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It's normal and natural

Mhykiel
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6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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6/12/2016 12:33:04 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

God made animals that do these things. And its natural.? That's messed up.

But it's not like god created human with a lap lap. Some 6 to 10,000 years ago.

But just imagine if People were around 150,000 to 200,000 years ago.
Mhykiel
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6/12/2016 12:50:14 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:33:04 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

God made animals that do these things. And its natural.? That's messed up.

But it's not like god created human with a lap lap. Some 6 to 10,000 years ago.

But just imagine if People were around 150,000 to 200,000 years ago.

Omg God didn't make natural humans? Or is it the Fall! Ooo

Tell me how rare occurence means normal?

Tell me how occurence in animals means natural for humans?

Please tell me how we can even tell what is aberrant?

Anorexia, obesity, tumor, anxiety disorder, psychosis all naturally occur in animals as well. Should we as a society say 'hey it's just natural for some people to binge eat and purge' ?

Clearly the argument fails to discern what is or is not human norm, moralor even healthy.

As for how God made everything good and now we see things aren't good? Many religions have different explainations.

Still holding my breath for the scientific method to make moral discernments
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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6/12/2016 12:55:05 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

Convoluted as her argument might have been, that was not her point.

But I'll pick up on your interpretation.
The argument as it is typically presented is not "it's normal & it's natural, therefore it is morally permissible".
It is an objection against an argument along the lines of "it's not normal & it's not natural, therefore it's NOT morally permissible", by showing that the antecedent is not fulfilled.

Undercutting defeater =|= rebutting defeater.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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6/12/2016 1:02:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:55:05 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

Convoluted as her argument might have been, that was not her point.

But I'll pick up on your interpretation.
The argument as it is typically presented is not "it's normal & it's natural, therefore it is morally permissible".
It is an objection against an argument along the lines of "it's not normal & it's not natural, therefore it's NOT morally permissible", by showing that the antecedent is not fulfilled.

Undercutting defeater =|= rebutting defeater.

I think she intends to equate natural with moral. So I'm objecting to that.

Morality is the discernment between two actions. Therefore even immoral action must have an observed rate of occurence
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/12/2016 1:32:42 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

Do I detect just a soupcon of sarcasm in this topic?

The simple fact is that we are not mere animals, and that should be patently obvious to even the dumbest of us.

The gap between animals and humans is massive, not in the physical sense, and not always massively in terms of intelligence, , but morally?

We have considerably more capacity for freedom of thought and of will. An immeasurably grater capacity to choose between alternatives than any but the most intelligent of animals.

We also have a much greater capacity to learn what is right and what wrong, though few seem to exercise that ability as much as we should, and none have the capacity to understand exactly what is right or what wrong. Why else would there be such massive divergence of ideas even in the same culture?

That is one of the many aspects that people who want to deny God and creation fail to recognise, or choose to gloss over.

Homosexuality is not normal amongst animals, though bi-sexuality is, but animals are driven by instinct and not with the capacity to control that.

We have the mental capacity to understand that it is not natural, and not only that, but in humans it serves no purpose whatever. In animals the only purpose it can fit is that of practice. or play, or more likley both.

How many purely homosexual animals has anyone ever encountered? I think you will find it is a big fat zero.

The only thing it demonstrates is physical attraction, nothing more, and in humans physical attraction is much less important than the attraction of like minds.

In animals that purpose of sex is purely for the continuation of the species.
In humans it is for more than that, it is for the furtherance of cultures, of ideas, of outlooks. To pass on information from one generation to the next.

Homosexuality actually works against that purpose by narrowing the gene pool

No, there is no way on this earth that homosexuality can be made to appear natural.

And that is without getting into the religious and moral objections.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/12/2016 1:37:29 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:33:04 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

God made animals that do these things. And its natural.? That's messed up.

No he did not, nor did he legislate agsnt them doing some.

Bt tell me. How many examples of homosexual animals have you ever come across?

I doubt you have come across, any.

Bi-sexual yes, purely homosexual, I very much doubt it.


But it's not like god created human with a lap lap. Some 6 to 10,000 years ago.

But just imagine if People were around 150,000 to 200,000 years ago.

