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Homosexuals and flamboyancy

AWSM0055
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6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I imagine many "normal" homosexuals get pissed off at this as well, since it muddies the message that "gay people are just like you and me".

Are you a homosexual? If so, would you agree?
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Willows
Posts: 2,087
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6/19/2016 3:54:23 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I imagine many "normal" homosexuals get pissed off at this as well, since it muddies the message that "gay people are just like you and me".

Are you a homosexual? If so, would you agree?

"I am not homophobic.....but"
Yes you are homophobic!
What about the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some heterosexuals? Does that paint them in a bad light and make them appear retarded?
So why single out homosexuals?
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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6/19/2016 4:20:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I had a homosexual male sponsee some years ago. He wasn't exactly "flamboyant", but he was flamboyant enough to be obviously gay. And it did make me a little bit uncomfortable to be around him.

But as I considered this response, on my part, I began to realize that I was just uncomfortable because it was an unusual scenario for me: a man being with a man who is noticeably gay. It's not that I was worried anyone would think I'm gay, too. It was just that some of the 'normal' parameters of social interaction that I had always understood and taken for granted were not there with this fellow. And that was my problem, not his. Because he wasn't behaving in any way offensive. He was just being himself.

Once I accepted that I was just experiencing something I wasn't comfortably familiar with, my confusion was gone, and I was easily able to just walk through it. 'Dave' was a great guy. Handsome, young, intelligent, energetic, and yes, a bit flamboyantly gay. And there was no reason for me not to appreciate him for all that he is.

I'm much older now, and have experienced lots of strange things and people in my life. And to tell the truth, I think I value the stranger ones more than the 'normal' ones. I have come to understand that it's the weird and uncomfortable that piques my curiosity and attention, and makes my life more interesting.

So God bless those who walk their own way. Even when it makes the rest of us uncomfortable.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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6/19/2016 9:31:41 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I imagine many "normal" homosexuals get pissed off at this as well, since it muddies the message that "gay people are just like you and me".

Are you a homosexual? If so, would you agree?

What's wrong with being flamboyant?

Why do you think this bothers you so much? Does it disturb you when men take on stereotypically feminine traits? Why, do you think? Is there something wrong with feminity? Or do you think people should conform to the gender stereotypes they were born into?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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6/19/2016 11:13:49 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.
But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals.
I think this highlights just how complex gender/sex issues can be, Awsm. I accept that one can be relaxed about homosexuality but uncomfortable about male effeminacy. (This turned up culturally in ancient Greece and Rome, for example: it was tolerated for men to have sex with another man in certain contexts, but t'was generally considered better to give than receive. :p)

Life's no less complex today. There are men who view themselves as female, and consider an interest in men to be heterosexual; there are men who view themselves as female, are attracted to women and consider themselves lesbians. The 1970s saw the advent of 'Castro Clone' gay men who were all about moustaches, working class clothes and bulging muscles [https://c3.staticflickr.com...]. That has since transformed into a husky ideal that gay culture now calls 'bear' -- but which 40 years ago would have been adamantly viewed as straight [http://www.maximumawesome.com...]. Then there are emos, metrosexuals and transvestites who dress and act effeminately but view themselves sexually as hetero. [http://www.mynewhair.info...][https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...]

Given the diversity of human psychology, pretty much any set of simple sex and gender roles society sets will get messed up around the margins; but such diversity has been around since we've had records, and the larger and more individualistic the society, the more of it one will see. It's hard to be comfortable with all of it at first glance; society offers no frame to understand it, and there's no way to know what to expect.

On the other hand, what if anything should be done about it, and why? Is it especially beneficial to have an ultra-masculine father, brother, husband, boss or co-worker? Is it especially harmful not to? Is it okay if Daddy wears a dress on the stage of a theatre, but not if he wears it in the audience? Is it okay if Daddy shrieks at a mouse when he has a wife, but not when he has a husband?
Rukado
Posts: 527
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6/20/2016 10:48:28 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality

Then I have no interest in reading your post, if you feel so compelled to cloud your topic is disclaimers.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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6/21/2016 2:10:40 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 3:54:23 PM, Willows wrote:
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I imagine many "normal" homosexuals get pissed off at this as well, since it muddies the message that "gay people are just like you and me".

Are you a homosexual? If so, would you agree?

"I am not homophobic.....but"
Yes you are homophobic!
What about the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some heterosexuals? Does that paint them in a bad light and make them appear retarded?

Absolutely, and I would not hang around those types of people.

So why single out homosexuals?

I'm didn't mean to, but I was trying to make a point regarding a very particular group of homosexuals, not homosexual in general. Besides, disliking a single stereotype that is sometimes embraces by some homosexuals does not mean I dislike homosexuality, thus I'm not homophobic.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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6/21/2016 2:17:55 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 4:20:37 PM, PureX wrote:
I had a homosexual male sponsee some years ago. He wasn't exactly "flamboyant", but he was flamboyant enough to be obviously gay. And it did make me a little bit uncomfortable to be around him.

