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Why Did CS Lewis pick Christianity?

matt8800
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6/14/2016 5:40:13 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
When I was a Christian, C.S. Lewis was my favorite Christian author. He was regarded by much of the Christian world as a hero because he was a logical intellect they could claim.

One book, Mere Christianity, made the argument in favor of Christianity. He started by first arguing the existence of a God. His most compelling argument was the existence of objective morality (I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding the existence of objective/subjective morality).

When he made the jump from arguing the existence of a God to arguing the truths in Christianity, he neglected to arguing why he picked Christianity. I was looking for this in particular because the irony that all religions think they were the one true religion was not lost on me.

His only statement as to why he picked Christianity was that it was simply the most obvious choice but did not explain.

Here are some other statements he made in other writings:

1. The apostle Paul was unclear and confusing, essentially a poor communicator.

2. The Bible was full of inconsistencies.

3. Many of the miraculous claims in the Bible probably did not happen.

4. The book of Genesis originated from pagan myths.

(source - http://www.patheos.com......)

Since C.S. Lewis did not/could not explain why he picked Christianity over other religions or Deism, I was hoping a Christian could explain with facts and logic as to why they picked Christianity.
nothead
Posts: 371
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6/14/2016 7:13:04 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/14/2016 5:40:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
When I was a Christian, C.S. Lewis was my favorite Christian author. He was regarded by much of the Christian world as a hero because he was a logical intellect they could claim.

One book, Mere Christianity, made the argument in favor of Christianity. He started by first arguing the existence of a God. His most compelling argument was the existence of objective morality (I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding the existence of objective/subjective morality).

When he made the jump from arguing the existence of a God to arguing the truths in Christianity, he neglected to arguing why he picked Christianity. I was looking for this in particular because the irony that all religions think they were the one true religion was not lost on me.

His only statement as to why he picked Christianity was that it was simply the most obvious choice but did not explain.

Here are some other statements he made in other writings:

1. The apostle Paul was unclear and confusing, essentially a poor communicator.

2. The Bible was full of inconsistencies.

3. Many of the miraculous claims in the Bible probably did not happen.

4. The book of Genesis originated from pagan myths.

(source - http://www.patheos.com......)

Since C.S. Lewis did not/could not explain why he picked Christianity over other religions or Deism, I was hoping a Christian could explain with facts and logic as to why they picked Christianity.

I picked Christianity as approx the third choice among religions. As an investigator of Bahaism I felt a basic lack of accuracy between historical writings. As a TM'er I didn't get much at all. Although I read some had levitated, rather "hopped" nothing like that ever happened to me. As a 3HO Sikh I felt the most peace, but this head guy Bhajan told me my spiritual "name" had something to do with "Christ Consciousness." As I investigated Jesus I was confronted by scripture itself, what Jesus said himself. "No man comes unto the Father except by me." This one was a tie-breaker and I ended up not taking Sikh vows at all after three years with them.

But the decider was a pentecostal baptism in the first group I was with, Gospel Outreach. This baptism was to me a true "touch of God." Then I knew what I know. That God exists, and wants us to know his Joy Indescribable. That faith is a supernatural thing. That God is good and wants good things for us.

That is basically it. The Story of Nothead who once was just a knothead seeker.
But if you don't pray to God sincerely or honestly, you won't ever know when a deciding event occurs wherein this Door is opened. No nirvana, no kundalini rising. No samsara, no revelation of all things being one. But an experience of God not instigated by rational analysis, or doubt. Not considering the human condition of not knowing.
Faith does not consider what we don't know. Faith is a seed of God-knowing. That grows until the knowing is concrete.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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6/14/2016 10:55:09 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/14/2016 5:40:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
When I was a Christian, C.S. Lewis was my favorite Christian author. He was regarded by much of the Christian world as a hero because he was a logical intellect they could claim.

One book, Mere Christianity, made the argument in favor of Christianity. He started by first arguing the existence of a God. His most compelling argument was the existence of objective morality (I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding the existence of objective/subjective morality).

When he made the jump from arguing the existence of a God to arguing the truths in Christianity, he neglected to arguing why he picked Christianity.

Actually he didn't. You just missed it.

I was looking for this in particular because the irony that all religions think they were the one true religion was not lost on me.

Why would that be ironic? Every sports team think they are the best and every mother thinks her baby is the cutest. How is that ironic?

His only statement as to why he picked Christianity was that it was simply the most obvious choice but did not explain.

He felt that Christianity was the most logical and only true choice and he said so several times in many different ways.

Here are some other statements he made in other writings:

1. The apostle Paul was unclear and confusing, essentially a poor communicator.

2. The Bible was full of inconsistencies.

3. Many of the miraculous claims in the Bible probably did not happen.

4. The book of Genesis originated from pagan myths.

(source - http://www.patheos.com......)

I checked your link and found no corroboration for your claims here. Where on that website do we find C.S. Lewis saying any of those things? Could you have made a mistake?

