Total Posts:59|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Christians

harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie, and look what it says about Jews in 1st Thessalonians 2:15:
"For the Jews killed the prophets and even killed the Lord Jesus. Now they have persecuted us, too. They fail to please God and work against all humanity."

Jews work against all of humanity? Now you see why Christianity has such a great history of sexism and anti-Semitism, and this is the aame religion that says G-d is three, and that Adolf Hitler is in heaven while Muhatma Ghandi is in hell, excuse me? Well yeah, salvation is achieved through grace not works remember? Hitler accepted Jesus so he is in heaven while Ghandi was a Hindu so he is in hell.

Wow, what a loving G-d, for G-d so loved the world that he sent them all to hell; amazing hate, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like Hitler, but Ghandi is in hell, because he didn't worship a man as G-d.


Now let me just explain to you how evil this is, and how contradictory it is to the Torah:

The Torah on sexism; Genesis 1:27:
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Before this, man had a dual gender, and for this reason any references to Adam before actually was "the person" in Hebrew. Gender neutral. In fact, Proverbs 4 describes wisdom in the feminine, I.e. women are wiser than men, and if you want to read up on Deborah and Sarai, you will find that women were not prevented from speaking or required to submit to their husbands. Oh course in some circumstances they were, just like in Genesis 21:12 Avram is required to submit to his wife.

The Torah and Antisemitism; Genesis 12:3:
"And I will bless those who bless you and whoever curses you I will curse and all the families of the world I will bless through you."
And if you want to see Jeremiah 30:16-17 you will find that there is a harsh punishment for anyone who declares war on the Nation of Israel.

The Torah on salvation and people of other faiths; Ezekiel 18:3-4, 21-23:
"As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. 4 For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child"both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die........
"But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"


These verses first lay out that all people belong to G-d, then that only people who sin (as a habit and not a few screw ups) will die (go to hell), then that you are forgiven by first turning from evil and to the best of your ability living a godly life, then by doing good to atone for the evil you done before, it finally establishes that G-d takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and wishes they all repent and live.

The Torah on worshiping men as G-d; Jeremiah 17:5-7:

"This is what the Lord says: Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the Lord. That person will be like a bush in the wastelands; they will not see prosperity when it comes.
They will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives.
But blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in him."

If you read Isaiah 43:11 you find that there is no savior aside from G-d, there is no mention of any Jesus.

The Torah on the Trinity; Deuteronomy 6:4:
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."
This was apparently such an important concept to understand that it is the first sentence of the Shema of Israel, maybe because G-d knew that thousands of years after the Torah some idol worshippers would tell the Jews that G-d is three. There are also many more verses like this one, such as Isaiah 45:5 which says that there are no other G-d's but him.

Upon examining these verses, I think you will find that I have demonstrated Judaism a far more morally inclined religion than Christianity, and I ask any Christians reading this to stop worshipping a man as G-d and begin following the laws of Noah:

1. Do not deny G-d, and worship no other G-d aside from him.
2. Do not blaspheme G-d or desecrate his name by misrepresenting him or otherwise.
3. Do not murder.
4. Do not engage in illicit sexual relations, maintain the holiness of marriage.
5. Do not steal.
6. Do not be cruel to animals.
7. Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to the law.

Don't worry about number seven that has already been fulfilled, all in all Christians follow these laws already except number one, by worshipping Jesus as G-d.

Jeremiah 10:15:
"They are worthless, a work of mockery; In the time of their punishment they will perish."

Jonah 2:8:
"Those who cling to worthless idols turn away from God's love for them."

1st Samuel 12:21:
"Do not turn away after useless idols. They can do you no good, nor can they rescue you, because they are useless."
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Christianity has such a great history of sexism and anti-Semitism, and this is the same religion that says G-d is three, and that Adolf Hitler is in heaven while Muhatma Ghandi is in hell, excuse me? Well yeah, salvation is achieved through grace not works remember? Hitler accepted Jesus so he is in heaven while Ghandi was a Hindu so he is in hell.
Christianity seems to have begun as a Hellenicised Judaic reform movement, and got Romanised to ride the coattails of a failing empire. In doing so it lost contact with Judaic history, and I suspect that many of the early church fathers who selected and interpreted Christian canon had neither the cultural knowledge nor the historical skill to make much sense of it.

