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Women in Isalm:

harrytruman
Posts: 812
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6/9/2016 5:22:19 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Bs"d
Did you know that Islam grants women the most rights of any religion? Just look at all these great rights Muslim women enjoy:
The right to get beat (Qur'an 4:34)
The right to get raped (Qur'an 2:223)
Oh and just look at how much respect they are given in the Qur'an, Bukhari 6:301:

"O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you"...
"[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence."
"[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion."
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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6/9/2016 9:50:49 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 5:22:19 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Bs"d
Did you know that Islam grants women the most rights of any religion? Just look at all these great rights Muslim women enjoy:
The right to get beat (Qur'an 4:34)

why on earth the men would beat their beloved wives?

The right to get raped (Qur'an 2:223)

No, rape is not permitted in Islam.

Oh and just look at how much respect they are given in the Qur'an, Bukhari 6:301:

"O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you"...
"[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence."
"[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion."


Would we blame the anchors just because they deliver the bad news?
Prophet foretold us the majority of inhabitants in hell. He saw women are the majority. We can not blame his vision just because we do pro women.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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6/10/2016 12:46:00 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
why on earth the men would beat their beloved wives?

Muslims don't love their wives.

The right to get raped (Qur'an 2:223)

No, rape is not permitted in Islam.

Wives that is, marital rape is still rape ya know?

Oh and just look at how much respect they are given in the Qur'an, Bukhari 6:301:

"O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you"...
"[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence."
"[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion."


Would we blame the anchors just because they deliver the bad news?
Prophet foretold us the majority of inhabitants in hell. He saw women are the majority. We can not blame his vision just because we do pro women.

He said they're dumb.
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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6/10/2016 3:07:26 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/10/2016 12:46:00 AM, harrytruman wrote:
why on earth the men would beat their beloved wives?

Muslims don't love their wives.

Prove it.


The right to get raped (Qur'an 2:223)

No, rape is not permitted in Islam.

Wives that is, marital rape is still rape ya know?

Which passage states marital rape?


Oh and just look at how much respect they are given in the Qur'an, Bukhari 6:301:

"O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you"...
"[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence."
"[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion."


Would we blame the anchors just because they deliver the bad news?
Prophet foretold us the majority of inhabitants in hell. He saw women are the majority. We can not blame his vision just because we do pro women.

He said they're dumb.

Which passage of the hadith that mentions 'dumb'?
harrytruman
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6/10/2016 3:32:26 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Prove it.

If they loved them they wouldn't beat them.

Which passage states marital rape?

Qur'an 2:223 says you can have sex with your wife with or without her consent, i.e. marital rape.

Which passage of the hadith that mentions 'dumb'?

Burkhari 6:301, "this is the deficiency in her intelligence."
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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6/10/2016 3:40:29 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/10/2016 3:32:26 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Prove it.


If they loved them they wouldn't beat them.

Do they beat their wives?


Which passage states marital rape?


Qur'an 2:223 says you can have sex with your wife with or without her consent, i.e. marital rape.


Quran 2:223
"Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers."

Which passage state marital rape?

Which passage of the hadith that mentions 'dumb'?

Burkhari 6:301, "this is the deficiency in her intelligence."

Is deficiency in intelligence means dumb?
Looncall
Posts: 454
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6/10/2016 2:40:05 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/10/2016 3:40:29 AM, uncung wrote:
At 6/10/2016 3:32:26 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Prove it.


If they loved them they wouldn't beat them.

Do they beat their wives?


Which passage states marital rape?


Qur'an 2:223 says you can have sex with your wife with or without her consent, i.e. marital rape.


Quran 2:223
"Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers."

Which passage state marital rape?

Which passage of the hadith that mentions 'dumb'?

Burkhari 6:301, "this is the deficiency in her intelligence."

Is deficiency in intelligence means dumb?

Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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6/10/2016 3:17:24 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

It still doesn't imply marital rape. husband may approach his wife in varied sex positions he wishes.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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6/10/2016 4:55:06 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/9/2016 5:22:19 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Bs"d
Did you know that Islam grants women the most rights of any religion? Just look at all these great rights Muslim women enjoy:
The right to get beat (Qur'an 4:34)
The right to get raped (Qur'an 2:223)
Oh and just look at how much respect they are given in the Qur'an, Bukhari 6:301:

"O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you"...
"[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence."
"[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion."


Response: No where in verse 2:223 is the word rape or anything synonymous to it mentioned. That shows that rape must be on your mind. Not in Islam. Debunked.

Verse 4:19 says women are to be treated with kindness and the Sunnah says that the hit should not be harmful or leave any pain or scars, nor in the face. That means a light tap. Now this is the part when your idiocy says that even if its a tap it is still wrong because no one likes to be hit, but that makes no sense. Its a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Therefore the punishment is just. Debunked.

Last, the hadith that says women are deficient in intelligence refers to the fact that women are not obligated to work. Therefore any women who chooses not to work, their knowledge of business transactions lacks in comparison and require more witnesses than men. Women also do not pray or fast during their menses because cleanliness is clearly the most appropriate way to give praise. That shows women are being respectful. Debunked as usual. Try again.
Fatihah
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6/10/2016 5:00:02 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 2:40:05 PM, Looncall wrote:

Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

Response: The verse says however you wish, along with other verses that says not to inherit women against their will and treat them kindly (4:19). Thus the context proves that "however you wish" refers to however you wish in a kind way. Debunked. Try again.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/10/2016 5:14:21 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 5:00:02 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:40:05 PM, Looncall wrote:

Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

Response: The verse says however you wish, along with other verses that says not to inherit women against their will and treat them kindly (4:19). Thus the context proves that "however you wish" refers to however you wish in a kind way. Debunked. Try again.

Which verses say that 6 year old children can show their like of sex, Fati, or did you just make that up yourself?
lightseeker
Posts: 1,025
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6/10/2016 5:47:32 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 12:46:00 AM, harrytruman wrote:
why on earth the men would beat their beloved wives?
Muslims don't love their wives.
wow, harry, didn't think you would be this big of a fool man.

by the way, harry, don't you know that
Orthodox Judaism Treats Women Like Filthy Little Things?
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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6/10/2016 7:28:11 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 5:47:32 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 6/10/2016 12:46:00 AM, harrytruman wrote:
why on earth the men would beat their beloved wives?
Muslims don't love their wives.
wow, harry, didn't think you would be this big of a fool man.

by the way, harry, don't you know that
Orthodox Judaism Treats Women Like Filthy Little Things?

Absurd, I provided verses for my claims, you didn't, if Muslims loved their wives,why would the beat them?
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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6/10/2016 7:35:58 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Response: No where in verse 2:223 is the word rape or anything synonymous to it mentioned. That shows that rape must be on your mind. Not in Islam. Debunked.

It constitutes rape as it allows you to.

Verse 4:19 says women are to be treated with kindness and the Sunnah says that the hit should not be harmful or leave any pain or scars, nor in the face. That means a light tap. Now this is the part when your idiocy says that even if its a tap it is still wrong because no one likes to be hit, but that makes no sense. Its a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Therefore the punishment is just. Debunked.

"O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good."
Nope, don't see that anywhere, besides, "beat them" is defined in Sahih Muslim 4.2127:
"When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet,.....
I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'............
He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath?.............
He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain,............"

"Beat" is defined as striking them in the chest and causing pain, there ya go.

Last, the hadith that says women are deficient in intelligence refers to the fact that women are not obligated to work. Therefore any women who chooses not to work, their knowledge of business transactions lacks in comparison and require more witnesses than men. Women also do not pray or fast during their menses because cleanliness is clearly the most appropriate way to give praise. That shows women are being respectful. Debunked as usual. Try again.

Women not allowed to work or handle finances in Islam? Wow, last I checked Proverbs 4 refers to wisdom itself in a feminine tense, and Proverbs 31 talks of women trading,
lightseeker
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6/10/2016 7:59:16 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 7:35:58 PM, harrytruman wrote:
Response: No where in verse 2:223 is the word rape or anything synonymous to it mentioned. That shows that rape must be on your mind. Not in Islam. Debunked.