Since C.S. Lewis did not/could not explain why he picked Christianity over other religions or Deism,....

He could, and he did. You are aware that the claim that he did not/could not is simply your opinion right?

I was hoping a Christian could explain with facts and logic as to why they picked Christianity.

I didn't actually "pick" Christianity. I was looking for something true, and Christianity was true. There were no other choices. As Lewis says in Surprised by Joy,

You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me.

There was only one choice. Jesus met him. Christianity was true. He accepted truth.
matt8800
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6/15/2016 2:20:23 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/14/2016 10:55:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/14/2016 5:40:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
When I was a Christian, C.S. Lewis was my favorite Christian author. He was regarded by much of the Christian world as a hero because he was a logical intellect they could claim.

One book, Mere Christianity, made the argument in favor of Christianity. He started by first arguing the existence of a God. His most compelling argument was the existence of objective morality (I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding the existence of objective/subjective morality).

When he made the jump from arguing the existence of a God to arguing the truths in Christianity, he neglected to arguing why he picked Christianity.

Actually he didn't. You just missed it.

Where is it? Id be interesting in reading it, if it does exist, which I doubt.

I was looking for this in particular because the irony that all religions think they were the one true religion was not lost on me.

Why would that be ironic? Every sports team think they are the best and every mother thinks her baby is the cutest. How is that ironic?

So, your opinion that Christianity is the true religion is merely a subjective opinion? Those examples you gave are not objective truths but merely subjective opinions. That would make a Muslim's opinion about Islam equally as valid. You don't find that ironic?

His only statement as to why he picked Christianity was that it was simply the most obvious choice but did not explain.

He felt that Christianity was the most logical and only true choice and he said so several times in many different ways.

I have read at least a dozen of his books, including a book of quotes and Mere Christianity at least twice. He never explains why Christianity is the obvious choice.

Here are some other statements he made in other writings:

1. The apostle Paul was unclear and confusing, essentially a poor communicator.

2. The Bible was full of inconsistencies.

3. Many of the miraculous claims in the Bible probably did not happen.

4. The book of Genesis originated from pagan myths.

(source - http://www.patheos.com......)

I checked your link and found no corroboration for your claims here. Where on that website do we find C.S. Lewis saying any of those things? Could you have made a mistake?

Yes, for some reason the link didn't copy all the way. Here it is - http://www.patheos.com...

Since C.S. Lewis did not/could not explain why he picked Christianity over other religions or Deism,....

He could, and he did. You are aware that the claim that he did not/could not is simply your opinion right?

It is a fact that he did not (feel free to prove me wrong). It is my opinion that he could not.

I was hoping a Christian could explain with facts and logic as to why they picked Christianity.

I didn't actually "pick" Christianity. I was looking for something true, and Christianity was true. There were no other choices. As Lewis says in Surprised by Joy,

Regarding Surprised by Joy, I was specifically looking for his reasoning process using facts (that can be proven) and logic. That was one of the primary reasons I read his books. I did not find it.

I thought it was true also but knew that some holes needed buttoning up. I also felt there was nothing wrong with skepticism because the truth can withstand scrutiny. In my search to button up the holes, I found the holes were too significant to overcome with logic and facts.

You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me.

There was only one choice. Jesus met him. Christianity was true. He accepted truth.

CS Lewis would only say that if it was the best and only argument he could make. It says volumes that he could not say more.
nothead
Posts: 371
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6/15/2016 5:38:02 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/15/2016 2:20:23 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/14/2016 10:55:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/14/2016 5:40:13 AM, matt8800 wrote:
When I was a Christian, C.S. Lewis was my favorite Christian author. He was regarded by much of the Christian world as a hero because he was a logical intellect they could claim.

One book, Mere Christianity, made the argument in favor of Christianity. He started by first arguing the existence of a God. His most compelling argument was the existence of objective morality (I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding the existence of objective/subjective morality).

When he made the jump from arguing the existence of a God to arguing the truths in Christianity, he neglected to arguing why he picked Christianity.

Actually he didn't. You just missed it.

Where is it? Id be interesting in reading it, if it does exist, which I doubt.

I was looking for this in particular because the irony that all religions think they were the one true religion was not lost on me.

Why would that be ironic? Every sports team think they are the best and every mother thinks her baby is the cutest. How is that ironic?

So, your opinion that Christianity is the true religion is merely a subjective opinion? Those examples you gave are not objective truths but merely subjective opinions. That would make a Muslim's opinion about Islam equally as valid. You don't find that ironic?

His only statement as to why he picked Christianity was that it was simply the most obvious choice but did not explain.

He felt that Christianity was the most logical and only true choice and he said so several times in many different ways.

I have read at least a dozen of his books, including a book of quotes and Mere Christianity at least twice. He never explains why Christianity is the obvious choice.

