Total Posts:43|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

There's only one reason we're here.

Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I
Casten
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 6:17:55 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

Are you a prophet or something?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 6:51:39 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely.

What do you mean by existential reality?
If you are saying nothing is real or nothing exists in reality Ben, then your God does not exist and you do not exist either. If you do not exist, then your so called free will does not exist either and cannot be real if nothing is real.
Free will is not a purpose behind any existence. No person willed themselves into existence. No one had a say in their own birth and they do not have say in their own death either unless they commit suicide.
All people choose how to act and react toward other people and life in general depending on how they experience it.
All die and become dust in the end. If you call that annihilation, it makes no difference if you are a good or bad person, you end up in the same place.... the grave. That is one Truth no person can escape or deny.
No invisible character knows the hearts of humans. Some people understand human nature more than others.
It is possible to know and understand consequences before any decisions are made.
The destiny of all is the grave in a physical sense and any intelligent person knows that is true.
You ask readers to choose but you do not give them any choices so what are they supposed to choose between?... Life and death ? Life is not a choice and neither is death. Those things are forced on us whether we want them or not.
What one person perceives as wise, another might perceive as foolish. Wisdom and foolishness are merely a matter of human perception and judgement.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,308
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:02:38 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind.
Neo, wake up. Follow the white rabbit, because I want chat with you while looking a scraggly bald men wearing leather assless chaps. And yes, I will tell you a secret. All chaps are assless. I just wanted to say, assless.

Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods.

So Neo, what I'm really telling you, is when you're ready, you will see another reality, a better reality.

Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over.

Neo, which pill did I give you? I think I took too many. Have I told you a lie yet? Remember, that's all I'm offering. There is no other reality. Look at me Neo, stay with me, do not go back AGAIN to that better reality, because you're already there, but stay with me Neo, those leather chaps look amazing on me, right?

Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

Neo, the past and present and future are only as one when you are not plugged into the matrix. Do not unplug, otherwise you will see I'm an idiot who has no idea about what I'm talking about.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 12:25:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 6:17:55 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

Are you a prophet or something?

Not that I'm aware of. There's evidence to support all of this. Selflessly pray for wisdom and God will answer.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 1:04:15 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 6:51:39 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely.

What do you mean by existential reality?

A reality that persists despite the existence of human beings

If you are saying nothing is real or nothing exists in reality Ben, then your God does not exist and you do not exist either. If you do not exist, then your so called free will does not exist either and cannot be real if nothing is real.

How do you define "I" or "you"? The image of the person you see in the mirror does not actually exist. Rather, it is only our free will that actually exists. God's will is present in reality. This is how we're able to objectively discern what's good and what's evil.

Free will is not a purpose behind any existence. No person willed themselves into existence. No one had a say in their own birth and they do not have say in their own death either unless they commit suicide.

There is purpose to our existence because of God. God created us to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with his. Our existence was brought to fruition by God.

All people choose how to act and react toward other people and life in general depending on how they experience it.
All die and become dust in the end. If you call that annihilation, it makes no difference if you are a good or bad person, you end up in the same place.... the grave. That is one Truth no person can escape or deny.

It makes all the difference if you're a good or bad person. That's what this test is about. It's an exercise of free will. Those who lived according to God's will will be one with God and those who did not will cease to exist, forever.

No invisible character knows the hearts of humans.

In other words what you're saying is that "God does not exist and does not know the psyche of humans." I will wait to see what evidence supports your conclusion.

Some people understand human nature more than others.
It is possible to know and understand consequences before any decisions are made.

Indeed. If we didn't know and understand consequences before any decisions were made we wouldn't be making moral choices in the first place.

The destiny of all is the grave in a physical sense and any intelligent person knows that is true.

It is not the death of our spirit. How we lived will determine the destiny of our spirit.

You ask readers to choose but you do not give them any choices so what are they supposed to choose between?... Life and death ? Life is not a choice and neither is death. Those things are forced on us whether we want them or not.

Choose between self or selflessness. Love or hate. Chasing pleasure or chasing virtue.

What one person perceives as wise, another might perceive as foolish. Wisdom and foolishness are merely a matter of human perception and judgement.

If anyone is ever truly wise or truly foolish it cannot be just a matter of human perception.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 1:12:38 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.

choose something that I said that you disagree with and I'll support it with evidence.
tarantula
Posts: 854
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 1:22:04 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

Assertions without any evidence to support them!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 2:15:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

Close, but no cigar.

In fact the entire purpose for which we were created was to care for all of Jehovah's creation down here, including each other.

