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your all blood and organ donors hey ?

Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Of course , of course .
You theists are the ones with the super duper god given extra special morals hey ? And with so many ill people that need blood ,I bet you do as often as you can. you guys probably even donate bone marrow as well hey ?
And your theist blood is probably the finest most precious blood ever.
What was I thinking.
Just Imagine if you didn't but . It would sound like this.

It's morally wrong to donate blood and what ever else you can. To the many sick , Ill, dying people that need it. Because it takes a week to produce it back naturally.
Or
After you die Its morally wrong to donate any of your organs that could , have and do save other people's lives. Because you will need these organs in heaven.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Of course , of course .
You theists are the ones with the super duper god given extra special morals hey ? And with so many ill people that need blood ,I bet you do as often as you can. you guys probably even donate bone marrow as well hey ?
And your theist blood is probably the finest most precious blood ever.
What was I thinking.
Just Imagine if you didn't but . It would sound like this.

It's morally wrong to donate blood and what ever else you can. To the many sick , Ill, dying people that need it. Because it takes a week to produce it back naturally.
Or
After you die Its morally wrong to donate any of your organs that could , have and do save other people's lives. Because you will need these organs in heaven.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm in this?

OK, lets start with organ donation.

As far as I can tell there is no scriptural reason not to donate or receive organs, as long as the surgery is performed bloodlessly, and since there is not one transplant that cannot be done this way that presents no problem.

Doctor Denton Cooley, of the Texas Heart institute has been doing both open heart surgery and transplants without the use of blood for many decades now.

As to blood donation, I suggest you Google bot "bloodless medicine" and "Bloodless surgery".

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The aforementioned Doctor Denton Cooley, discovered many decades ago that in all his surgery work he gets a better recovery rate using Ringers Lactate instead of blood, and he has long been a pioneer of bloodless surgery.

Medicine has long been known for it's reluctance to admit error, especially now in this time pf litigation being so common, but slowly but surely it is being forced to.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
tarantula
Posts: 863
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6/2/2016 12:34:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Of course , of course .
You theists are the ones with the super duper god given extra special morals hey ? And with so many ill people that need blood ,I bet you do as often as you can. you guys probably even donate bone marrow as well hey ?
And your theist blood is probably the finest most precious blood ever.
What was I thinking.
Just Imagine if you didn't but . It would sound like this.

It's morally wrong to donate blood and what ever else you can. To the many sick , Ill, dying people that need it. Because it takes a week to produce it back naturally.
Or
After you die Its morally wrong to donate any of your organs that could , have and do save other people's lives. Because you will need these organs in heaven.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm in this?

OK, lets start with organ donation.

As far as I can tell there is no scriptural reason not to donate or receive organs, as long as the surgery is performed bloodlessly, and since there is not one transplant that cannot be done this way that presents no problem.

Doctor Denton Cooley, of the Texas Heart institute has been doing both open heart surgery and transplants without the use of blood for many decades now.

As to blood donation, I suggest you Google bot "bloodless medicine" and "Bloodless surgery".

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The aforementioned Doctor Denton Cooley, discovered many decades ago that in all his surgery work he gets a better recovery rate using Ringers Lactate instead of blood, and he has long been a pioneer of bloodless surgery.

Medicine has long been known for it's reluctance to admit error, especially now in this time pf litigation being so common, but slowly but surely it is being forced to.

Totally garbage which would be amusing if it didn't cost lives!
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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6/2/2016 12:42:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Of course , of course .
You theists are the ones with the super duper god given extra special morals hey ? And with so many ill people that need blood ,I bet you do as often as you can. you guys probably even donate bone marrow as well hey ?
And your theist blood is probably the finest most precious blood ever.
What was I thinking.
Just Imagine if you didn't but . It would sound like this.

It's morally wrong to donate blood and what ever else you can. To the many sick , Ill, dying people that need it. Because it takes a week to produce it back naturally.
Or
After you die Its morally wrong to donate any of your organs that could , have and do save other people's lives. Because you will need these organs in heaven.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm in this?