Here are some other statements he made in other writings:

1. The apostle Paul was unclear and confusing, essentially a poor communicator.

2. The Bible was full of inconsistencies.

3. Many of the miraculous claims in the Bible probably did not happen.

4. The book of Genesis originated from pagan myths.

(source - http://www.patheos.com......)

I checked your link and found no corroboration for your claims here. Where on that website do we find C.S. Lewis saying any of those things? Could you have made a mistake?

Yes, for some reason the link didn't copy all the way. Here it is - http://www.patheos.com...

Since C.S. Lewis did not/could not explain why he picked Christianity over other religions or Deism,....

He could, and he did. You are aware that the claim that he did not/could not is simply your opinion right?

It is a fact that he did not (feel free to prove me wrong). It is my opinion that he could not.

I was hoping a Christian could explain with facts and logic as to why they picked Christianity.

I didn't actually "pick" Christianity. I was looking for something true, and Christianity was true. There were no other choices. As Lewis says in Surprised by Joy,

Regarding Surprised by Joy, I was specifically looking for his reasoning process using facts (that can be proven) and logic. That was one of the primary reasons I read his books. I did not find it.

I thought it was true also but knew that some holes needed buttoning up. I also felt there was nothing wrong with skepticism because the truth can withstand scrutiny. In my search to button up the holes, I found the holes were too significant to overcome with logic and facts.

You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me.

There was only one choice. Jesus met him. Christianity was true. He accepted truth.

CS Lewis would only say that if it was the best and only argument he could make. It says volumes that he could not say more.

Maybe Jesus and Christianity made the most sense to him. Wayell, that makes sense to me all righty.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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6/15/2016 12:46:31 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/15/2016 2:20:23 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/14/2016 10:55:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:

When I was a Christian, C.S. Lewis was my favorite Christian author. He was regarded by much of the Christian world as a hero because he was a logical intellect they could claim.

One book, Mere Christianity, made the argument in favor of Christianity. He started by first arguing the existence of a God. His most compelling argument was the existence of objective morality (I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding the existence of objective/subjective morality).

When he made the jump from arguing the existence of a God to arguing the truths in Christianity, he neglected to arguing why he picked Christianity.

Actually he didn't. You just missed it.

Where is it? Id be interesting in reading it, if it does exist, which I doubt.

http://www.cslewisinstitute.org...
Downing starts his work with two contrasting quotes from C.S. Lewis. At age seventeen, Lewis wrote to longtime friend Arthur Greeves, "I believe in no religion. There is absolutely no proof for any of them, and from a philosophical standpoint Christianity is not even the best." Fifteen years later, Lewis wrote to Arthur, "Christianity is God expressing Himself through what we call f'real things'. . . namely, the actual incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection" (p. 11).

On the intellectual side of things, G.K. Chesterton had a significant influence on Lewis. As Lewis read The Everlasting Man, he appreciated Chesterton's humor and was surprised by the power of his presentation. He began to feel that "Christianity was very sensible 'apart from its Christianity'" (p. 130). Lewis also found that he was drawn to many other authors that had this strange Christian twist:Spenser, Milton, Johnson, MacDonald, and others. In contrast, those with whom he theoretically agreed-Voltaire, Gibbon, Mill, Wells, and Shaw-seemed thin and "tinny." On top of this, some of the brightest, most intelligent at Oxford were also "supernaturalists." People like Neville Coghill, Hugo Dyson, and J.R.R. Tolkien were kindred spirits and also Christians. One by one, the arguments that were obstacles to faith were removed.

https://www.ewtn.com...
the story of Lewis' conversion recounted in Surprised by Joy is a story of resistance and surrender. From this viewpoint the book can be seen as a diary in which the writer notes the movements of his soul, shaken, enthralled and at last overcome by God's assault, a diary of Joy

https://www.gci.org...
When God drew Lewis" heart to himself, he became conscious of the presence of his own sinfulness. "For the first time I examined myself with a seriously practical purpose," wrote Lewis. "And there I found what appalled me: a zoo of lusts, a bedlam of ambitions, a nursery of fears, a harem of fondled hatreds. My name is legion."

It was on Sept. 22, 1931 that Lewis said yes to the Lord"s offer of himself "according to his testimony, this was the exact day he became a Christian. It happened on a ride to the Whipsnade Zoo with his brother, Warren. Lewis tells about it in his book, Surprised by Joy: "I know very well when, but hardly how, the final step was taken. I was driven to Whipsnade one sunny morning. When we set out I did not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and when we reached the zoo I did. Yet I had not exactly spent the journey in thought. Nor in great emotion". It was more like when a man, after long sleep, still lying motionless in bed, becomes aware that he is now awake."


In Surprised by Joy, Lewis described that final time before he put his faith in Christ as a period of free and enlightened choice:

The odd thing was that before God closed in on me, I was in fact offered what now appears a moment of wholly free choice". I became aware that I was holding something at bay, or shutting something out". I felt myself being, there and then, given a free choice. I could open the door or keep it shut; I could unbuckle the armor or keep it on. Neither choice was presented as a duty; no threat or promise was attached to either, though I knew that to open the door or to take off the corslet meant the incalculable.

