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The lowest age of consent...

the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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12/18/2010 5:01:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
.. in Europe is 12, (the Vatican)

If Catholicism is to be believed does this mean all other countries are wrong to set it at a higher age ?

Do Catholics really agree with the idea of their children legally having sex at the tender age of 12yo ?

Sorry but the ides of my 12yo daughter legally having sex with a 60yo catholic bishop is repulsive, who makes up these rules, the perverted Church of Rome ?
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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12/18/2010 5:14:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:01:31 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
.. in Europe is 12, (the Vatican)

If Catholicism is to be believed does this mean all other countries are wrong to set it at a higher age ?

Do Catholics really agree with the idea of their children legally having sex at the tender age of 12yo ?

Sorry but the ides of my 12yo daughter legally having sex with a 60yo catholic bishop is repulsive, who makes up these rules, the perverted Church of Rome ?

Lol. Do you know who lives in Vatican City? Priests and Nuns. All with a vow of celibacy. That age of consent goes back to the middle ages. There are maybe 50 non celibate in the Vatican City that are not celibate and none of them are under the age of 21.

A dishonest insult against the Church by a dishonest person.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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12/18/2010 5:20:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@the-false-teacher

If you have any legitimate claims I would love to discuss them with you. But I doubt you do. So far you have only made false accusations against something you know nothing about.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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12/18/2010 5:36:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:14:54 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:01:31 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
.. in Europe is 12, (the Vatican)

If Catholicism is to be believed does this mean all other countries are wrong to set it at a higher age ?

Do Catholics really agree with the idea of their children legally having sex at the tender age of 12yo ?

Sorry but the ides of my 12yo daughter legally having sex with a 60yo catholic bishop is repulsive, who makes up these rules, the perverted Church of Rome ?

Lol. Do you know who lives in Vatican City? Priests and Nuns. All with a vow of celibacy. That age of consent goes back to the middle ages. There are maybe 50 non celibate in the Vatican City that are not celibate and none of them are under the age of 21.

A dishonest insult against the Church by a dishonest person.

I'm sorry but your ill informed, Vatican City also has the highest crime rate in Europe, and one of the highest in the world !
http://news.bbc.co.uk...
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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12/18/2010 5:41:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:36:01 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
I'm sorry but your ill informed, Vatican City also has the highest crime rate in Europe, and one of the highest in the world !
http://news.bbc.co.uk...

That is an artifact of population size, not anything indicative of The Vatican itself. Let's say 900 people. 1 Murder for sake of interest. The Vatican has a murderer rate of 1/900 people, one of the highest in the worlddddddddddddddddd!!!!!
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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12/18/2010 5:45:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:20:18 PM, jharry wrote:
@the-false-teacher

If you have any legitimate claims I would love to discuss them with you. But I doubt you do. So far you have only made false accusations against something you know nothing about.

Are you saying the highly paid band of BBC TV researchers are wrong ?, and I should believe you ?
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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12/18/2010 5:46:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:36:01 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:14:54 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:01:31 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
.. in Europe is 12, (the Vatican)

If Catholicism is to be believed does this mean all other countries are wrong to set it at a higher age ?

Do Catholics really agree with the idea of their children legally having sex at the tender age of 12yo ?

Sorry but the ides of my 12yo daughter legally having sex with a 60yo catholic bishop is repulsive, who makes up these rules, the perverted Church of Rome ?

Lol. Do you know who lives in Vatican City? Priests and Nuns. All with a vow of celibacy. That age of consent goes back to the middle ages. There are maybe 50 non celibate in the Vatican City that are not celibate and none of them are under the age of 21.

A dishonest insult against the Church by a dishonest person.

I'm sorry but your ill informed, Vatican City also has the highest crime rate in Europe, and one of the highest in the world !
http://news.bbc.co.uk...

LOL. Dang you are desperate to hate this Church huh. How many people live there? 500? Come on. Please do better then this. And the crime was tourists getting pick pocketed by non Vatican citizens. When you fins something that takes more then 5 seconds to debunk please feel free to come back.

