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What's Religion's Universal Nature?

charleslb
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12/12/2010 1:31:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What is religion, in the sense of a universal, fundamental definition, as opposed to a narrow "Religion is the basic notions I was raised to swallow about God" definition? Well, even including God in your definition of religion makes it somewhat Judeo-Christian tradition-centric, since it's the case that religion is not actually always about practicing a belief in a Supreme Being or beings. For example, so-called primitive religions were largely about ritual and magic rather than theological beliefs. Impersonal supernatural forces such as mana, orenda, wakanda, etc. also somewhat upstage the gods of some indigenous religions. And then there's Buddhism, which in its original and certain other forms is, loosely speaking, atheistic. More accurately, Buddhists hold that belief in God is simply quite irrelevant to the pursuit of spiritual liberation.

The upshot here is that we can't simply say that religion is the beliefs and practices that people devise to feel close to God. So what then can we inclusively say that religion is? I'll offer my own alternate definition of religion here. Religion's function in our lives is to formulate and foster a lifestyle that reflects and realizes the deeper values of life and needs of human beings. That is, when religion is working properly in our lives it evokes and embodies in its practices those intuitions about existence, human and cosmic, that transcend an egoistic and materialistic perspective and key us into the sublime wonder and worth of our lives.

The rudimentary intuitive realization found in religion, the mother of all mystical insights, is man's primordial suspicion that what meets the eye is not the profoundest and truest nature of existence, that the exterior complexion of being belies its interior character, that gross matter doesn't give us the whole story, that at its most foundational level reality transcends the tangible.

Ah, but does this amount to saying that religion equates to supernaturalism? Of course in many of the world's religions this intuitive rejection of vulgar materialism certainly and unfortunately has led to superstitious supernaturalism, but this hasn't always been the case.

Buddhism, for example, without going in for a belief in any kind of supernatural, ethereal stuff, also eschews the idea of solid material things and egoic selves. Buddhists hold that everything is just the impermanent combination of processes, not of entities, spectral or substantial. And this metaphysical viewpoint is of course not monopolized by Buddhists, it's been shared by various other philosophies and philosophers, from Heraclitus to Alfred North Whitehead to quantum theory which views reality as consisting of infinitesimal "quantum phenomena", aka processes, rather than tiny solid particles.

So, to answer the above question, no, the anti-materialism at the heart of religion and spirituality is not tantamount to supernatural mumbo jumbo. It is a form of transcendentalism however, in that it holds that the ultimate nature of reality transcends, is other than and beyond its physically perceptible nature. This basic transcendentalism of religion also holds that the non-material processes and creativity of reality contain potentialities and values that transcend the purely survival-oriented and materialistic values that cynics consider to be the whole, dismal meaning of life.

That is, the inherent transcendentalism of religion apprehends and focuses our attention on the meaning dimension of life, on the higher-level needs in the human being's hierarchy of needs. Beyond our obvious physiological needs, beyond our need for food, for shelter from the cold and the rain, for sexual release, etc. we find that we have an inborn longing for a fulfillment that has nothing to do with merely satisfying materialistic and selfish cravings. Our nature is made up not just of carnal desires but of more abstract sensibilities. These abstract sensibilities are simply the already mentioned transcendental values of existence popping up in our consciousness and demanding expression. Religion is just one form that our sensitivity to transcendental values takes.

Well, contrary to what religious bigots would like to claim, no one particular religion, nor religion per se, has this sensitivity to transcendental values cornered, there've been plenty of human beings with other interests, from time immemorial, who have been keenly susceptible to the same values and insights that are promoted by religion. Indeed, everything from art and aesthetics to the scientist's appreciation of the elegance of the material universe can call up our spiritual awareness of reality's intrinsic self-transcendence and value.

But this being said and conceded, religion is still the most systematic cultivation and expression, through inner disciplines and outer rituals, of man's perceptive feeling for the extramundane nature, the immaterial ideals, and the inward sanctity of his world. To be exact, spirituality is our proclivity and passion to pursue this feeling, and religion is the practices by which we do so. In other words, religion is the practical actualization of spirituality. Today it's popular among spiritual folks who've been soured on "organized religion" to draw an absolute distinction between spirituality and religion, but religion, when not distorted, is just spirituality made manifest and effective in our lives.

This is why it's tragic and poignant beyond words that religion has so often in its history gone astray from performing this spiritual service in our lives and our societies. When religion and its teachers, churches and their leaders forget the real raison d'etre of religion, the real function of faith, when religion degenerates into fundamentalism, fanaticism, intolerance, and inquisitions, not only are individual human beings injured, the whole human spiritual journey is sidetracked, our spiritual, mental, and moral growth as a species is seriously set back.

This in fact has happened too often and religion has acquired quite a rap sheet of crimes against humanity, with the result that today there are a great many modern people who have very little use or respect for religion, and many of those who aren't ready to throw the beauty of holiness out of their lives along with the bathwater of traditional religion prefer to call themselves "spiritual but not religious".