Why imagine it? Jehovah tells us they weren't and I would rather believe him that dubious scientific time measurement, which are impossible to prove.

I can prove, and have proved, the reliability of scripture.

No-one can prove the accuracy of scientific measures of time beyond the point where records of the things they claim to measure were first made.

You can prove current decay rates. You cannot prove historical ones.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/12/2016 1:38:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:55:05 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

Convoluted as her argument might have been, that was not her point.

But I'll pick up on your interpretation.
The argument as it is typically presented is not "it's normal & it's natural, therefore it is morally permissible".
It is an objection against an argument along the lines of "it's not normal & it's not natural, therefore it's NOT morally permissible", by showing that the antecedent is not fulfilled.

Undercutting defeater =|= rebutting defeater.

I see, I think. At least I think I do. Think that is.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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6/12/2016 1:57:36 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 1:37:29 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:33:04 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

God made animals that do these things. And its natural.? That's messed up.

No he did not, nor did he legislate agsnt them doing some.

Bt tell me. How many examples of homosexual animals have you ever come across?

I doubt you have come across, any.

Bi-sexual yes, purely homosexual, I very much doubt it.


But it's not like god created human with a lap lap. Some 6 to 10,000 years ago.

But just imagine if People were around 150,000 to 200,000 years ago.

Why imagine it? Jehovah tells us they weren't and I would rather believe him that dubious scientific time measurement, which are impossible to prove.

I can prove, and have proved, the reliability of scripture.

No-one can prove the accuracy of scientific measures of time beyond the point where records of the things they claim to measure were first made.

You can prove current decay rates. You cannot prove historical ones.

Hi mcb .

No I'm not sure on this homosexual animal thing , that's why I didn't comment on the other thread.
I commented on Mhykiels comment about animals not wearing clothes. And the fact that we once didn't obviously wear clothes . And the fact that now we do so we have somewhat progressed and its better we wear clothes for our own benefits.
I've lost my words now, but um yeah. It's all good.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/12/2016 2:27:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 1:57:36 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 6/12/2016 1:37:29 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:33:04 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

God made animals that do these things. And its natural.? That's messed up.

No he did not, nor did he legislate agsnt them doing some.

Bt tell me. How many examples of homosexual animals have you ever come across?

I doubt you have come across, any.

Bi-sexual yes, purely homosexual, I very much doubt it.


But it's not like god created human with a lap lap. Some 6 to 10,000 years ago.

But just imagine if People were around 150,000 to 200,000 years ago.

Why imagine it? Jehovah tells us they weren't and I would rather believe him that dubious scientific time measurement, which are impossible to prove.

I can prove, and have proved, the reliability of scripture.

No-one can prove the accuracy of scientific measures of time beyond the point where records of the things they claim to measure were first made.

You can prove current decay rates. You cannot prove historical ones.

Hi mcb .

Hi DaB


No I'm not sure on this homosexual animal thing , that's why I didn't comment on the other thread.
I commented on Mhykiels comment about animals not wearing clothes. And the fact that we once didn't obviously wear clothes . And the fact that now we do so we have somewhat progressed and its better we wear clothes for our own benefits.

In fact strictly speaking wearing clothes is not natural, but since the fill of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden it has become necessary.

Think about it, ignoring for now the "body decoration" aspect of them,why do we need clothes.

1: Weather / climate.

2: Originally to stop members of teh opposite sex from having sinful thoughts (that one seems to have been reversed today though).

If we were still as we were designed why would we need them?

1: As climatological experts will tell you, it would appear that the climate way back was temperate, so weather / climate wold not be a factor.

2: Before the fall, sexual temptation would not have been a problem, any more than it is for Naturists (as opposed to naturalists) today.

After all, the human body, reasonably cared for, is a work of art, and a naked man / woman should be no different to a naked statue of same, and should only excite admiration for it's design / artistry, into sexual feelings.

Again think of Naturists. In controlled areas they spend all day and night naked, and yet you will find there is far less promiscuity amongst them that we "normal" people.

To them the body is a work of art, not an object of desire.

So no, I don't believe clothing is natural, but for the present it is necessary, especially in this world where appearances cunt for far more than they should..

I've lost my words now, but um yeah. It's all good.