It constitutes rape as it allows you to.

Verse 4:19 says women are to be treated with kindness and the Sunnah says that the hit should not be harmful or leave any pain or scars, nor in the face. That means a light tap. Now this is the part when your idiocy says that even if its a tap it is still wrong because no one likes to be hit, but that makes no sense. Its a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Therefore the punishment is just. Debunked.

"O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good."
Nope, don't see that anywhere, besides, "beat them" is defined in Sahih Muslim 4.2127:
"When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet,.....
I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'............
He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath?.............
He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain,............"

"Beat" is defined as striking them in the chest and causing pain, there ya go.


Last, the hadith that says women are deficient in intelligence refers to the fact that women are not obligated to work. Therefore any women who chooses not to work, their knowledge of business transactions lacks in comparison and require more witnesses than men. Women also do not pray or fast during their menses because cleanliness is clearly the most appropriate way to give praise. That shows women are being respectful. Debunked as usual. Try again.

Women not allowed to work or handle finances in Islam? Wow, last I checked Proverbs 4 refers to wisdom itself in a feminine tense, and Proverbs 31 talks of women trading,

you know harry, the problem is that you're not here to find answers, otherwise we could give it to you. you are simply a Jew who's OK with killing innocent women and children in Palestine and Gaza, have accepted that your kind has killed prophets of God and therefor have no right judging islam. take a look at this kid and find the role of women is orthodox Judaism:

"A daughter, commanded the sages, must not be taught Torah, because "the mind of woman is not suited to be taught, but [only] to words of nonsense." Women are light-minded and have little knowledge.

And if a man and a woman are drowning in a river, first they'll save the man, "who is obligated to perform more commandments," whereas a woman's "wisdom is only in the spindle." In fact, "words of Torah should be burned rather than being given to women."

A man must say three blessings every day during morning prayers: He thanks God "that He didn't make me a gentile, that He didn't make me a woman, that He didn't make me an ignoramus." And it's not proper to speak to a woman too much, since "all her conversation is nothing but words of adultery," and whoever talks to her too much "causes evil to himself and will end up inheriting hell." And let's not even talk about the fate of someone "who looks even at a woman's little finger."

The extremists who spit at women, who call themselves Sikarikim, learned their lesson 101 times and learned it well: A husband would do well not to let his wife go outside, into the street, and should restrict her outings "to once or twice a month, as necessary, since a woman has no beauty except by sitting in the corner of her house."

Because inside the house - very deep inside - her glorious honor awaits her: "Every woman washes her husband's face and feet and pours him a cup and prepares his bed and stands and serves her husband. And any woman who refrains from doing any of these tasks that she is obligated to perform - is forced to do them." Some recommend forcing her with a whip or by starvation "until she gives in."

And needless to say, she is at her husband's disposal whenever he is overcome by a desire "to satisfy his urges with her." And if she continues to rebel, he always has the right "to divorce her without her consent."

And there are many similar halakhot, only a few of which we have collected here. Nor have we cited everything in the name of the ones who said them, for lack of space. The readers are invited to find the references on Shabbat - and to browse around - on their own; this is a good opportunity for study. We will direct your attention to Tractate Shabbat, which does a good job of summing up halakha's attitude toward women: "a sack full of excrement" with a bleeding hole.

Some people will seek to console themselves: It's true that this is the halakha both m'doraita (from the Torah ) and m'drabanan (from the rabbis ), but that is not what is taught nowadays. But it suffices to listen to the sermon the sage Rabbi Ovadia Yosef delivered five years ago, based on the well-known halakhic work "Kitzur Shulchan Aruch": "A man must take care not to walk between two women or between two dogs or two pigs, and men should also not allow a woman or a dog or a pig to walk between them."