He picked Christianity because it first picked him. Perhaps that is why you missed all he said about it in "Surprised by Joy".
ethang5
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6/15/2016 2:08:04 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/15/2016 2:20:23 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/14/2016 10:55:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:

I was looking for this in particular because the irony that all religions think they were the one true religion was not lost on me.

Why would that be ironic? Every sports team think they are the best and every mother thinks her baby is the cutest. How is that ironic?

So, your opinion that Christianity is the true religion is merely a subjective opinion?

No, but you seem to think so. So why would it seem ironic to you when you don't seem to see irony in all the other subjective things of which I gave 2 examples?

Those examples you gave are not objective truths but merely subjective opinions.

As you think religious claims are. Your bias is showing.

That would make a Muslim's opinion about Islam equally as valid. You don't find that ironic?

No, because I don't stupidly think all religious claims have equal validity. I asked you why did you find it ironic? You dodged to attack a position you assumed of me.

His only statement as to why he picked Christianity was that it was simply the most obvious choice but did not explain.

He felt that Christianity was the most logical and only true choice and he said so several times in many different ways.

I have read at least a dozen of his books, including a book of quotes and Mere Christianity at least twice. He never explains why Christianity is the obvious choice.

Because he met Jesus. It was a no-brainer after that.

Here are some other statements he made in other writings:

1. The apostle Paul was unclear and confusing, essentially a poor communicator.
2. The Bible was full of inconsistencies.
3. Many of the miraculous claims in the Bible probably did not happen.
4. The book of Genesis originated from pagan myths.
(source - http://www.patheos.com......)

I checked your link and found no corroboration for your claims here. Where on that website do we find C.S. Lewis saying any of those things? Could you have made a mistake?

Yes, for some reason the link didn't copy all the way.

lol. Or maybe you didn't want us to know you were quoting a blog. Or that these were quotes of Lewis when he was a bone-headed atheist. As soon as the atheist begins to be smarmy, I know I've won.

Here it is - http://www.patheos.com...

Why would comments made by an atheist before he became a Christian "shake your faith"? Because both you and the author of the blog want to create the false impression that the Christian Lewis had these beliefs. It is telling that you feel you have to lie. How strong can your argument be if it needs a skeleton of lies?

Since C.S. Lewis did not/could not explain why he picked Christianity over other religions or Deism,....

He could, and he did. You are aware that the claim that he did not/could not is simply your opinion right?

It is a fact that he did not (feel free to prove me wrong). It is my opinion that he could not.

I did feel like it. So I did. And your opinion was as worthless as your so called "fact".

I was hoping a Christian could explain with facts and logic as to why they picked Christianity.

I didn't actually "pick" Christianity. I was looking for something true, and Christianity was true. There were no other choices. As Lewis says in Surprised by Joy,

Regarding Surprised by Joy, I was specifically looking for his reasoning process using facts (that can be proven) and logic. That was one of the primary reasons I read his books. I did not find it.

Ah ha! Beaten by logic, the smarmy atheist will attempt to morph is complaint. Now his claim is not that Lewis did not explain why he choose Christianity, but that Lewis did not show his "reasoning process using facts (that can be proven) and logic." That is quite a morph! This doofus wants Lewis to explain a personal and spiritual inner transformation using "facts (that can be proven) and logic".

I thought it was true also but knew that some holes needed buttoning up. I also felt there was nothing wrong with skepticism because the truth can withstand scrutiny. In my search to button up the holes, I found the holes were too significant to overcome with logic and facts.

One wonders what passes as logic in your mind.

You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me.

There was only one choice. Jesus met him. Christianity was true. He accepted truth.

CS Lewis would only say that if it was the best and only argument he could make.

Why? Lewis would say what was true. And that is what he did. That you were too dim and jaded to see it is no failing of his.

It says volumes that he could not say more.

Yeah. He should have put convincing you as his priority. That way his writing would not have said volumes.

Atheists, again I ask. Is stupidity necessary for atheism? I now understand the verse, "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God". in more depth and with empirical understanding.
matt8800
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6/15/2016 2:38:00 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/15/2016 12:46:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/15/2016 2:20:23 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/14/2016 10:55:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:

When I was a Christian, C.S. Lewis was my favorite Christian author. He was regarded by much of the Christian world as a hero because he was a logical intellect they could claim.

One book, Mere Christianity, made the argument in favor of Christianity. He started by first arguing the existence of a God. His most compelling argument was the existence of objective morality (I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding the existence of objective/subjective morality).

When he made the jump from arguing the existence of a God to arguing the truths in Christianity, he neglected to arguing why he picked Christianity.

Actually he didn't. You just missed it.