If you remember them by all means come back to / at me.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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6/12/2016 2:30:53 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

I'm surprised to see you admit that the Biblical god slaughtered children.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 2:30:53 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

I'm surprised to see you admit that the Biblical god slaughtered children.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

The Bible is an honest book, it tells the stories without glossing over the bits that people like you may easily take completely the wrong way.

That is because the God who inspired it is honest and values honesty above almost all things.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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6/12/2016 2:46:26 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:30:53 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

I'm surprised to see you admit that the Biblical god slaughtered children.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

The Bible is an honest book, it tells the stories without glossing over the bits that people like you may easily take completely the wrong way.

That is because the God who inspired it is honest and values honesty above almost all things.

You're right. The honest assessment is that the Biblical god murdered babies. The posters premise was that he was against killing babies however.

At minimum, one has to admit that god wants people to kill babies in his name, at least under certain circumstances.

So basically, don't kill babies unless a voice in your head tells you to or if someone else claims a voice in their head told you to.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,031
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6/12/2016 2:49:44 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

humans can go lower than animals and higher than angels. if you select the former, you're less than animals and if you select letter, you're greater than angels. those who compare themselves with animals and say it's OK to do this and that, are simply human in form, but their soul is probably gone lower than those of animals.
Willows
Posts: 2,068
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6/12/2016 3:02:06 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 2:49:44 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

humans can go lower than animals and higher than angels. if you select the former, you're less than animals and if you select letter, you're greater than angels. those who compare themselves with animals and say it's OK to do this and that, are simply human in form, but their soul is probably gone lower than those of animals.

I totally agree with the points you are making.
If we are going to act as animals why don't we eat uncooked food off the ground, run amuck around shopping centres, sleep under trees or in caves and fornicate with whom we please whenever and wherever we want. Only natural isn't it?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/12/2016 4:56:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 2:46:26 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:30:53 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

I'm surprised to see you admit that the Biblical god slaughtered children.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

The Bible is an honest book, it tells the stories without glossing over the bits that people like you may easily take completely the wrong way.

That is because the God who inspired it is honest and values honesty above almost all things.

You're right. The honest assessment is that the Biblical god murdered babies. The posters premise was that he was against killing babies however.

No, not murdered. Put to sleep, to be awakened at a later date.


At minimum, one has to admit that god wants people to kill babies in his name, at least under certain circumstances.

Not wanted, needed, and those circumstances d not pertain any longer, and haven't since Christ faithfully, and successfully, did what his father sent him to incarnate as Jesus for.


So basically, don't kill babies unless a voice in your head tells you to or if someone else claims a voice in their head told you to.

No, scripture makes it very clear that any voices in your head today telling you anything do not come from Jehovah any longer, but from Satan.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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6/12/2016 5:02:20 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 4:56:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:46:26 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:30:53 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

I'm surprised to see you admit that the Biblical god slaughtered children.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

The Bible is an honest book, it tells the stories without glossing over the bits that people like you may easily take completely the wrong way.

That is because the God who inspired it is honest and values honesty above almost all things.

You're right. The honest assessment is that the Biblical god murdered babies. The posters premise was that he was against killing babies however.

No, not murdered. Put to sleep, to be awakened at a later date.

Awww, isn't that so cute, MCB believes murdering is just going to sleep. The mind of an infant is a wondrous thing.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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6/12/2016 5:14:50 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 4:56:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:46:26 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:30:53 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

I'm surprised to see you admit that the Biblical god slaughtered children.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

The Bible is an honest book, it tells the stories without glossing over the bits that people like you may easily take completely the wrong way.

That is because the God who inspired it is honest and values honesty above almost all things.

You're right. The honest assessment is that the Biblical god murdered babies. The posters premise was that he was against killing babies however.

No, not murdered. Put to sleep, to be awakened at a later date.

MCB: Seriously officer, I didn't murder those children. I just put them to sleep to be awakened at a later date!
Officer: This is your lucky day because I'm a Biblical literalist also :)


At minimum, one has to admit that god wants people to kill babies in his name, at least under certain circumstances.

Not wanted, needed, and those circumstances d not pertain any longer, and haven't since Christ faithfully, and successfully, did what his father sent him to incarnate as Jesus for.

