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Infinite regress

Skyangel
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6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.
brontoraptor
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6/29/2016 3:47:11 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

I figured I'd wait to watch the Atheists chime in. Looks like they scattered like roaches.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,083
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6/29/2016 4:51:04 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

Infinite regress does not describe what we observe about our universe. It started with a "bang" and it does not appear to be slowing down - in fact it seems to be speeding up...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skyangel
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6/29/2016 11:00:38 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 3:47:11 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

I figured I'd wait to watch the Atheists chime in. Looks like they scattered like roaches.

How about sharing what you think about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Do you have any original thoughts or do your thoughts and beliefs depend on what others think?

Do you believe the universe and its cycles has always existed or not? If so why and if not why not? Please explain your reasons and logic behind your belief regardless of whether you answer is yes or no.
What others believe is irrelevant to what you personally believe.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/29/2016 11:16:56 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 4:51:04 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

Infinite regress does not describe what we observe about our universe. It started with a "bang" and it does not appear to be slowing down - in fact it seems to be speeding up...

What makes you believe it started with a "Bang"?
What makes you believe it started at all?
Were you there to see it start?
As for APPEARANCES.... They can be deceiving as you know. Light and Nature has a way of creating ILLUSIONS which fool people on this planet.
Do you know that the "appearance" of universe "speeding up" or "expanding" is not an illusion?
If you do, how do you know that for sure?
I suspect it is an illusion and will hold to that belief till someone convinces me it is NOT an illusion.

So I challenge you to try to convince me that the expanding universe is NOT an illusion.
and
If you wish to convince me the universe (defined as ALL that exists) had a beginning, please tell me what existed to create that beginning of ALL that exists (universe) or tell me if you think all existing things came from nothing.
janesix
Posts: 3,437
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6/29/2016 11:17:25 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

It is a possibility.

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

Evidence shows there might have been a big bang. But the same evidence also shows there could be a toroidal universe, which recycles and could be eternal. I havent yet decided what i believe. I dont think we have enough information either way.
Skyangel
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6/29/2016 11:24:24 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 4:51:04 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

Infinite regress does not describe what we observe about our universe. It started with a "bang" and it does not appear to be slowing down - in fact it seems to be speeding up...

Infinite regress is not about observations of current existing things at all. It is about LOGIC and MATH.
Do the MATH.
Existing things need previously existing things to make, create or reproduce them....Therefore previously existing things must have existed before currently existing things. The same applies to those previously existing things and to their forerunners etc etc etc .
We cannot escape from the principle of ALL existing things creating all existing things unless we wish to believe that all existing things came from no existing things. Is that what you believe?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/29/2016 11:37:23 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 11:17:25 PM, janesix wrote:
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

It is a possibility.

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

Evidence shows there might have been a big bang. But the same evidence also shows there could be a toroidal universe, which recycles and could be eternal. I havent yet decided what i believe. I dont think we have enough information either way.

It seems that people can find evidence to support whatever they want to believe and they simply reject anything they do not want to believe.
Infinite regress is supported by the logic that you need previously existing things to create currently or future existing things. It is impossible to create something from nothing.

If something existed in the past, then whatever it was, was ALL that existed in the past.
Since the universe is defined as ALL that exists, it is only logical to believe that ALL that exists today ( Universe) was created by ALL that existed ( Universe) in the past which was created by ALL that existed before that, which was created by all that existed before that ....etc.etc.etc. It is impossible to get a place where ALL that existed ( Universe) began since it could not begin unless ALL that existed before it (Universe) also existed.

In conclusion I have no choice but to believe the universe has always existed due to ALL existence of the past creating all existence of the future through its many recycling cycles.
It's the only logical conclusion in my mind. Nothing else makes any sense.
janesix
Posts: 3,437
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6/29/2016 11:41:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 11:37:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:17:25 PM, janesix wrote:
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

It is a possibility.

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

Evidence shows there might have been a big bang. But the same evidence also shows there could be a toroidal universe, which recycles and could be eternal. I havent yet decided what i believe. I dont think we have enough information either way.

It seems that people can find evidence to support whatever they want to believe and they simply reject anything they do not want to believe.
Infinite regress is supported by the logic that you need previously existing things to create currently or future existing things. It is impossible to create something from nothing.

If something existed in the past, then whatever it was, was ALL that existed in the past.
Since the universe is defined as ALL that exists, it is only logical to believe that ALL that exists today ( Universe) was created by ALL that existed ( Universe) in the past which was created by ALL that existed before that, which was created by all that existed before that ....etc.etc.etc. It is impossible to get a place where ALL that existed ( Universe) began since it could not begin unless ALL that existed before it (Universe) also existed.

In conclusion I have no choice but to believe the universe has always existed due to ALL existence of the past creating all existence of the future through its many recycling cycles.
It's the only logical conclusion in my mind. Nothing else makes any sense.