Treating women as impure and filthy begins with halakha and continues with actions. As long as the religious and ultra-Orthodox parties - Shas, United Torah Judaism, Habayit Hayehudi and National Union, none of which have any women in the Knesset - are not disqualified, their nakedness will continue to sing out and the nakedness of the land will be revealed. "
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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6/10/2016 9:27:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
you know harry, the problem is that you're not here to find answers, otherwise we could give it to you. you are simply a Jew who's OK with killing innocent women and children in Palestine and Gaza, have accepted that your kind has killed prophets of God and therefor have no right judging islam. take a look at this kid and find the role of women is orthodox Judaism:

Have you lost your mind? It is the MUSLIMS who are killing innocent women and children, and John the Baptist, Jesus, they were FALSE PROPHETS, G-d ordered false prophets be killed, the Romans did it instead because they didn't have the spines to obey G-d.

"A daughter, commanded the sages, must not be taught Torah, because "the mind of woman is not suited to be taught, but [only] to words of nonsense." Women are light-minded and have little knowledge.

And if a man and a woman are drowning in a river, first they'll save the man, "who is obligated to perform more commandments," whereas a woman's "wisdom is only in the spindle." In fact, "words of Torah should be burned rather than being given to women."

A man must say three blessings every day during morning prayers: He thanks God "that He didn't make me a gentile, that He didn't make me a woman, that He didn't make me an ignoramus." And it's not proper to speak to a woman too much, since "all her conversation is nothing but words of adultery," and whoever talks to her too much "causes evil to himself and will end up inheriting hell." And let's not even talk about the fate of someone "who looks even at a woman's little finger."

The extremists who spit at women, who call themselves Sikarikim, learned their lesson 101 times and learned it well: A husband would do well not to let his wife go outside, into the street, and should restrict her outings "to once or twice a month, as necessary, since a woman has no beauty except by sitting in the corner of her house."

Because inside the house - very deep inside - her glorious honor awaits her: "Every woman washes her husband's face and feet and pours him a cup and prepares his bed and stands and serves her husband. And any woman who refrains from doing any of these tasks that she is obligated to perform - is forced to do them." Some recommend forcing her with a whip or by starvation "until she gives in."

And needless to say, she is at her husband's disposal whenever he is overcome by a desire "to satisfy his urges with her." And if she continues to rebel, he always has the right "to divorce her without her consent."

And there are many similar halakhot, only a few of which we have collected here. Nor have we cited everything in the name of the ones who said them, for lack of space. The readers are invited to find the references on Shabbat - and to browse around - on their own; this is a good opportunity for study. We will direct your attention to Tractate Shabbat, which does a good job of summing up halakha's attitude toward women: "a sack full of excrement" with a bleeding hole.

Some people will seek to console themselves: It's true that this is the halakha both m'doraita (from the Torah ) and m'drabanan (from the rabbis ), but that is not what is taught nowadays. But it suffices to listen to the sermon the sage Rabbi Ovadia Yosef delivered five years ago, based on the well-known halakhic work "Kitzur Shulchan Aruch": "A man must take care not to walk between two women or between two dogs or two pigs, and men should also not allow a woman or a dog or a pig to walk between them."

Treating women as impure and filthy begins with halakha and continues with actions. As long as the religious and ultra-Orthodox parties - Shas, United Torah Judaism, Habayit Hayehudi and National Union, none of which have any women in the Knesset - are not disqualified, their nakedness will continue to sing out and the nakedness of the land will be revealed.

None of that crap is in the Torah, look, I know your false book and your false prophet say that it's OK t lie, but it really isn't, you are only verifying everything which I've said, you, and every follower of your religion, as well as your false prophet and false god, are all liars, I want no part of your religion, your whole Qur'an WREAKS of evil, if you want a legitimate debate were I can disprove your Qur'an, I'm all in, but please, leave me out of the lie fest.
harrytruman
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6/10/2016 9:47:33 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Quran 2:223
"Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers."

Which passage state marital rape?

First of all this is a mistranslation, Qur'an 2:223:
"Wives are as tilth [dirt] unto you, so approach [have sex with] your tilth [dirt] when of how you feel [with or without her consent]...."
So yeah, RAPE.

Is deficiency in intelligence means dumb?

Yes!
uncung
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6/10/2016 10:47:07 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 9:47:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
Quran 2:223
"Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers."

Which passage state marital rape?