Oh yea. It's best to read the story in the headline before you make an even bigger fool out of yourself.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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12/18/2010 5:47:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:45:11 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:20:18 PM, jharry wrote:
@the-false-teacher

If you have any legitimate claims I would love to discuss them with you. But I doubt you do. So far you have only made false accusations against something you know nothing about.

Are you saying the highly paid band of BBC TV researchers are wrong ?, and I should believe you ?

What is this fallacy? I don't know the name. Puck?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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12/18/2010 5:49:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:42:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
Did you know that the Vatican threatens China with a nuclear war?

Really. That is interesting.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/18/2010 5:49:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
ad authoritatem. I know, I know, latin is a dirty catholic language.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/18/2010 5:50:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:49:23 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:42:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
Did you know that the Vatican threatens China with a nuclear war?

Really. That is interesting.

What's the strategy? Pray for one of China's nukes to hit itself?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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12/18/2010 5:54:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The BBC (BBC 2) have just announced that "Vatican city have a consent age of 12 and also have the highest crime rate in Europe". I didn't announce it they did ! why argue with their researchers ?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/18/2010 6:09:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If the BBC claimed to have documentary evidence that Jesus was rimming Satan, what would you do Teacher?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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12/18/2010 6:18:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 6:09:11 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
If the BBC claimed to have documentary evidence that Jesus was rimming Satan, what would you do Teacher?

I would watch it, with a big bag of popcorn !
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/18/2010 6:23:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 6:18:00 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 12/18/2010 6:09:11 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
If the BBC claimed to have documentary evidence that Jesus was rimming Satan, what would you do Teacher?

I would watch it, with a big bag of popcorn !

Oh, but they aren't broadcasting it, they just claim to have it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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12/18/2010 6:28:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 6:23:32 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/18/2010 6:18:00 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 12/18/2010 6:09:11 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
If the BBC claimed to have documentary evidence that Jesus was rimming Satan, what would you do Teacher?

I would watch it, with a big bag of popcorn !

Oh, but they aren't broadcasting it, they just claim to have it

Well in that case I wouldn't do anything.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/18/2010 6:29:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:49:23 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:42:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
Did you know that the Vatican threatens China with a nuclear war?

Really. That is interesting.
Jest, naturally.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/18/2010 7:04:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 5:14:54 PM, jharry wrote:

Do you know who lives in Vatican City? Priests and Nuns. All with a vow of celibacy.

Apparently, priests molesting little boys doesn't break their celibacy vows. Only 20% of priests who molest little boys are de-frocked. Few even face a Church trial. http://www.nytimes.com...
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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12/18/2010 7:26:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 6:29:00 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:49:23 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:42:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
Did you know that the Vatican threatens China with a nuclear war?

Really. That is interesting.
Jest, naturally.

Naturally. Now if you would have backed up your claim with BBC then would be a different story. :)
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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12/18/2010 7:31:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 7:04:02 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:14:54 PM, jharry wrote:

Do you know who lives in Vatican City? Priests and Nuns. All with a vow of celibacy.

Apparently, priests molesting little boys doesn't break their celibacy vows. Only 20% of priests who molest little boys are de-frocked. Few even face a Church trial. http://www.nytimes.com...

Oh come on bluesteel. Out of everyone on this site I honestly thought you would be the last to appeal to these severely biased attacks. I don't have time to get into it tonight (family/friends coming over) but I would like to pick this conversation up later. Maybe even a debate. You have compared numbers of cover ups and treatment in secular institutions too? And the percentages of molestation as a whole in the US alone in the past thirty years.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/20/2010 1:01:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 7:31:47 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/18/2010 7:04:02 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:14:54 PM, jharry wrote:

Do you know who lives in Vatican City? Priests and Nuns. All with a vow of celibacy.

Apparently, priests molesting little boys doesn't break their celibacy vows. Only 20% of priests who molest little boys are de-frocked. Few even face a Church trial. http://www.nytimes.com...

Oh come on bluesteel. Out of everyone on this site I honestly thought you would be the last to appeal to these severely biased attacks. I don't have time to get into it tonight (family/friends coming over) but I would like to pick this conversation up later. Maybe even a debate. You have compared numbers of cover ups and treatment in secular institutions too? And the percentages of molestation as a whole in the US alone in the past thirty years.