OK, lets start with organ donation.

OK lets start with your absolute fear of death and your overwhelming desire for the arrival of armageddon so that you don't experience death.
It's such a pathetic childish fear and desire.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 1:09:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 12:34:41 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Of course , of course .
You theists are the ones with the super duper god given extra special morals hey ? And with so many ill people that need blood ,I bet you do as often as you can. you guys probably even donate bone marrow as well hey ?
And your theist blood is probably the finest most precious blood ever.
What was I thinking.
Just Imagine if you didn't but . It would sound like this.

It's morally wrong to donate blood and what ever else you can. To the many sick , Ill, dying people that need it. Because it takes a week to produce it back naturally.
Or
After you die Its morally wrong to donate any of your organs that could , have and do save other people's lives. Because you will need these organs in heaven.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm in this?

OK, lets start with organ donation.

As far as I can tell there is no scriptural reason not to donate or receive organs, as long as the surgery is performed bloodlessly, and since there is not one transplant that cannot be done this way that presents no problem.

Doctor Denton Cooley, of the Texas Heart institute has been doing both open heart surgery and transplants without the use of blood for many decades now.

As to blood donation, I suggest you Google bot "bloodless medicine" and "Bloodless surgery".

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The aforementioned Doctor Denton Cooley, discovered many decades ago that in all his surgery work he gets a better recovery rate using Ringers Lactate instead of blood, and he has long been a pioneer of bloodless surgery.

Medicine has long been known for it's reluctance to admit error, especially now in this time pf litigation being so common, but slowly but surely it is being forced to.

Totally garbage which would be amusing if it didn't cost lives!

It doesn't cost lives, it ensures eternal lives.

Also not a word of that is garbage as anyone who cares to research what I say will soon find out.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant because it was one of the subjects i researched most thoroughly before becoming a JW, including research in medical textbooks about the dangers of blood transfusion.

The trouble is Anna that in trying to highlight what you see as ignorance in others, all you are doing is highlighting your own much greater ignorance, as anyone with the ability to use Google will soon find out.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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6/2/2016 1:27:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant because it was one of the subjects i researched most thoroughly before becoming a JW, including research in medical textbooks about the dangers of blood transfusion.

The trouble is Anna that in trying to highlight what you see as ignorance in others, all you are doing is highlighting your own much greater ignorance, as anyone with the ability to use Google will soon find out.

You are ignorant beyond belief, the scientific information you get from the cartoon channel is just a demonstration of your stupidity.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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6/2/2016 1:37:14 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

If the Witnesses, as adults, want to refuse their own medical treatment that includes blood transfusions, that's perfectly fine with me. The morticians will appreciate it, anyway. However, to inflict their cultish belief system on innocent children - children in accidents, children with leukemia, children with hemorrhagic ulcers, and the like - is downright criminal.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 2:01:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 1:37:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

But their obedience has earned them a place in Jehovah's New System when Christ brings it in, and that is what really matters.

Frankly I have never unerstood why hospitals refused then the alternatives theyw ere prepared to accept. After all if they had given them the alternatives and they had ives, all would have been well.

If they had given them the alternatives and they had still died then it would have been no-one's fault but their own.

Would it have hurt the hospitals to allow them the alternatives they asked for?

No, they would have had an excuse if the people still died.

Noe they have no excuse for having refused them the treatment they asked for out of sheer arrogance.

However by refusing them the alternatives they cannot prove that the alternatives would not have worked, and they are blood-guilty in Jehovah's eyes.

Modern medicine is proving over and again that many of them if not all, would have survived had they been allowed those treatments.

No Anna it is you who is ignorant not me, and like you accuse me of, you not only don't know it, you don;t want to know it.

Do you really value this life so much more than that which is to come? Despite the fact that the one to come will be infinitely better than this one?
Or is it simply down to your obvious lack of faith in Jehvoah's promises thrugh hsi son?