There is also the possibility that nothing except consciousness exists at all. Can you really prove anything except your own conciousness exist skyangel?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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6/30/2016 12:22:51 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 11:00:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/29/2016 3:47:11 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

I figured I'd wait to watch the Atheists chime in. Looks like they scattered like roaches.

How about sharing what you think about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Do you have any original thoughts or do your thoughts and beliefs depend on what others think?

Do you believe the universe and its cycles has always existed or not? If so why and if not why not? Please explain your reasons and logic behind your belief regardless of whether you answer is yes or no.
What others believe is irrelevant to what you personally believe.

Nope. Any finite thing needs a cause and infinitely. It's like saying everything has a mother, but there is no first mother. It's a paradox. It's where true atheism loses legs.

The next atheist will use a mix of paradoxial logic such as?

There was nothing before the big bang, not time, not space, not anything. Which would mean nothing could have ever happened in the first place.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/30/2016 1:26:38 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 11:41:47 PM, janesix wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:37:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:17:25 PM, janesix wrote:
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

It is a possibility.

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

Evidence shows there might have been a big bang. But the same evidence also shows there could be a toroidal universe, which recycles and could be eternal. I havent yet decided what i believe. I dont think we have enough information either way.

It seems that people can find evidence to support whatever they want to believe and they simply reject anything they do not want to believe.
Infinite regress is supported by the logic that you need previously existing things to create currently or future existing things. It is impossible to create something from nothing.

If something existed in the past, then whatever it was, was ALL that existed in the past.
Since the universe is defined as ALL that exists, it is only logical to believe that ALL that exists today ( Universe) was created by ALL that existed ( Universe) in the past which was created by ALL that existed before that, which was created by all that existed before that ....etc.etc.etc. It is impossible to get a place where ALL that existed ( Universe) began since it could not begin unless ALL that existed before it (Universe) also existed.

In conclusion I have no choice but to believe the universe has always existed due to ALL existence of the past creating all existence of the future through its many recycling cycles.
It's the only logical conclusion in my mind. Nothing else makes any sense.

There is also the possibility that nothing except consciousness exists at all. Can you really prove anything except your own conciousness exist skyangel?

Sure, If your consciousness exists then you have proved to yourself that another consciousness besides my own exists.
Other peoples consciousness is separate from my own consciousness and the unconscious people are totally separated from their own consciousness altogether.
If you think nothing but my own consciousness exists are you suggesting or claiming your consciousness doesn't exist?

When I die, I presume my own consciousness will cease to exist and I can only presume that other peoples consciousness will still exist and they will still be people on Earth after I die. I make those presumptions due to being conscious of both living people as well as dead people and believing the dead are not conscious of themselves at all. Therefore other living or non living things do not depend on my own consciousness. They will exist regardless of whether I am conscious of their existence and my own or not. Living things existed before I became conscious of them and they will exist after I become unconscious.
Consciousness is the condition of being awake and understanding what is happening around you.
The condition of being asleep and lacking understanding and comprehension also exists.
People who are conscious of that fact, do not claim "nothing except consciousness exists at all."

In what way is a rock conscious?
In what way is a dead person conscious?
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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6/30/2016 1:50:06 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 12:22:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:00:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/29/2016 3:47:11 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:

There was nothing before the big bang, not time, not space, not anything. Which would mean nothing could have ever happened in the first place.

You could not equivocate the word 'nothing' anymore then you have in your remarks.

Care to elaborate what 'nothing' is?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 12:22:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:00:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:

How about sharing what you think about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Do you have any original thoughts or do your thoughts and beliefs depend on what others think?

Do you believe the universe and its cycles has always existed or not? If so why and if not why not? Please explain your reasons and logic behind your belief regardless of whether you answer is yes or no.
What others believe is irrelevant to what you personally believe.

Nope. Any finite thing needs a cause and infinitely. It's like saying everything has a mother, but there is no first mother. It's a paradox. It's where true atheism loses legs.

What makes you think the paradox causes anyone to "not have a leg to stand on"? The paradox is what it is.
The paradox itself IS the foundation on which believers are forced to stand if they believe in ETERNAL LIFE.
Why do you think you have a leg to stand on and atheists who believe in infinite regress don't?
Life is definitely a paradox since you cannot have life unless life creates it through its own reproduction cycles. Life is finite in the sense of individual things being born and passing away but life is infinite in the general sense of the CYCLE of LIFE being subject to infinite regress.
Life was not created by anything other than life itself.

Do you understand that eternal things are part of infinity and vice versa?
Do you believe in eternal or infinite life as well as finite life or do you only believe in finite life?

The next atheist will use a mix of paradoxial logic such as?

There was nothing before the big bang, not time, not space, not anything. Which would mean nothing could have ever happened in the first place.

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.

Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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6/30/2016 2:14:56 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:22:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:00:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:

How about sharing what you think about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Do you have any original thoughts or do your thoughts and beliefs depend on what others think?