But as I considered this response, on my part, I began to realize that I was just uncomfortable because it was an unusual scenario for me: a man being with a man who is noticeably gay. It's not that I was worried anyone would think I'm gay, too. It was just that some of the 'normal' parameters of social interaction that I had always understood and taken for granted were not there with this fellow. And that was my problem, not his. Because he wasn't behaving in any way offensive. He was just being himself.

True. Very true.

Once I accepted that I was just experiencing something I wasn't comfortably familiar with, my confusion was gone, and I was easily able to just walk through it. 'Dave' was a great guy. Handsome, young, intelligent, energetic, and yes, a bit flamboyantly gay. And there was no reason for me not to appreciate him for all that he is.

I'm much older now, and have experienced lots of strange things and people in my life. And to tell the truth, I think I value the stranger ones more than the 'normal' ones. I have come to understand that it's the weird and uncomfortable that piques my curiosity and attention, and makes my life more interesting.

So God bless those who walk their own way. Even when it makes the rest of us uncomfortable.

Well said. I guess I just should change my attitude. Nonetheless, I think the stereotype still hurts the LGBT movement when it comes to other more socially conservative people, because sometimes they (social conservatives and religious people) don't have the opportunity to be exposed to homosexuals because the only info they get is from the loud ones in the media.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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6/21/2016 2:37:35 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 9:31:41 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I imagine many "normal" homosexuals get pissed off at this as well, since it muddies the message that "gay people are just like you and me".

Are you a homosexual? If so, would you agree?

What's wrong with being flamboyant?

It's obnoxious and attention seeking, thus off putting.

Why do you think this bothers you so much?

See above.

Does it disturb you when men take on stereotypically feminine traits?

It doesn't disturb me, I just find it annoying, especially when I know they are simply acting and it is something they can help (unless they are transgender, which is another issue entirely). It strikes me as a look-at-me-I'm-special kind of thing, which they try to make as apparent as possible, when really no one cares.

Why, do you think?

It is just very very strange and in-your-face.

Is there something wrong with feminity?

Not inherently, but super-feminity can be annoying for both men and women, especially men though, since it doesn't really...fit...

Or do you think people should conform to the gender stereotypes they were born into?

Unless they plan on changing their sex via surgery or at least hiding their former sex better and becoming transgender, then yes, and that is simply nature (men have deep voices, by nature. Opposite is true for females. Feminit men have to seemingly force their feminit voice, regardless of their sexuality, which is both not necessary and annoying).

Of course, gay men don't have to act like big burly G.I. Joes, since most men aren't even like that. Simply act as they would normally, regardless of what the media tells them or how they think they should act based on their sexuality.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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6/21/2016 2:52:02 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 11:13:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.
But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals.
I think this highlights just how complex gender/sex issues can be, Awsm. I accept that one can be relaxed about homosexuality but uncomfortable about male effeminacy. (This turned up culturally in ancient Greece and Rome, for example: it was tolerated for men to have sex with another man in certain contexts, but t'was generally considered better to give than receive. :p)

Life's no less complex today. There are men who view themselves as female, and consider an interest in men to be heterosexual; there are men who view themselves as female, are attracted to women and consider themselves lesbians. The 1970s saw the advent of 'Castro Clone' gay men who were all about moustaches, working class clothes and bulging muscles [https://c3.staticflickr.com...]. That has since transformed into a husky ideal that gay culture now calls 'bear' -- but which 40 years ago would have been adamantly viewed as straight [http://www.maximumawesome.com...]. Then there are emos, metrosexuals and transvestites who dress and act effeminately but view themselves sexually as hetero. [http://www.mynewhair.info...][https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...]

Given the diversity of human psychology, pretty much any set of simple sex and gender roles society sets will get messed up around the margins; but such diversity has been around since we've had records, and the larger and more individualistic the society, the more of it one will see. It's hard to be comfortable with all of it at first glance; society offers no frame to understand it, and there's no way to know what to expect.

On the other hand, what if anything should be done about it, and why? Is it especially beneficial to have an ultra-masculine father, brother, husband, boss or co-worker? Is it especially harmful not to? Is it okay if Daddy wears a dress on the stage of a theatre, but not if he wears it in the audience? Is it okay if Daddy shrieks at a mouse when he has a wife, but not when he has a husband?

You bring up some good points, but I'm focusing more on the common, ordinary homosexuals (man that identifies as a man that likes men sexually) that act effeminate simply because that what the media tells them.

Transgender and transvestites are a different issue entirely, and I'm fine with them, but homosexuals that have really no reason to act that way, and do it simply to flaunt their sexuality when no one cares, are the ones that annoy me.