If the Witnesses, as adults, want to refuse their own medical treatment that includes blood transfusions, that's perfectly fine with me. The morticians will appreciate it, anyway. However, to inflict their cultish belief system on innocent children - children in accidents, children with leukemia, children with hemorrhagic ulcers, and the like - is downright criminal.

Yes and giving them the alternative treatments they asked for should have been alright with the hospitals but wasn't.

Why?

We all know that your problem is lack of faith Anna, simple as.

I have 100% faith tat all of those ones who did die will gain a resurrection and will be eternally better off for doing so as promised.

You would prefer them to "find their soul" rather than "lose it for my (Jesus) sake"
Matthew 10:39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.

I can understand someone with no faith taking your stance, but not someone who pretends to have faith but does not.

Your pretence will not benefit you.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 2:02:22 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 1:27:38 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant because it was one of the subjects i researched most thoroughly before becoming a JW, including research in medical textbooks about the dangers of blood transfusion.

The trouble is Anna that in trying to highlight what you see as ignorance in others, all you are doing is highlighting your own much greater ignorance, as anyone with the ability to use Google will soon find out.

You are ignorant beyond belief, the scientific information you get from the cartoon channel is just a demonstration of your stupidity.

Anyone who can use Google will find it is not me who is ignorant.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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6/2/2016 2:21:40 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 2:02:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:27:38 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant because it was one of the subjects i researched most thoroughly before becoming a JW, including research in medical textbooks about the dangers of blood transfusion.

The trouble is Anna that in trying to highlight what you see as ignorance in others, all you are doing is highlighting your own much greater ignorance, as anyone with the ability to use Google will soon find out.

You are ignorant beyond belief, the scientific information you get from the cartoon channel is just a demonstration of your stupidity.

Anyone who can use Google will find it is not me who is ignorant.

Ha Ha Ha.
Madman you are so funny and pig ignorant.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 2:54:30 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 2:21:40 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/2/2016 2:02:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:27:38 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant because it was one of the subjects i researched most thoroughly before becoming a JW, including research in medical textbooks about the dangers of blood transfusion.

The trouble is Anna that in trying to highlight what you see as ignorance in others, all you are doing is highlighting your own much greater ignorance, as anyone with the ability to use Google will soon find out.

You are ignorant beyond belief, the scientific information you get from the cartoon channel is just a demonstration of your stupidity.

Anyone who can use Google will find it is not me who is ignorant.

Ha Ha Ha.
Madman you are so funny and pig ignorant.

You are welcome to your opinion, erroneous as it is.

Your loss not mine.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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6/2/2016 3:00:42 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 2:01:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:37:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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6/2/2016 3:09:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Of course , of course .
You theists are the ones with the super duper god given extra special morals hey ? And with so many ill people that need blood ,I bet you do as often as you can. you guys probably even donate bone marrow as well hey ?
And your theist blood is probably the finest most precious blood ever.
What was I thinking.
Just Imagine if you didn't but . It would sound like this.

It's morally wrong to donate blood and what ever else you can. To the many sick , Ill, dying people that need it. Because it takes a week to produce it back naturally.
Or
After you die Its morally wrong to donate any of your organs that could , have and do save other people's lives. Because you will need these organs in heaven.

L O L +1

Your poor english is hilarious.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 3:00:42 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 2:01:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:37:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

The upsurge in Bloodless Surgery, plus the experience of Dr Denton Cooley, of the Texas Heart Institute, and one of the worlds top heart surgeons proves otherwise.

Why do you think teh blood issue never hits the headlines any more?

Because it isn't an issue any longer and even the medical profession tacitly admits that by providing the alternatives, as you would know if you checked out "bloodless surgery" and "bloodless medicine" on Google.

People just don't die for lack of transfusions any more. Because hospitals cooperate now where they didn't before.

Like so many things you simply don't want to admit it, but one day you will have to face the truth.

The sooner the better for your sake.

Or are you one of those who, at Armageddon will shake your fist at the sky and say "No God, you are wrong"?
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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6/2/2016 3:29:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:00:42 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 2:01:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:37:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

Give an example of a JW who (1) refused a blood transfusion, then (2) upon his/her refusal was refused any alternative form of treatment whatsoever. After all, you've told us that such a thing happened.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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6/2/2016 3:32:31 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 3:09:24 PM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Of course , of course .
You theists are the ones with the super duper god given extra special morals hey ? And with so many ill people that need blood ,I bet you do as often as you can. you guys probably even donate bone marrow as well hey ?
And your theist blood is probably the finest most precious blood ever.
What was I thinking.
Just Imagine if you didn't but . It would sound like this.

It's morally wrong to donate blood and what ever else you can. To the many sick , Ill, dying people that need it. Because it takes a week to produce it back naturally.
Or
After you die Its morally wrong to donate any of your organs that could , have and do save other people's lives. Because you will need these organs in heaven.

L O L +1

Your poor english is hilarious.

I can't read , I can't write, but I can drive a tractor alright.
roun12
Posts: 177
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6/2/2016 3:34:36 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 3:32:31 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:09:24 PM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Of course , of course .
You theists are the ones with the super duper god given extra special morals hey ? And with so many ill people that need blood ,I bet you do as often as you can. you guys probably even donate bone marrow as well hey ?
And your theist blood is probably the finest most precious blood ever.
What was I thinking.
Just Imagine if you didn't but . It would sound like this.

It's morally wrong to donate blood and what ever else you can. To the many sick , Ill, dying people that need it. Because it takes a week to produce it back naturally.
Or
After you die Its morally wrong to donate any of your organs that could , have and do save other people's lives. Because you will need these organs in heaven.

L O L +1

Your poor english is hilarious.

I can't read , I can't write, but I can drive a tractor alright.

Har har har.
"No, I disagree. 'R' is among the most menacing of sounds. That's why they call it MURDER, not Muckduck." - Dwight

"Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." - George Carlin
simplelife
Posts: 134
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6/2/2016 3:50:39 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 2:01:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:37:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

But their obedience has earned them a place in Jehovah's New System when Christ brings it in, and that is what really matters.

Your ignorance of what is written by former saints and prophets are very easy to see.

Acts 17
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.

God's people do not NEED to work their way to Heaven because there is no place called Heaven. Heaven is a symbolic term that means God's invisible creation. Other biblical names for Heaven is the Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Christ, Kingdom of the Spirit, Kingdom of Heaven.

God's people can only recognize the visible worlds that appear in their minds called Earth or Earthly Kingdom. Thus, Heaven and Earth mean the invisible kingdom and the visible kingdom.

You're one very ignorant false prophet MCB.
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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6/2/2016 3:51:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 3:32:31 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:09:24 PM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Of course , of course .
You theists are the ones with the super duper god given extra special morals hey ? And with so many ill people that need blood ,I bet you do as often as you can. you guys probably even donate bone marrow as well hey ?
And your theist blood is probably the finest most precious blood ever.
What was I thinking.
Just Imagine if you didn't but . It would sound like this.

It's morally wrong to donate blood and what ever else you can. To the many sick , Ill, dying people that need it. Because it takes a week to produce it back naturally.
Or
After you die Its morally wrong to donate any of your organs that could , have and do save other people's lives. Because you will need these organs in heaven.

L O L +1

Your poor english is hilarious.

I can't read , I can't write, but I can drive a tractor alright.

CLAP CLAP CLAP

I genuinely fell in love with your poor english. You are not boring at all given someone has a sense of humor.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 4:05:16 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 3:29:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

Give an example of a JW who (1) refused a blood transfusion, then (2) upon his/her refusal was refused any alternative form of treatment whatsoever. After all, you've told us that such a thing happened.

Sorry, you'll have to take my word for it.