Do you believe the universe and its cycles has always existed or not? If so why and if not why not? Please explain your reasons and logic behind your belief regardless of whether you answer is yes or no.
What others believe is irrelevant to what you personally believe.

Nope. Any finite thing needs a cause and infinitely. It's like saying everything has a mother, but there is no first mother. It's a paradox. It's where true atheism loses legs.

What makes you think the paradox causes anyone to "not have a leg to stand on"? The paradox is what it is.
The paradox itself IS the foundation on which believers are forced to stand if they believe in ETERNAL LIFE.
Why do you think you have a leg to stand on and atheists who believe in infinite regress don't?
Life is definitely a paradox since you cannot have life unless life creates it through its own reproduction cycles. Life is finite in the sense of individual things being born and passing away but life is infinite in the general sense of the CYCLE of LIFE being subject to infinite regress.
Life was not created by anything other than life itself.

Do you understand that eternal things are part of infinity and vice versa?
Do you believe in eternal or infinite life as well as finite life or do you only believe in finite life?

The next atheist will use a mix of paradoxial logic such as?

There was nothing before the big bang, not time, not space, not anything. Which would mean nothing could have ever happened in the first place.

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.


Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "

It was the argument of one of the more prominant atheist debaters on this site against me. I'll post the link.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
janesix
Posts: 3,437
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6/30/2016 2:22:41 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 1:26:38 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:41:47 PM, janesix wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:37:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:17:25 PM, janesix wrote:
At 6/29/2016 12:32:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
What do you think of the concept of Infinite Regress?

Do you believe it is possible that the CYCLES which reproduce and destroy material objects in Nature on Earth and in the Universe, have always existed?

It is a possibility.

Please explain why you do or do not believe it is possible.

Evidence shows there might have been a big bang. But the same evidence also shows there could be a toroidal universe, which recycles and could be eternal. I havent yet decided what i believe. I dont think we have enough information either way.

It seems that people can find evidence to support whatever they want to believe and they simply reject anything they do not want to believe.
Infinite regress is supported by the logic that you need previously existing things to create currently or future existing things. It is impossible to create something from nothing.

If something existed in the past, then whatever it was, was ALL that existed in the past.
Since the universe is defined as ALL that exists, it is only logical to believe that ALL that exists today ( Universe) was created by ALL that existed ( Universe) in the past which was created by ALL that existed before that, which was created by all that existed before that ....etc.etc.etc. It is impossible to get a place where ALL that existed ( Universe) began since it could not begin unless ALL that existed before it (Universe) also existed.

In conclusion I have no choice but to believe the universe has always existed due to ALL existence of the past creating all existence of the future through its many recycling cycles.
It's the only logical conclusion in my mind. Nothing else makes any sense.

There is also the possibility that nothing except consciousness exists at all. Can you really prove anything except your own conciousness exist skyangel?


Sure, If your consciousness exists then you have proved to yourself that another consciousness besides my own exists.
Other peoples consciousness is separate from my own consciousness and the unconscious people are totally separated from their own consciousness altogether.
If you think nothing but my own consciousness exists are you suggesting or claiming your consciousness doesn't exist?

When I die, I presume my own consciousness will cease to exist and I can only presume that other peoples consciousness will still exist and they will still be people on Earth after I die. I make those presumptions due to being conscious of both living people as well as dead people and believing the dead are not conscious of themselves at all. Therefore other living or non living things do not depend on my own consciousness. They will exist regardless of whether I am conscious of their existence and my own or not. Living things existed before I became conscious of them and they will exist after I become unconscious.
Consciousness is the condition of being awake and understanding what is happening around you.
The condition of being asleep and lacking understanding and comprehension also exists.
People who are conscious of that fact, do not claim "nothing except consciousness exists at all."

In what way is a rock conscious?
In what way is a dead person conscious?

Sorry sky, you can only prove to yourself that only YOUR conciousness exists.

Go ahead and prove that i am anything but your imagination. Your body is your imagination. The entire universe is your imagination Skyangel.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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6/30/2016 2:23:30 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:22:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:00:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:

How about sharing what you think about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Do you have any original thoughts or do your thoughts and beliefs depend on what others think?

Do you believe the universe and its cycles has always existed or not? If so why and if not why not? Please explain your reasons and logic behind your belief regardless of whether you answer is yes or no.
What others believe is irrelevant to what you personally believe.

Nope. Any finite thing needs a cause and infinitely. It's like saying everything has a mother, but there is no first mother. It's a paradox. It's where true atheism loses legs.

What makes you think the paradox causes anyone to "not have a leg to stand on"? The paradox is what it is.
The paradox itself IS the foundation on which believers are forced to stand if they believe in ETERNAL LIFE.
Why do you think you have a leg to stand on and atheists who believe in infinite regress don't?
Life is definitely a paradox since you cannot have life unless life creates it through its own reproduction cycles. Life is finite in the sense of individual things being born and passing away but life is infinite in the general sense of the CYCLE of LIFE being subject to infinite regress.
Life was not created by anything other than life itself.