I agree that what Christianity has done to Judaism is enormously insensitive, and I don't think Christians realise just how ignorant and insulting some of their theological claims are. However in fairness, the Judaism at the time was not the humanistic philosophy/life stance we see in modern Judaism today. It was in dire need of reform -- reform which happened later in any case.

So perhaps there weren't really any good guys. Just a lot of confused, unjust and cruel guys. But you're right to raise it, Harry.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 5:31:42 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Christianity has such a great history of sexism and anti-Semitism, and this is the same religion that says G-d is three, and that Adolf Hitler is in heaven while Muhatma Ghandi is in hell, excuse me? Well yeah, salvation is achieved through grace not works remember? Hitler accepted Jesus so he is in heaven while Ghandi was a Hindu so he is in hell.
Christianity seems to have begun as a Hellenicised Judaic reform movement, and got Romanised to ride the coattails of a failing empire. In doing so it lost contact with Judaic history, and I suspect that many of the early church fathers who selected and interpreted Christian canon had neither the cultural knowledge nor the historical skill to make much sense of it.

I agree that what Christianity has done to Judaism is enormously insensitive, and I don't think Christians realise just how ignorant and insulting some of their theological claims are. However in fairness, the Judaism at the time was not the humanistic philosophy/life stance we see in modern Judaism today. It was in dire need of reform -- reform which happened later in any case.

So perhaps there weren't really any good guys. Just a lot of confused, unjust and cruel guys. But you're right to raise it, Harry.

Hmmmm, no, it was just about the same, all these beliefs go back to the founding of Judaism.
Rukado
Posts: 527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 6:50:31 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
However in fairness, the Judaism at the time was not the humanistic philosophy/life stance we see in modern Judaism today. It was in dire need of reform -- reform which happened later in any case.

What humanistic philosophy? How Jews of the state of Israel treat their neighbors? How the Jews of the Supreme Court treat the Constitution and Americans? How Jewish bankers treat the people? How the Jews treated Jesus... oh wait, this last one is before the later reform.

Anyone wanting to understand later Jewish reform should read the Talmud. Or, just consider the antichrist hate of the OP.
tarantula
Posts: 849
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 7:15:25 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
I would hang a man by his dangly bits from the nearest church steeple if he expected me to be silent and submissive, LOL!
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,861
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 7:19:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie, and look what it says about Jews in 1st Thessalonians 2:15:
"For the Jews killed the prophets and even killed the Lord Jesus. Now they have persecuted us, too. They fail to please God and work against all humanity."

Jews work against all of humanity? Now you see why Christianity has such a great history of sexism and anti-Semitism, and this is the aame religion that says G-d is three, and that Adolf Hitler is in heaven while Muhatma Ghandi is in hell, excuse me? Well yeah, salvation is achieved through grace not works remember? Hitler accepted Jesus so he is in heaven while Ghandi was a Hindu so he is in hell.

Wow, what a loving G-d, for G-d so loved the world that he sent them all to hell; amazing hate, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like Hitler, but Ghandi is in hell, because he didn't worship a man as G-d.



Now let me just explain to you how evil this is, and how contradictory it is to the Torah:


The Torah on sexism; Genesis 1:27:
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Before this, man had a dual gender, and for this reason any references to Adam before actually was "the person" in Hebrew. Gender neutral. In fact, Proverbs 4 describes wisdom in the feminine, I.e. women are wiser than men, and if you want to read up on Deborah and Sarai, you will find that women were not prevented from speaking or required to submit to their husbands. Oh course in some circumstances they were, just like in Genesis 21:12 Avram is required to submit to his wife.


The Torah and Antisemitism; Genesis 12:3:
"And I will bless those who bless you and whoever curses you I will curse and all the families of the world I will bless through you."
And if you want to see Jeremiah 30:16-17 you will find that there is a harsh punishment for anyone who declares war on the Nation of Israel.


The Torah on salvation and people of other faiths; Ezekiel 18:3-4, 21-23:
"As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. 4 For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child"both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die........
"But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"


These verses first lay out that all people belong to G-d, then that only people who sin (as a habit and not a few screw ups) will die (go to hell), then that you are forgiven by first turning from evil and to the best of your ability living a godly life, then by doing good to atone for the evil you done before, it finally establishes that G-d takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and wishes they all repent and live.