First of all this is a mistranslation, Qur'an 2:223:
"Wives are as tilth [dirt] unto you, so approach [have sex with] your tilth [dirt] when of how you feel [with or without her consent]...."
So yeah, RAPE.

It still doesn't imply rape at all. Sex position is available in many styles. missionary, from behind, doggy, oral, and many more styles of sex attraction between the spouse. Quran permits us to choose the style we wish.

Is deficiency in intelligence means dumb?

Yes!
It, isn't. dumb is the lacking of speech. Is women lacking of speech?
uncung
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6/10/2016 10:58:21 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 5:14:21 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/10/2016 5:00:02 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:40:05 PM, Looncall wrote:

Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

Response: The verse says however you wish, along with other verses that says not to inherit women against their will and treat them kindly (4:19). Thus the context proves that "however you wish" refers to however you wish in a kind way. Debunked. Try again.

Which verses say that 6 year old children can show their like of sex, Fati, or did you just make that up yourself?

Nothing. Why do you keep asking it?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/11/2016 7:29:05 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 10:58:21 PM, uncung wrote:
At 6/10/2016 5:14:21 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/10/2016 5:00:02 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:40:05 PM, Looncall wrote:

Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

Response: The verse says however you wish, along with other verses that says not to inherit women against their will and treat them kindly (4:19). Thus the context proves that "however you wish" refers to however you wish in a kind way. Debunked. Try again.

Which verses say that 6 year old children can show their like of sex, Fati, or did you just make that up yourself?

Nothing. Why do you keep asking it?

I wish no offence to you or your fellow religionists, Uncung. I just want to know how Fatihah can make the claims he does. In nearly every country on Earth sexual activity with a six year old child is (rightly) a serious criminal offence. If Fatihah has evidence of such crimes he should be reporting it to the police and/or child protection agencies, not using it to score points on a debate forum.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,025
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6/11/2016 8:08:26 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/11/2016 7:29:05 AM, desmac wrote:
At 6/10/2016 10:58:21 PM, uncung wrote:
At 6/10/2016 5:14:21 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/10/2016 5:00:02 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:40:05 PM, Looncall wrote:

Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

Response: The verse says however you wish, along with other verses that says not to inherit women against their will and treat them kindly (4:19). Thus the context proves that "however you wish" refers to however you wish in a kind way. Debunked. Try again.

Which verses say that 6 year old children can show their like of sex, Fati, or did you just make that up yourself?

Nothing. Why do you keep asking it?

I wish no offence to you or your fellow religionists, Uncung. I just want to know how Fatihah can make the claims he does. In nearly every country on Earth sexual activity with a six year old child is (rightly) a serious criminal offence. If Fatihah has evidence of such crimes he should be reporting it to the police and/or child protection agencies, not using it to score points on a debate forum.

first of all, i want to know how do you get this 6-year-old thing. i proved it with good evidence and historical facts that Aisha was around 17-22 when she married Muhammad. also his father asked Muhammad to marry her, hence she was deemed ready for marriage, Muhammad did not do the proposal.

there were a lot of people who fabricated hadith, so Shia Muslims created a branch of scientific research called Rejal, with which they trace every hadith cited and reject or accept with good amount of certainty. most of this 6-year-old marriage comes from people who worked for Moaviyah (who fought Imam Ali, killed Imam Hassan (grandson of Muhammad), and his son killed Imam Hussein (grandson of Muhammad)).

also there is another thing about marriage:
you guys marry with certain customs, people of another country marry with certain customs, Muslims marry with certain customs, Christians ...
if a Muslim tries to marry with your customs alone, his marriage is not accepted and every intimacy after that will be adultery.
these customs differ between countries and religions and also between different ages of human history. so if you could prove your claim (which you can't), Muhammad marrying a 9 year old (even though it's provable that she was 17-22 with facts) was not deemed strange or wrong in Arabia 1400 years ago, and it wasn't considered adultery, it was a normal way of marriage.
uncung
Posts: 3,452
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6/11/2016 8:22:17 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/11/2016 7:29:05 AM, desmac wrote:
At 6/10/2016 10:58:21 PM, uncung wrote:
At 6/10/2016 5:14:21 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/10/2016 5:00:02 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:40:05 PM, Looncall wrote:

Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

Response: The verse says however you wish, along with other verses that says not to inherit women against their will and treat them kindly (4:19). Thus the context proves that "however you wish" refers to however you wish in a kind way. Debunked. Try again.