It happened, many times. I know it did, and that is all that matters.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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6/2/2016 4:21:02 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 4:05:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:29:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

Give an example of a JW who (1) refused a blood transfusion, then (2) upon his/her refusal was refused any alternative form of treatment whatsoever. After all, you've told us that such a thing happened.

Sorry, you'll have to take my word for it.

Well, it seems to me that there would be some dandy court cases in which a JW said, "No, I refuse a blood transfusion" to which the reply, in word and/or deed, was "Well, then we aren't going to treat you at all."

You know as well as I do that there are no such cases.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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6/2/2016 4:40:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 4:05:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:29:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

Give an example of a JW who (1) refused a blood transfusion, then (2) upon his/her refusal was refused any alternative form of treatment whatsoever. After all, you've told us that such a thing happened.

Sorry, you'll have to take my word for it.

It happened, many times. I know it did, and that is all that matters.

What's your opinion on mosquitos.
Could the correct amount of mosquitos and leaches send you straight to hell.
Did your god invent the mosquito. ?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 5:22:13 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 4:21:02 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 4:05:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:29:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

Give an example of a JW who (1) refused a blood transfusion, then (2) upon his/her refusal was refused any alternative form of treatment whatsoever. After all, you've told us that such a thing happened.

Sorry, you'll have to take my word for it.

Well, it seems to me that there would be some dandy court cases in which a JW said, "No, I refuse a blood transfusion" to which the reply, in word and/or deed, was "Well, then we aren't going to treat you at all."

Why would there be a court case over it?

Since when did hospitals take JWs to court to force transfusions on them?

No, these things never reached court, and JWs are not great litigators, they will simply wait until the resurrection to see their loved ones again.

There have been enough reports in the press about it with the JWs being quoted as saying they were happy to receive alternative treatments, but the trouble is that it ceased to be an issue decades ago now, so even JWs research site doesn't go back far enough.


You know as well as I do that there are no such cases.

No Anna, there were no such cases in court, however I do know that it happened time and again.

In fact I cam even speak from personal experience on this.

My eldest boy Raimond needed his tonsils out, back in 1986 or 7, and the local hospital downright refused to treat him without blood. The surgeon was more than happy to let him continue to choke rather than agree to alternative treatment.

However we were pointed to a fellow Witness who is, or was, a Harley Street physician, and who gave us a treatment regime, free of charge, that would sort the problem out, and it did.

Raimond still has his tonsils, but they o longer cause him any problems.

Apparently Brother Nigel Vukovich now runs a homeopathic clinic in St Abans.

http://st-albans.cylex-uk.co.uk...

I'll never forget his name, I owe him for sorting out my son.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 5:26:21 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 4:40:09 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 6/2/2016 4:05:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:29:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

Give an example of a JW who (1) refused a blood transfusion, then (2) upon his/her refusal was refused any alternative form of treatment whatsoever. After all, you've told us that such a thing happened.

Sorry, you'll have to take my word for it.

It happened, many times. I know it did, and that is all that matters.

What's your opinion on mosquitos.
Could the correct amount of mosquitos and leaches send you straight to hell.
Did your god invent the mosquito. ?

I have no opinion on them at all.

Whatever Jehovah has created he created for a purpose, even if we don't know what that purpose was.

The one thing I do know was that they were never intended to be a problem a they often are now.

For all the advances in medicine we seem to get a new disease every year at the moment.

Probably that too is all a part of the sign Jesus gave us.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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6/2/2016 5:39:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 5:22:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 4:21:02 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 4:05:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:29:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

Give an example of a JW who (1) refused a blood transfusion, then (2) upon his/her refusal was refused any alternative form of treatment whatsoever. After all, you've told us that such a thing happened.

Sorry, you'll have to take my word for it.

Well, it seems to me that there would be some dandy court cases in which a JW said, "No, I refuse a blood transfusion" to which the reply, in word and/or deed, was "Well, then we aren't going to treat you at all."

Why would there be a court case over it?

Since when did hospitals take JWs to court to force transfusions on them?