The Torah on worshiping men as G-d; Jeremiah 17:5-7:

"This is what the Lord says: Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the Lord. That person will be like a bush in the wastelands; they will not see prosperity when it comes.
They will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives.
But blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in him."

If you read Isaiah 43:11 you find that there is no savior aside from G-d, there is no mention of any Jesus.


The Torah on the Trinity; Deuteronomy 6:4:
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."
This was apparently such an important concept to understand that it is the first sentence of the Shema of Israel, maybe because G-d knew that thousands of years after the Torah some idol worshippers would tell the Jews that G-d is three. There are also many more verses like this one, such as Isaiah 45:5 which says that there are no other G-d's but him.


Upon examining these verses, I think you will find that I have demonstrated Judaism a far more morally inclined religion than Christianity, and I ask any Christians reading this to stop worshipping a man as G-d and begin following the laws of Noah:

1. Do not deny G-d, and worship no other G-d aside from him.
2. Do not blaspheme G-d or desecrate his name by misrepresenting him or otherwise.
3. Do not murder.
4. Do not engage in illicit sexual relations, maintain the holiness of marriage.
5. Do not steal.
6. Do not be cruel to animals.
7. Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to the law.

Don't worry about number seven that has already been fulfilled, all in all Christians follow these laws already except number one, by worshipping Jesus as G-d.

Jeremiah 10:15:
"They are worthless, a work of mockery; In the time of their punishment they will perish."

Jonah 2:8:
"Those who cling to worthless idols turn away from God's love for them."

1st Samuel 12:21:
"Do not turn away after useless idols. They can do you no good, nor can they rescue you, because they are useless."
Yeah, God should have nailed a woman to the cross to show how anti woman the bible is. Or have a woman walk through the desert for 40 days without food instead of having a man do it to show how much women are hated. Maybe make the apostles of Jesus half women so they could be tried and killed for believing the Jesus story instead of just killing men. Dam sexist God and all that woman torturing....
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 9:28:14 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 6:50:31 AM, Rukado wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
However in fairness, the Judaism at the time was not the humanistic philosophy/life stance we see in modern Judaism today. It was in dire need of reform -- reform which happened later in any case.

What humanistic philosophy? How Jews of the state of Israel treat their neighbors? How the Jews of the Supreme Court treat the Constitution and Americans? How Jewish bankers treat the people? How the Jews treated Jesus... oh wait, this last one is before the later reform.

Ooh. Strawmen! Let's count them, shall we?

Please don't let replying to the substantive content of my post get in the way of your unrelated hatred, Rukado.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 9:44:23 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 5:31:42 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Christianity has such a great history of sexism and anti-Semitism, and this is the same religion that says G-d is three, and that Adolf Hitler is in heaven while Muhatma Ghandi is in hell, excuse me? Well yeah, salvation is achieved through grace not works remember? Hitler accepted Jesus so he is in heaven while Ghandi was a Hindu so he is in hell.
I agree that what Christianity has done to Judaism is enormously insensitive, and I don't think Christians realise just how ignorant and insulting some of their theological claims are. However in fairness, the Judaism at the time was not the humanistic philosophy/life stance we see in modern Judaism today. It was in dire need of reform -- reform which happened later in any case.

So perhaps there weren't really any good guys. Just a lot of confused, unjust and cruel guys. But you're right to raise it, Harry.

Hmmmm, no, it was just about the same, all these beliefs go back to the founding of Judaism.

Except for Conservative and Reform Judaism which represent the majority of sectarian Jews in places like the US and appeared... y'know... much later.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 12:18:04 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Christianity has such a great history of sexism and anti-Semitism, and this is the same religion that says G-d is three, and that Adolf Hitler is in heaven while Muhatma Ghandi is in hell, excuse me? Well yeah, salvation is achieved through grace not works remember? Hitler accepted Jesus so he is in heaven while Ghandi was a Hindu so he is in hell.
Christianity seems to have begun as a Hellenicised Judaic reform movement, and got Romanised to ride the coattails of a failing empire. In doing so it lost contact with Judaic history, and I suspect that many of the early church fathers who selected and interpreted Christian canon had neither the cultural knowledge nor the historical skill to make much sense of it.

I agree that what Christianity has done to Judaism is enormously insensitive, and I don't think Christians realise just how ignorant and insulting some of their theological claims are. However in fairness, the Judaism at the time was not the humanistic philosophy/life stance we see in modern Judaism today. It was in dire need of reform -- reform which happened later in any case.