It really is that simple. Shame we are failing so badly.
dee-em
Posts: 6,472
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 3:05:06 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 12:25:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 6:17:55 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

Are you a prophet or something?

Not that I'm aware of. There's evidence to support all of this. Selflessly pray for wisdom and God will answer.

Do you still claim to not be a Christian, Ben?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 3:38:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 1:12:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.

choose something that I said that you disagree with and I'll support it with evidence.

Prove the world was once perfect before we rebelled.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 4:07:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

At 6/13/2016 12:25:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 6:17:55 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

Are you a prophet or something?

Not that I'm aware of. There's evidence to support all of this. Selflessly pray for wisdom and God will answer.

I used to really like your threads, man. Even if I didn't agree with your conclusions, and saw some flaws in your arguments, they were still pretty well-reasoned. These two posts are off the deep end, though. It really seems like you've left rationality behind.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 4:09:28 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 3:38:39 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:12:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.

choose something that I said that you disagree with and I'll support it with evidence.

Prove the world was once perfect before we rebelled.

A regression of the second law of thermodynamics shows that the state of things was once perfect. "The world is imperfect" is a true sentence. We are able to objectively determine whether something has an imperfection.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 4:13:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:09:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 3:38:39 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:12:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.

choose something that I said that you disagree with and I'll support it with evidence.

Prove the world was once perfect before we rebelled.

A regression of the second law of thermodynamics shows that the state of things was once perfect. "The world is imperfect" is a true sentence. We are able to objectively determine whether something has an imperfection.

What makes a singularity perfect? And how does this singularity have a moral stance?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 4:14:13 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 3:05:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:25:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 6:17:55 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

Are you a prophet or something?

Not that I'm aware of. There's evidence to support all of this. Selflessly pray for wisdom and God will answer.

Do you still claim to not be a Christian, Ben?

I am not because (1) I don't believe God can intervene in reality and (2) hell, as a place of eternal torment, is logically incompatible with the notion of an all powerful, all loving, and omniscient being.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,663
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 4:16:28 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Hi, Ben! It's been a little while...

At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality.

There exists some reality that serves as the source of your conscious experience, would you agree? If so, then that reality exists independent of your conscious experience, whether is physically exists, exists as an unconscious aspect of your mind, or is the manifestation of an external mind. At this point, relative to our perspective, there exists a reality external to ourselves regardless of its nature, and the way we refer to it (i.e. "actually exists") is arbitrary because our words are derived from this experience. For example, we describe something as "physically existent" because perceived interaction with it will result is consistent experiences (stimuli). This is description is compatible with an idealistic worldview, so the dispute becomes wholly semantic.

None of it exists apart the mind.

Apart from what mind? Your own or the mind of another entity?

Reality was specifically designed for human experiences.

You mean your own experiences, then? If reality is a manifestation of the mind, then all aspects of said reality that aren't your own conscious experience are derived from that reality, so the other minds that you perceive are just as real (or unreal) as the reality itself. You have no reason to believe that other humans minds are actually independent minds. This leads to solipsism.

The only thing that's "real" is our free will.

What do you mean by "free will"?

This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods.

This is a good place for some evidence.

Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward.

This seems contradictory. If we were intended to "freely align our disposition and will with Gods" then why are your applying a directive/goal, here? If this is the case, then God is literally testing us, receiving an intended result, and then conferring punishment on and negative judgement to the subject for acting as intended. As such, this is nonsensical.

God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free.

If so, yes; He created your heart and actively controls the reality and experiences that shape it. What part of your own disposition, nature, and experience do you have control over?

Now is the time to choose. Live wisely.

What would "live wisely" entail if "We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods"?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 4:51:25 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:07:55 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

At 6/13/2016 12:25:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 6:17:55 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

Are you a prophet or something?

Not that I'm aware of. There's evidence to support all of this. Selflessly pray for wisdom and God will answer.

I used to really like your threads, man. Even if I didn't agree with your conclusions, and saw some flaws in your arguments, they were still pretty well-reasoned. These two posts are off the deep end, though. It really seems like you've left rationality behind.

Take the most off-the-wall thing I've said and I'll defend it.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,025
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 5:02:08 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely. I

reality is i think, what we get from this world. it doesn't mean that the world and other things don't exist. it's true that they don't exist as we see them, and that the observed will be different in the eyes of different observers, but to say that all exist in your mind will be wrong in my opinion.
also, God knows all. your choices are all known to God, because God is not a being confined in the boundaries of time, so for God, all happens now. meaning he sees 1000 years from now as he sees now. of course, now might not be a good word to be used for this matter, because NOW, is temporal.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 5:03:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:13:55 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:09:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 3:38:39 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:12:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.

choose something that I said that you disagree with and I'll support it with evidence.

