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Jesus or Paul

izbo35
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5/29/2016 2:32:21 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Christians always seem to say they follow the teachings of Jesus but they also want to throw away the old testament. Now I am not going to get into how ridiculous it is that a book written 30+ years later by non eyewitnesses has quotes but if you believe the new testament is the word of jesus. Jesus is very clear in Matthew 5:17-20 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

He states the law stands until heaven and earth disappear. I know there will be a lot of people claiming about him fulfilling laws on this, so lets defeat that argument right away. There are 2 problems with that, you don't fulfill laws you fulfil prophecy. So the fullfil part is obviously about prophecy not law. If you disagree please explain how one fulfills a law. Now the second problem is this, Jesus clarifies afterwards what he means. 21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment." 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, "Raca,"[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

He is obviously making the law stronger not getting weaker.
SNP1
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5/29/2016 4:58:14 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 2:32:21 PM, izbo35 wrote:
Christians always seem to say they follow the teachings of Jesus but they also want to throw away the old testament. Now I am not going to get into how ridiculous it is that a book written 30+ years later by non eyewitnesses has quotes but if you believe the new testament is the word of jesus. Jesus is very clear in Matthew 5:17-20 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Yes, and elsewhere it also says you don't need to follow the Law, and in other places it still says you need to.
There were two early factions of Christianity (these may even be considered the first 2 major ones), Paulinism and Peterism.
Paulinism was the view that Christianity was for everyone, that if you were Jewish and wanted to obey the Law, go ahead. If you were a Gentile and didn't, you don't have to.
Peterism was the view that Christianity was for the Jews, and that you must uphold the Law.
There are some other differences, but these are the main ones.

Paulinism eventually morphed into Gnosticism and Marcionism (there were some lesser branches, but they play almost no role) while Peterism morphed into the proto-Orthodoxy.

The Paulinist writings of influence (Pauline Epistles) and Marcion's Gospel, which was also of influence, were used by all sorts of people, some who liked the ideas (Mark), some who didn't (Luke-Acts and the Pastorals).

Eventually, the Paulinist and Heretical writings were interpolated to become more Orthodoxy and the Orthodoxy did, eventually, win out and became the Catholic Church, but it had to first absorb some Paulinism (as Paul was very popular).

They had Paul in the New Testament, but Peter was the one they really cared about for a LONG time, however it eventually came to light just what Paul was saying and so some Paulinist elements returned.

Modern Christianity is more of a combination of different themes from Paul and Peter. The extreme importance of the Old Testament is much more Peterism, but throwing it out is much more Paulinism.

If one were to look at the parts of the New Testament that are Paulist in origin, then you would reach the conclusion that the Old Testament Laws are not really all that important.

If you were to look at the parts that are Peterist in origin, then you would reach the conclusion that the Old Testament Laws are still very important.

He states the law stands until heaven and earth disappear. I know there will be a lot of people claiming about him fulfilling laws on this, so lets defeat that argument right away. There are 2 problems with that, you don't fulfill laws you fulfil prophecy. So the fullfil part is obviously about prophecy not law. If you disagree please explain how one fulfills a law. Now the second problem is this, Jesus clarifies afterwards what he means. 21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment." 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, "Raca,"[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

He is obviously making the law stronger not getting weaker.
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izbo35
Posts: 27
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5/29/2016 9:29:59 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 4:58:14 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:32:21 PM, izbo35 wrote:
Christians always seem to say they follow the teachings of Jesus but they also want to throw away the old testament. Now I am not going to get into how ridiculous it is that a book written 30+ years later by non eyewitnesses has quotes but if you believe the new testament is the word of jesus. Jesus is very clear in Matthew 5:17-20 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Yes, and elsewhere it also says you don't need to follow the Law, and in other places it still says you need to.
There were two early factions of Christianity (these may even be considered the first 2 major ones), Paulinism and Peterism.
Paulinism was the view that Christianity was for everyone, that if you were Jewish and wanted to obey the Law, go ahead. If you were a Gentile and didn't, you don't have to.
Peterism was the view that Christianity was for the Jews, and that you must uphold the Law.
There are some other differences, but these are the main ones.

Paulinism eventually morphed into Gnosticism and Marcionism (there were some lesser branches, but they play almost no role) while Peterism morphed into the proto-Orthodoxy.

The Paulinist writings of influence (Pauline Epistles) and Marcion's Gospel, which was also of influence, were used by all sorts of people, some who liked the ideas (Mark), some who didn't (Luke-Acts and the Pastorals).

Eventually, the Paulinist and Heretical writings were interpolated to become more Orthodoxy and the Orthodoxy did, eventually, win out and became the Catholic Church, but it had to first absorb some Paulinism (as Paul was very popular).

They had Paul in the New Testament, but Peter was the one they really cared about for a LONG time, however it eventually came to light just what Paul was saying and so some Paulinist elements returned.

Modern Christianity is more of a combination of different themes from Paul and Peter. The extreme importance of the Old Testament is much more Peterism, but throwing it out is much more Paulinism.