So perhaps there weren't really any good guys. Just a lot of confused, unjust and cruel guys. But you're right to raise it, Harry.
+1 - The news that circulated about Christ, (mostly his teachings) through secret gatherings and writings both quoting him and relaying info about his real message, were circulating in both Judaic and "gentile" communities and the early centuries. It was and is the leaders of "religions" that seek to control doctrine and pervert the message of truth.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 2:32:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 9:44:23 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:31:42 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Christianity has such a great history of sexism and anti-Semitism, and this is the same religion that says G-d is three, and that Adolf Hitler is in heaven while Muhatma Ghandi is in hell, excuse me? Well yeah, salvation is achieved through grace not works remember? Hitler accepted Jesus so he is in heaven while Ghandi was a Hindu so he is in hell.
I agree that what Christianity has done to Judaism is enormously insensitive, and I don't think Christians realise just how ignorant and insulting some of their theological claims are. However in fairness, the Judaism at the time was not the humanistic philosophy/life stance we see in modern Judaism today. It was in dire need of reform -- reform which happened later in any case.

So perhaps there weren't really any good guys. Just a lot of confused, unjust and cruel guys. But you're right to raise it, Harry.

Hmmmm, no, it was just about the same, all these beliefs go back to the founding of Judaism.

Except for Conservative and Reform Judaism which represent the majority of sectarian Jews in places like the US and appeared... y'know... much later.

I meant Orthodox Judaism, and there was nothing unjust about them.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 2:37:02 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 6:50:31 AM, Rukado wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
However in fairness, the Judaism at the time was not the humanistic philosophy/life stance we see in modern Judaism today. It was in dire need of reform -- reform which happened later in any case.

What humanistic philosophy? How Jews of the state of Israel treat their neighbors? How the Jews of the Supreme Court treat the Constitution and Americans? How Jewish bankers treat the people? How the Jews treated Jesus... oh wait, this last one is before the later reform.

Anyone wanting to understand later Jewish reform should read the Talmud. Or, just consider the antichrist hate of the OP.

The Jews of Irael don't mistreat their neighbors, there are no Jews on the supreme Court to the best if my knowledge, and yes the Rosthchilds are evil, but don't make a judgement about Jews based on those scum. and whose the OP. Also, so don't believe in the Talmud, I'm a Quarite.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 2:38:22 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 7:15:25 AM, tarantula wrote:
I would hang a man by his dangly bits from the nearest church steeple if he expected me to be silent and submissive, LOL!

Yeah in Judaism it's banned, forcing your wife into submission as well as hanging someone by his dangly bits.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 3:11:29 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 2:38:22 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/4/2016 7:15:25 AM, tarantula wrote:
I would hang a man by his dangly bits from the nearest church steeple if he expected me to be silent and submissive, LOL!

Yeah in Judaism it's banned, forcing your wife into submission as well as hanging someone by his dangly bits.
Yes of course, all of your chattels are afforded the opportunity of self determination, it's why the dish ran away with the spoon.
I love fairy tales.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Rukado
Posts: 527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 6:46:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 2:37:02 PM, harrytruman wrote:
The Jews of Irael don't mistreat their neighbors, there are no Jews on the supreme Court to the best if my knowledge, and yes the Rosthchilds are evil, but don't make a judgement about Jews based on those scum. and whose the OP. Also, so don't believe in the Talmud, I'm a Quarite.

Naw, occupying their land and administering communal punishment isn't mistreatment, not in the eyes of a judao-nazi. There are three declared Jews (zero Protestants) on the Supreme Court, and Obama has chosen a fourth.