Prove the world was once perfect before we rebelled.

A regression of the second law of thermodynamics shows that the state of things was once perfect. "The world is imperfect" is a true sentence. We are able to objectively determine whether something has an imperfection.

What makes a singularity perfect? And how does this singularity have a moral stance?

First we must define what an imperfection is. An imperfection is a fault, blemish, or undesirable feature or "the state of being faulty or incomplete." The singularity possessed infinite values. I also believe that the singularity was either created by God or was God himse. If the singularity was God himself, it was sentient and therefore capable of having a moral stance.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:38:50 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:51:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Take the most off-the-wall thing I've said and I'll defend it.

"The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God."

How do you defend that as a rational statement?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:45:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 5:03:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:13:55 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:09:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 3:38:39 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:12:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.

choose something that I said that you disagree with and I'll support it with evidence.

Prove the world was once perfect before we rebelled.

A regression of the second law of thermodynamics shows that the state of things was once perfect. "The world is imperfect" is a true sentence. We are able to objectively determine whether something has an imperfection.

What makes a singularity perfect? And how does this singularity have a moral stance?

First we must define what an imperfection is. An imperfection is a fault, blemish, or undesirable feature or "the state of being faulty or incomplete." The singularity possessed infinite values. I also believe that the singularity was either created by God or was God himse. If the singularity was God himself, it was sentient and therefore capable of having a moral stance.

Following that reasoning, you admit that god is imperfect.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 10:23:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 5:03:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:13:55 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:09:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 3:38:39 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:12:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.

choose something that I said that you disagree with and I'll support it with evidence.

Prove the world was once perfect before we rebelled.

A regression of the second law of thermodynamics shows that the state of things was once perfect. "The world is imperfect" is a true sentence. We are able to objectively determine whether something has an imperfection.

What makes a singularity perfect? And how does this singularity have a moral stance?

First we must define what an imperfection is. An imperfection is a fault, blemish, or undesirable feature or "the state of being faulty or incomplete." The singularity possessed infinite values. I also believe that the singularity was either created by God or was God himse. If the singularity was God himself, it was sentient and therefore capable of having a moral stance.

You still don't explain what humanity has to do with it. How is humanity responsible for the end of the singularity "imperfection"?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 11:08:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 4:09:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 3:38:39 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:12:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.

choose something that I said that you disagree with and I'll support it with evidence.

Prove the world was once perfect before we rebelled.

A regression of the second law of thermodynamics shows that the state of things was once perfect. "The world is imperfect" is a true sentence. We are able to objectively determine whether something has an imperfection.

LOL. Trying to baffle us with bullsh1t, Ben? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 11:08:51 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 1:12:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 1:02:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

We've observed a lot of fallacies come and go in your threads, Ben, but this one is purely an appeal to your personal beliefs and has little if anything to do with facts, evidence or reality.

choose something that I said that you disagree with and I'll support it with evidence.

You and I both know you can do no such thing, Ben.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/14/2016 1:08:22 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 1:04:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 6:51:39 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/13/2016 4:50:55 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
There's no existential reality. None of it exists apart the mind. Reality was specifically designed for human experiences. The only thing that's "real" is our free will. This is the purpose behind our existence. We were created to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with Gods. Love selflessly and be virtuous. We will either be one with God (again) or be annihilated after our test is over. Live for truth and not expectation of reward. God knows your heart but he doesn't know your destiny. It isn't possible to foreknow the decisions of free beings if they are truly free. Now is the time to choose. Live wisely.

What do you mean by existential reality?

A reality that persists despite the existence of human beings.

So when you say "There is no existential reality" you are saying that if people became extinct, nothing else would exist either? Do you think reality is created by human perception and is nothing but an illusion of human minds?

If you are saying nothing is real or nothing exists in reality Ben, then your God does not exist and you do not exist either. If you do not exist, then your so called free will does not exist either and cannot be real if nothing is real.

How do you define "I" or "you"? The image of the person you see in the mirror does not actually exist. Rather, it is only our free will that actually exists. God's will is present in reality. This is how we're able to objectively discern what's good and what's evil.

