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Modern Morality vs Christian Morality

matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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6/22/2016 11:08:48 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I have heard many Christians decrying the advent of modern immorality. What specifically are they referring to when claiming there is a decline in morals?

One of the best historical indicators as to how we have treated each other is murder rates. Rape was not as commonly reported nor was it taken as seriously. Child abuse was not talked about in the same way as it is today. Those two facts would indicate society cares more now about how we treat other fellow humans (and animals, for that matter) which is a moral consideration in itself. Blacks were treated atrociously and women and children were treated like chattel.

Today, the US has a murder rate of 4.5 per 100,000 people. The vast majority of the years from 1910 and on had a significantly higher murder rate than the present murder rate.

http://www.infoplease.com...
http://polyticks.com...

An interesting side note is that the murder rate is on average 30-40% higher in the religious bible belt than the secular east and west coast. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

Murder rates in medieval England were 10 times that of the 20th century England. http://www.nytimes.com...

Other than theists' obsessive hand-wringing about how others might break their religious rules regarding misuse of their genitals, how can they possibly think that modern morality is worse than it used to be over the last couple hundred years?

Is imagined genital misuse a more significant problem to theists than murder and other crimes such as rape and child abuse that usually comes with high murder rates?
Rukado
Posts: 527
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6/22/2016 11:28:18 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 11:08:48 PM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard many Christians decrying the advent of modern immorality. What specifically are they referring to when claiming there is a decline in morals?

If we define morality as beneficial behavior and immorality as harmful behavior, then morals are objectively declining. Rape is never treated lightly be a moral society. And, if anything, rape is treated more lightly today than ever before. Society is more approving of ever of behaviors that spread STDs, create children that need taxpayer support, etc.

To the person who's going to burn in agony in hell forever, they'll cry about how women and the blacks were treated in the past. That was an issue of pragmatics, making it moral.

Seriously, before modern technology and prosperity, a woman who got and STD or pregnant without a husband was royally screwed. Being what liberals now accept as moral would have been quick suicide, now liberals are just a burden on taxpayers.

Compared to a 100 years ago, our ability to prevent crime is a 1000 fold, with security cameras, DNA tests, etc.,, giving us the luxury of being softer on criminals maybe while lowing the crime rate. With prosperity affording us a welfare state, we've all but eliminated the primary motivator of crime: economics. See, matt8800, you're a complete idiot who lacks the ability to appreciate the realities of the past.

It's too bad we're wasting the benefits of technology and prosperity on the costs of immorality rather than having the paradise we could have instead.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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6/23/2016 12:01:39 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 11:08:48 PM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard many Christians decrying the advent of modern immorality. What specifically are they referring to when claiming there is a decline in morals?
Specifically: who controls them.

When Christian clergy controlled moral doctrine, they also controlled mass communications, and thus got to claim a bigger slice of economic productivity, greater clerical privilege, and greater influence over governments. In exchange, they helped make Christian leaders more powerful than leaders of any other faith.

Control of moral doctrine gave Christian clergy profound influence over public offices, education, key businesses, services and communications. With absolute control over what it was legal to say where, they were able to control worship and religious criticism, marginalise Jews, Muslims, polytheists, secularists as well as unfavoured Christian denominations, and it made them the only game in town when dealing with kings, emperors, dictators and presidents. Civic leaders ran society, but a monopoly on the moral high-ground meant churches also got to play middle-man between civic leaders and popular opinion, much as modern shock-jocks now seek to do.

So it's not so much humanitarian concerns like peace, the rule of law or social equity that make doctrinaire moralists grumble, because there are effective secular solutions for these problems, and Christians worried about such things work with secular services all the time.

Doctrinaire moralists miss control of public communications, the control of wealth, the right to swagger, to disrespect everyone else while demanding respect from them.

You can understand why they miss it, I suppose, but the reasons they give aren't the real reasons.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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6/23/2016 2:32:42 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 11:28:18 PM, Rukado wrote:
At 6/22/2016 11:08:48 PM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard many Christians decrying the advent of modern immorality. What specifically are they referring to when claiming there is a decline in morals?

If we define morality as beneficial behavior and immorality as harmful behavior, then morals are objectively declining. Rape is never treated lightly be a moral society. And, if anything, rape is treated more lightly today than ever before. Society is more approving of ever of behaviors that spread STDs, create children that need taxpayer support, etc.

I was going to say that you should research your responses before you post them but that would be silly of me to ask of a theist. Instead, I'll provide the facts to counter your unsubstantiated assertions.