For general Jewish identity, using the Old Testament to show what Jews believe is the same as using the Old Testament to show what Muslims believe. It's ignorant of gentiles and dishonest of Jews. If the OP weren't bullsh!t, it would use the Talmud to explain "Jewish" values.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 1:02:21 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 2:32:24 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/4/2016 9:44:23 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:31:42 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Perhaps there weren't really any good guys. Just a lot of confused, unjust and cruel guys. But you're right to raise it, Harry.
Hmmmm, no, it was just about the same, all these beliefs go back to the founding of Judaism.
Except for Conservative and Reform Judaism which represent the majority of sectarian Jews in places like the US and appeared... y'know... much later.
I meant Orthodox Judaism, and there was nothing unjust about them.
Jews following orthodox teachings cannot be unjust, Harry, or cannot detect injustice outside their doctrine because doctrinal orthodoxy doesn't permit the freedom to do so?
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 1:15:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 1:02:21 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 2:32:24 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/4/2016 9:44:23 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:31:42 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Perhaps there weren't really any good guys. Just a lot of confused, unjust and cruel guys. But you're right to raise it, Harry.
Hmmmm, no, it was just about the same, all these beliefs go back to the founding of Judaism.
Except for Conservative and Reform Judaism which represent the majority of sectarian Jews in places like the US and appeared... y'know... much later.
I meant Orthodox Judaism, and there was nothing unjust about them.
Jews following orthodox teachings cannot be unjust, Harry, or cannot detect injustice outside their doctrine because doctrinal orthodoxy doesn't permit the freedom to do so?

The first one.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 1:48:07 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 1:15:37 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 1:02:21 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 2:32:24 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/4/2016 9:44:23 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:31:42 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/4/2016 5:14:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Perhaps there weren't really any good guys. Just a lot of confused, unjust and cruel guys. But you're right to raise it, Harry.
Hmmmm, no, it was just about the same, all these beliefs go back to the founding of Judaism.
Except for Conservative and Reform Judaism which represent the majority of sectarian Jews in places like the US and appeared... y'know... much later.
I meant Orthodox Judaism, and there was nothing unjust about them.
Jews following orthodox teachings cannot be unjust, Harry, or cannot detect injustice outside their doctrine because doctrinal orthodoxy doesn't permit the freedom to do so?
The first one.
But if orthodox Judaism is ignorant or in error on any matter, then it risks the second simply because you've just now illustrated this problem?
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 11:45:25 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie.

Unfortunately, this dude is ignorant of the Law, for the law is clear as to the roles of men and women. See Gen 1.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 4:53:03 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 11:45:25 AM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie.


Unfortunately, this dude is ignorant of the Law, for the law is clear as to the roles of men and women. See Gen 1.

Yeah, men and woman created in the image of G-d, what else?
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 5:08:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 4:53:03 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 11:45:25 AM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie.


Unfortunately, this dude is ignorant of the Law, for the law is clear as to the roles of men and women. See Gen 1.

Yeah, men and woman created in the image of G-d, what else?

No, I mean all of Gen 1, just like I said. Surely, you have more than intellectual dishonesty?
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 6:07:35 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 5:08:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 4:53:03 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 11:45:25 AM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie.


Unfortunately, this dude is ignorant of the Law, for the law is clear as to the roles of men and women. See Gen 1.

Yeah, men and woman created in the image of G-d, what else?

No, I mean all of Gen 1, just like I said. Surely, you have more than intellectual dishonesty?

What about it?
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 6:18:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 6:07:35 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 5:08:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 4:53:03 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 11:45:25 AM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie.


Unfortunately, this dude is ignorant of the Law, for the law is clear as to the roles of men and women. See Gen 1.

Yeah, men and woman created in the image of G-d, what else?

No, I mean all of Gen 1, just like I said. Surely, you have more than intellectual dishonesty?

What about it?

Fitst of all, you do realize Genesis 1 is part of the Law, right?
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 6:53:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 6:18:15 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:07:35 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 5:08:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 4:53:03 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 11:45:25 AM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie.


Unfortunately, this dude is ignorant of the Law, for the law is clear as to the roles of men and women. See Gen 1.

Yeah, men and woman created in the image of G-d, what else?

No, I mean all of Gen 1, just like I said. Surely, you have more than intellectual dishonesty?

What about it?

Fitst of all, you do realize Genesis 1 is part of the Law, right?

It is part of the Torah yes, but what does it have to say about gender roles? I read it, it only says that men and women are equal.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 6:59:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 6:53:49 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:18:15 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:07:35 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 5:08:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 4:53:03 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 11:45:25 AM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie.


Unfortunately, this dude is ignorant of the Law, for the law is clear as to the roles of men and women. See Gen 1.

Yeah, men and woman created in the image of G-d, what else?

No, I mean all of Gen 1, just like I said. Surely, you have more than intellectual dishonesty?

What about it?

Fitst of all, you do realize Genesis 1 is part of the Law, right?


It is part of the Torah yes, but what does it have to say about gender roles? I read it, it only says that men and women are equal.