No, these things never reached court, and JWs are not great litigators, they will simply wait until the resurrection to see their loved ones again.

There have been enough reports in the press about it with the JWs being quoted as saying they were happy to receive alternative treatments, but the trouble is that it ceased to be an issue decades ago now, so even JWs research site doesn't go back far enough.


You know as well as I do that there are no such cases.

No Anna, there were no such cases in court, however I do know that it happened time and again.

In fact I cam even speak from personal experience on this.

My eldest boy Raimond needed his tonsils out, back in 1986 or 7, and the local hospital downright refused to treat him without blood. The surgeon was more than happy to let him continue to choke rather than agree to alternative treatment.

A tonsillectomy requires a blood transfusion? LMAO.

No, what they WANTED was simply permission on the outside chance that hemorrhage became extreme, i. e. the boy was dying from blood loss, and they couldn't stop it. Your position was, "Go ahead and do the tonsillectomy - but in the unlikely event that you are forced to choose between (1) death from blood loss or (2) a blood transfusion, I'll take death."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Redfordnutt
Posts: 222
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6/2/2016 5:45:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:00:42 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 2:01:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:37:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

The upsurge in Bloodless Surgery, plus the experience of Dr Denton Cooley, of the Texas Heart Institute, and one of the worlds top heart surgeons proves otherwise.

Why do you think teh blood issue never hits the headlines any more?

Because it isn't an issue any longer and even the medical profession tacitly admits that by providing the alternatives, as you would know if you checked out "bloodless surgery" and "bloodless medicine" on Google.

People just don't die for lack of transfusions any more. Because hospitals cooperate now where they didn't before.

Like so many things you simply don't want to admit it, but one day you will have to face the truth.

The sooner the better for your sake.

Or are you one of those who, at Armageddon will shake your fist at the sky and say "No God, you are wrong"?

Should medical staff accommodate the illogical and faith based position of every patient regarding medicene and treatment?

What if someone needed to have a massive gash sewn up, but it is his faith based opinion that he should only accept treatment from Albino men?

Should we be expected to accommodate his faith based position?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/2/2016 6:13:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 5:45:58 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:00:42 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 2:01:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:37:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 1:13:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:50:08 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 11:21:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 10:52:32 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

The upsurge in Bloodless Surgery, plus the experience of Dr Denton Cooley, of the Texas Heart Institute, and one of the worlds top heart surgeons proves otherwise.

Why do you think teh blood issue never hits the headlines any more?

Because it isn't an issue any longer and even the medical profession tacitly admits that by providing the alternatives, as you would know if you checked out "bloodless surgery" and "bloodless medicine" on Google.

People just don't die for lack of transfusions any more. Because hospitals cooperate now where they didn't before.

Like so many things you simply don't want to admit it, but one day you will have to face the truth.

The sooner the better for your sake.

Or are you one of those who, at Armageddon will shake your fist at the sky and say "No God, you are wrong"?

Should medical staff accommodate the illogical and faith based position of every patient regarding medicene and treatment?

Yes, whatever they may be.

They don;t stop to consider the emotional, and psychological damage they do by forcing people to go against their faith.

I will never, ever forget the case of the 14 year old sister who insisted on non blood treatment, but when she woke in the night she found a blood bag by here bed ad an intravenous line into her arm.

She was so upset that she simply ripped the line out of her arm, and unfortunately bled to death.

I have known young sisters who have likened it to violent rape, a violation of their bodies, and we all know the psychological damage that can do.

Anyone should have the right to control what goes into their bodies.


What if someone needed to have a massive gash sewn up, but it is his faith based opinion that he should only accept treatment from Albino men?

Then his conviction, no matter how daft you consider it to be should be respected.

Don't forget that some faiths refuse any medical intervention whatever. Funny how few people take them to task over it. I wonder how many have died because of that stand?

But, as usual, just as in the 1st century, Jehovah's servants are singled out.


Should we be expected to accommodate his faith based position?

Of course.