Where is it? Id be interesting in reading it, if it does exist, which I doubt.

http://www.cslewisinstitute.org...
Downing starts his work with two contrasting quotes from C.S. Lewis. At age seventeen, Lewis wrote to longtime friend Arthur Greeves, "I believe in no religion. There is absolutely no proof for any of them, and from a philosophical standpoint Christianity is not even the best." Fifteen years later, Lewis wrote to Arthur, "Christianity is God expressing Himself through what we call f'real things'. . . namely, the actual incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection" (p. 11).

On the intellectual side of things, G.K. Chesterton had a significant influence on Lewis. As Lewis read The Everlasting Man, he appreciated Chesterton's humor and was surprised by the power of his presentation. He began to feel that "Christianity was very sensible 'apart from its Christianity'" (p. 130). Lewis also found that he was drawn to many other authors that had this strange Christian twist:Spenser, Milton, Johnson, MacDonald, and others. In contrast, those with whom he theoretically agreed-Voltaire, Gibbon, Mill, Wells, and Shaw-seemed thin and "tinny." On top of this, some of the brightest, most intelligent at Oxford were also "supernaturalists." People like Neville Coghill, Hugo Dyson, and J.R.R. Tolkien were kindred spirits and also Christians. One by one, the arguments that were obstacles to faith were removed.

https://www.ewtn.com...
the story of Lewis' conversion recounted in Surprised by Joy is a story of resistance and surrender. From this viewpoint the book can be seen as a diary in which the writer notes the movements of his soul, shaken, enthralled and at last overcome by God's assault, a diary of Joy

https://www.gci.org...
When God drew Lewis" heart to himself, he became conscious of the presence of his own sinfulness. "For the first time I examined myself with a seriously practical purpose," wrote Lewis. "And there I found what appalled me: a zoo of lusts, a bedlam of ambitions, a nursery of fears, a harem of fondled hatreds. My name is legion."

It was on Sept. 22, 1931 that Lewis said yes to the Lord"s offer of himself "according to his testimony, this was the exact day he became a Christian. It happened on a ride to the Whipsnade Zoo with his brother, Warren. Lewis tells about it in his book, Surprised by Joy: "I know very well when, but hardly how, the final step was taken. I was driven to Whipsnade one sunny morning. When we set out I did not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and when we reached the zoo I did. Yet I had not exactly spent the journey in thought. Nor in great emotion". It was more like when a man, after long sleep, still lying motionless in bed, becomes aware that he is now awake."


In Surprised by Joy, Lewis described that final time before he put his faith in Christ as a period of free and enlightened choice:

The odd thing was that before God closed in on me, I was in fact offered what now appears a moment of wholly free choice". I became aware that I was holding something at bay, or shutting something out". I felt myself being, there and then, given a free choice. I could open the door or keep it shut; I could unbuckle the armor or keep it on. Neither choice was presented as a duty; no threat or promise was attached to either, though I knew that to open the door or to take off the corslet meant the incalculable.

He picked Christianity because it first picked him. Perhaps that is why you missed all he said about it in "Surprised by Joy".

All that is a subjective, emotional experience. While we could debate why that seemed real to him, the fact that that was the only thing he could offer only reinforced my doubt.

Basically, he chose Christianity because it "felt" right. Feelings are a shaky foundation to try to establish truth.
matt8800
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6/15/2016 3:21:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/15/2016 2:08:04 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/15/2016 2:20:23 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/14/2016 10:55:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:


So, your opinion that Christianity is the true religion is merely a subjective opinion?

No, but you seem to think so. So why would it seem ironic to you when you don't seem to see irony in all the other subjective things of which I gave 2 examples?

Those examples you gave are not objective truths but merely subjective opinions.

As you think religious claims are. Your bias is showing.

Are Muslims claims about Islam subjective or objective?

That would make a Muslim's opinion about Islam equally as valid. You don't find that ironic?

No, because I don't stupidly think all religious claims have equal validity. I asked you why did you find it ironic? You dodged to attack a position you assumed of me.

I find it ironic because everybody is equally sure their contradicting views are correct. I do not believe that Muslims are any less intelligent than Christians.

His only statement as to why he picked Christianity was that it was simply the most obvious choice but did not explain.

He felt that Christianity was the most logical and only true choice and he said so several times in many different ways.

I have read at least a dozen of his books, including a book of quotes and Mere Christianity at least twice. He never explains why Christianity is the obvious choice.

Because he met Jesus. It was a no-brainer after that.

Since I don't think that any voice audibly spoke to him or a body appeared to him, it was a subjective, emotional experience. Nobody can reasonably expect me to be swayed by that.

Here are some other statements he made in other writings:

1. The apostle Paul was unclear and confusing, essentially a poor communicator.
2. The Bible was full of inconsistencies.
3. Many of the miraculous claims in the Bible probably did not happen.
4. The book of Genesis originated from pagan myths.
(source - http://www.patheos.com......)

I checked your link and found no corroboration for your claims here. Where on that website do we find C.S. Lewis saying any of those things? Could you have made a mistake?