So, in other words, don't kill babies unless you need to according to the Bible. Gotcha.


So basically, don't kill babies unless a voice in your head tells you to or if someone else claims a voice in their head told you to.

No, scripture makes it very clear that any voices in your head today telling you anything do not come from Jehovah any longer, but from Satan.

At what point exactly did the voices in your head go from being holy to evil? Since you are so sure you have an answer for everything, I cant wait to hear your answer.

Sounds like you and the poster disagree. He doesn't think its normal and natural to kill babies but you do. Maybe you guys should debate as to what the Bible really means.

Atheists aren't confused on such issues. Before anyone wants to start bringing up abortion, no atheist disagrees that babies shouldn't be killed; they just don't think biomass that hasn't developed consciousness is a person yet - that would be a strawman.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/12/2016 7:04:08 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 5:14:50 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 4:56:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:46:26 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:30:53 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

I'm surprised to see you admit that the Biblical god slaughtered children.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

The Bible is an honest book, it tells the stories without glossing over the bits that people like you may easily take completely the wrong way.

That is because the God who inspired it is honest and values honesty above almost all things.

You're right. The honest assessment is that the Biblical god murdered babies. The posters premise was that he was against killing babies however.

No, not murdered. Put to sleep, to be awakened at a later date.

MCB: Seriously officer, I didn't murder those children. I just put them to sleep to be awakened at a later date!

Officer: This is your lucky day because I'm a Biblical literalist also :)

Mock all you like, it is your own grave you are digging.



At minimum, one has to admit that god wants people to kill babies in his name, at least under certain circumstances.

Not wanted, needed, and those circumstances d not pertain any longer, and haven't since Christ faithfully, and successfully, did what his father sent him to incarnate as Jesus for.

So, in other words, don't kill babies unless you need to according to the Bible. Gotcha.

No that is not it at all, as you well know.



So basically, don't kill babies unless a voice in your head tells you to or if someone else claims a voice in their head told you to.

No, scripture makes it very clear that any voices in your head today telling you anything do not come from Jehovah any longer, but from Satan.

At what point exactly did the voices in your head go from being holy to evil? Since you are so sure you have an answer for everything, I cant wait to hear your answer.

Depends what you men by "the words in my head".

If you mean my thoughts, I have struggled to pull them away from evil to what is good, and will continue to do so.

The only reason that, as you say, I have an answer for everything is because the God I serve has the answer for everything and helps me to bring it to mind, through his son and holy spirit.

After all, you can only have an answer if there is one. With Jehovah's help I can remember it.


Sounds like you and the poster disagree. He doesn't think its normal and natural to kill babies but you do. Maybe you guys should debate as to what the Bible really means.

I have never sai ti si normal and natural. It was thing which Jehovah had done because it was the best possible outcome for the babies in the circumstances, better than a horrible death from starvation.

Giving life comes much more naturally to jehovah, but that doesn't mean he won;t take it if there isn't another alternative in the situation.

After all, he has arranged for the resurrection as a fall back state, and his son has now guaranteed that it will happen, by his faithful life course whilst on earth as Jesus.


Atheists aren't confused on such issues. Before anyone wants to start bringing up abortion, no atheist disagrees that babies shouldn't be killed; they just don't think biomass that hasn't developed consciousness is a person yet - that would be a strawman.

Oh atheists are confused on many issues, not least the existence of, and rightful sovereignty of Jehovah.

Certainly the understandings you have expressed so far in your replies to my posts have been not only very confused but twisted away from the truth.

Not only that but you even twist my words to mean what you wish them to mean rather than what I, the author wish them to mean. For instance claiming that I use the Bible to prove the Bible. I do not. I use science history archaeology to prove the Bible, however I do use the Bible to show Jehovah's thinking therin, and also to show how and why a certain passage either fits in to the overall flow or is mistranslated.

You claim such clarity of thinking, and yet you cannot see the obvious evidence for the existence of God which passes in front of your eyes every day.

Jesus gave the explanation for that very concisely at Matthew 13:15.
15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them."