Do you understand that eternal things are part of infinity and vice versa?
Do you believe in eternal or infinite life as well as finite life or do you only believe in finite life?

The next atheist will use a mix of paradoxial logic such as?

There was nothing before the big bang, not time, not space, not anything. Which would mean nothing could have ever happened in the first place.

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.


Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "

There is the theory that there is no tense other than is. It states that all consciousness exists. It didn't exist, nor will it exist. It just does exist. With the space time continuim model time is meaningless. Within its construct the theory theorizes that we all existin the present tense, and that time and tense are created concepts that are brain interprets as reality, but are not actually reality.

Example? The construct of the Sims is not of meaning to define our reality. Any way they might try to define our reality would simply bewhite noise and meaningless propositions.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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6/30/2016 2:26:00 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
*our
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/30/2016 2:53:26 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 2:14:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:22:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:00:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:

How about sharing what you think about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Do you have any original thoughts or do your thoughts and beliefs depend on what others think?

Do you believe the universe and its cycles has always existed or not? If so why and if not why not? Please explain your reasons and logic behind your belief regardless of whether you answer is yes or no.
What others believe is irrelevant to what you personally believe.

Nope. Any finite thing needs a cause and infinitely. It's like saying everything has a mother, but there is no first mother. It's a paradox. It's where true atheism loses legs.

What makes you think the paradox causes anyone to "not have a leg to stand on"? The paradox is what it is.
The paradox itself IS the foundation on which believers are forced to stand if they believe in ETERNAL LIFE.
Why do you think you have a leg to stand on and atheists who believe in infinite regress don't?
Life is definitely a paradox since you cannot have life unless life creates it through its own reproduction cycles. Life is finite in the sense of individual things being born and passing away but life is infinite in the general sense of the CYCLE of LIFE being subject to infinite regress.
Life was not created by anything other than life itself.

Do you understand that eternal things are part of infinity and vice versa?
Do you believe in eternal or infinite life as well as finite life or do you only believe in finite life?

The next atheist will use a mix of paradoxial logic such as?

There was nothing before the big bang, not time, not space, not anything. Which would mean nothing could have ever happened in the first place.

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.


Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "

It was the argument of one of the more prominant atheist debaters on this site against me. I'll post the link.

One persons argument or opinion does not mean all who claim the same label hold exactly the same opinions or perceptions.
All atheists do not agree about everything any more than all believers agree about everything so please don't 'tar all atheists with the same brush'.
Understand that all people are unique with their own unique perspectives.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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6/30/2016 3:07:05 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 2:53:26 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:14:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:22:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:00:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:

How about sharing what you think about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Do you have any original thoughts or do your thoughts and beliefs depend on what others think?

Do you believe the universe and its cycles has always existed or not? If so why and if not why not? Please explain your reasons and logic behind your belief regardless of whether you answer is yes or no.
What others believe is irrelevant to what you personally believe.

Nope. Any finite thing needs a cause and infinitely. It's like saying everything has a mother, but there is no first mother. It's a paradox. It's where true atheism loses legs.

What makes you think the paradox causes anyone to "not have a leg to stand on"? The paradox is what it is.
The paradox itself IS the foundation on which believers are forced to stand if they believe in ETERNAL LIFE.
Why do you think you have a leg to stand on and atheists who believe in infinite regress don't?
Life is definitely a paradox since you cannot have life unless life creates it through its own reproduction cycles. Life is finite in the sense of individual things being born and passing away but life is infinite in the general sense of the CYCLE of LIFE being subject to infinite regress.
Life was not created by anything other than life itself.

Do you understand that eternal things are part of infinity and vice versa?
Do you believe in eternal or infinite life as well as finite life or do you only believe in finite life?

The next atheist will use a mix of paradoxial logic such as?

There was nothing before the big bang, not time, not space, not anything. Which would mean nothing could have ever happened in the first place.

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.


Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "

It was the argument of one of the more prominant atheist debaters on this site against me. I'll post the link.

One persons argument or opinion does not mean all who claim the same label hold exactly the same opinions or perceptions.
All atheists do not agree about everything any more than all believers agree about everything so please don't 'tar all atheists with the same brush'.
Understand that all people are unique with their own unique perspectives.

That's fine. The militant atheists on this site attack beliefs then offer no answer of their own, or they offer an illogical or paradoxed answer, thus making militant atheism arrogant claiming the high ground of knowledge, yet offering no better or equal answer.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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6/30/2016 3:12:28 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 3:07:05 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:53:26 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:14:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:22:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:00:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:

How about sharing what you think about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Do you have any original thoughts or do your thoughts and beliefs depend on what others think?

Do you believe the universe and its cycles has always existed or not? If so why and if not why not? Please explain your reasons and logic behind your belief regardless of whether you answer is yes or no.
What others believe is irrelevant to what you personally believe.