Yes, for some reason the link didn't copy all the way.

lol. Or maybe you didn't want us to know you were quoting a blog. Or that these were quotes of Lewis when he was a bone-headed atheist. As soon as the atheist begins to be smarmy, I know I've won.

If I found exactly where he made those statements, would it make a difference?

The first quote about Paul:
"I cannot be the only reader who has wondered why God, having given him [St. Paul] so many gifts, withheld from him (what would seem so necessary for the first Christian theologian) that of lucidity and orderly exposition."

That was attributed to Reflections on the Psalms, published in 1958. He became a Christian in 1930.

"Whatever view we hold of the divine authority of Scripture must make room for".the apparent inconsistencies between the genealogies in Matt. i and Luke ii; with the accounts of the death of Judas in Matt. xxvii 5 and Acts i 18-19".It seems to me that [this and other facts] rule out the view that every statement in Scripture must be historical truth."

That statement was attributed to a letter to Clyde S Kilby, May 7, 1959 from CS Lewis.

Here it is - http://www.patheos.com...

Why would comments made by an atheist before he became a Christian "shake your faith"? Because both you and the author of the blog want to create the false impression that the Christian Lewis had these beliefs. It is telling that you feel you have to lie. How strong can your argument be if it needs a skeleton of lies?

As you can see from my above comments, I was originally correct. If it made a difference, I can provide the sources for the other quotes also but its moot if you are going to just dismiss it.

Since C.S. Lewis did not/could not explain why he picked Christianity over other religions or Deism,....

He could, and he did. You are aware that the claim that he did not/could not is simply your opinion right?

It is a fact that he did not (feel free to prove me wrong). It is my opinion that he could not.

I did feel like it. So I did. And your opinion was as worthless as your so called "fact".

It remains a fact. You have so far been unable to attribute any quotations which use empirical facts and logic in explaining why he specifically chose Christianity.

I was hoping a Christian could explain with facts and logic as to why they picked Christianity.

I didn't actually "pick" Christianity. I was looking for something true, and Christianity was true. There were no other choices. As Lewis says in Surprised by Joy,

Regarding Surprised by Joy, I was specifically looking for his reasoning process using facts (that can be proven) and logic. That was one of the primary reasons I read his books. I did not find it.

Ah ha! Beaten by logic, the smarmy atheist will attempt to morph is complaint. Now his claim is not that Lewis did not explain why he choose Christianity, but that Lewis did not show his "reasoning process using facts (that can be proven) and logic." That is quite a morph! This doofus wants Lewis to explain a personal and spiritual inner transformation using "facts (that can be proven) and logic".

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Subjective emotional feelings are not evidence otherwise Tom Cruise's claims of the validity of Scientology would be considered credible.

I thought it was true also but knew that some holes needed buttoning up. I also felt there was nothing wrong with skepticism because the truth can withstand scrutiny. In my search to button up the holes, I found the holes were too significant to overcome with logic and facts.

One wonders what passes as logic in your mind.

Yes, I am sure you wonder what passes for logic in any mind.

You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me.

There was only one choice. Jesus met him. Christianity was true. He accepted truth.

Jesus met him? Where? At the local deli for lunch? An imagined voice in your head is not meeting someone or schizophrenics have legitimate claims.

CS Lewis would only say that if it was the best and only argument he could make.

Why? Lewis would say what was true. And that is what he did. That you were too dim and jaded to see it is no failing of his.

I believe his claim to have an emotional experience to be true. So what?

It says volumes that he could not say more.

Yeah. He should have put convincing you as his priority. That way his writing would not have said volumes.

He wrote books aimed at convincing people so obviously it was his priority. Is evidence and logic too much to ask for?

Atheists, again I ask. Is stupidity necessary for atheism? I now understand the verse, "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God". in more depth and with empirical understanding.

Do you understand the statement, "eeny meeny miny mo, catch a tiger by the toe"? Its just as useful.

Did you know that you can debate without resorting to insults and calling people stupid? If you want to prove me wrong, simply present facts and logic. Your conduct only illustrates that religion does nothing to improve a person.
ethang5
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6/16/2016 11:05:39 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/15/2016 2:38:00 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/15/2016 12:46:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/15/2016 2:20:23 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/14/2016 10:55:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:

When I was a Christian, C.S. Lewis was my favorite Christian author. He was regarded by much of the Christian world as a hero because he was a logical intellect they could claim.

One book, Mere Christianity, made the argument in favor of Christianity. He started by first arguing the existence of a God. His most compelling argument was the existence of objective morality (I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding the existence of objective/subjective morality).

When he made the jump from arguing the existence of a God to arguing the truths in Christianity, he neglected to arguing why he picked Christianity.

Actually he didn't. You just missed it.