Here is the early Christian church views on rape:

"Attitudes toward rape changed when the Roman Empire became Christianized. St. Augustine interpreted Lucretia's suicide as a possible admission that she had secretly encouraged the rapist, and Christian apologists regarded her as having committed the sin of involuntary sexual pleasure."

How modern morality has changed views on rape:

"Since the 1970s many changes have occurred in the perception of sexual assault due in large part to the feminist movement and its public characterization of rape as a crime of power and control rather than purely of sex. In some countries the women's liberation movement of the 1970s created the first rape crisis centers. This movement was led by the National Organization for Women (NOW). One of the first two rape crisis centers, the D.C. Rape Crisis Center, opened in 1972. It was created to promote sensitivity and understanding of rape and its effects on the victim.

Marital rape first became a crime in the United States in the state of South Dakota in 1975. In 1993, North Carolina became the last state to outlaw marital rape. The marital rape exemption was abolished in England and Wales in 1991 by the House of Lords, in its judicial capacity, in the case of R v R [1991] 1 AC 599 (more details).

In the 1980s, date or acquaintance rape first gained acknowledgment. Rape crisis centers were created to serve survivors of all forms of sexual violence during any phase of their healing process. Rape crisis centers and other community-based service providers continue to grow and serve their communities by providing direct services and prevention programming.

On September 2, 1998, the United Nations International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda delivered a precedent-setting verdict that made sexual violence a war crime. This was followed in November 1998 by the decision of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia that acts of rape may constitute torture under international humanitarian law."

https://en.wikipedia.org...

To the person who's going to burn in agony in hell forever, they'll cry about how women and the blacks were treated in the past. That was an issue of pragmatics, making it moral.

That's exactly my point. Your "Christian" morals tell you that the historical treatment of women and blacks was justified but irreligious morals categorize such treatment of people as immoral.

Seriously, before modern technology and prosperity, a woman who got and STD or pregnant without a husband was royally screwed. Being what liberals now accept as moral would have been quick suicide, now liberals are just a burden on taxpayers.

Someone must have forgotten to tell the Christian world we now have condoms that prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

Christian teen girls have higher rates of unwanted pregnancies than irreligious teen girls (that just blew your whole point out of the water). Maybe if someone were to educate those Christian teen girls about secular ideas of morality and responsibility, maybe they would get pregnant less often.

Before you try to refute that, here is my source: https://reproductive-health-journal.biomedcentral.com...

Compared to a 100 years ago, our ability to prevent crime is a 1000 fold, with security cameras, DNA tests, etc.,, giving us the luxury of being softer on criminals maybe while lowing the crime rate. With prosperity affording us a welfare state, we've all but eliminated the primary motivator of crime: economics. See, matt8800, you're a complete idiot who lacks the ability to appreciate the realities of the past.

Really?? Do you really think we need a security camera or a DNA test to know if someone was murdered? Don't you think the stab wound or gunshot wound might be evidence that a murder was committed? Good thing you are not a detective.

Regarding economic motivators, I dare you to provide your source. You don't have one. Its just more unsubstantiated garbage. This is the reason the irreligious don't take theists seriously. If you're going to push the point, I can provide sources and quotes so consider that before you respond.

It's too bad we're wasting the benefits of technology and prosperity on the costs of immorality rather than having the paradise we could have instead.

Two questions:

1. Can you describe in what ways exactly that the world is less moral?

2. What are the costs to this alleged immorality?

Please provide sources for both answers to avoid wasting more time on ill-conceived rebuttals.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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6/23/2016 3:01:09 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Heh....

First of all, Christian morality isn't enforced, it's self discipline.. Or more accurately, allowing God to transform you.

Second of all, statistics are no indication of the effectiveness of anything, especially when it comes to this. The premises are faulty.

Anyway, the difference between Christian morality and modern morality....

Modern morality says, "tolerance".

Godly morality says, "forgiveness".

Modern morality says, "Do what thou wilt under love is the whole of the law".

Godly morality says, "Love God who is The Ultimate Reality with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, love your neighbor as yourself."

Yeah, seems to me like the heart is very different.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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6/23/2016 3:52:23 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 3:01:09 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Heh....


First of all, Christian morality isn't enforced, it's self discipline..

Did I say something to lead you to believe I thought anyone's morality was enforced?

Or more accurately, allowing God to transform you.

Common english please?

Second of all, statistics are no indication of the effectiveness of anything, especially when it comes to this.

Spoken like a true theist. Ugh! Statistics! Yuck!

The premises are faulty.

Which ones precisely?

Anyway, the difference between Christian morality and modern morality....