Apparently you did not read it, because it does not say that. But what does it say about who was created first?
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 7:08:00 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 6:59:46 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:53:49 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:18:15 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:07:35 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 5:08:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 4:53:03 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 11:45:25 AM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie.


Unfortunately, this dude is ignorant of the Law, for the law is clear as to the roles of men and women. See Gen 1.

Yeah, men and woman created in the image of G-d, what else?

No, I mean all of Gen 1, just like I said. Surely, you have more than intellectual dishonesty?

What about it?

Fitst of all, you do realize Genesis 1 is part of the Law, right?


It is part of the Torah yes, but what does it have to say about gender roles? I read it, it only says that men and women are equal.

Apparently you did not read it, because it does not say that. But what does it say about who was created first?

You misunderstand, 'adam in Hebrew only means human being, no gender is implied, basically Adam was originally a gender dual being who was separated into male ('iysh) and female (neqebah) if man was created ed first it would say ish, not Adam.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 7:15:06 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 7:08:00 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:59:46 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:53:49 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:18:15 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 6:07:35 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 5:08:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/5/2016 4:53:03 PM, harrytruman wrote:
At 6/5/2016 11:45:25 AM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
According to the Non-Testament in 1st Corinthians 14:34 women should be silent in church and be submissive to their husbands:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

It turns out there is no law which says this, it's a lie.


Unfortunately, this dude is ignorant of the Law, for the law is clear as to the roles of men and women. See Gen 1.

Yeah, men and woman created in the image of G-d, what else?

No, I mean all of Gen 1, just like I said. Surely, you have more than intellectual dishonesty?

What about it?

Fitst of all, you do realize Genesis 1 is part of the Law, right?


It is part of the Torah yes, but what does it have to say about gender roles? I read it, it only says that men and women are equal.

Apparently you did not read it, because it does not say that. But what does it say about who was created first?

You misunderstand, 'adam in Hebrew only means human being, no gender is implied, basically Adam was originally a gender dual being who was separated into male ('iysh) and female (neqebah) if man was created ed first it would say ish, not Adam.

ROFL. I knew I would eventually expose this dude's presuppositions as both extra- and anti-biblical. The reason why he doesn't understand what the New Testament means is because he is ignorant of what the Old Testament means. Moving on.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 7:17:57 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
You misunderstand, 'adam in Hebrew only means human being, no gender is implied, basically Adam was originally a gender dual being who was separated into male ('iysh) and female (neqebah) if man was created ed first it would say ish, not Adam.

ROFL. I knew I would eventually expose this dude's presuppositions as both extra- and anti-biblical. The reason why he doesn't understand what the New Testament means is because he is ignorant of what the Old Testament means. Moving on.

Excuse me? What are You talking about, this is what it says, go read your Hebrew.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 8:15:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Well yeah, salvation is achieved through grace not works remember? Hitler accepted Jesus so he is in heaven while Ghandi was a Hindu so he is in hell.

I think you have some good points; however I think you should notice:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

Eternal life is for righteous according to Jesus. I think that is in line with OT and "Christians" should believe Jesus, if they are truly his disciples.

.Also it would be reasonable for Christian to believe this saying from Jesus:

You heard how I told you, 'I go away, and I come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said 'I am going to my Father;' for the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

Jesus and the Bible don"t claim that Jesus is the one and only true God. Bible claims that Jesus is God"s temple, God lives in him as He lives in disciples of Jesus.

http://www.kolumbus.fi...

It is sad that Christians don"t seem to know what the Bible tells, also because that is why Jews get really bad and wrong idea about Jesus.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2016 9:24:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 8:15:58 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 6/4/2016 4:58:54 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Well yeah, salvation is achieved through grace not works remember? Hitler accepted Jesus so he is in heaven while Ghandi was a Hindu so he is in hell.

I think you have some good points; however I think you should notice:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

Eternal life is for righteous according to Jesus. I think that is in line with OT and "Christians" should believe Jesus, if they are truly his disciples.

.Also it would be reasonable for Christian to believe this saying from Jesus:

You heard how I told you, 'I go away, and I come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said 'I am going to my Father;' for the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

Jesus and the Bible don"t claim that Jesus is the one and only true God. Bible claims that Jesus is God"s temple, God lives in him as He lives in disciples of Jesus.

http://www.kolumbus.fi...