Nope. Any finite thing needs a cause and infinitely. It's like saying everything has a mother, but there is no first mother. It's a paradox. It's where true atheism loses legs.

What makes you think the paradox causes anyone to "not have a leg to stand on"? The paradox is what it is.
The paradox itself IS the foundation on which believers are forced to stand if they believe in ETERNAL LIFE.
Why do you think you have a leg to stand on and atheists who believe in infinite regress don't?
Life is definitely a paradox since you cannot have life unless life creates it through its own reproduction cycles. Life is finite in the sense of individual things being born and passing away but life is infinite in the general sense of the CYCLE of LIFE being subject to infinite regress.
Life was not created by anything other than life itself.

Do you understand that eternal things are part of infinity and vice versa?
Do you believe in eternal or infinite life as well as finite life or do you only believe in finite life?

The next atheist will use a mix of paradoxial logic such as?

There was nothing before the big bang, not time, not space, not anything. Which would mean nothing could have ever happened in the first place.

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.


Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "

It was the argument of one of the more prominant atheist debaters on this site against me. I'll post the link.

One persons argument or opinion does not mean all who claim the same label hold exactly the same opinions or perceptions.
All atheists do not agree about everything any more than all believers agree about everything so please don't 'tar all atheists with the same brush'.
Understand that all people are unique with their own unique perspectives.

That's fine. The militant atheists on this site attack beliefs then offer no answer of their own, or they offer an illogical or paradoxed answer, thus making militant atheism arrogant claiming the high ground of knowledge, yet offering no better or equal answer.
To what question?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Skyangel
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6/30/2016 3:15:43 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 2:22:41 AM, janesix wrote:
At 6/30/2016 1:26:38 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:41:47 PM, janesix wrote:

There is also the possibility that nothing except consciousness exists at all. Can you really prove anything except your own conciousness exist skyangel?


Sure, If your consciousness exists then you have proved to yourself that another consciousness besides my own exists.
Other peoples consciousness is separate from my own consciousness and the unconscious people are totally separated from their own consciousness altogether.
If you think nothing but my own consciousness exists are you suggesting or claiming your consciousness doesn't exist?

When I die, I presume my own consciousness will cease to exist and I can only presume that other peoples consciousness will still exist and they will still be people on Earth after I die. I make those presumptions due to being conscious of both living people as well as dead people and believing the dead are not conscious of themselves at all. Therefore other living or non living things do not depend on my own consciousness. They will exist regardless of whether I am conscious of their existence and my own or not. Living things existed before I became conscious of them and they will exist after I become unconscious.
Consciousness is the condition of being awake and understanding what is happening around you.
The condition of being asleep and lacking understanding and comprehension also exists.
People who are conscious of that fact, do not claim "nothing except consciousness exists at all."

In what way is a rock conscious?
In what way is a dead person conscious?

Sorry sky, you can only prove to yourself that only YOUR conciousness exists.

Go ahead and prove that i am anything but your imagination. Your body is your imagination. The entire universe is your imagination Skyangel.

I exist in reality. You obviously don't believe you do. You imagine all things including that you even have an imagination. You are totally lost in your own imaginary imagination.
Your own imagination is imaginary and doesn't exist in reality.
Now, go back to your foolish day dreams and imagine whatever you want.

Don't let any of the above words upset you either since you are only imagining them.
Remember they don't exist in reality. They only exist because you put them there with your imagination which also doesn't exist in reality.
janesix
Posts: 3,437
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6/30/2016 3:22:22 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 3:15:43 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:22:41 AM, janesix wrote:
At 6/30/2016 1:26:38 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:41:47 PM, janesix wrote:

There is also the possibility that nothing except consciousness exists at all. Can you really prove anything except your own conciousness exist skyangel?


Sure, If your consciousness exists then you have proved to yourself that another consciousness besides my own exists.
Other peoples consciousness is separate from my own consciousness and the unconscious people are totally separated from their own consciousness altogether.
If you think nothing but my own consciousness exists are you suggesting or claiming your consciousness doesn't exist?

When I die, I presume my own consciousness will cease to exist and I can only presume that other peoples consciousness will still exist and they will still be people on Earth after I die. I make those presumptions due to being conscious of both living people as well as dead people and believing the dead are not conscious of themselves at all. Therefore other living or non living things do not depend on my own consciousness. They will exist regardless of whether I am conscious of their existence and my own or not. Living things existed before I became conscious of them and they will exist after I become unconscious.
Consciousness is the condition of being awake and understanding what is happening around you.
The condition of being asleep and lacking understanding and comprehension also exists.
People who are conscious of that fact, do not claim "nothing except consciousness exists at all."

In what way is a rock conscious?
In what way is a dead person conscious?

Sorry sky, you can only prove to yourself that only YOUR conciousness exists.

Go ahead and prove that i am anything but your imagination. Your body is your imagination. The entire universe is your imagination Skyangel.