If one were to look at the parts of the New Testament that are Paulist in origin, then you would reach the conclusion that the Old Testament Laws are not really all that important.

If you were to look at the parts that are Peterist in origin, then you would reach the conclusion that the Old Testament Laws are still very important.

He states the law stands until heaven and earth disappear. I know there will be a lot of people claiming about him fulfilling laws on this, so lets defeat that argument right away. There are 2 problems with that, you don't fulfill laws you fulfil prophecy. So the fullfil part is obviously about prophecy not law. If you disagree please explain how one fulfills a law. Now the second problem is this, Jesus clarifies afterwards what he means. 21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment." 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, "Raca,"[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

He is obviously making the law stronger not getting weaker.

The problem is the books were combined and made into the bible when in fact they tell very different stories and have different viewpoints. Christians tend to follow Paul more than Jesus which is why I think christianity is more paulianity than anything The author of matthew would not have agreed that jesus wanted to law gone, he was very much in line with keeping the law so whenever a christian uses Paul to override matthew they are very much taking things out of context.
SNP1
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5/29/2016 9:35:50 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 9:29:59 PM, izbo35 wrote:
The problem is the books were combined and made into the bible when in fact they tell very different stories and have different viewpoints. Christians tend to follow Paul more than Jesus which is why I think christianity is more paulianity than anything The author of matthew would not have agreed that jesus wanted to law gone, he was very much in line with keeping the law so whenever a christian uses Paul to override matthew they are very much taking things out of context.

Aren't you presupposing that Paul is the one that did not teach what Jesus taught?
If Peter had it wrong and Paul had it right, then you appealing to a Peterist/proto-orthodoxy work (Matthew) would be meaningless.

And how does Paul have to override Matthew when Paul's writings came decades before gMatt?
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izbo35
Posts: 27
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5/29/2016 9:42:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 9:35:50 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 9:29:59 PM, izbo35 wrote:
The problem is the books were combined and made into the bible when in fact they tell very different stories and have different viewpoints. Christians tend to follow Paul more than Jesus which is why I think christianity is more paulianity than anything The author of matthew would not have agreed that jesus wanted to law gone, he was very much in line with keeping the law so whenever a christian uses Paul to override matthew they are very much taking things out of context.

Aren't you presupposing that Paul is the one that did not teach what Jesus taught?
If Peter had it wrong and Paul had it right, then you appealing to a Peterist/proto-orthodoxy work (Matthew) would be meaningless.

And how does Paul have to override Matthew when Paul's writings came decades before gMatt?

Paul is not what historians look at to find out about the historical jesus as he doesn't make claims of such, Matthew does make claims of what jesus said so it seems to me that if you are taking the bible at face value the words of jesus would outweigh the words of Paul, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I hold little weight to either of them to be honest
SNP1
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5/29/2016 9:46:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 9:42:46 PM, izbo35 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 9:35:50 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 9:29:59 PM, izbo35 wrote:
The problem is the books were combined and made into the bible when in fact they tell very different stories and have different viewpoints. Christians tend to follow Paul more than Jesus which is why I think christianity is more paulianity than anything The author of matthew would not have agreed that jesus wanted to law gone, he was very much in line with keeping the law so whenever a christian uses Paul to override matthew they are very much taking things out of context.

Aren't you presupposing that Paul is the one that did not teach what Jesus taught?
If Peter had it wrong and Paul had it right, then you appealing to a Peterist/proto-orthodoxy work (Matthew) would be meaningless.

And how does Paul have to override Matthew when Paul's writings came decades before gMatt?

Paul is not what historians look at to find out about the historical jesus as he doesn't make claims of such,

Yes, but many historians also presuppose that there still exists anything left of the historical Jesus in the records.
I take the position that we can know absolutely nothing about "Jesus", even if he existed or not.
We can't even know for sure if the name of this figure was originally Jesus or not.

Matthew does make claims of what jesus said so it seems to me that if you are taking the bible at face value the words of jesus would outweigh the words of Paul, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I hold little weight to either of them to be honest

Yes, but historians don't use "Matthew" either. They use Mark, Q, and M, though, I disagree on the existence of the traditional view of "Q" (I take a view similar to Vinzent's and Klinghardt's of the triple tradition with Marcion as a source) and don't think M existed as a prior source but was what was personally made up by the author of Matthew.
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izbo35
Posts: 27
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5/29/2016 9:56:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 9:46:58 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 9:42:46 PM, izbo35 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 9:35:50 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 9:29:59 PM, izbo35 wrote:
The problem is the books were combined and made into the bible when in fact they tell very different stories and have different viewpoints. Christians tend to follow Paul more than Jesus which is why I think christianity is more paulianity than anything The author of matthew would not have agreed that jesus wanted to law gone, he was very much in line with keeping the law so whenever a christian uses Paul to override matthew they are very much taking things out of context.

Aren't you presupposing that Paul is the one that did not teach what Jesus taught?
If Peter had it wrong and Paul had it right, then you appealing to a Peterist/proto-orthodoxy work (Matthew) would be meaningless.

And how does Paul have to override Matthew when Paul's writings came decades before gMatt?