Modern morality says, "tolerance".

Yes.

Godly morality says, "forgiveness".

If you say so but are you implying modern morality doesn't support forgiveness?

Modern morality says, "Do what thou wilt under love is the whole of the law".

Please repeat in plain English.

Godly morality says, "Love God who is The Ultimate Reality with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, love your neighbor as yourself."

OK, so basically that is the long way of saying to love god and others. That's pretty consistent with most religions. The irreligious do half of that.

Yeah, seems to me like the heart is very different.

Since I'm not religious, I cant love the object of a particular religion.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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6/23/2016 8:35:21 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Too late for what?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
difference
Posts: 177
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6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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6/23/2016 7:55:48 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/23/2016 8:05:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 7:55:48 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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6/23/2016 8:09:10 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 8:05:37 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:55:48 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/23/2016 8:14:20 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 8:09:10 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 8:05:37 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:55:48 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

Usual teenage response, if you can't answer a question just spout psycobabble instead.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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6/27/2016 3:09:28 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 8:05:37 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:55:48 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/27/2016 3:10:44 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 3:09:28 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 8:05:37 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:55:48 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.

So you don't understand it, then?
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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6/27/2016 3:11:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 3:09:28 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 8:05:37 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:55:48 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.
Demand a refund because whatever you bought it was not an IQ above 68.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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6/27/2016 3:13:11 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 3:10:44 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/27/2016 3:09:28 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 8:05:37 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:55:48 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.

So you don't understand it, then?

That "gibberish" means something to me. Is it "gibberish" to you?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/27/2016 3:49:40 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 3:13:11 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/27/2016 3:10:44 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/27/2016 3:09:28 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 8:05:37 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:55:48 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.

So you don't understand it, then?

That "gibberish" means something to me. Is it "gibberish" to you?

As a reply to the question I asked the kid it means nothing at all.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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6/27/2016 5:13:42 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.

So you don't understand it, then?

That "gibberish" means something to me. Is it "gibberish" to you?

As a reply to the question I asked the kid it means nothing at all.

I know this. My contention is that it has more to do with IQ than what he wrote.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/27/2016 5:31:48 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 5:13:42 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.

So you don't understand it, then?

That "gibberish" means something to me. Is it "gibberish" to you?

As a reply to the question I asked the kid it means nothing at all.

I know this. My contention is that it has more to do with IQ than what he wrote.

In that case, I would be grateful if someone of your legendary intellectual capacity could explain the relevance of the kid's answer to the question I asked him.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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6/27/2016 5:40:00 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 5:31:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:13:42 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.

So you don't understand it, then?

That "gibberish" means something to me. Is it "gibberish" to you?

As a reply to the question I asked the kid it means nothing at all.

I know this. My contention is that it has more to do with IQ than what he wrote.

In that case, I would be grateful if someone of your legendary intellectual capacity could explain the relevance of the kid's answer to the question I asked him.

Ask him. I know who you are. If he really is a kid, he will be green enough to think you're really interested in an answer.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/27/2016 5:57:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 5:40:00 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:31:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:13:42 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.

So you don't understand it, then?

That "gibberish" means something to me. Is it "gibberish" to you?

As a reply to the question I asked the kid it means nothing at all.

I know this. My contention is that it has more to do with IQ than what he wrote.

In that case, I would be grateful if someone of your legendary intellectual capacity could explain the relevance of the kid's answer to the question I asked him.

Ask him. I know who you are. If he really is a kid, he will be green enough to think you're really interested in an answer.

His profile says he is 14, and I am sure someone who calls himself Spirit and Truth would never lie about his age.
Are you unable or unwilling to give me your interpretation of his nonsense of a reply to my question?
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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6/27/2016 6:02:52 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 5:57:47 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:40:00 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:31:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:13:42 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.

So you don't understand it, then?

That "gibberish" means something to me. Is it "gibberish" to you?

As a reply to the question I asked the kid it means nothing at all.

I know this. My contention is that it has more to do with IQ than what he wrote.

In that case, I would be grateful if someone of your legendary intellectual capacity could explain the relevance of the kid's answer to the question I asked him.

Ask him. I know who you are. If he really is a kid, he will be green enough to think you're really interested in an answer.

His profile says he is 14, and I am sure someone who calls himself Spirit and Truth would never lie about his age.
Are you unable or unwilling to give me your interpretation of his nonsense of a reply to my question?

As he didn't post nonsense, I cannot give you my interpretation of what he didn't give. And if you had better reading comprehension, you would know I find you unworthy of the answer.