I exist in reality. You obviously don't believe you do. You imagine all things including that you even have an imagination. You are totally lost in your own imaginary imagination.
Your own imagination is imaginary and doesn't exist in reality.
Now, go back to your foolish day dreams and imagine whatever you want.

Don't let any of the above words upset you either since you are only imagining them.
Remember they don't exist in reality. They only exist because you put them there with your imagination which also doesn't exist in reality.

I can assure you my imagination isnt so boring as to imagine such a redundant being as you.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/30/2016 3:37:00 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 2:23:30 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:22:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

Nope. Any finite thing needs a cause and infinitely. It's like saying everything has a mother, but there is no first mother. It's a paradox. It's where true atheism loses legs.

What makes you think the paradox causes anyone to "not have a leg to stand on"? The paradox is what it is.
The paradox itself IS the foundation on which believers are forced to stand if they believe in ETERNAL LIFE.
Why do you think you have a leg to stand on and atheists who believe in infinite regress don't?
Life is definitely a paradox since you cannot have life unless life creates it through its own reproduction cycles. Life is finite in the sense of individual things being born and passing away but life is infinite in the general sense of the CYCLE of LIFE being subject to infinite regress.
Life was not created by anything other than life itself.

Do you understand that eternal things are part of infinity and vice versa?
Do you believe in eternal or infinite life as well as finite life or do you only believe in finite life?

The next atheist will use a mix of paradoxial logic such as?

There was nothing before the big bang, not time, not space, not anything. Which would mean nothing could have ever happened in the first place.

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.


Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "

There is the theory that there is no tense other than is. It states that all consciousness exists. It didn't exist, nor will it exist. It just does exist. With the space time continuim model time is meaningless. Within its construct the theory theorizes that we all existin the present tense, and that time and tense are created concepts that are brain interprets as reality, but are not actually reality.

Time is apparently an illusion created by movement and human perception. In this movement which APPEARS to be constantly happening, humans perceive changes and communicate those changes in the terms of past present and future.
Time has meaning because people assign meaning to the word due to the human perception of change and movement.
I agree we all exist in the present tense. No beginning or end of the ever present "NOW" can possibly be found due to the beginning and end being instantaneous. As soon as the "NOW' begins it also ends and it happens faster than the speed of light due to being instantaneous. That is why we cannot find a beginning or end to it. The beginning and end of "NOW" is always "RIGHT NOW" in every instant. It comes and goes too fast to be measured.

Example? The construct of the Sims is not of meaning to define our reality. Any way they might try to define our reality would simply bewhite noise and meaningless propositions.

Comparing humans to Sims is illogical since simulations are created by humans. Humans can obviously create many things including other people, some of which are real and some are mythical or cartoon characters.
Many people seem to live in their own simulations and call their own fantasies reality due to believing the invisible characters in their minds are real and have some kind of authority over them instead of understanding they are supposed to be in control of their mind instead of allowing the invisible characters in their mind to control them.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/30/2016 4:28:17 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 3:07:05 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:53:26 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:14:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.


Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "

It was the argument of one of the more prominant atheist debaters on this site against me. I'll post the link.

One persons argument or opinion does not mean all who claim the same label hold exactly the same opinions or perceptions.
All atheists do not agree about everything any more than all believers agree about everything so please don't 'tar all atheists with the same brush'.
Understand that all people are unique with their own unique perspectives.

That's fine. The militant atheists on this site attack beliefs then offer no answer of their own, or they offer an illogical or paradoxed answer, thus making militant atheism arrogant claiming the high ground of knowledge, yet offering no better or equal answer.

The believers attack the atheists unbelief and offer them no logical reason to believe in any invisible person who has alleged supernatural powers and allegedly created the whole universe.

Believers speculate about a God creating the universe because a story said so and they choose to believe it.
Unbelievers speculate about a big bang creating the universe because someone calling himself a scientist came up with the theory and people choose to believe it because it was invented by a scientist and called science.
If you call a speculation a theory and make it look like science, it is accepted by the science nerds.
If you call a speculation faith and make it look like religion, it is accepted by the religious nerds.
Either way it is still a speculation about the beginning when no beginning can be found any more than you can find a beginning of NOW in reality because time is an illusion which exists and does not exist in the very same instant.

In effect people who perceive existence in general (as opposed to individually existing things) as having a beginning are blind to the infinite regress of existence itself. They seem to be stuck in the logic of a one track finite mind which seems to need to believe in an ultimate finite beginning and cannot comprehend infinity and eternity at all.
On the other hand, the part of the human mind which understands the concept of infinite regress will also understand that a beginning to something infinite is impossible to find and therefore there can be no first of anything when it comes to existence in general because it takes existence to create existence.
Existence therefore has an eternal aspect when it comes to its REPRODUCTION CYCLES as well as a finite aspect when it comes to individually existing things within those cycles.
Every existing thing comes from the existing thing before it and there can be no "first' existing thing.
Existence just IS.
Go back to your own statement in post #17 about there being no tense other than is.
Apply the principle to existence. It just exists in the present without past or future.
Time is an illusion and people are deceived by it. People measure things according to the illusion of time. They give things in the universe an 'age' which is relevant to nothing but Earths movement and humans perception of it.