Where is it? Id be interesting in reading it, if it does exist, which I doubt.

http://www.cslewisinstitute.org...
Downing starts his work with two contrasting quotes from C.S. Lewis. At age seventeen, Lewis wrote to longtime friend Arthur Greeves, "I believe in no religion. There is absolutely no proof for any of them, and from a philosophical standpoint Christianity is not even the best." Fifteen years later, Lewis wrote to Arthur, "Christianity is God expressing Himself through what we call f'real things'. . . namely, the actual incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection" (p. 11).

On the intellectual side of things, G.K. Chesterton had a significant influence on Lewis. As Lewis read The Everlasting Man, he appreciated Chesterton's humor and was surprised by the power of his presentation. He began to feel that "Christianity was very sensible 'apart from its Christianity'" (p. 130). Lewis also found that he was drawn to many other authors that had this strange Christian twist:Spenser, Milton, Johnson, MacDonald, and others. In contrast, those with whom he theoretically agreed-Voltaire, Gibbon, Mill, Wells, and Shaw-seemed thin and "tinny." On top of this, some of the brightest, most intelligent at Oxford were also "supernaturalists." People like Neville Coghill, Hugo Dyson, and J.R.R. Tolkien were kindred spirits and also Christians. One by one, the arguments that were obstacles to faith were removed.

https://www.ewtn.com...
the story of Lewis' conversion recounted in Surprised by Joy is a story of resistance and surrender. From this viewpoint the book can be seen as a diary in which the writer notes the movements of his soul, shaken, enthralled and at last overcome by God's assault, a diary of Joy

https://www.gci.org...
When God drew Lewis" heart to himself, he became conscious of the presence of his own sinfulness. "For the first time I examined myself with a seriously practical purpose," wrote Lewis. "And there I found what appalled me: a zoo of lusts, a bedlam of ambitions, a nursery of fears, a harem of fondled hatreds. My name is legion."

It was on Sept. 22, 1931 that Lewis said yes to the Lord"s offer of himself "according to his testimony, this was the exact day he became a Christian. It happened on a ride to the Whipsnade Zoo with his brother, Warren. Lewis tells about it in his book, Surprised by Joy: "I know very well when, but hardly how, the final step was taken. I was driven to Whipsnade one sunny morning. When we set out I did not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and when we reached the zoo I did. Yet I had not exactly spent the journey in thought. Nor in great emotion". It was more like when a man, after long sleep, still lying motionless in bed, becomes aware that he is now awake."


In Surprised by Joy, Lewis described that final time before he put his faith in Christ as a period of free and enlightened choice:

The odd thing was that before God closed in on me, I was in fact offered what now appears a moment of wholly free choice". I became aware that I was holding something at bay, or shutting something out". I felt myself being, there and then, given a free choice. I could open the door or keep it shut; I could unbuckle the armor or keep it on. Neither choice was presented as a duty; no threat or promise was attached to either, though I knew that to open the door or to take off the corslet meant the incalculable.

He picked Christianity because it first picked him. Perhaps that is why you missed all he said about it in "Surprised by Joy".

All that is a subjective, emotional experience.

Does not mean it is untrue, unless you have a private definition of subjective. You asked for his reason. That is his reason. His reason does not need to pass any personal test of yours. And of course einstein, a religious conversion experience would be subjective.

While we could debate why that seemed real to him, the fact that that was the only thing he could offer only reinforced my doubt.

Yes, the purpose of the story was to reassure YOUR doubt. The story was to tell what happened, not to convince atheist dweebs.Thus he offered what happened, which was the only thing an honest person would offer. Your doubt would be no concern of his.

Basically, he chose Christianity because it "felt" right.

Well, if you will let your stupidity trump what the man actually said, then you can "win" every time. The man said he was "....enthralled and at last overcome by God's assault,... and "...God closed in on me,...". You dishonestly want to dumb it down to "felt right" because you have no argument. Your only play here is smarmy dishonesty.

Feelings are a shaky foundation to try to establish truth.

He was not "establishing truth", he was telling us the personal story of his conversion. Continue being a troll if you must, but please stop being an idiot.
ethang5
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6/16/2016 1:33:10 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/15/2016 3:21:37 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/15/2016 2:08:04 PM, ethang5 wrote:

Are Muslims claims about Islam subjective or objective?

Doesn't matter. Your bias is showing.

That would make a Muslim's opinion about Islam equally as valid. You don't find that ironic?

No, because I don't stupidly think all religious claims have equal validity. I asked you why did you find it ironic? You dodged to attack a position you assumed of me.

I find it ironic because everybody is equally sure their contradicting views are correct. I do not believe that Muslims are any less intelligent than Christians.

Then you should have found my 2 subjective examples ironic also. But you didn't. Showing your bias and your irrationality.

I have read at least a dozen of his books, including a book of quotes and Mere Christianity at least twice. He never explains why Christianity is the obvious choice.

Because he met Jesus. It was a no-brainer after that.

Since I don't think that any voice audibly spoke to him or a body appeared to him, it was a subjective, emotional experience. Nobody can reasonably expect me to be swayed by that.

He was. That is HIS given reason. It need not be objective or validated by you.

