that last through ages.

False, it was written for those very ignorant folks who lived long ago and is irrelevant for civilization today.

the fact that only one Quran exists today which is accepted by Muslims, proves that it has not changed since it was gathered during the life and after the death of Muhammad.

So what? No one cares.

if you see something in it that you think does not make sense, just say it, and let's have a adult conversation about it.

No Muslim here or anywhere else knows how to have an adult conversation about the Quran, you have already shown that.

seems to me that you're just avoiding a fair and square argument. don't be a child. take responsibility for what you say.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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5/29/2016 6:18:44 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 6:14:59 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 5/29/2016 5:43:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/29/2016 5:22:57 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Being illiterate doesn't mean one can't make up complete bs if they want.
The Quran was not written by Muhammad, didn't you know that?
Easy, just make up bs and have someone else write it down. What's so hard about that?

Quran openly challenges people to try to bring a book like it.

There have been many books written that are far more interesting than the Quran. Perhaps, you have read few books and didn't know that. You need to expand your horizons, put the Quran down and start reading other books.

it's a guideline that last through ages.

False, it was written for those very ignorant folks who lived long ago and is irrelevant for civilization today.

the fact that only one Quran exists today which is accepted by Muslims, proves that it has not changed since it was gathered during the life and after the death of Muhammad.

So what? No one cares.

if you see something in it that you think does not make sense, just say it, and let's have a adult conversation about it.

No Muslim here or anywhere else knows how to have an adult conversation about the Quran, you have already shown that.

seems to me that you're just avoiding a fair and square argument.

You are incapable of providing such a thing, you haven't the brains to argue.

don't be a child. take responsibility for what you say.

LOL. Coming from you, that's hilarious.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
lightseeker
Posts: 1,026
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5/29/2016 6:39:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
seems to me that you're just avoiding a fair and square argument.

You are incapable of providing such a thing, you haven't the brains to argue.

don't be a child. take responsibility for what you say.

LOL. Coming from you, that's hilarious.

well, like other atheists in this site, you're also too cowardly to start a fair argument with me. is it because you're afraid to lose? suck it up dear.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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5/29/2016 9:07:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 6:39:45 PM, lightseeker wrote:
seems to me that you're just avoiding a fair and square argument.

You are incapable of providing such a thing, you haven't the brains to argue.

don't be a child. take responsibility for what you say.

LOL. Coming from you, that's hilarious.

well, like other atheists in this site, you're also too cowardly to start a fair argument with me. is it because you're afraid to lose? suck it up dear.

Lol. Or. more likely, no one wants to argue with an Islamic propagandist because they do little more than lie about everything. You have no clue what comprises a fair argument.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
lightseeker
Posts: 1,026
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5/29/2016 9:17:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 9:07:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/29/2016 6:39:45 PM, lightseeker wrote:
seems to me that you're just avoiding a fair and square argument.

You are incapable of providing such a thing, you haven't the brains to argue.

don't be a child. take responsibility for what you say.

LOL. Coming from you, that's hilarious.

well, like other atheists in this site, you're also too cowardly to start a fair argument with me. is it because you're afraid to lose? suck it up dear.

Lol. Or. more likely, no one wants to argue with an Islamic propagandist because they do little more than lie about everything. You have no clue what comprises a fair argument.

get a grip kid, you just proved my point. you're just too scared and too cowardly to even try. what a joke.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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5/29/2016 9:37:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 9:17:38 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 5/29/2016 9:07:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/29/2016 6:39:45 PM, lightseeker wrote:
seems to me that you're just avoiding a fair and square argument.

You are incapable of providing such a thing, you haven't the brains to argue.

don't be a child. take responsibility for what you say.

LOL. Coming from you, that's hilarious.

well, like other atheists in this site, you're also too cowardly to start a fair argument with me. is it because you're afraid to lose? suck it up dear.

Lol. Or. more likely, no one wants to argue with an Islamic propagandist because they do little more than lie about everything. You have no clue what comprises a fair argument.

get a grip kid, you just proved my point. you're just too scared and too cowardly to even try. what a joke.