Existence exists in the present tense, in the "NOW" which in itself is an instantaneous 'beginning and end' without a 'beginning and end'. In effect the "NOW" which exists also does not exist at the same time and everything that exists within the "NOW" is as existing and non existing as the "NOW" itself.
Some people manage to understand the 'mystery' irony or paradox and others simply cannot comprehend it.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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6/30/2016 4:35:11 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 4:28:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 3:07:05 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:53:26 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:14:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.


Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "

It was the argument of one of the more prominant atheist debaters on this site against me. I'll post the link.

One persons argument or opinion does not mean all who claim the same label hold exactly the same opinions or perceptions.
All atheists do not agree about everything any more than all believers agree about everything so please don't 'tar all atheists with the same brush'.
Understand that all people are unique with their own unique perspectives.

That's fine. The militant atheists on this site attack beliefs then offer no answer of their own, or they offer an illogical or paradoxed answer, thus making militant atheism arrogant claiming the high ground of knowledge, yet offering no better or equal answer.

The believers attack the atheists unbelief and offer them no logical reason to believe in any invisible person who has alleged supernatural powers and allegedly created the whole universe.

Believers speculate about a God creating the universe because a story said so and they choose to believe it.
Unbelievers speculate about a big bang creating the universe because someone calling himself a scientist came up with the theory and people choose to believe it because it was invented by a scientist and called science.
If you call a speculation a theory and make it look like science, it is accepted by the science nerds.
If you call a speculation faith and make it look like religion, it is accepted by the religious nerds.
Either way it is still a speculation about the beginning when no beginning can be found any more than you can find a beginning of NOW in reality because time is an illusion which exists and does not exist in the very same instant.

In effect people who perceive existence in general (as opposed to individually existing things) as having a beginning are blind to the infinite regress of existence itself. They seem to be stuck in the logic of a one track finite mind which seems to need to believe in an ultimate finite beginning and cannot comprehend infinity and eternity at all.
On the other hand, the part of the human mind which understands the concept of infinite regress will also understand that a beginning to something infinite is impossible to find and therefore there can be no first of anything when it comes to existence in general because it takes existence to create existence.
Existence therefore has an eternal aspect when it comes to its REPRODUCTION CYCLES as well as a finite aspect when it comes to individually existing things within those cycles.
Every existing thing comes from the existing thing before it and there can be no "first' existing thing.
Existence just IS.
Go back to your own statement in post #17 about there being no tense other than is.
Apply the principle to existence. It just exists in the present without past or future.
Time is an illusion and people are deceived by it. People measure things according to the illusion of time. They give things in the universe an 'age' which is relevant to nothing but Earths movement and humans perception of it.

Existence exists in the present tense, in the "NOW" which in itself is an instantaneous 'beginning and end' without a 'beginning and end'. In effect the "NOW" which exists also does not exist at the same time and everything that exists within the "NOW" is as existing and non existing as the "NOW" itself.
Some people manage to understand the 'mystery' irony or paradox and others simply cannot comprehend it.

We pose an answer. Atheism poses no answer. It's like coming across a serious issue and attacking the only guy who offers a solution then offering no solution. We've given a solution. Now give us yours.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/30/2016 4:39:33 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 3:22:22 AM, janesix wrote:
At 6/30/2016 3:15:43 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:22:41 AM, janesix wrote:
At 6/30/2016 1:26:38 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:41:47 PM, janesix wrote:

There is also the possibility that nothing except consciousness exists at all. Can you really prove anything except your own conciousness exist skyangel?


Sure, If your consciousness exists then you have proved to yourself that another consciousness besides my own exists.
Other peoples consciousness is separate from my own consciousness and the unconscious people are totally separated from their own consciousness altogether.
If you think nothing but my own consciousness exists are you suggesting or claiming your consciousness doesn't exist?

When I die, I presume my own consciousness will cease to exist and I can only presume that other peoples consciousness will still exist and they will still be people on Earth after I die. I make those presumptions due to being conscious of both living people as well as dead people and believing the dead are not conscious of themselves at all. Therefore other living or non living things do not depend on my own consciousness. They will exist regardless of whether I am conscious of their existence and my own or not. Living things existed before I became conscious of them and they will exist after I become unconscious.
Consciousness is the condition of being awake and understanding what is happening around you.
The condition of being asleep and lacking understanding and comprehension also exists.
People who are conscious of that fact, do not claim "nothing except consciousness exists at all."

In what way is a rock conscious?
In what way is a dead person conscious?

Sorry sky, you can only prove to yourself that only YOUR conciousness exists.