Here are some other statements he made in other writings:

I checked your link and found no corroboration for your claims here. Where on that website do we find C.S. Lewis saying any of those things? Could you have made a mistake?

Yes, for some reason the link didn't copy all the way.

lol. Or maybe you didn't want us to know you were quoting a blog. Or that these were quotes of Lewis when he was a bone-headed atheist. As soon as the atheist begins to be smarmy, I know I've won.

If I found exactly where he made those statements, would it make a difference?

Yes. You would have lost the potential of having the dishonest slant seem real.

The first quote about Paul:

That was attributed to Reflections on the Psalms, published in 1958. He became a Christian in 1930.

He was explaining how he used to think before he became a Christian.

That statement was attributed to a letter to Clyde S Kilby, May 7, 1959 from CS Lewis.

Kilby was doing a formal study of Lewis' work and life. Lewis was explaining his mindset before he became a Christian in response to a question from Kilby. Read the context of the letter.

Why would comments made by an atheist before he became a Christian "shake your faith"? Because both you and the author of the blog want to create the false impression that the Christian Lewis had these beliefs. It is telling that you feel you have to lie. How strong can your argument be if it needs a skeleton of lies?

As you can see from my above comments, I was originally correct.

You are not correct if Lewis wrote, after he became a Christian, of what he believed before he became a christian. Taking a persons quote about a past time and trying to make people believe it is the current view of the quotee is dishonest.

If it made a difference, I can provide the sources for the other quotes also but its moot if you are going to just dismiss it.

In this instance, the source does not matter as much as the date in which the quote is referring. You have been caught in a lie.

Since C.S. Lewis did not/could not explain why he picked Christianity over other religions or Deism,....

He could, and he did. You are aware that the claim that he did not/could not is simply your opinion right?

It is a fact that he did not (feel free to prove me wrong). It is my opinion that he could not.

I did feel like it. So I did. And your opinion was as worthless as your so called "fact".

It remains a fact.

No. It is a lie. And it will remain a lie for as long as you tout it.

You have so far been unable to attribute any quotations which use empirical facts and logic in explaining why he specifically chose Christianity.

Dishonest morph. You asked why he chose Christianity. His reason need not satisfy any ad-hoc standard set by you.

Regarding Surprised by Joy, I was specifically looking for his reasoning process using facts (that can be proven) and logic. That was one of the primary reasons I read his books. I did not find it.

Ah ha! Beaten by logic, the smarmy atheist will attempt to morph his complaint. Now his claim is not that Lewis did not explain why he choose Christianity, but that Lewis did not show his "reasoning process using facts (that can be proven) and logic." That is quite a morph! This doofus wants Lewis to explain a personal and spiritual inner transformation using "facts (that can be proven) and logic".

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Says who? What is extraordinary evidence? To be respected here, your little sayings will have to have some logic to them, not just sound cute.

Subjective emotional feelings are not evidence otherwise Tom Cruise's claims of the validity of Scientology would be considered credible.

Lewis was not attesting to the truth of Christianity, he was attesting to the truth of his experience. They aren't the same thing. You asked for his personal reasons. Those reasons need not go through any hoops for you. You give yourself far too much authority here.

You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me.

There was only one choice. Jesus met him. Christianity was true. He accepted truth.

Jesus met him? Where? At the local deli for lunch? An imagined voice in your head is not meeting someone or schizophrenics have legitimate claims.

Either accept his reason, or reject it. But you cannot change it, or require it to satisfy some personal criteria of yours. Look in the mirror, you aren't in charge.

CS Lewis would only say that if it was the best and only argument he could make.

Why? Lewis would say what was true. And that is what he did. That you were too dim and jaded to see it is no failing of his.

It says volumes that he could not say more.

Yeah. He should have put convincing you as his priority. That way his writing would not have said volumes.

He wrote books aimed at convincing people so obviously it was his priority. Is evidence and logic too much to ask for?

He wrote books aimed at convincing rational people. And he has, and continues to, convince millions of rational people.

Atheists, again I ask. Is stupidity necessary for atheism? I now understand the verse, "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God". in more depth and with empirical understanding.

Do you understand the statement, "eeny meeny miny mo, catch a tiger by the toe"? Its just as useful.

To whom? The verse in the Bible is more useful to me, and to millions of others. Your views are just the irrational opinion of some internet dweeb.

Did you know that you can debate without resorting to insults and calling people stupid?

And when I debate non-stupid people, that is what I do.

If you want to prove me wrong, simply present facts and logic.

As I have. But fortunately for me, facts and logic are alien to you, so we get lolz as a bonus.

Your conduct only illustrates that religion does nothing to improve a person.

lol. You should have met me before I became a Christian.

I eviscerated your stupidity. You don't like that. I did not turn the other cheek, you dislike that. Tough cookies. Stop swing that battle-axe of stupidity around like a badge of honor and things will smooth out for you.

Otherwise, you get exactly what you give.