This really is quite disturbing because often without religion to give concrete form to spirituality our spiritual potential remains untapped and unfulfilled. For just as the transcendental values and potentialities inherent in reality must be materialized in the world to come to fruitfulness, so too must man's spiritual values and potentialities be materialized in the communions and creeds, liturgies and formalities of religion, otherwise our spirituality has a way of remaining meritlessly inert and impotent.

But of course there are those who think that religion should be kept impotent. They begrudgingly acknowledge that at its best religion is a force in our lives for personal growth and a force in history for social progress and justice, but they prefer to emphasize what we all know from current events, that at its worst religion debases itself into the ideology of terrorists and imperialists. But secular ideologies in the 20th century have also demonstrated the enormity of their own potential for motivating and rationalizing evil, so it's not as though erring in the direction of protecting ourselves from the dark side of religion by totally eliminating religion's influence from our society is the safest response indicated.

This is why it's critically important that we all come to a better understanding of the real and life-enhancing nature of religion, that we might recapture it from the holy rollers of hate and use it to bring more light and joy back into our individual lives and our troubled world
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/12/2010 2:09:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
. . . don't know . . . all I know is that God is a sphere . . . and God is a paradox . . . and God did not make us in his image . . . this is our family tree . . . http://humanorigins.si.edu...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Ogan
Posts: 407
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12/12/2010 2:37:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
To: charleslb
I am sure someone must have mentioned by now the length of your 'discourses'. Would it not be possible to be more concise, and then answer different thoughts with further answers? Lengthy discourses tend to go unread by quite a lot of debaters who otherwise would be very interested. Certainly, length is quite acceptable in a one to one debates - but in forum strings it can be quite off putting and inhibiting. Let me know your thoughts if you wish.
Your actual intention however is clear to me. I could pick holes in parts of it, but that would be unfair as the accuracy within your statements far outweigh them.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/12/2010 2:46:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:09:08 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
. . . don't know . . . all I know is that God is a sphere . . . and God is a paradox . . . and God did not make us in his image . . . this is our family tree . . . http://humanorigins.si.edu...

So, you admit that you're part of the "homo group?"
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2010 2:46:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Very interesting read and is actually quite accurate.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/12/2010 2:49:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:37:33 PM, Ogan wrote:
To: charleslb
I am sure someone must have mentioned by now the length of your 'discourses'. Would it not be possible to be more concise, and then answer different thoughts with further answers? Lengthy discourses tend to go unread by quite a lot of debaters who otherwise would be very interested. Certainly, length is quite acceptable in a one to one debates - but in forum strings it can be quite off putting and inhibiting. Let me know your thoughts if you wish.
Your actual intention however is clear to me. I could pick holes in parts of it, but that would be unfair as the accuracy within your statements far outweigh them.

One of the most impressive statements on this site.

Anyway, to answer your question, his garrulous essays are masturbatory; he fancies himself a great writer. Some users on this site were actually stupid enough to tell him that they agreed, so his posts have only remained persistently so.

It won't change.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Discordianism, the anti-dogma.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Discordianism, the anti-dogma.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/12/2010 2:56:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

That's a pretty silly assertion. Atheist simply means you don't believe in God.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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12/12/2010 2:58:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:56:21 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

That's a pretty silly assertion. Atheist simply means you don't believe in God.

I'm speaking about religious dogma since (obviously) this is the Religion forum. Now, if we were talking about philosophical dogma, that would still be a stretch since belief =/= non-belief.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/12/2010 2:59:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

Yes, essentially, to say you know anything as true, that is a dogma.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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12/12/2010 3:00:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

See my post to FREEDO.

And that's an absolutely horrible definition.

Dictionary.com had another one which is better:

"An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true."
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/12/2010 3:00:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:59:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

Yes, essentially, to say you know anything as true, that is a dogma.

dogmatist!
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2010 3:01:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:59:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

Yes, essentially, to say you know anything as true, that is a dogma.

Only in the loosest sense of the word though. Still, truth =/= dogma.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2010 3:03:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:00:17 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

See my post to FREEDO.

And that's an absolutely horrible definition.

Dictionary.com had another one which is better:

"An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true."

Even that's a bad definition. Under that definition, it still makes it impossible to make truth claims without being labeled dogma.

I think this is the most accurate and widely used:

Dogma: a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church -- Dictionary.com
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/12/2010 3:04:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:01:00 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:59:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

Yes, essentially, to say you know anything as true, that is a dogma.

Only in the loosest sense of the word though. Still, truth =/= dogma.

I didn't say truth = dogma, I said belief that you know truth - dogma.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/12/2010 3:05:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:04:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 3:01:00 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:59:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

Yes, essentially, to say you know anything as true, that is a dogma.