Take your example from Jehovah.

He is not forcing any to take his side of the issue.

True the choice makes the difference between life and death, but it is still the choice of the individual, and no-one has the right to force them to accept life under circumstances they are not happy with.
MadCornishBiker
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6/2/2016 6:19:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 5:39:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 5:22:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 4:21:02 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 4:05:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:29:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/2/2016 3:20:32 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


As far as I am aware, from medical textbooks, the main need for transfusion is blood volume, and that can be equally well catered fro by Saline solution and any of the multitude of alternatives. That is why Saline Solution is so widely used as a volume expander, even when matched blood is used later.

The above is a statement made in complete ignorance. You don't know the difference between what you call "blood volume" ... and fluid volume.

In the case of the circulatory system they are exactly the same thing, also known as circulatory volume.

I guess you are thinking about haematocrit levels and getting them confused in your ignorance.

I am a long way from ignorant .....

Dude, you are even ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant. Thousands upon thousands of deluded WatchTowerite men, women, and children have kicked the bucket prematurely for the simple reason that they refused blood transfusions.

No Anna they died because they were refused alternative treatments, simple as.

They weren't "refused alternative treatments". The alternatives didn't work, nor were they expected to.

Oh they were Anna, as many have been.

JWs like all humans don;t want to die before their time and have always been open to scripturally acceptable alternatives, and the Hospital Liaison Committee has long supported them in that.

Even if the hospitals didn't think the alternatives would work, why did they not supply that treatment and thus absolve themselves of the blame that accrues to simply refusing as they did?

It would have made sense, then they could have said "I told you so". but no, they preferred to let them die for want of any treatment whatever.

Simple as.

Give an example of a JW who (1) refused a blood transfusion, then (2) upon his/her refusal was refused any alternative form of treatment whatsoever. After all, you've told us that such a thing happened.

Sorry, you'll have to take my word for it.

Well, it seems to me that there would be some dandy court cases in which a JW said, "No, I refuse a blood transfusion" to which the reply, in word and/or deed, was "Well, then we aren't going to treat you at all."

Why would there be a court case over it?

Since when did hospitals take JWs to court to force transfusions on them?

No, these things never reached court, and JWs are not great litigators, they will simply wait until the resurrection to see their loved ones again.

There have been enough reports in the press about it with the JWs being quoted as saying they were happy to receive alternative treatments, but the trouble is that it ceased to be an issue decades ago now, so even JWs research site doesn't go back far enough.


You know as well as I do that there are no such cases.

No Anna, there were no such cases in court, however I do know that it happened time and again.

In fact I cam even speak from personal experience on this.

My eldest boy Raimond needed his tonsils out, back in 1986 or 7, and the local hospital downright refused to treat him without blood. The surgeon was more than happy to let him continue to choke rather than agree to alternative treatment.

A tonsillectomy requires a blood transfusion? LMAO.

No, what they WANTED was simply permission on the outside chance that hemorrhage became extreme, i. e. the boy was dying from blood loss, and they couldn't stop it. Your position was, "Go ahead and do the tonsillectomy - but in the unlikely event that you are forced to choose between (1) death from blood loss or (2) a blood transfusion, I'll take death."

I am telling you what they told my wife.

You weren't there, therefore you cannot know.

But we would not be accepting death, but life in Jehovah's New System.

As I said to someone who challenged me on a similar topic over my sons, I don;t worry about them going to sleep overnight because I am confident they will wake up. Why then should I worry about them going to sleep until after Armageddon knowing they will be wakened then to enjoy an immeasurably better life? Why would I want to deny them that life?

No, I feel far worse missing them now knowing that their chances of being there after Armageddon are very slim indeed, and getting slimmer every day.

Again all you are showing is your complete lack of the faith you pretend to hold.

I shall continue to rely on the blood of Jesus, I don't need the blood of any other man.

You can rely on the blood of men if you wish, you have already rejected the blood of Christ by your lack of faith and your disobedience.