Which verses say that 6 year old children can show their like of sex, Fati, or did you just make that up yourself?

Nothing. Why do you keep asking it?

I wish no offence to you or your fellow religionists, Uncung. I just want to know how Fatihah can make the claims he does. In nearly every country on Earth sexual activity with a six year old child is (rightly) a serious criminal offence. If Fatihah has evidence of such crimes he should be reporting it to the police and/or child protection agencies, not using it to score points on a debate forum.

Yes you are right, sexual activity with a six year old child is (rightly) a serious criminal offence. We have to report it to the police or child protection agencies, if we found them.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/11/2016 8:24:48 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/11/2016 8:08:26 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 6/11/2016 7:29:05 AM, desmac wrote:
At 6/10/2016 10:58:21 PM, uncung wrote:
At 6/10/2016 5:14:21 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/10/2016 5:00:02 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:40:05 PM, Looncall wrote:

Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

Response: The verse says however you wish, along with other verses that says not to inherit women against their will and treat them kindly (4:19). Thus the context proves that "however you wish" refers to however you wish in a kind way. Debunked. Try again.

Which verses say that 6 year old children can show their like of sex, Fati, or did you just make that up yourself?

Nothing. Why do you keep asking it?

I wish no offence to you or your fellow religionists, Uncung. I just want to know how Fatihah can make the claims he does. In nearly every country on Earth sexual activity with a six year old child is (rightly) a serious criminal offence. If Fatihah has evidence of such crimes he should be reporting it to the police and/or child protection agencies, not using it to score points on a debate forum.

first of all, i want to know how do you get this 6-year-old thing. i proved it with good evidence and historical facts that Aisha was around 17-22 when she married Muhammad. also his father asked Muhammad to marry her, hence she was deemed ready for marriage, Muhammad did not do the proposal.

there were a lot of people who fabricated hadith, so Shia Muslims created a branch of scientific research called Rejal, with which they trace every hadith cited and reject or accept with good amount of certainty. most of this 6-year-old marriage comes from people who worked for Moaviyah (who fought Imam Ali, killed Imam Hassan (grandson of Muhammad), and his son killed Imam Hussein (grandson of Muhammad)).

also there is another thing about marriage:
you guys marry with certain customs, people of another country marry with certain customs, Muslims marry with certain customs, Christians ...
if a Muslim tries to marry with your customs alone, his marriage is not accepted and every intimacy after that will be adultery.
these customs differ between countries and religions and also between different ages of human history. so if you could prove your claim (which you can't), Muhammad marrying a 9 year old (even though it's provable that she was 17-22 with facts) was not deemed strange or wrong in Arabia 1400 years ago, and it wasn't considered adultery, it was a normal way of marriage.

I have never been talking about Aisha and Mohamed. Nor Have I been questioning Moslem wedding practises.
My questioning has all been directed at Fatihah, who, according to his profile lives in Philadelphia. In his own words he claims that "children as young as 6 years old can show their like of sex". I am seeking his explanation of this peculiar claim
Please accept my apologies if my enquiries seem to be directed at your Prophet or your religion, this has never been my intention.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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6/11/2016 11:01:28 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 7:35:58 PM, harrytruman wrote:

It constitutes rape as it allows you to.

Response: The word "rape" or anything synonymous to it is nowhere mentioned. This confirming that such thinking stems from your own perverted ideology. Not Islam.

Verse 4:19 says women are to be treated with kindness and the Sunnah says that the hit should not be harmful or leave any pain or scars, nor in the face. That means a light tap. Now this is the part when your idiocy says that even if its a tap it is still wrong because no one likes to be hit, but that makes no sense. Its a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Therefore the punishment is just. Debunked.

Nope, don't see that anywhere, besides, "beat them" is defined in Sahih Muslim 4.2127:
"When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet,.....
I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'............
He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath?.............
He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain,............"

"Beat" is defined as striking them in the chest and causing pain, there ya go.

Response: Nope. Beating is hitting with the intent to cause pain. No where does it say the "intent" is pain. His intent was to remove doubt from her mind by pressing her chest, which is the same miracle he has performed before (Sahih Muslim Book 6 number 332) and since verse 4:19 clearly says to treat them kindly, then his intent was clearly to heal. Debunked. Try again.

Women not allowed to work or handle finances in Islam? Wow, last I checked Proverbs 4 refers to wisdom itself in a feminine tense, and Proverbs 31 talks of women trading,

Response: No one said it is not allowed. It is an option that women who wish not to work can do so. Try again.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/11/2016 11:11:46 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/11/2016 11:01:28 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 6/10/2016 7:35:58 PM, harrytruman wrote:

It constitutes rape as it allows you to.

Response: The word "rape" or anything synonymous to it is nowhere mentioned. This confirming that such thinking stems from your own perverted ideology. Not Islam.

Verse 4:19 says women are to be treated with kindness and the Sunnah says that the hit should not be harmful or leave any pain or scars, nor in the face. That means a light tap. Now this is the part when your idiocy says that even if its a tap it is still wrong because no one likes to be hit, but that makes no sense. Its a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Therefore the punishment is just. Debunked.

Nope, don't see that anywhere, besides, "beat them" is defined in Sahih Muslim 4.2127:
"When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet,.....
I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'............
He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath?.............
He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain,............"

"Beat" is defined as striking them in the chest and causing pain, there ya go.

Response: Nope. Beating is hitting with the intent to cause pain. No where does it say the "intent" is pain. His intent was to remove doubt from her mind by pressing her chest, which is the same miracle he has performed before (Sahih Muslim Book 6 number 332) and since verse 4:19 clearly says to treat them kindly, then his intent was clearly to heal. Debunked. Try again.

Women not allowed to work or handle finances in Islam? Wow, last I checked Proverbs 4 refers to wisdom itself in a feminine tense, and Proverbs 31 talks of women trading,

Response: No one said it is not allowed. It is an option that women who wish not to work can do so. Try again.

Whilst you are in an explanatory mood, Fati, maybe you will explain how children as young as 6 years old can show their like of sex.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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6/11/2016 2:46:49 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
No, it says he struck her, "struck her, and caused pain," now you should stop lying, and that verse you told me doesn't say to treat wives kindly, it has ZERO relevance to this debate.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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6/11/2016 4:28:10 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 3:17:24 PM, uncung wrote:
Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

It still doesn't imply marital rape. husband may approach his wife in varied sex positions he wishes.

What if the wife doesn't want to have sex at the time? Is it ok in Islam for the husband to force his wife to have sex in whatever position he wants?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,310
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6/11/2016 4:52:51 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/11/2016 4:28:10 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 6/10/2016 3:17:24 PM, uncung wrote:
Did you miss the words "however you wish"? That excludes the wife's consent. Sex without consent is rape?

How come muslims are incapable of understanding rape? Oh, yeah, islam is all about submission isn't it? 'Nuff said.

It still doesn't imply marital rape. husband may approach his wife in varied sex positions he wishes.

What if the wife doesn't want to have sex at the time? Is it ok in Islam for the husband to force his wife to have sex in whatever position he wants?

I say it is okay. You my wife and you don't want to have sex, and I make you have sex, you will never win your selfish complaint in court, anywhere. You don't like it, you get a divorce.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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6/11/2016 8:06:33 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/11/2016 2:46:49 PM, harrytruman wrote:
No, it says he struck her, "struck her, and caused pain," now you should stop lying, and that verse you told me doesn't say to treat wives kindly, it has ZERO relevance to this debate.

Response: Exactly. It says struck her and caused her pain, not he "INTENDED" to cause her pain. DUMMY. He intended to heal her from evil doubts by pressing her chest. The same press on the chest that he did in another hadith (Sahih Muslim Book 6 num 332). Therefore, it is not abuse when the intent is to heal, regardless of pain. That's like calling a dentist abusive because it hurts when he heals your tooth. You sound stupid. Quit while you are behind. Try again.