Paul is not what historians look at to find out about the historical jesus as he doesn't make claims of such,

Yes, but many historians also presuppose that there still exists anything left of the historical Jesus in the records.
I take the position that we can know absolutely nothing about "Jesus", even if he existed or not.
We can't even know for sure if the name of this figure was originally Jesus or not.

Matthew does make claims of what jesus said so it seems to me that if you are taking the bible at face value the words of jesus would outweigh the words of Paul, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I hold little weight to either of them to be honest

Yes, but historians don't use "Matthew" either. They use Mark, Q, and M, though, I disagree on the existence of the traditional view of "Q" (I take a view similar to Vinzent's and Klinghardt's of the triple tradition with Marcion as a source) and don't think M existed as a prior source but was what was personally made up by the author of Matthew.

i don't really think it is important if a jesus existed or not as the jesus historians claim existed is not the same as the character so to be honest it is kind of a red herring to talk about historians believe in jesus as most don't grant the virgin birth or resurrection and miracles, take that away and its kind of like saying leatherface existed because ed gein did. They just aren't the same, maybe based on a true person but not a true person. Keeping the same name doesn't really change that, my contention is most christians claim the bible is correct and would argue that what jesus says in the bible is correct yet they take the side of Paul over him and that just seems odd.
Emmarie
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5/29/2016 10:23:12 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 2:32:21 PM, izbo35 wrote:

He is obviously making the law stronger not getting weaker.

I think you may be missing the entire context of what Jesus was attempting to convey. He was saying that the spirit of the Law goes above and beyond the letter of the Law. The terms, "destroy and fulfill" are meant to show that his teachings are greater than even the laws that were laid, which men had manipulated to justify their transgressions against the real law of love. The contextual cues that lead me to this conclusion, are that the words that follow his admonition about jots and titles passing from the law until all is fulfilled, which I have bolded to show their importance.

"Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca (worthless or stupid), shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
(notice how he says danger as opposed to a final judgement of immediate condemnation)
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (to me Jesus exaggerated these ideas to show how important it is to not only posses one's vessel, but to exercise self restraint in one's mind)

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. (basically word is bond)

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain (two meaning go beyond what is expected).

42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus may have started this spoken lesson to his audience, by speaking about the law to which they were familiar to get their attention so that he could direct them to the spirit of the law, that would fulfill the letter more perfectly.
brontoraptor
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5/30/2016 12:58:34 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 2:32:21 PM, izbo35 wrote:
Christians always seem to say they follow the teachings of Jesus but they also want to throw away the old testament. Now I am not going to get into how ridiculous it is that a book written 30+ years later by non eyewitnesses has quotes but if you believe the new testament is the word of jesus. Jesus is very clear in Matthew 5:17-20 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

He states the law stands until heaven and earth disappear. I know there will be a lot of people claiming about him fulfilling laws on this, so lets defeat that argument right away. There are 2 problems with that, you don't fulfill laws you fulfil prophecy. So the fullfil part is obviously about prophecy not law. If you disagree please explain how one fulfills a law. Now the second problem is this, Jesus clarifies afterwards what he means. 21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment." 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, "Raca,"[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

He is obviously making the law stronger not getting weaker.

Oh? Which law? Stone adulterers?

"He who is without sin cast the first stone."

Or this law? Love the Lord God with all your heart and all your mind and all your strength. And love your neighbor as you love yourself." ...

"On this one command stand the law and the prophets."
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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5/30/2016 1:06:19 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
(Galatians 5:14)

*

(Matthew 22:37)
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

(Matthew 22:38)
This is the first and greatest commandment.

(Matthew 22:39)
And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

(Matthew 22:40)
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
-Jesus Christ
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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5/30/2016 3:11:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 4:58:14 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:32:21 PM, izbo35 wrote:
Christians always seem to say they follow the teachings of Jesus but they also want to throw away the old testament. Now I am not going to get into how ridiculous it is that a book written 30+ years later by non eyewitnesses has quotes but if you believe the new testament is the word of jesus. Jesus is very clear in Matthew 5:17-20 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Yes, and elsewhere it also says you don't need to follow the Law, and in other places it still says you need to.
There were two early factions of Christianity (these may even be considered the first 2 major ones), Paulinism and Peterism.
Paulinism was the view that Christianity was for everyone, that if you were Jewish and wanted to obey the Law, go ahead. If you were a Gentile and didn't, you don't have to.
Peterism was the view that Christianity was for the Jews, and that you must uphold the Law.
There are some other differences, but these are the main ones.

Paulinism eventually morphed into Gnosticism and Marcionism (there were some lesser branches, but they play almost no role) while Peterism morphed into the proto-Orthodoxy.

The Paulinist writings of influence (Pauline Epistles) and Marcion's Gospel, which was also of influence, were used by all sorts of people, some who liked the ideas (Mark), some who didn't (Luke-Acts and the Pastorals).

Eventually, the Paulinist and Heretical writings were interpolated to become more Orthodoxy and the Orthodoxy did, eventually, win out and became the Catholic Church, but it had to first absorb some Paulinism (as Paul was very popular).