I define "I" and "you" as "That which exists".
The person in the mirror is a reflection of a person who does exist. The reflection is not independent of that which exists. The reflection would not exist if that which is reflected did not exist and if the thing which has the ability to reflect did not exist. Non existing things have no reflection and cannot be reflected. Free will cannot be reflected in a mirror. Free will cannot exist independent of the human mind or will. If the human mind did not exist, neither would human will because the will is part of human mind and consciousness.
God is an invisible mythical character who merely personifies existence. The so called will of the character is a creation of human perception. It is a human illusion created by existing humans minds.
No average humans objectively discern anything. Humans discernment is always subjective due to being subject to human perception. What one persons perceives as good another might perceive as evil yet they are judging the very same thing. Both their perceptions are subjective. Neither is objective as long as they cannot see how good can be perceived as evil and evil as good but insist it is one or the other.

Free will is not a purpose behind any existence. No person willed themselves into existence. No one had a say in their own birth and they do not have say in their own death either unless they commit suicide.

There is purpose to our existence because of God. God created us to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with his. Our existence was brought to fruition by God.

Define God. What do you perceive God to be if you think nothing but free will actually exists?

Our existence is because of lifes reproductive processes, not because of some invisible character. We are a result of the human reproduction process not the result of the will of some invisible entity.
There is purpose to our existence only because we believe there is purpose to it and create our own purpose in our minds. Some believe there is no purpose to their existence at all.

If you are implying that God is free will, your following statement is illogical...
You said.."God created us to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will with his. Our existence was brought to fruition by God. "
Now according to your own theory or belief, this is whyat you are implying....
God ( FREE WILL ) created us ( FREE WILL ) to have the opportunity to freely align our disposition and will( FREE WILL) with his ( FREE WILL) . Our existence ( FREE WILL ) was brought to fruition by God( FREE WILL) .

How do you align "free will" with "free will" when they are the same thing in the first place? They are already aligned and connected as ONE... IF according to you, nothing but FREE WILL exists.

All people choose how to act and react toward other people and life in general depending on how they experience it.
All die and become dust in the end. If you call that annihilation, it makes no difference if you are a good or bad person, you end up in the same place.... the grave. That is one Truth no person can escape or deny.

It makes all the difference if you're a good or bad person.
IF FREE WILL is the only thing that exists, then it makes no difference if you are a good or bad person since you don't exist anyway and good and bad do not exist either. You are merely an illusion created by FREE WILLY. ;-)

That's what this test is about. It's an exercise of free will.

A test? Who is testing what?
IF FREE WILL is the only thing that exists, you are implying that "FREE WILL" is testing itself or exercising itself.

Those who lived according to God's will will be one with God and those who did not will cease to exist, forever.

Who are "those" referring to if nothing but FREE WILL exists?
Free will is always one with free will if nothing else exists. Free will cannot choose to NOT live according to free will. Free will is either FREE or it is NOT. As soon as anyone demands that FREE WILL do "A" and not "B", it is creating a state where FREE will must choose to NOT be FREE but rather bound to "A" or "B".
IF FREE WILL ( FREE WILLY) is all that exists, then FREE WILL is always bound to be itself anyway and is not FREE to be anything else but itself.

No invisible character knows the hearts of humans.

In other words what you're saying is that "God does not exist and does not know the psyche of humans." I will wait to see what evidence supports your conclusion.

My own perception and logic supports my conclusions in the same way your perception and logic supports your conclusion that nothing but FREE WILL exists. IF FREE WILL is all that exists then no God/god exists and no humans exist so how can any God/god know the hearts of humans if humans and hearts and gods do not exist?
Your own words that " The only thing that's "real" is our free will."... IMPLIES that "Nothing but FREE WILL exists", and supports the conclusion that no God or humans exist in reality.
I am merely trying to see and understand things from the point of view of a non existing person who seems to believe that FREE WILL ( which is the only thing that is real) must conform to the will of something that exists apart from free will and implies that nothing that exists apart from free will is real.

I think you ( the non existing , not real, person ) needs to get real and make an attempt to develop some logic instead of living in fantasy land while denying the reality of your own existence.
Casten
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/14/2016 1:15:51 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 12:19:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/13/2016 5:19:27 AM, Casten wrote:
Few things are more horrifying to me than the idea that the world I have seen was deliberately created by an emotionally intelligent being, and specifically to be experienced by a living thing with senses as sensitive as ours.

The world was once perfect before mankind rebelled against God. Would it've been better to have never existed given all the pain and suffering in the world? Seemingly, yes, for people who suffer the most. But this life is not all there is. Now is their time of reckoning.

I think the Eden story, and those like it, was created by people trying to reconcile a violent world with a benevolent God. If such stories bring you peace or happiness, I don't begrudge you them, but I think it's just a way of shifting blame away from a father deity we want to think is infallible. The seeming alternative is to think God is cruel, indifferent, or absent, none of which the mind wants to accept.