Its night here, and I'm not in the mood for trolls. Try me in the morning. I generally like trolls.
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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6/27/2016 6:03:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
We are at a moment in human history when reality and truth have become so subjective and so relative to individual bias that it's nearly impossible to even have this conversation.

It is clear from the facts of history that humanity has improved in many ways, morally speaking, and yet has not improved at all in just many ways. And my own take on this is that inside, we are the same selfish beings that we always were, while having the same capacity for empathy and kindness as we always have had. What's changed is our technological prowess, and so too our ability and willingness to catch criminals among us and to express our moral outrage at their behaviors. So that is seems as if we have improved, morally, by a significant factor, when in reality, I suspect, that in our hearts and inclinations we have improved very little.

But a point I would like to add is that I don't think assessing our moral status against the past is all that useful. As we will tend to see whatever we want to see in that regard. What may perhaps be more useful would be to focus on how we could improve our moral understanding and awareness, overall, and maintain it from generation to generation. Because it's through the short life-span of we humans, and the loss of whatever moral wisdom that we manage to acquired, as each succeeding generation passes away, that we lose the most ground in terms of our moral wisdom and self-awareness.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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6/27/2016 6:13:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/27/2016 6:02:52 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:57:47 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:40:00 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:31:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/27/2016 5:13:42 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:52:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 6/23/2016 7:23:15 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:07 PM, difference wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:10:19 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I think American values are profoundly Christian.

Especially when it comes to forgiving people who really deserve to be chucked into meat grinders and fed to pigs.

God bless America. Lets hope this generation turns to God before it's too late.

Don't most of this generation consider themselves Christian anyway?

The label "christian" doesn't mean anything. It's a cultural label that has very little to do with whether or not someone has faith.

Is that how MW dictionary defines "christian" kiddo?

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is that gibberish meant to mean anything, youngster?

To people with IQs above 68, yes.

So you don't understand it, then?

That "gibberish" means something to me. Is it "gibberish" to you?

As a reply to the question I asked the kid it means nothing at all.

I know this. My contention is that it has more to do with IQ than what he wrote.

In that case, I would be grateful if someone of your legendary intellectual capacity could explain the relevance of the kid's answer to the question I asked him.

Ask him. I know who you are. If he really is a kid, he will be green enough to think you're really interested in an answer.

His profile says he is 14, and I am sure someone who calls himself Spirit and Truth would never lie about his age.
Are you unable or unwilling to give me your interpretation of his nonsense of a reply to my question?

As he didn't post nonsense, I cannot give you my interpretation of what he didn't give. And if you had better reading comprehension, you would know I find you unworthy of the answer.

Its night here, and I'm not in the mood for trolls. Try me in the morning. I generally like trolls.

You think that gibberish answers a perfectly reasonable question?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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6/28/2016 12:12:43 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 11:08:48 PM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard many Christians decrying the advent of modern immorality. What specifically are they referring to when claiming there is a decline in morals?

One of the best historical indicators as to how we have treated each other is murder rates. Rape was not as commonly reported nor was it taken as seriously. Child abuse was not talked about in the same way as it is today. Those two facts would indicate society cares more now about how we treat other fellow humans (and animals, for that matter) which is a moral consideration in itself. Blacks were treated atrociously and women and children were treated like chattel.

Today, the US has a murder rate of 4.5 per 100,000 people. The vast majority of the years from 1910 and on had a significantly higher murder rate than the present murder rate.

http://www.infoplease.com...
http://polyticks.com...

An interesting side note is that the murder rate is on average 30-40% higher in the religious bible belt than the secular east and west coast. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

Murder rates in medieval England were 10 times that of the 20th century England. http://www.nytimes.com...

Other than theists' obsessive hand-wringing about how others might break their religious rules regarding misuse of their genitals, how can they possibly think that modern morality is worse than it used to be over the last couple hundred years?

Is imagined genital misuse a more significant problem to theists than murder and other crimes such as rape and child abuse that usually comes with high murder rates?

They are not talking about the days of the Wild West but of comparable times like 1970,1980,1990, etc. When Christianity was simply the way, LGBT's being in the bathroom with your daughter legally was no issue, the country was united, tv was safe for kids to watch and common respect for yoir seniors was common place. Now kids think someone else should pay for your college, depression and "mental disorders" are through the roof, and love for country is going down the tubes to simply be replaced by a lesser culture. The old generation was Jacob. This generation is Esau.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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6/28/2016 1:52:20 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/28/2016 12:12:43 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/22/2016 11:08:48 PM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard many Christians decrying the advent of modern immorality. What specifically are they referring to when claiming there is a decline in morals?

One of the best historical indicators as to how we have treated each other is murder rates. Rape was not as commonly reported nor was it taken as seriously. Child abuse was not talked about in the same way as it is today. Those two facts would indicate society cares more now about how we treat other fellow humans (and animals, for that matter) which is a moral consideration in itself. Blacks were treated atrociously and women and children were treated like chattel.

Today, the US has a murder rate of 4.5 per 100,000 people. The vast majority of the years from 1910 and on had a significantly higher murder rate than the present murder rate.

http://www.infoplease.com...
http://polyticks.com...

An interesting side note is that the murder rate is on average 30-40% higher in the religious bible belt than the secular east and west coast. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

Murder rates in medieval England were 10 times that of the 20th century England. http://www.nytimes.com...

Other than theists' obsessive hand-wringing about how others might break their religious rules regarding misuse of their genitals, how can they possibly think that modern morality is worse than it used to be over the last couple hundred years?

Is imagined genital misuse a more significant problem to theists than murder and other crimes such as rape and child abuse that usually comes with high murder rates?

They are not talking about the days of the Wild West but of comparable times like 1970,1980,1990, etc. When Christianity was simply the way, LGBT's being in the bathroom with your daughter legally was no issue, the country was united, tv was safe for kids to watch and common respect for yoir seniors was common place. Now kids think someone else should pay for your college, depression and "mental disorders" are through the roof, and love for country is going down the tubes to simply be replaced by a lesser culture. The old generation was Jacob. This generation is Esau.

It says something when one of the best examples of modern immorality is a transgender person walking in a woman's bathroom and entitled youth. I also see areas whereas that could be problematic but for utilitarian reasons; not moral reasons. It in no way is equivalent to legal marital rape, increased murder rates, treating people of other races like literal animals, societal tolerance of spousal and child abuse, etc, etc.

Is that a Christian belief that an entitlement mentality of todays youth is worse than a man legally raping his wife?

The majority of the US is Christian. Those entitled, disrespectful youth you are talking about are largely Christian. If anything, that is just an example of how unhelpful Christian morality is.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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6/28/2016 2:00:23 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/28/2016 1:52:20 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 6/28/2016 12:12:43 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/22/2016 11:08:48 PM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard many Christians decrying the advent of modern immorality. What specifically are they referring to when claiming there is a decline in morals?

One of the best historical indicators as to how we have treated each other is murder rates. Rape was not as commonly reported nor was it taken as seriously. Child abuse was not talked about in the same way as it is today. Those two facts would indicate society cares more now about how we treat other fellow humans (and animals, for that matter) which is a moral consideration in itself. Blacks were treated atrociously and women and children were treated like chattel.

Today, the US has a murder rate of 4.5 per 100,000 people. The vast majority of the years from 1910 and on had a significantly higher murder rate than the present murder rate.

http://www.infoplease.com...
http://polyticks.com...

An interesting side note is that the murder rate is on average 30-40% higher in the religious bible belt than the secular east and west coast. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

Murder rates in medieval England were 10 times that of the 20th century England. http://www.nytimes.com...

Other than theists' obsessive hand-wringing about how others might break their religious rules regarding misuse of their genitals, how can they possibly think that modern morality is worse than it used to be over the last couple hundred years?

Is imagined genital misuse a more significant problem to theists than murder and other crimes such as rape and child abuse that usually comes with high murder rates?

They are not talking about the days of the Wild West but of comparable times like 1970,1980,1990, etc. When Christianity was simply the way, LGBT's being in the bathroom with your daughter legally was no issue, the country was united, tv was safe for kids to watch and common respect for yoir seniors was common place. Now kids think someone else should pay for your college, depression and "mental disorders" are through the roof, and love for country is going down the tubes to simply be replaced by a lesser culture. The old generation was Jacob. This generation is Esau.

It says something when one of the best examples of modern immorality is a transgender person walking in a woman's bathroom and entitled youth. I also see areas whereas that could be problematic but for utilitarian reasons; not moral reasons. It in no way is equivalent to legal marital rape, increased murder rates, treating people of other races like literal animals, societal tolerance of spousal and child abuse, etc, etc.

Is that a Christian belief that an entitlement mentality of todays youth is worse than a man legally raping his wife?

The majority of the US is Christian. Those entitled, disrespectful youth you are talking about are largely Christian. If anything, that is just an example of how unhelpful Christian morality is.

You know fully well that the Bible does not "condone rape". The verse that atheist sites use to make the claim leave out all context even going so far as to leave out the death punishment for rapists not but 2 verses before.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...