They had Paul in the New Testament, but Peter was the one they really cared about for a LONG time, however it eventually came to light just what Paul was saying and so some Paulinist elements returned.

Modern Christianity is more of a combination of different themes from Paul and Peter. The extreme importance of the Old Testament is much more Peterism, but throwing it out is much more Paulinism.

If one were to look at the parts of the New Testament that are Paulist in origin, then you would reach the conclusion that the Old Testament Laws are not really all that important.

If you were to look at the parts that are Peterist in origin, then you would reach the conclusion that the Old Testament Laws are still very important.

He states the law stands until heaven and earth disappear. I know there will be a lot of people claiming about him fulfilling laws on this, so lets defeat that argument right away. There are 2 problems with that, you don't fulfill laws you fulfil prophecy. So the fullfil part is obviously about prophecy not law. If you disagree please explain how one fulfills a law. Now the second problem is this, Jesus clarifies afterwards what he means. 21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment." 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, "Raca,"[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

He is obviously making the law stronger not getting weaker.

It has to be Paul whose Pauline Theology dominates the New Testament and is the backbone of mainstream Christianity.. Paul is credited for writing 14 of the 27 books in the NT. He is also known as the apostle of the Gentiles. Jesus only preached to Jews and mainly near and around his hometown Galilee.
Peter on the other hand was unschooled and no one believes he was the author of Peter. Peter also retreated from his position against Paul in Antioch which allowed Paul to dominate over the remaining disciples even though Paul was not an eyewitness to Jesus's life and ministry.
.
MadCornishBiker
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5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 2:32:21 PM, izbo35 wrote:
Christians always seem to say they follow the teachings of Jesus but they also want to throw away the old testament. Now I am not going to get into how ridiculous it is that a book written 30+ years later by non eyewitnesses has quotes but if you believe the new testament is the word of jesus. Jesus is very clear in Matthew 5:17-20 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

He states the law stands until heaven and earth disappear. I know there will be a lot of people claiming about him fulfilling laws on this, so lets defeat that argument right away. There are 2 problems with that, you don't fulfill laws you fulfil prophecy. So the fullfil part is obviously about prophecy not law. If you disagree please explain how one fulfills a law. Now the second problem is this, Jesus clarifies afterwards what he means. 21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment." 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, "Raca,"[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

He is obviously making the law stronger not getting weaker.

The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.

All the Apostles taught from them.

Understanding the Hebrew Scriptures is absolutely vital to understanding the Christian Greek Scriptures also.

All of the Bible constitutes Jehovah's evidence in his case against Satan, much of which was written well in advance of it actually happening, and even now there is plenty left to happen.

That case started in the Garden of Eden, and finishes at it's allotted time after the final test, still some time in the future.

The plan Jehovah put into action to counter Satan's challenge was divided into sections, at least three of them given specific time limits.

It started with the Patriarchal stage, in which Jehovah searched for and found a family to base his nation on.

Then came the Nation stage, which started with the creation of the Nation of Israel as Jehovah's own nation and was to lead to the Messiah.

That ended when the Messiah, when Jehovah's only begotten son arrived, became incarnate n Jesus body, and faithfully carried out his father's will, thus guaranteeing the success of his father's plan.

That is the part covered by what is badly named the Old Testament, as if it were an obsolete book. It's successful conclusion was the subject of the 4 Gospels which open out the equally badly named New Testament.

The next 1800 years or so form a sort of hiatus in which the Apostasy was allowed to rule until the time came to prepare for the start of the final phase, which we are soon to enter and which is marked by Armageddon.

This final stage, approximately 1,000 years long starts with the cleansing of the earth at Armageddon and the destruction of all human opposition, as well as the incarceration of Satan and his demons, to be held, out of action, until they are released for one final attempt to mislead the resurrected, trained and perfected dead.

Those who fail that final test will be destroyed along with Satan and all who have supported him, and been fooled by him.

That also marks the return of humanity to the perfection, the holiness that Adam enjoyed, and Jehovah's original plan returning to its proper course for eternity.

That one continuous story is why you cannot rightly separate the Bible into two parts.
It is not two parts it is one harmonious whole, from Genesis to Revelation, and if you don't understand the whole of it you don't truly understand any of it.

When that one continuous story is completed and all has happened as recorded even so long in advance, then Jehovah's evidence against Satan, all who followed him, and any who are dumb enough to try in future will be complete and from that time on Justice can be summarily executed.

The eternal precedent will have been completely set.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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5/31/2016 11:22:59 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:32:21 PM, izbo35 wrote:
Christians always seem to say they follow the teachings of Jesus but they also want to throw away the old testament. Now I am not going to get into how ridiculous it is that a book written 30+ years later by non eyewitnesses has quotes but if you believe the new testament is the word of jesus. Jesus is very clear in Matthew 5:17-20 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

He states the law stands until heaven and earth disappear. I know there will be a lot of people claiming about him fulfilling laws on this, so lets defeat that argument right away. There are 2 problems with that, you don't fulfill laws you fulfil prophecy. So the fullfil part is obviously about prophecy not law. If you disagree please explain how one fulfills a law. Now the second problem is this, Jesus clarifies afterwards what he means. 21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment." 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, "Raca,"[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

He is obviously making the law stronger not getting weaker.