It is sad that Christians don"t seem to know what the Bible tells, also because that is why Jews get really bad and wrong idea about Jesus.

Now you are just citing contradictions within the Non-Testament, Mark 16:16:
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
John 3:18
"Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

John 3:36
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him."

And yes, the Non-Testament says Jesus is G-d, John 20:28-29:
"Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed;[that he is G-d] blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."


John 10:30:
"I and the Father are one."

Basically Jesus is saying he and G-d are the same thing, which contradicts the Torah in almost every way imaginable.

Numbers 23:19:
"God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?"

Then we find that Jesus is our foundation/ rock 1st Corinthians 3:11:
"For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ"

1st Samuel 2:2:
"There is no one holy like the Lord;
there is no one besides you;
there is no Rock like our God
."


We also find that Jesus was apparently sinless,
1 John 3:5:
"You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin."

2 Corinthians 5:21:
"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

1 Peter 2:22:
"He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth."

Again, completely contrary to the Torah, Ecclesiastes 7:20:
"Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins."

1st John 1:7:
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."

This contradicts Psalms 20:9:
"Who can say, "I have cleansed my heart, I am pure from my sin"?"

Ephesians 2:8:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"

Ezekiel 18:21-23 says otherwise:
"But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"

Romans 10:3:
"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

This contradicts Ezekiel 14:14:
"even if these three men--Noah, Daniel and Job--were in it, they could save only themselves by their own righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD."

http://www.beingjewish.com...
12_13
Posts: 1,361
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/6/2016 8:31:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 9:24:26 PM, harrytruman wrote:
Now you are just citing contradictions within the Non-Testament, Mark 16:16:
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
John 3:18
"Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

I think you just don"t understand what is said. There is no contradiction, when you understand it correctly.

Belief is not the actual reason for judgment. The reason is the sin. And if you don"t receive forgiveness (believe it) the sin remains and you will be judged by your sin.

Also it would be good to read what the Bible means with the judgment and not cherry pick lines partially to support dishonest claims.

This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God."
John 3:19-21

And yes, the Non-Testament says Jesus is G-d, John 20:28-29:
"Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed;[that he is G-d] blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."


No. Again, if you are honest, it says "My Lord and my God!". There are both, Lord the King, and God. Again, as Bible tells, God dwells in Jesus. So they were both there, Jesus and God in Jesus. That is why it is said:

"The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. "
John 14:10-14

John 10:30:
"I and the Father are one."

Basically Jesus is saying he and G-d are the same thing, which contradicts the Torah in almost every way imaginable.

No, he says they are one. And actually it is said that disciples of Jesus ("Christians") are also one with Jesus and God. It doesn"t mean that we all are gods. It means we have same will.

that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21

Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

We also find that Jesus was apparently sinless,
1 John 3:5:
"You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin."

And it is by God"s influence and because God lives in Jesus.

Most assuredly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does likewise.
John 5:19

And actually it can be said that sin means that person rejects or lives apart from God. If one is connected to God, he has no sin, even if he would make mistakes sometimes. Person can be righteous, sinless, even if he has made mistakes.

For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises up again; But the wicked are overthrown by calamity.
Pro. 24:16

1 Peter 2:22:
"He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth."

Again, completely contrary to the Torah, Ecclesiastes 7:20:
"Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins."

Ecclesiastes 7:20 is said by Solomon or some other human, not from God. And it may have been correct at that time. It doesn"t mean that someday there could be man that has not made any mistake.

1st John 1:7:
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."

This contradicts Psalms 20:9:
"Who can say, "I have cleansed my heart, I am pure from my sin"?"

1st John 1:7 doesn"t say "I have cleansed my heart" it says "the blood of Jesus"purifies". And I believe the blood means words of God, because:

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is useless. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
John 6:63

Truly, truly I tell you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death at all."
John. 8:51

Ephesians 2:8:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"

Ezekiel 18:21-23 says otherwise:
"But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"

OT and NT both confirm that righteousness is the key to life:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

If person is righteous, he does righteous acts. Therefore righteousness is important. But actions scan be made with impure heart and then they are not necessary righteous, even if they look like that.

Romans 10:3:
"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

This contradicts Ezekiel 14:14:
"even if these three men--Noah, Daniel and Job--were in it, they could save only themselves by their own righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD."

But their righteousness seems to be from God.