That describes you perfectly.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/12/2016 7:07:16 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 5:02:20 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/12/2016 4:56:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:46:26 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:30:53 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

I'm surprised to see you admit that the Biblical god slaughtered children.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

The Bible is an honest book, it tells the stories without glossing over the bits that people like you may easily take completely the wrong way.

That is because the God who inspired it is honest and values honesty above almost all things.

You're right. The honest assessment is that the Biblical god murdered babies. The posters premise was that he was against killing babies however.

No, not murdered. Put to sleep, to be awakened at a later date.

Awww, isn't that so cute, MCB believes murdering is just going to sleep. The mind of an infant is a wondrous thing.

No, I ow that death as we know it at present is exactly like going into a dreamless sleep from which we will be woken after Armageddon, precisely as Christ and the Apostes taught.

That is why Christ described Lazarus as "sleeping" when he was actually dead and Jesus knew it.

It is also why the Apostles often referred to the death we know at present as having "fallen asleep in death".

Since Jehovah's only begotten son believes that I see no reason to argue with him.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,364
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6/12/2016 10:00:45 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

Who the f is Jehovah? The Bible says no man can come to know God while living in sin, with you already admitting to living a life of sin, tell me now, how is it that you and the Almighty have become so close to being such good bff,fff's that for f'in' out loud...just how is it the Creator gave you this ridiculous first name?
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/13/2016 3:39:05 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 7:07:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 5:02:20 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/12/2016 4:56:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:46:26 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:30:53 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

I'm surprised to see you admit that the Biblical god slaughtered children.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

The Bible is an honest book, it tells the stories without glossing over the bits that people like you may easily take completely the wrong way.

That is because the God who inspired it is honest and values honesty above almost all things.

You're right. The honest assessment is that the Biblical god murdered babies. The posters premise was that he was against killing babies however.

No, not murdered. Put to sleep, to be awakened at a later date.

Awww, isn't that so cute, MCB believes murdering is just going to sleep. The mind of an infant is a wondrous thing.

No, I ow that death as we know it at present is exactly like going into a dreamless sleep from which we will be woken after Armageddon, precisely as Christ and the Apostes taught.

That is why Christ described Lazarus as "sleeping" when he was actually dead and Jesus knew it.

It is also why the Apostles often referred to the death we know at present as having "fallen asleep in death".

Since Jehovah's only begotten son believes that I see no reason to argue with him.

Mummy told me he wasn't dead he was just asleep and mummy wouldn't lie.
Pathetic isn't it?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/13/2016 8:10:35 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 10:00:45 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

Who the f is Jehovah? The Bible says no man can come to know God while living in sin, with you already admitting to living a life of sin, tell me now, how is it that you and the Almighty have become so close to being such good bff,fff's that for f'in' out loud...just how is it the Creator gave you this ridiculous first name?

Wrong again as usual because you ignore the story of the whole thing.

Jehovah is the one true God, the God and father of my King, Christ.

Sinners cannot get to know Jehovah.

However repentant sinners can, and are welcomed.

As Jesus said, there is more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents than over 99 righteous men.

Never heard the story of the Prodigal Son?

We are all prodigal sons in our way, it is just that some of us have returned home and pleaded for the forgiveness for which Jehovah is so well known.

If all that is in your heart is judgment you will not prosper.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,364
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6/13/2016 3:21:17 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 8:10:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/12/2016 10:00:45 PM, MasonicSlayer wrote:
At 6/12/2016 2:39:54 PM, MadCornishBiker

How can an honest man deny what Jehovah himself admits to?

Who the f is Jehovah? The Bible says no man can come to know God while living in sin, with you already admitting to living a life of sin, tell me now, how is it that you and the Almighty have become so close to being such good bff,fff's that for f'in' out loud...just how is it the Creator gave you this ridiculous first name?

Wrong again as usual because you ignore the story of the whole thing.

Then tell me the whole story. Wait. I have a better idea. Let's just listen to you preach.

Jehovah is the one true God, the God and father of my King, Christ.

So it goes God then King. I'm guessing a Lord falls under a King, right?

Sinners cannot get to know Jehovah.

Well praise the Lord. I mean, praise the King. Better yet let's just kiss as straight to the top and praise the God. Say, what's your secret to stop being a sinner? I keep sinning like every day. How do I stop? Have you really stopped being a sinner?