The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.

All the Apostles taught from them.

Understanding the Hebrew Scriptures is absolutely vital to understanding the Christian Greek Scriptures also.

All of the Bible constitutes Jehovah's evidence in his case against Satan, much of which was written well in advance of it actually happening, and even now there is plenty left to happen.

That case started in the Garden of Eden, and finishes at it's allotted time after the final test, still some time in the future.

The plan Jehovah put into action to counter Satan's challenge was divided into sections, at least three of them given specific time limits.

It started with the Patriarchal stage, in which Jehovah searched for and found a family to base his nation on.

Then came the Nation stage, which started with the creation of the Nation of Israel as Jehovah's own nation and was to lead to the Messiah.

That ended when the Messiah, when Jehovah's only begotten son arrived, became incarnate n Jesus body, and faithfully carried out his father's will, thus guaranteeing the success of his father's plan.

That is the part covered by what is badly named the Old Testament, as if it were an obsolete book. It's successful conclusion was the subject of the 4 Gospels which open out the equally badly named New Testament.

The next 1800 years or so form a sort of hiatus in which the Apostasy was allowed to rule until the time came to prepare for the start of the final phase, which we are soon to enter and which is marked by Armageddon.

This final stage, approximately 1,000 years long starts with the cleansing of the earth at Armageddon and the destruction of all human opposition, as well as the incarceration of Satan and his demons, to be held, out of action, until they are released for one final attempt to mislead the resurrected, trained and perfected dead.

Those who fail that final test will be destroyed along with Satan and all who have supported him, and been fooled by him.

That also marks the return of humanity to the perfection, the holiness that Adam enjoyed, and Jehovah's original plan returning to its proper course for eternity.

That one continuous story is why you cannot rightly separate the Bible into two parts.
It is not two parts it is one harmonious whole, from Genesis to Revelation, and if you don't understand the whole of it you don't truly understand any of it.

When that one continuous story is completed and all has happened as recorded even so long in advance, then Jehovah's evidence against Satan, all who followed him, and any who are dumb enough to try in future will be complete and from that time on Justice can be summarily executed.

The eternal precedent will have been completely set.

What is this God's evidence against Satan? Is God still lacking evidence in the case against Satan? Why didn't God destroy Satan in the beginning when Satan was weak? Now God has to wage a full fledged war Armageddon where billions of lives are at risk. What is the use of 144,000 non combatant JW in heaven or the 10 million JW who are on earth banned from participating in warfare. You are a wobbly lopsided cripple yourself a coward who ran away from a midget of a wife.
Why are a bunch of cowards who call themselves the Jehovah's Witnesses constantly bring up Armageddon when they have excluded themselves from fighting in wars.

You wrote:" Marriage 4 ended because I ran away to Cornwall (we lived in York at the time). I travelled that far away because I knew she would try and get me back and I knew I would not be able to afford to go back. I always said that I could not have moved further away without getting my feet wet."

You wrote:" I have no intention of going into why I ran away in detail, but I really did fear for my life, after discovering precisely why a doctor had once describer her as "4 foot 9 1/2 inches of compressed anger". Yes she really was that short, and heaven help anyone who forgot the extra half inch."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/1/2016 10:11:13 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 11:22:59 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:



The eternal precedent will have been completely set.

What is this God's evidence against Satan? Is God still lacking evidence in the case against Satan? Why didn't God destroy Satan in the beginning when Satan was weak? Now God has to wage a full fledged war Armageddon where billions of lives are at risk. What is the use of 144,000 non combatant JW in heaven or the 10 million JW who are on earth banned from participating in warfare. You are a wobbly lopsided cripple yourself a coward who ran away from a midget of a wife.

God's evidence is the Bible, simple as.

Yes he could have destroyed Satan straight away, but the problem is that Justice not only has to have been done, it has to be seen to have been done.

That means evidence gathering.

Hence Jehovah had to give Satan a chance to prove his challenge so that all, Angels and humans, could see for themselves that it wouldn't work, and Jehovah's way is the only way which will.

That meant that Jehovah had to be ale to show that Satan's way failed under a vast array of situations, and we are soon to move into the final phase.

So far Satan has "won" the 1st round because he only had Adam to deal with.

The second phase entailed dealing with numbers of imperfect humans under a lot of different circumstances.

Satan has failed that according to the standards he set in his challenge.

The next phase involves cleansing the earth of all of Satan's works including all who have followed his way at Armageddon

Imprisoning Satan and his demons for a while so that they cannot interfere.

Resurrecting the dead into perfect human bodies and teaching them all Jehovah's ways

Giving them time to practice living that way

Releasing Satan again for one final test, both of humanity and of Satan's way under this new set of circumstances.

The destruction of Satan, and all who follow him, death as we know it, and the grave,

To that purpose Jehovah gave Satan a set time limit for each phase.