Only in the loosest sense of the word though. Still, truth =/= dogma.

I didn't say truth = dogma, I said belief that you know truth = dogma.

fixed
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2010 3:06:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:04:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 3:01:00 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Only in the loosest sense of the word though. Still, truth =/= dogma.

I didn't say truth = dogma, I said belief that you know truth - dogma.

You just made a truth statement that you believe to be true.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/12/2010 3:07:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:00:49 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:59:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

Yes, essentially, to say you know anything as true, that is a dogma.

dogmatist!

No, this is the definition I've chosen, what makes sense to me. I know it isn't objectively true.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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12/12/2010 3:08:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:03:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 3:00:17 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

See my post to FREEDO.

And that's an absolutely horrible definition.

Dictionary.com had another one which is better:

"An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true."

Even that's a bad definition. Under that definition, it still makes it impossible to make truth claims without being labeled dogma.

I fail to see how that makes it a bad definition.

I think this is the most accurate and widely used:

Dogma: a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church -- Dictionary.com

Yes, that's RELIGIOUS dogma. But for atheism that wouldn't be an apt choice and if FREEDO claims atheists have dogma - it would have to be philosophical dogma.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/12/2010 3:16:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:07:24 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 3:00:49 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:59:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

Yes, essentially, to say you know anything as true, that is a dogma.

dogmatist!

No, this is the definition I've chosen, what makes sense to me. I know it isn't objectively true.

if you state anything of the form "x is y" you are either stating something you believe to be true or you are lying. so lets have it freedo... are you a dogmatist or a liar?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2010 3:22:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:08:49 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 3:03:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Even that's a bad definition. Under that definition, it still makes it impossible to make truth claims without being labeled dogma.

I fail to see how that makes it a bad definition.

Aren't you the one saying that Atheism ISN'T a dogma? Well, Atheists believe Atheism is true, so by that definition, even Atheism would be a dogma. Yet, we both agree that Atheism is not a dogma (earlier, I was just demonstrating that it's possible to label Atheism a dogma under a loose sense of the word).

I think this is the most accurate and widely used:

Dogma: a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church -- Dictionary.com

Yes, that's RELIGIOUS dogma.

Yeah.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/12/2010 3:23:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
God Be A Sphere . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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12/12/2010 3:24:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Religion?, I'm so grateful I was never blinded to the extent that I turned to it.

I don't have to dissect a religion to know that it's false, the fact that it's a religion is the giveaway.

Eph 4:14 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive";

Eric Hoffer (The true believer) was right when he said,
"There is apparently some connection between dissatisfaction with oneself and proneness to credulity. The urge to escape our real self is also an urge to escape the rational and the obvious. The refusal to see ourselves as we are develops a distaste for facts and cold logic. There is no hope for the frustrated in the actual and the possible. Salvation can come to them only from the miraculous, which seeps through a crack in the iron wall of inexorable reality. They asked to be deceived".
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/12/2010 3:26:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:24:28 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
Religion?, I'm so grateful I was never blinded to the extent that I turned to it.

I don't have to dissect a religion to know that it's false, the fact that it's a religion is the giveaway.

Eph 4:14 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive";

Eric Hoffer (The true believer) was right when he said,
"There is apparently some connection between dissatisfaction with oneself and proneness to credulity. The urge to escape our real self is also an urge to escape the rational and the obvious. The refusal to see ourselves as we are develops a distaste for facts and cold logic. There is no hope for the frustrated in the actual and the possible. Salvation can come to them only from the miraculous, which seeps through a crack in the iron wall of inexorable reality. They asked to be deceived".

Given your experience here, I genuinely wonder what was in your head--how you imagined this going down--when you posted this.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/12/2010 3:30:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:09:25 PM, Ren wrote:
Atheism is not a dogma. It has no tenets and proposes no principles.

Dicordianism, however, is.

I know. I never said Atheism was a dogma. I said being an Atheist doesn't mean you have no dogma.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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12/12/2010 3:32:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 3:16:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 3:07:24 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 3:00:49 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:59:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:57:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Dogma: a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. -- Dictionary.com

Yes, essentially, to say you know anything as true, that is a dogma.

dogmatist!

No, this is the definition I've chosen, what makes sense to me. I know it isn't objectively true.

if you state anything of the form "x is y" you are either stating something you believe to be true or you are lying. so lets have it freedo... are you a dogmatist or a liar?

There is a difference between a preference and a dogma. Like I said, my definition is not true, it is just a preference that I realize I have chosen.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
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12/12/2010 3:42:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/12/2010 2:55:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 12/12/2010 2:52:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion is dogma. Many Atheists believe they have no religion, when they in-fact still have dogma. There's really no difference.

Atheists DO NOT have dogma.

Atheists may have dogmatic principles. I think you may mean being atheist entails no specific set dogma. :P