Make no mistake, this effeminacy annoys me regardless of sexuality or even gender. I'm simply focusing on homosexuals because that is what the media is often aimed at.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,612
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6/21/2016 2:52:29 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I imagine many "normal" homosexuals get pissed off at this as well, since it muddies the message that "gay people are just like you and me".

Are you a homosexual? If so, would you agree?

I can understand your unease with effeminate men. They make me uneasy too. I have two gay brothers and neither are that way. They don't hang out with effeminate men either. Maybe that tells you something.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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6/21/2016 3:00:31 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/20/2016 10:48:28 PM, Rukado wrote:
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality

Then I have no interest in reading your post, if you feel so compelled to cloud your topic is disclaimers.

So you judge and reject an entire post by two disclaimer lines?

*slow clap*

The reason a inserted the disclaimers was so that super sensitive people - such as yourself - don't take my post the wrong way or take offence to something other than was intended, as this is a super-sensitive topic.

Moreover, the disclaimers are meant to refine what I'm talking about rather than cloud it, so I don't know how you figured that one out.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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6/21/2016 3:03:43 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:52:29 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I imagine many "normal" homosexuals get pissed off at this as well, since it muddies the message that "gay people are just like you and me".

Are you a homosexual? If so, would you agree?

I can understand your unease with effeminate men. They make me uneasy too. I have two gay brothers and neither are that way. They don't hang out with effeminate men either. Maybe that tells you something.

Exactly my point. Thank you.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,612
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6/21/2016 3:05:28 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 3:03:43 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:52:29 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I imagine many "normal" homosexuals get pissed off at this as well, since it muddies the message that "gay people are just like you and me".

Are you a homosexual? If so, would you agree?

I can understand your unease with effeminate men. They make me uneasy too. I have two gay brothers and neither are that way. They don't hang out with effeminate men either. Maybe that tells you something.

Exactly my point. Thank you.

I want to be clear though, I don't have anything against effeminate men, they just make me feel uneasy.
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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6/21/2016 9:30:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:17:55 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 6/19/2016 4:20:37 PM, PureX wrote:
I had a homosexual male sponsee some years ago. He wasn't exactly "flamboyant", but he was flamboyant enough to be obviously gay. And it did make me a little bit uncomfortable to be around him.

But as I considered this response, on my part, I began to realize that I was just uncomfortable because it was an unusual scenario for me: a man being with a man who is noticeably gay. It's not that I was worried anyone would think I'm gay, too. It was just that some of the 'normal' parameters of social interaction that I had always understood and taken for granted were not there with this fellow. And that was my problem, not his. Because he wasn't behaving in any way offensive. He was just being himself.

True. Very true.

Once I accepted that I was just experiencing something I wasn't comfortably familiar with, my confusion was gone, and I was easily able to just walk through it. 'Dave' was a great guy. Handsome, young, intelligent, energetic, and yes, a bit flamboyantly gay. And there was no reason for me not to appreciate him for all that he is.

I'm much older now, and have experienced lots of strange things and people in my life. And to tell the truth, I think I value the stranger ones more than the 'normal' ones. I have come to understand that it's the weird and uncomfortable that piques my curiosity and attention, and makes my life more interesting.

So God bless those who walk their own way. Even when it makes the rest of us uncomfortable.

Well said. I guess I just should change my attitude. Nonetheless, I think the stereotype still hurts the LGBT movement when it comes to other more socially conservative people, because sometimes they (social conservatives and religious people) don't have the opportunity to be exposed to homosexuals because the only info they get is from the loud ones in the media.

Homosexuals are people, too. And are as capable of foolish behaviors, and as deserving of criticism for it, as anyone else. There is no reason why they can't be held accountable for it just as the rest of us are. **chuckling**
Willows
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6/22/2016 3:40:49 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 3:03:43 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:52:29 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I imagine many "normal" homosexuals get pissed off at this as well, since it muddies the message that "gay people are just like you and me".

Are you a homosexual? If so, would you agree?

I can understand your unease with effeminate men. They make me uneasy too. I have two gay brothers and neither are that way. They don't hang out with effeminate men either. Maybe that tells you something.

Exactly my point. Thank you.

And my point is that whether it is some homosexuals or one homosexual or one aspect of homosexuality that one is taking objection to, it is homophobic.

I am not racist but.........
I am not homophobic but.......
I am not ignorant and arrogant but......

Indeed !
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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6/22/2016 3:46:06 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/19/2016 3:04:07 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
I myself am not homophobic, and I have no problems with homosexuality, either gay or lesbian.

But holy mother of a$$, do I hate the stereotypical flamboyant nature of some (key word: some) homosexuals. I think it paints homosexuals in general in a really bad light (making them appear just plain retarded) and I think it makes homophobia worse because that's what homophobes imagine gay people to be like (which is not necessarily true).

I love going to a gay bar with a group of homosexual men. They are freakin hilarious - and nobody can dance to Y.M.C.A. like they can.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."