Why are a bunch of cowards who call themselves the Jehovah's Witnesses constantly bring up Armageddon when they have excluded themselves from fighting in wars.

They do not exclude themselves from fighting wars, Christ did, on his father's instructions.

They are no part of Satan's world and therefore are not to interfere in that world in any way, from voting to warfare between branches of his world.

If you think being a consciencious objector is easy you ought to try it, especially in wartime.

The cowardly ones still agreed to do war work, just not fight. A JW will have nothing to do with assisting the war in any way at all, and that means prison or death, the hatred of all who don;'t agree with them, and a lot of hardship.

All things that scare some more than going to war does.


You wrote:" Marriage 4 ended because I ran away to Cornwall (we lived in York at the time). I travelled that far away because I knew she would try and get me back and I knew I would not be able to afford to go back. I always said that I could not have moved further away without getting my feet wet."

You wrote:" I have no intention of going into why I ran away in detail, but I really did fear for my life, after discovering precisely why a doctor had once describer her as "4 foot 9 1/2 inches of compressed anger". Yes she really was that short, and heaven help anyone who forgot the extra half inch."

You really do have no idea what Christianity actually entails do you? especially what being "no part of the world" means.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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6/1/2016 11:31:00 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.
The "Christian Greek Scriptures." were written at least 50yrs after Jesus' alleged death, he could not have taught from them.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/1/2016 11:55:31 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 11:31:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.
The "Christian Greek Scriptures." were written at least 50yrs after Jesus' alleged death, he could not have taught from them.

I wasn't talking abut the Christian Greek Scriptures. He and the Apostles taught from the Hebrew Scriptures because, as I said at the time, they had nothing else.

That is why the Christian Greek Scriptures are so liberally plastered with quotations from or references to the Hebrew Scriptures, especially the Law.

I have said it before, if you took the Hebrew Scriptures out of the Christian Greek Scriptures there would be little left to read and it would be very disjointed.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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6/1/2016 12:46:06 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 11:55:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:31:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.
The "Christian Greek Scriptures." were written at least 50yrs after Jesus' alleged death, he could not have taught from them.

I wasn't talking abut the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Which means that you lied when you claimed that " Jesus taught fro them." you just don't get truth do you?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/1/2016 1:43:13 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 12:46:06 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:55:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:31:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.
The "Christian Greek Scriptures." were written at least 50yrs after Jesus' alleged death, he could not have taught from them.

I wasn't talking abut the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Which means that you lied when you claimed that " Jesus taught fro them." you just don't get truth do you?

I did not say that Jesus taught from the Christian Greek Scriptures I was talking about the Hebrew Scriptures.

As I said at the time they had no other scriptures.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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6/1/2016 1:56:18 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 1:43:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 12:46:06 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:55:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:31:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.
The "Christian Greek Scriptures." were written at least 50yrs after Jesus' alleged death, he could not have taught from them.

I wasn't talking abut the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Which means that you lied when you claimed that " Jesus taught fro them." you just don't get truth do you?

I did not say that Jesus taught from the Christian Greek Scriptures I was talking about the Hebrew Scriptures.

As I said at the time they had no other scriptures.
You are lying as usual LOOK.
Madman said.
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Jesus taught fro them.

Jesus couldn't have taught from the NT (whatever you call it) because it wasn't written for 50yrs after his alleged death.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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6/1/2016 2:46:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:11:13 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/31/2016 11:22:59 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:



The eternal precedent will have been completely set.

What is this God's evidence against Satan? Is God still lacking evidence in the case against Satan? Why didn't God destroy Satan in the beginning when Satan was weak? Now God has to wage a full fledged war Armageddon where billions of lives are at risk. What is the use of 144,000 non combatant JW in heaven or the 10 million JW who are on earth banned from participating in warfare. You are a wobbly lopsided cripple yourself a coward who ran away from a midget of a wife.

God's evidence is the Bible, simple as.

Yes he could have destroyed Satan straight away, but the problem is that Justice not only has to have been done, it has to be seen to have been done.

You don't think to ckearly. The delay has made Saran more powerful. Even yiu concede " So far Satan has "won" the 1st round because he only had Adam to deal with.".

That means evidence gathering.

What more evidence does God need? Satan tempted Adam and condemned man to a life on sin, Satan tempted Jesus, Satan tempted Job. Satan tempted you and ruined your life. Satan has been challenging the authority of God since the beginning of creation. That is over 6000 years of evidence. We know you are retarded and might take a while to figure the evidence, but so is Jehovah according to you struggling to gather evidence against Satan.

Hence Jehovah had to give Satan a chance to prove his challenge so that all, Angels and humans, could see for themselves that it wouldn't work, and Jehovah's way is the only way which will.

Jehivah didn't give Adam and Eve a chance. He banished them from the garden immediately and condemned them to a life of suffering. You don't seem to grasp issues on marality and justice. Your own depraved life is proof you go to get it.

That meant that Jehovah had to be ale to show that Satan's way failed under a vast array of situations, and we are soon to move into the final phase.