Go ahead and prove that i am anything but your imagination. Your body is your imagination. The entire universe is your imagination Skyangel.

I exist in reality. You obviously don't believe you do. You imagine all things including that you even have an imagination. You are totally lost in your own imaginary imagination.
Your own imagination is imaginary and doesn't exist in reality.
Now, go back to your foolish day dreams and imagine whatever you want.

Don't let any of the above words upset you either since you are only imagining them.
Remember they don't exist in reality. They only exist because you put them there with your imagination which also doesn't exist in reality.

I can assure you my imagination isnt so boring as to imagine such a redundant being as you.

Well, it must be if I am nothing but your imagination. Otherwise you would not imagine such a redundant being in the first place. It's your own fault if you see me as redundant since you are the one imagining my existence with your imaginary imaginations in your imaginary mind.
If you don't need me for anything then stop imagining that I exist. Then I might go away. If you can't stop imagining that I exist then maybe I am not a figment of your imagination after all.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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6/30/2016 4:40:02 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 4:28:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 3:07:05 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:53:26 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:14:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 6/30/2016 2:05:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:

No one to my knowledge has ever outrightly claimed that there was nothing before the "big bang". That concept SEEMS to be IMPLIED and GATHERED by many people but I doubt you will even find a site on the net where anyone provides any evidence or proof or even logical reasoning that there was nothing before the "Big Bang"
If you can find one, please point it out to me.
I can find none.


Even if you answer 'God' you are still implying something without a beginning, without a mother or father, something that has always existed without being caused by anything before it.

Either way, people are forced to accept the concept and possibility of infinite regress, infinity and eternity because the eternal question will always exist... "WHAT was BEFORE that 'X' which you suggest or believe
'began' everything after it? "

It was the argument of one of the more prominant atheist debaters on this site against me. I'll post the link.

One persons argument or opinion does not mean all who claim the same label hold exactly the same opinions or perceptions.
All atheists do not agree about everything any more than all believers agree about everything so please don't 'tar all atheists with the same brush'.
Understand that all people are unique with their own unique perspectives.

That's fine. The militant atheists on this site attack beliefs then offer no answer of their own, or they offer an illogical or paradoxed answer, thus making militant atheism arrogant claiming the high ground of knowledge, yet offering no better or equal answer.

The believers attack the atheists unbelief and offer them no logical reason to believe in any invisible person who has alleged supernatural powers and allegedly created the whole universe.

Believers speculate about a God creating the universe because a story said so and they choose to believe it.
Unbelievers speculate about a big bang creating the universe because someone calling himself a scientist came up with the theory and people choose to believe it because it was invented by a scientist and called science.
If you call a speculation a theory and make it look like science, it is accepted by the science nerds.
If you call a speculation faith and make it look like religion, it is accepted by the religious nerds.
Either way it is still a speculation about the beginning when no beginning can be found any more than you can find a beginning of NOW in reality because time is an illusion which exists and does not exist in the very same instant.

In effect people who perceive existence in general (as opposed to individually existing things) as having a beginning are blind to the infinite regress of existence itself. They seem to be stuck in the logic of a one track finite mind which seems to need to believe in an ultimate finite beginning and cannot comprehend infinity and eternity at all.
On the other hand, the part of the human mind which understands the concept of infinite regress will also understand that a beginning to something infinite is impossible to find and therefore there can be no first of anything when it comes to existence in general because it takes existence to create existence.
Existence therefore has an eternal aspect when it comes to its REPRODUCTION CYCLES as well as a finite aspect when it comes to individually existing things within those cycles.
Every existing thing comes from the existing thing before it and there can be no "first' existing thing.
Existence just IS.
Go back to your own statement in post #17 about there being no tense other than is.
Apply the principle to existence. It just exists in the present without past or future.
Time is an illusion and people are deceived by it. People measure things according to the illusion of time. They give things in the universe an 'age' which is relevant to nothing but Earths movement and humans perception of it.

Existence exists in the present tense, in the "NOW" which in itself is an instantaneous 'beginning and end' without a 'beginning and end'. In effect the "NOW" which exists also does not exist at the same time and everything that exists within the "NOW" is as existing and non existing as the "NOW" itself.
Some people manage to understand the 'mystery' irony or paradox and others simply cannot comprehend it.

I have offered many, many reasons to believe. Atheists do not want the information for fear of it interrupting or disrupting their personal worldviews. Most of my debates with atheists have ended with them bailing out of the debate even if they challenged me to the debate in the first place.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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6/30/2016 4:44:57 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 4:35:11 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

We pose an answer. Atheism poses no answer. It's like coming across a serious issue and attacking the only guy who offers a solution then offering no solution. We've given a solution. Now give us yours.
What solution do you offer?
Solution to what?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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6/30/2016 4:48:04 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 4:40:02 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

I have offered many, many reasons to believe.
Reasons that can't be accepted by intelligent humans because only the stupid can be convinced by them.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin