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If you were wrong about God's existence

Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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6/21/2016 5:11:31 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died
Known how?

Suppose that you awoke with some memory of having expected to die, and met a wondrous being.

How could you be confident that:

1) You actually had died, and not simply expected to;
2) The wondrous being was metaphysical and not simply an unexplained physical phenomenon;
3) It was honest, and had neither falsified its communications to you nor any of your memories or evidence;
4) It had created the universe you presently occupy; and
5) It had done so alone and unassisted?

Without answering these objections, the question is epistemologically invalid.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,232
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6/21/2016 5:16:35 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

What would I be when I was questioning God? But a fun question would be "whens the sh!t gonna hit the fan? I want to watch!"
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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6/21/2016 5:33:58 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 5:11:31 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died
Known how?

Suppose that you awoke with some memory of having expected to die, and met a wondrous being.

How could you be confident that:

1) You actually had died, and not simply expected to;

This being allowed you to watch how you died, with your parachute failing to open after falling 35,000 feet and landing on cement.

2) The wondrous being was metaphysical and not simply an unexplained physical phenomenon;

This being showed you that everything in existence was produced by its mindwaves.

3) It was honest, and had neither falsified its communications to you nor any of your memories or evidence;

You could sense (at a keen and inhuman level) that the being was pure of heart.

4) It had created the universe you presently occupy; and

It showed you how it happened and let you watch.

5) It had done so alone and unassisted?

It showed you how it happened and let you watch. It was only this being alone and it was unassisted.

Without answering these objections, the question is epistemologically invalid.

How would you proceed to answer the initial questions?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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6/21/2016 5:34:59 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 5:16:35 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

What would I be when I was questioning God?

that's actually a good question.

But a fun question would be "whens the sh!t gonna hit the fan? I want to watch!"

Like the demise of humanity?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,232
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6/21/2016 5:39:56 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 5:34:59 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/21/2016 5:16:35 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

What would I be when I was questioning God?

that's actually a good question.

But a fun question would be "whens the sh!t gonna hit the fan? I want to watch!"

Like the demise of humanity?

That might be a fun watch depending on circumstances, but I was thinking bigger, the universe.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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6/21/2016 5:56:50 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 5:33:58 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/21/2016 5:11:31 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died
Known how?

Suppose that you awoke with some memory of having expected to die, and met a wondrous being.

How could you be confident that:

1) You actually had died, and not simply expected to;

This being allowed you to watch how you died, with your parachute failing to open after falling 35,000 feet and landing on cement.
How could that experience be authenticated and verified?

2) The wondrous being was metaphysical and not simply an unexplained physical phenomenon;
This being showed you that everything in existence was produced by its mindwaves.
How could that claim be validated and verified?

3) It was honest, and had neither falsified its communications to you nor any of your memories or evidence;
You could sense (at a keen and inhuman level) that the being was pure of heart.
How could that intuition be validated and verified?

4) It had created the universe you presently occupy; and
It showed you how it happened and let you watch.
How could that re-enactment be authenticated, validated and verified?

5) It had done so alone and unassisted?
It showed you how it happened and let you watch. It was only this being alone and it was unassisted.
How could that re-enactment be authenticated, validated and verified?

A new question:

6) What qualities make this being a deity and not simply a powerful being, and how can they be validated and verified?

Without answering these objections, the question is epistemologically invalid.
How would you proceed to answer the initial questions?

The question is still not epistemologically valid. It presupposes knowledge without explaining how any supporting evidence is authenticated, validated and verified. If you place trust in storytelling, intuitions and bare assertions, you're not even talking about knowledge.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/21/2016 6:56:38 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

What god are you talking about?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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6/21/2016 7:01:47 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

Depends really on which God. If it was Yahweh, I'd be confused and disappointed. If it was Allan I'd be scared sh*tless because...yeah. If it was just a general deistic kind of God, I'd be kinda pleased.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Cryo
Posts: 202
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6/21/2016 7:29:39 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

Well, if I died and discovered that God actually existed (assuming that I have good reason to believe that it actually is God and not some deception or misinterpretation) I'd be surprised and curious. Surprised because, well, I wouldn't see that coming, and curious as to what God was like.

Assuming I could talk to God, I'd have a lot of questions and then depending on the answers I could feel a lot of emotions. I could be happy, satisfied, angry, bitter, etc.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,232
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6/21/2016 8:07:53 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 7:01:47 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

Depends really on which God. If it was Yahweh, I'd be confused and disappointed. If it was Allan I'd be scared sh*tless because...yeah. If it was just a general deistic kind of God, I'd be kinda pleased.

What if it was L Ron Hubbard?
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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6/21/2016 1:13:05 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 8:07:53 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 7:01:47 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

Depends really on which God. If it was Yahweh, I'd be confused and disappointed. If it was Allan I'd be scared sh*tless because...yeah. If it was just a general deistic kind of God, I'd be kinda pleased.

What if it was L Ron Hubbard?

That, is simply not possible, at least not according to reality.

However, assuming "magic" is a thing, I would simply roll my eyes and walk away...
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
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6/22/2016 1:28:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

Assuming there are no negative consequences to me, my sole reaction would be, "Interesting." And I would move on.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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6/22/2016 1:32:11 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
How would a theist find out his or her god or gods did not exist? There would be no afterlife for them to exist in. This is a loaded and incoherent question.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,130
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6/22/2016 1:41:31 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

Do you ever put that hammer down? ;-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/22/2016 1:41:44 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

What god are you talking about?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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6/22/2016 2:38:18 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 1:28:30 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

Assuming there are no negative consequences to me, my sole reaction would be, "Interesting." And I would move on.

you wouldn't want to ask God questions?
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
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6/22/2016 2:38:57 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 2:38:18 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/22/2016 1:28:30 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

Assuming there are no negative consequences to me, my sole reaction would be, "Interesting." And I would move on.

you wouldn't want to ask God questions?

Maybe about certain scientific mysteries, etc. Nothing relevant to atheism, however.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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6/22/2016 2:39:04 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 1:41:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

What god are you talking about?

a maximally intelligent nameless entity
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/22/2016 2:48:31 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 2:39:04 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 6/22/2016 1:41:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

What god are you talking about?

a maximally intelligent nameless entity

In that case who would care?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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6/23/2016 3:41:19 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Let's suppose a hypothetical scenario where you knew whether or not God existed *after* you died and it's opposite of what you thought was true during the time that you were alive.

Theists: after you die you discover that God didn't exist.

Atheists: after you die you discover that God exists.

What questions would come to mind at that point? What would your emotional reaction be?

I wouldn't trust what I perceived anyway. I would very earnestly discount it as being a deception of the enemy.

It is absolutely absurd to think that any creature can deny God and deserves to be taken seriously, no matter how elaborate and convincing their abilities may be. How could such a being know such a thing? It is impossible to know, and no amount of sensual and mental augmentation is going to overcome this. I wouldn't be convinced. There is no miracle that can convince me of what I truly believe in with all sincerity.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,