You just said: " So far Satan has "won" the 1st round because he only had Adam to deal with."

So far Satan has "won" the 1st round because he only had Adam to deal with.

The second phase entailed dealing with numbers of imperfect humans under a lot of different circumstances.

Meanwhile Satan roams freely destroying more lives. It seems Jehovah like you can only deal with one task at a time.

Satan has failed that according to the standards he set in his challenge.

How can Satan be failing if he is winning. You said:" So far Satan has "won" the 1st round because he only had Adam to deal with."

The next phase involves cleansing the earth of all of Satan's works including all who have followed his way at Armageddon

Armageddon is in some distant future. We have retards like you being led astray by Satan every day. You went through 4 marriages and divorces, became a serial adulterer and performed unnatural acts. Your depravity consumed almost 45 years of your life. A failed father,a failed husband of 4 marriages and a failed JW member. Now at 67 you are picking up the pieces of your wasted life while Satan continues to mock your Jehovah.

Imprisoning Satan and his demons for a while so that they cannot interfere.

Satan's army has grown with all the souls he corrupted. Only 144,000 JW will make it to heaven and they are not permitted to engage in any war. So the same Michael and his angels will be faint a much more powerful Satan with no help from all the Jehovahs or wobbly lopsided crippled ex-Jehovah's like you.

Resurrecting the dead into perfect human bodies and teaching them all Jehovah's ways

Most of the Jehovah like you are already brain dead. Resurrecting past brain dead Jehovah who exclude themselves from battle isn't much help.

Giving them time to practice living that way

Now they have to practice living again. They could not get it right the first time, that is a losing proposition.

Releasing Satan again for one final test, both of humanity and of Satan's way under this new set of circumstances.

Repeating the same mistakes and hoping for a different result is the definition of insanity.

The destruction of Satan, and all who follow him, death as we know it, and the grave,

So Satan should be destroyed. Jehovah just couldn't find the evidence to destroy Saran sooner. What is Jehovah waiting for, an apology from Satan?

To that purpose Jehovah gave Satan a set time limit for each phase.

And that set date has been changed several times. Yiu are more than guessing. You are lying.

Why are a bunch of cowards who call themselves the Jehovah's Witnesses constantly bring up Armageddon when they have excluded themselves from fighting in wars.

They do not exclude themselves from fighting wars, Christ did, on his father's instructions.

The Jehovah's Witnesses exclude themselves from fighting wars, Christ would turn the other cheek.

They are no part of Satan's world and therefore are not to interfere in that world in any way, from voting to warfare between branches of his world.

So why us their central message Armageddon and all their predictions are on Armageddon. Like they are spoiling for a war they will not participate in but expect to benefit from its outcome. Cowards!!!

If you think being a consciencious objector is easy you ought to try it, especially in wartime.

They should have given you a medal for running away from your wife and chikdren.

The cowardly ones still agreed to do war work, just not fight. A JW will have nothing to do with assisting the war in any way at all, and that means prison or death, the hatred of all who don;'t agree with them, and a lot of hardship.

But they have no problems drumming up Armageddon because they expect to benefit from its outcome.

All things that scare some more than going to war does.

Yes, raising a family and being faithful to the mother of your children can be very scary.


You wrote:" Marriage 4 ended because I ran away to Cornwall (we lived in York at the time). I travelled that far away because I knew she would try and get me back and I knew I would not be able to afford to go back. I always said that I could not have moved further away without getting my feet wet."

You wrote:" I have no intention of going into why I ran away in detail, but I really did fear for my life, after discovering precisely why a doctor had once describer her as "4 foot 9 1/2 inches of compressed anger". Yes she really was that short, and heaven help anyone who forgot the extra half inch."

You really do have no idea what Christianity actually entails do you? especially what being "no part of the world" means.

You have no idea how ridiculous you sound after claiming you were born mentally retarded and diagnosed with permanent brain damaged and born and an under developed brain which resulted in 4 failed marriages, a failed father and a failed JW member,

Here you are preaching to members who are better humans than you can ever hope to be. Any wonder by the Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowshipped and shunned you and you are forced to live alone at 67 with a dog because no human wants to be near you. Jehovah is punishing you so you never return to a normal life to destroy more lives.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/1/2016 3:01:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 1:56:18 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:43:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 12:46:06 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:55:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:31:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.
The "Christian Greek Scriptures." were written at least 50yrs after Jesus' alleged death, he could not have taught from them.

I wasn't talking abut the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Which means that you lied when you claimed that " Jesus taught fro them." you just don't get truth do you?

I did not say that Jesus taught from the Christian Greek Scriptures I was talking about the Hebrew Scriptures.

As I said at the time they had no other scriptures.
You are lying as usual LOOK.
Madman said.
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Jesus taught fro them.

Jesus couldn't have taught from the NT (whatever you call it) because it wasn't written for 50yrs after his alleged death.

Looks like you have doctored that, but obviously I meant that Jesus taught from the Hebrew scriptures because whether or not the Hebrew Scriptures were included in the Bible, or should be, was the topic under discussion so you have taken it out of context in order to prove what you have so far dismally failed to prove, and always will.