I'm open to a debate on this. I agree, there are cover-ups in the private sector. But when a company like Enron does a cover-up, they are 1) punished by the government and 2) it irreparably destroys their brand name/image. Because the Vatican is its own nation, there is no punishment for the cover-up; it would be like a government cover-up in the U.S. And I think it's fair for people to make arguments as to how the reputation of the Catholic Church has been called into question.

If any private company had an employee who was routinely sexually molesting children, it would throw him to the wolves, not protect him.

Resolved: the Catholic Church has substantially mishandled sexual abuse allegations?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/20/2010 3:15:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 1:01:30 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/18/2010 7:31:47 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/18/2010 7:04:02 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:14:54 PM, jharry wrote:

Do you know who lives in Vatican City? Priests and Nuns. All with a vow of celibacy.

Apparently, priests molesting little boys doesn't break their celibacy vows. Only 20% of priests who molest little boys are de-frocked. Few even face a Church trial. http://www.nytimes.com...

Oh come on bluesteel. Out of everyone on this site I honestly thought you would be the last to appeal to these severely biased attacks. I don't have time to get into it tonight (family/friends coming over) but I would like to pick this conversation up later. Maybe even a debate. You have compared numbers of cover ups and treatment in secular institutions too? And the percentages of molestation as a whole in the US alone in the past thirty years.

I'm open to a debate on this. I agree, there are cover-ups in the private sector. But when a company like Enron does a cover-up, they are 1) punished by the government and 2) it irreparably destroys their brand name/image. Because the Vatican is its own nation, there is no punishment for the cover-up; it would be like a government cover-up in the U.S. And I think it's fair for people to make arguments as to how the reputation of the Catholic Church has been called into question.

If any private company had an employee who was routinely sexually molesting children, it would throw him to the wolves, not protect him.

Resolved: the Catholic Church has substantially mishandled sexual abuse allegations?

To say that there has been a conspiracy in the Catholic church regarding the abuse and molestation of young boys is an understatement, and their handling of this has been archaic and unacceptable, at best.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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12/20/2010 7:51:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I just gained some respect for the Holy See.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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12/20/2010 10:32:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 1:01:30 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/18/2010 7:31:47 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/18/2010 7:04:02 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:14:54 PM, jharry wrote:


Resolved: the Catholic Church has substantially mishandled sexual abuse allegations?

Sounds good I hope you can afford me some time to prepare. I have mountains of sources to pour over and Christmas is near.

Also. I hope your not one of those burden of proof people and you don't rely on semantics.

I would like the resolution and topic description to e more like this though.

Resolved: Comparatively: the Catholic Church has substantially mishandled sexual abuse allegations?

We do need something to compare right? It would be fair or honest to compare the handling of allegations thirty years ago to how it is handled today. Not exclusively anyway. Hindsight is always 20/20 and can be biased.

Let me know. Here or PM will be fine. Thanks.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/20/2010 11:16:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 10:32:34 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/20/2010 1:01:30 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/18/2010 7:31:47 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/18/2010 7:04:02 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/18/2010 5:14:54 PM, jharry wrote:




Resolved: the Catholic Church has substantially mishandled sexual abuse allegations?

Sounds good I hope you can afford me some time to prepare. I have mountains of sources to pour over and Christmas is near.

Also. I hope your not one of those burden of proof people and you don't rely on semantics.

I would like the resolution and topic description to e more like this though.

Resolved: Comparatively: the Catholic Church has substantially mishandled sexual abuse allegations?

We do need something to compare right? It would be fair or honest to compare the handling of allegations thirty years ago to how it is handled today. Not exclusively anyway. Hindsight is always 20/20 and can be biased.

Let me know. Here or PM will be fine. Thanks.

My only question is, why would you try to defend them?
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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12/20/2010 11:54:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think there should be no age of consent. People should be able to have sex when they feel ready. Yes, there would and are people who think they are ready and aren't, but that happens without the law and isn't prevented by the law. We need to somehow get kids to think more about it before they have sex. I think what should be illegal is any situation where one person did not consent to have sex. This is not necessarily rape.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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12/20/2010 11:55:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 11:54:06 PM, rogue wrote:
I think there should be no age of consent.

*All the Muslims stand up and cheer*
kfc