The OP is a testament to your dishonesty, it is Islamic propaganda, nothing but complete bs. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I know you're not.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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5/29/2016 9:40:16 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 7:24:46 PM, lightseeker wrote:
prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was illiterate and did not receive any teaching from a human being to read and write. the book that he brought as the words of god, were consisted of verses that according to him, were sent to him during 23 years of his prophet hood and did not come at once. since he was illiterate, one would assume that if he were to falsely present a book as the word of god, it should have a lot of contradictions in it and should not make sense. yet Quran is a book of wonders and one of these wonders are numerical miracles of it. some of these are as follows:

a mathematical miracle of the Qur'an is the manner in which the number 19 is numerologically encoded in verses. This number is stressed in the words of the Qur'an: "There are nineteen in charge of it." (Qur'an, 74:30), and is encoded in various places in the Book. Some examples of this can be listed as follows:

`89; The Formula (In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.) consists of 19 letters.
`89; The Qur'an consists of 114 (19 x 6) Suras.
`89; The first Sura to be revealed (Sura 96) is the 19th from the end.
`89; The first verses of the Qur'an to be revealed are the first five verses of Sura 96 and the total number of words in these verses is 19.
`89; The first Sura to be revealed, Surat al-'Alaq, consists of 19 verses and 285 (19 x 15) letters.
`89; Surat an-Nasr, the final Sura to be revealed, consists of a total of 19 words.
Furthermore, the first verse of Surat an-Nasr, which speaks of the help of Allah, contains 19 letters.
`89; There are 114 Formulas in the Qur'an or 19 x 6.
`89; A total of 113 Suras in the Qur'an start with the formula. The only Sura not to start with one is `89; he ninth, Surat at-Tawba. Surat an-Naml is the only Sura to have two formulas. One of these is at the beginning and the other in verse 30. Counting from Surat at-Tawba, which does not begin with the formula, Surat an-Naml follows 19 Suras on.
`89; The sum of all the occurrences of the name "Allah" in all the verses whose numbers are multiples of 19 (i.e., verses 19, 38, 57, 76, etc.) is 133, or 19 x 7.
`89; The letter Nun appears at the beginning of only the 68th Sura. The total number of times it appears in that Sura is 133 (19 x 7).
The letters Ya and Sin appear at the beginning of Surah Ya Sin. The letter Sin appears 48 times in Surah Ya Sin and the letter Ya 237 times. The total of these letters is 285 (19 x 15).
....

======================================

other miracles:
Number of verses from the first verse of Surat al-Qamar to the end of the Qur"an = 1390
Date of the lunar landings (Islamic calendar) = 1390

Number of times the word "Moon" appears in the Qur"an = 27
Time it takes the Moon to travel round the Earth (in days) = 27

Number of times the word "land" appears in the Qur"an = 13
Number of times the word "sea" appears in the Qur"an = 32
Proportion of dry land to sea covering the Earth = 13/45 = 29%
Proportion of sea to dry land on Earth = 32/45 = 71%

The star Sirius appears in the Surah called an-Najm, meaning "Star." The stars comprising Sirius approach one another in their courses once every 49.9 years. This astronomic phenomenon is indicated in verses 49 and 9 of Surat an-Najm.

Al-Hadid is the 57th Surah of the Qur"an, and the numerical value of the words al-Hadid is also 57.
The value of the word "hadid" alone is 26, and this is also the atomic number of iron.

The word "day (yavm)" appears 365 times in the Qur"an.
It takes the Earth 365 days to orbit the Sun.

The words "man" and "woman" both appear 23 times in the Qur"an.
The 23rd chromosome is the main element that determines an individual"s gender.

Surat an-Nahl, meaning "Bee," is the 16th Surah.
The bee has 16 chromosomes.

======================================

The statement of "seven heavens" is repeated seven times. "The creation of the heavens (khalq as-samawat)" is also repeated seven times.

"Day (yawm)" is repeated 365 times in singular form, while its plural and dual forms "days (ayyam and yawmayn)" together are repeated 30 times. The number of repetitions of the word "month" (shahar) is 12.

The number of repetitions of the words "plant" and "tree" is the same: 26

The word "payment or reward" is repeated 117 times, while the expression "forgiveness" (mughfirah), which is one of the basic morals of the Qur'an, is repeated exactly twice that amount, 234 times.

When we count the word "Say," we find it appears 332 times. We arrive at the same figure when we count the phrase "they said."

The number of times the words, "world" (dunya) and "hereafter" (akhira) are repeated is also the same: 115

The word "satan" (shaitan) is used in the Qur'an 88 times, as is the word "angels" (malaika).

The word faith (iman) (without genitive) is repeated 25 times throughout the Qur'an as is also the word infidelity (kufr).

The words "paradise" and "hell" are each repeated 77 times.

The word "zakah" is repeated in the Qur'an 32 times and the number of repetitions of the word "blessing" (barakah) is also 32.

The expression "the righteous" (al-abraar) is used 6 times but "the wicked" (al-fujjaar) is used half as much, i.e., 3 times.

The number of times the words "Summer-hot" and "winter-cold" are repeated is the same: 5.

The words "wine" (khamr) and "intoxication" (saqara) are repeated in the Qur'an the same number of times: 6

The number of appearances of the words "mind" and "light" is the same: 49.

The words "tongue" and "sermon" are both repeated 25 times.

The words "benefit" and "corrupt" both appear 50 times.

"Reward" (ajr) and "action" (fail) are both repeated 107 times.

"Love" (al-mahabbah) and "obedience" (al-ta'ah) also appear the same number of times: 83

The words "refuge" (maseer) and "for ever" (abadan) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 28.

The words "disaster" (al-musibah) and "thanks" (al-shukr) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 75.

"Sun" (shams) and "light" (nur) both appear 33 times in the Qur'an.

In counting the word "light" only the simple forms of the word were included.

The number of appearances of "right guidance" (al-huda) and "mercy" (al-rahma) is the same: 79

The words "trouble" and "peace" are both repeated 13 times in the Qur'an.

The words "man" and "woman" are also employed equally: 23 times.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

well, tell me, can an illiterate person bring such a book? and this is just some of the things that are discovered so far. another thing is the beauty and appeal of Quran that attracts people who understand it so heavily that infidels of that time dubbed it as witchcraft and avoided listening to it.

i include a Surah here from youtube. take a look if you like. it has english translation too :)
https://www.youtube.com...

Muhammad was clearly literate if he wrote the Qur'an. If you claim he is illiterate then obviously he didn't really write it, someone else wrote it.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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5/29/2016 9:42:35 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 5:22:57 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Being illiterate doesn't mean one can't make up complete bs if they want.
The Quran was not written by Muhammad, didn't you know that?
Easy, just make up bs and have someone else write it down. What's so hard about that?

Quran openly challenges people to try to bring a book like it. it's a guideline that last through ages. the fact that only one Quran exists today which is accepted by Muslims, proves that it has not changed since it was gathered during the life and after the death of Muhammad. if you see something in it that you think does not make sense, just say it, and let's have a adult conversation about it.

How come Muslims disagree on which hadiths are valid?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,026
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5/30/2016 4:55:41 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Muhammad was clearly literate if he wrote the Qur'an. If you claim he is illiterate then obviously he didn't really write it, someone else wrote it.

Muhammad quoted and others wrote it.
lightseeker
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5/30/2016 5:04:35 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
How come Muslims disagree on which hadiths are valid?

there are different sects in Islam. and there were a lot of people who fabricated false hadith for money. but as a general rule, we Shias only believe in hadiths which: 1- are not against teachings of Quran, 2- are quoted from various legit sources, 3- are not against wisdom and common sense. the third one was also mentioned in hadith.

and we have a very detailed study of all those who quoted hadith, and their backgrounds of traits and hadith they have quoted and their timeline and whether they worked for kings, ... are studied and recorded.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,023
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5/30/2016 5:25:34 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
The logic is very unsound - https://wikiislam.net......'an

The first line of the wikiislam article on wikiislam is
"WikiIslam is a community edited website which focuses on the critique of Islam,".

I don't have anything like an in-depth knowledge of Islam so I can't say whether wikislam is reliable or unreliable on any topic, but its self-avowed bias must make it a dubious site to link to.
bulproof
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5/30/2016 5:50:08 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 4:55:41 AM, lightseeker wrote:
Muhammad was clearly literate if he wrote the Qur'an. If you claim he is illiterate then obviously he didn't really write it, someone else wrote it.

Muhammad quoted and others wrote it.

" in all of the Arabia of that time, only about 7 people knew how to read and write"
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
keithprosser
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5/30/2016 6:37:16 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
in all of the Arabia of that time, only about 7 people knew how to read and write.
Like Liverpool , then.