Your desperation to prove what it is impossible to prove is getting pathetic
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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6/1/2016 3:10:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 3:01:56 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:56:18 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:43:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 12:46:06 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:55:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:31:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.
The "Christian Greek Scriptures." were written at least 50yrs after Jesus' alleged death, he could not have taught from them.

I wasn't talking abut the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Which means that you lied when you claimed that " Jesus taught fro them." you just don't get truth do you?

I did not say that Jesus taught from the Christian Greek Scriptures I was talking about the Hebrew Scriptures.

As I said at the time they had no other scriptures.
You are lying as usual LOOK.
Madman said.
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Jesus taught fro them.

Jesus couldn't have taught from the NT (whatever you call it) because it wasn't written for 50yrs after his alleged death.

Looks like you have doctored that, but obviously I meant that Jesus taught from the Hebrew scriptures because whether or not the Hebrew Scriptures were included in the Bible, or should be, was the topic under discussion so you have taken it out of context in order to prove what you have so far dismally failed to prove, and always will.

Your desperation to prove what it is impossible to prove is getting pathetic
Doctored? You are incredibly stupid, The quote even contains your typo you dummy.
Jesus could not have taught from the NT. It wouldn't be written for another 50yrs after his alleged death.

You just tell lies, as we all see.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/1/2016 4:25:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 3:10:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 3:01:56 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:56:18 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:43:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 12:46:06 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:55:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:31:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.
The "Christian Greek Scriptures." were written at least 50yrs after Jesus' alleged death, he could not have taught from them.

I wasn't talking abut the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Which means that you lied when you claimed that " Jesus taught fro them." you just don't get truth do you?

I did not say that Jesus taught from the Christian Greek Scriptures I was talking about the Hebrew Scriptures.

As I said at the time they had no other scriptures.
You are lying as usual LOOK.
Madman said.
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Jesus taught fro them.

Jesus couldn't have taught from the NT (whatever you call it) because it wasn't written for 50yrs after his alleged death.

Looks like you have doctored that, but obviously I meant that Jesus taught from the Hebrew scriptures because whether or not the Hebrew Scriptures were included in the Bible, or should be, was the topic under discussion so you have taken it out of context in order to prove what you have so far dismally failed to prove, and always will.

Your desperation to prove what it is impossible to prove is getting pathetic
Doctored? You are incredibly stupid, The quote even contains your typo you dummy.
Jesus could not have taught from the NT. It wouldn't be written for another 50yrs after his alleged death.

You just tell lies, as we all see.

No, you twist things to make them seem like lies you are so desperate to prove that I am what I am not.

Some people believe I lie, some don't others aren't so sure.

That is up to each one to decide for themselves.

I know what I know, that is all that matters to me.

You really are pathetic in your desperation.
Harikrish
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6/1/2016 5:18:06 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 4:25:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 3:10:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 3:01:56 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:56:18 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:43:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 12:46:06 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:55:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:31:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:53:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.
The "Christian Greek Scriptures." were written at least 50yrs after Jesus' alleged death, he could not have taught from them.

I wasn't talking abut the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Which means that you lied when you claimed that " Jesus taught fro them." you just don't get truth do you?

I did not say that Jesus taught from the Christian Greek Scriptures I was talking about the Hebrew Scriptures.

As I said at the time they had no other scriptures.
You are lying as usual LOOK.
Madman said.
The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the : The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Jesus taught fro them.

Jesus couldn't have taught from the NT (whatever you call it) because it wasn't written for 50yrs after his alleged death.

Looks like you have doctored that, but obviously I meant that Jesus taught from the Hebrew scriptures because whether or not the Hebrew Scriptures were included in the Bible, or should be, was the topic under discussion so you have taken it out of context in order to prove what you have so far dismally failed to prove, and always will.

Your desperation to prove what it is impossible to prove is getting pathetic
Doctored? You are incredibly stupid, The quote even contains your typo you dummy.
Jesus could not have taught from the NT. It wouldn't be written for another 50yrs after his alleged death.

You just tell lies, as we all see.

No, you twist things to make them seem like lies you are so desperate to prove that I am what I am not.

Some people believe I lie, some don't others aren't so sure.

That is up to each one to decide for themselves.

I know what I know, that is all that matters to me.

You really are pathetic in your desperation.

Bulproof proved you are a liar and even after showing you where you lied you continue to deny it.

In post#12. Here is what you wrote:"The Bible is the complete thing, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures.

They cannot rightly be separated.

Jesus taught fro them.

All the Apostles taught from them.


You were saying Jesus taught from the complete bible which contained the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christisn Greek Scriptures. You went on to add all the apostles taught from them as well.

But we know the complete bible containing both the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) and the Greek Scriotures (NT) was put together centuries later. It was actually not until 367 AD that the church father Athanasius first provided the complete listing of the 66 books belonging to the canon.

This is why you should not be preaching. You are not qualified and lack knowledge and biblical scholarship. Besides, you are retarded and that further disqualifies you from participating in any intelligent discussions.