However repentant sinners can, and are welcomed.

Hmm, a sin today for a sorrow tomorrow (?) Ooooh, me like. Me like. I will sin every day and say I'm sorry tomorrow. Hehe.

As Jesus said, there is more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents than over 99 righteous men.

So me who these 99 righteous men are and I will give you 99 reasons for denial.

Never heard the story of the Prodigal Son?

Was that a movie? It sounds familiar.

We are all prodigal sons in our way, it is just that some of us have returned home and pleaded for the forgiveness for which Jehovah is so well known.

Oh so you have been home, because I was under the impression you have not. I've gone home too. Yes yes, tell me more oh wise one. What's it like to go home?

If all that is in your heart is judgment you will not prosper.

Yep. That is so true.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,031
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6/13/2016 5:09:10 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

well why stop at killing? hyenas eat their dead children. if you're gonna kill them why wouldn't you eat them too? i mean if you're going to learn from animals, why wont you go all the way?
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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6/27/2016 10:15:10 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

Of course Clown8 dodged. And the other atheist posters here swerved away from it like a drunk driver trying to avoid a child.

Matt, the most clueless, piped up to condemn God for "doing as animals do" in killing babies, but will defend homosexuality as natural and moral because animals do it. The classic case of an atheist willing to be an idiot if that would ensure condemnation of God.

But Clown8 doesn't do debate. It just posts illogical rubbish, and runs after bully chimes in to say how marvelous said rubbish is. (Bully doesn't do debate either.)

The fact is that in this argument, atheists do equate "naturally occurring in nature" with "moral". That is easily shown to be untrue and illogical, as evidenced from atheists hysterical unwillingness to address Mhykiel's point here.

Threads like this make me wonder how the atheist resolves the dissonance in his head for not being able to answer questions. When (and if) he asks himself why he cannot answer, what reply does he give himself?
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/27/2016 10:41:38 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 10:15:10 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

Of course Clown8 dodged. And the other atheist posters here swerved away from it like a drunk driver trying to avoid a child.

Matt, the most clueless, piped up to condemn God for "doing as animals do" in killing babies, but will defend homosexuality as natural and moral because animals do it. The classic case of an atheist willing to be an idiot if that would ensure condemnation of God.

But Clown8 doesn't do debate. It just posts illogical rubbish, and runs after bully chimes in to say how marvelous said rubbish is. (Bully doesn't do debate either.)

The fact is that in this argument, atheists do equate "naturally occurring in nature" with "moral". That is easily shown to be untrue and illogical, as evidenced from atheists hysterical unwillingness to address Mhykiel's point here.

Threads like this make me wonder how the atheist resolves the dissonance in his head for not being able to answer questions. When (and if) he asks himself why he cannot answer, what reply does he give himself?
Any clown who gets their morality from the bible doesn't actually has a morality devised by cavemen.
Good luck with that.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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6/27/2016 7:06:45 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

The failure in logic, here, is the assumption that whatever happens "normally and naturally" must be good for humanity. Plagues happen "normally and naturally" but they are not good for humanity. The factor you left out is that in nature, life forms compete for survival. Such that what is good for one life form is not necessarily good for another. Therefor, what happens "normally and naturally" in any other species is not always going to be good for the human species.
rnjs
Posts: 380
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6/28/2016 5:37:29 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

Many times scientists have stated that rape, murder and other things are natural and normal consequences of chemical reactions in our brains if we evolved from lower forms, and that there is no good or evil or right or wrong.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/28/2016 5:43:46 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/28/2016 5:37:29 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:14:51 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
It's extremely normal for animals from different species to kill the offspring of competing males.

So therefore it is natural and normal for humans to kill their step children.

Any God or gods condemning the sluaghter of children as immoral is against the normal and natural order of things.

Also running around without clothes on is natural for all animals I know. We should not be illegal or discouraged to run around naked.

Any objections Chloe?

Many times scientists have stated that rape, murder and other things are natural and normal consequences of chemical reactions in our brains if we evolved from lower forms, and that there is no good or evil or right or wrong.
Oh dear.
Provide your citations, dingle berry.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin