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The real Jesus Atheists want you to ignore

brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Do you actually understand Jesus, or have you drank the atheist kool aid?

(Luke 18:10)
"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector."

(Luke 18:11)
"The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector."

(Luke 18:12)
"I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get."

(Luke 18:13)
"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner."

(Luke 18:14)
"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

*

(1 Peter 4:8)
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

*

(Matthew 11:19)
"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

*

(Mark 2:17)
"On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

*

(John 8:10)
Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

(John 8:11)
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared.

*

(Matthew 21:31)
"Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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7/1/2016 5:44:50 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Do you actually understand Jesus, or have you drank the atheist kool aid?

(Luke 18:10)
"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector."

(Luke 18:11)
"The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector."

(Luke 18:12)
"I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get."

(Luke 18:13)
"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner."

(Luke 18:14)
"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

*

(1 Peter 4:8)
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

*

(Matthew 11:19)
"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

*

(Mark 2:17)
"On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

*

(John 8:10)
Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

(John 8:11)
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared.

*

(Matthew 21:31)
"Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."

Who are these Matthew, Mark, Luke , john , and Peter characters?
They are obviously drunks .
Look at the way they talk.
I wouldn't trust em.
John is only 8- 11. Not even old enough to drink.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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7/1/2016 5:57:02 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

(1 Peter 4:8)
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

Hahahahahahaa jahahah You've failed to adhere to Jesus's words.
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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7/1/2016 6:45:00 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 5:57:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

(1 Peter 4:8)
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

Hahahahahahaa jahahah You've failed to adhere to Jesus's words.

Everyone has, that's part of the message of Christianity...
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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7/1/2016 6:51:09 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 6:45:00 AM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 5:57:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

(1 Peter 4:8)
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

Hahahahahahaa jahahah You've failed to adhere to Jesus's words.

Everyone has, that's part of the message of Christianity...

How convenient. The Christian hypocrites get to pretend moral superiority and pass laws on non-Christians, yet everyone else regardless of religion or deeds is the real sinner, hell bound and ought to obey the hypocrites to save their "soul". How convenient that your religion proposes the disease (sin) and also proposes the solution (Jesus) leaving humanity with only 1 option despite thousands of years of alternative spirituality.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/1/2016 7:06:31 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Do you actually understand Jesus, or have you drank the atheist kool aid?
Just to be clear, Bronto 'drinking the kool aid' had its origins in Jim Jones' Christian socialist cult where unquestioning adherents were induced to commit mass murder and mass suicide through implicit faith in a charismatic theocrat promising them a better afterlife. [https://en.wikipedia.org...] Claiming over 900 lives including 89 infants, this was the biggest loss of civil US life in a single, deliberately-orchestrated incident until the equally fanatical religious attacks of September 11, 2001.

There's some kind of tragic, ignorant irony in your using this term on a target audience of atheists who advocate questioning claims to absolute religious authority, since the incident itself rather proves our point.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/1/2016 8:51:09 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 7:06:31 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Do you actually understand Jesus, or have you drank the atheist kool aid?
Just to be clear, Bronto 'drinking the kool aid' had its origins in Jim Jones' Christian socialist cult where unquestioning adherents were induced to commit mass murder and mass suicide through implicit faith in a charismatic theocrat promising them a better afterlife. [https://en.wikipedia.org...] Claiming over 900 lives including 89 infants, this was the biggest loss of civil US life in a single, deliberately-orchestrated incident until the equally fanatical religious attacks of September 11, 2001.

There's some kind of tragic, ignorant irony in your using this term on a target audience of atheists who advocate questioning claims to absolute religious authority, since the incident itself rather proves our point.

So you've ignored the topic at hand completely by tossing a strawman never thinking I would point out that atheists have killed more people this century than all religions combined.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/1/2016 8:53:10 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 6:51:09 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:45:00 AM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 5:57:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

(1 Peter 4:8)
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

Hahahahahahaa jahahah You've failed to adhere to Jesus's words.

Everyone has, that's part of the message of Christianity...

How convenient. The Christian hypocrites get to pretend moral superiority and pass laws on non-Christians, yet everyone else regardless of religion or deeds is the real sinner, hell bound and ought to obey the hypocrites to save their "soul". How convenient that your religion proposes the disease (sin) and also proposes the solution (Jesus) leaving humanity with only 1 option despite thousands of years of alternative spirituality.

Christians don't declare moral superiority. Quite the opposite. He called sinners.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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7/1/2016 8:54:04 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 8:53:10 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:51:09 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:45:00 AM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 5:57:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

(1 Peter 4:8)
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

Hahahahahahaa jahahah You've failed to adhere to Jesus's words.

Everyone has, that's part of the message of Christianity...

How convenient. The Christian hypocrites get to pretend moral superiority and pass laws on non-Christians, yet everyone else regardless of religion or deeds is the real sinner, hell bound and ought to obey the hypocrites to save their "soul". How convenient that your religion proposes the disease (sin) and also proposes the solution (Jesus) leaving humanity with only 1 option despite thousands of years of alternative spirituality.

Christians don't declare moral superiority. Quite the opposite. He called sinners.

Bronto you're a shining example of how Christians pretend moral superiority.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/1/2016 9:11:01 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 8:54:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 8:53:10 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:51:09 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:45:00 AM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 5:57:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

(1 Peter 4:8)
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

Hahahahahahaa jahahah You've failed to adhere to Jesus's words.

Everyone has, that's part of the message of Christianity...

How convenient. The Christian hypocrites get to pretend moral superiority and pass laws on non-Christians, yet everyone else regardless of religion or deeds is the real sinner, hell bound and ought to obey the hypocrites to save their "soul". How convenient that your religion proposes the disease (sin) and also proposes the solution (Jesus) leaving humanity with only 1 option despite thousands of years of alternative spirituality.

Christians don't declare moral superiority. Quite the opposite. He called sinners.

Bronto you're a shining example of how Christians pretend moral superiority.

We have no moral superiority. We have salvation from our lack thereof. Need I explain all of Jesus' teaching to you or are you familiar with it?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/1/2016 9:51:44 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 9:11:01 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/1/2016 8:54:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 8:53:10 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:51:09 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:45:00 AM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 5:57:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

(1 Peter 4:8)
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

Hahahahahahaa jahahah You've failed to adhere to Jesus's words.

Everyone has, that's part of the message of Christianity...

How convenient. The Christian hypocrites get to pretend moral superiority and pass laws on non-Christians, yet everyone else regardless of religion or deeds is the real sinner, hell bound and ought to obey the hypocrites to save their "soul". How convenient that your religion proposes the disease (sin) and also proposes the solution (Jesus) leaving humanity with only 1 option despite thousands of years of alternative spirituality.

Christians don't declare moral superiority. Quite the opposite. He called sinners.

Bronto you're a shining example of how Christians pretend moral superiority.

We have no moral superiority. We have salvation from our lack thereof. Need I explain all of Jesus' teaching to you or are you familiar with it?

Explain away, craptor.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/1/2016 9:52:15 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 8:51:09 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/1/2016 7:06:31 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/1/2016 2:49:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Do you actually understand Jesus, or have you drank the atheist kool aid?
There's some kind of tragic, ignorant irony in your using this term on a target audience of atheists who advocate questioning claims to absolute religious authority, since the incident itself rather proves our point.
So you've ignored the topic at hand completely by tossing a strawman
It's not a strawman, because I didn't invent that you said it. And what you did was employ an unintendedly ironic use of terminology that made you look ignorant, silly and insensitive.

And since you are having difficulty understanding, let me explain:

Ignorant: you didn't know where the term came from;
Silly: you don't understand atheist concerns about the dangerous of claiming religious authority; and
Insensitive: you used the tragic deaths of religious fanatics to argue for the virtues of your own religious fanaticism.

Really there's nothing else to be said about this thread, Bronto. You post a lot of polemic threads pitching the same tired cut-and-paste ideas stolen from other sites; most are forgettable and I doubt you even remember them yourself, but this one is memorable because of this unfortunate piece of buffoonery. It'll be one I recall for a very long time.
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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7/1/2016 6:45:51 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 6:51:09 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
How convenient. The Christian hypocrites get to pretend moral superiority and pass laws on non-Christians, yet everyone else regardless of religion or deeds is the real sinner, hell bound and ought to obey the hypocrites to save their "soul". How convenient that your religion proposes the disease (sin) and also proposes the solution (Jesus) leaving humanity with only 1 option despite thousands of years of alternative spirituality.

There is 1 God, who has made 1 solution, a final solution. None of this alternative spirituality is true in the Christian view, and it would make sense for the one God, to make one way to heaven, as opposed to confusing people with many.

And, yes, everyone, regardless of deeds or religion is a sinner. Who can claim that they have not lied? Thing is, in the words of Romans 5:8, " God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Also of all the possible answers that this world has come up with, Christianity is the kindest one I've ever seen. All other ones give an idea of scales, and weighing up good and bad. Christianity on the other hand, is just that there is a God, who loves you, and wants to set you free.

Finally, I have no idea where you get this idea from, but Christians by no means want to be worshipped. There is one God, and we are not it.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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7/1/2016 7:21:54 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 6:45:51 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:51:09 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
How convenient. The Christian hypocrites get to pretend moral superiority and pass laws on non-Christians, yet everyone else regardless of religion or deeds is the real sinner, hell bound and ought to obey the hypocrites to save their "soul". How convenient that your religion proposes the disease (sin) and also proposes the solution (Jesus) leaving humanity with only 1 option despite thousands of years of alternative spirituality.

There is 1 God, who has made 1 solution, a final solution. None of this alternative spirituality is true in the Christian view, and it would make sense for the one God, to make one way to heaven, as opposed to confusing people with many.

And yet there are many other religions besides Christianity, it seems many are confused.

And, yes, everyone, regardless of deeds or religion is a sinner. Who can claim that they have not lied? Thing is, in the words of Romans 5:8, " God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Yet Christian theocrats have no trouble throwing the first stone. Hypocrisy.

Also of all the possible answers that this world has come up with, Christianity is the kindest one I've ever seen. All other ones give an idea of scales, and weighing up good and bad. Christianity on the other hand, is just that there is a God, who loves you, and wants to set you free.

I doubt you know much about religion beyond what other Christians have told you.

Finally, I have no idea where you get this idea from, but Christians by no means want to be worshipped. There is one God, and we are not it.

I never said Christians want to be worshiped, I'm saying they're hypocrites who pretend to follow Jesus yet just engage in sin like everyone else while pretending moral superiority.
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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7/1/2016 9:29:54 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 7:21:54 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:45:51 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:51:09 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
How convenient. The Christian hypocrites get to pretend moral superiority and pass laws on non-Christians, yet everyone else regardless of religion or deeds is the real sinner, hell bound and ought to obey the hypocrites to save their "soul". How convenient that your religion proposes the disease (sin) and also proposes the solution (Jesus) leaving humanity with only 1 option despite thousands of years of alternative spirituality.

There is 1 God, who has made 1 solution, a final solution. None of this alternative spirituality is true in the Christian view, and it would make sense for the one God, to make one way to heaven, as opposed to confusing people with many.

And yet there are many other religions besides Christianity, it seems many are confused.

Your point here is unclear.

And, yes, everyone, regardless of deeds or religion is a sinner. Who can claim that they have not lied? Thing is, in the words of Romans 5:8, " God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Yet Christian theocrats have no trouble throwing the first stone. Hypocrisy.

Mabye I'm missing something, but I can't work out what those stones are representing.

Also of all the possible answers that this world has come up with, Christianity is the kindest one I've ever seen. All other ones give an idea of scales, and weighing up good and bad. Christianity on the other hand, is just that there is a God, who loves you, and wants to set you free.

I doubt you know much about religion beyond what other Christians have told you.

Enlighten me. Please.

Finally, I have no idea where you get this idea from, but Christians by no means want to be worshipped. There is one God, and we are not it.

I never said Christians want to be worshiped, I'm saying they're hypocrites who pretend to follow Jesus yet just engage in sin like everyone else while pretending moral superiority.

So... you think it's possible to avoid sin in it's entirity? Christians don't have moral superiority on their own, it comes from God. God, is the one with moral superiority.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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7/1/2016 9:43:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 9:29:54 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 7:21:54 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:45:51 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:51:09 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
How convenient. The Christian hypocrites get to pretend moral superiority and pass laws on non-Christians, yet everyone else regardless of religion or deeds is the real sinner, hell bound and ought to obey the hypocrites to save their "soul". How convenient that your religion proposes the disease (sin) and also proposes the solution (Jesus) leaving humanity with only 1 option despite thousands of years of alternative spirituality.

There is 1 God, who has made 1 solution, a final solution. None of this alternative spirituality is true in the Christian view, and it would make sense for the one God, to make one way to heaven, as opposed to confusing people with many.

And yet there are many other religions besides Christianity, it seems many are confused.

Your point here is unclear.

If the Christian God was the only path towards salvation why are so many non-Christians, like Muslims or Hindus causing billions to stray away? Why would God allowed other religious to flourish if they are false?

And, yes, everyone, regardless of deeds or religion is a sinner. Who can claim that they have not lied? Thing is, in the words of Romans 5:8, " God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Yet Christian theocrats have no trouble throwing the first stone. Hypocrisy.

Mabye I'm missing something, but I can't work out what those stones are representing.

Do you know what a theocrat is? The stones represent laws and judgments by Christian politicians and those who vote for them.

Also of all the possible answers that this world has come up with, Christianity is the kindest one I've ever seen. All other ones give an idea of scales, and weighing up good and bad. Christianity on the other hand, is just that there is a God, who loves you, and wants to set you free.

I doubt you know much about religion beyond what other Christians have told you.

Enlighten me. Please.

Enlighten you about all of non-Christian theology? Go take a religious studies course. My point was that you think Christianity has the kindest message yet you don't seem to know much about the messages of other religions.

Finally, I have no idea where you get this idea from, but Christians by no means want to be worshipped. There is one God, and we are not it.

I never said Christians want to be worshiped, I'm saying they're hypocrites who pretend to follow Jesus yet just engage in sin like everyone else while pretending moral superiority.

So... you think it's possible to avoid sin in it's entirity? Christians don't have moral superiority on their own, it comes from God. God, is the one with moral superiority.

A perfect example of the superior morality complex. "It's not my morals it's Gods morals!" So if one follows Gods morality then one can claim to have superior morals, yes? And when the theocrats pass their religious laws they make the same claim too, that despite being hypocrites their morals are superior.

I don't believe in the Christian definition of sin, so yes, it's entirely possible to avoid sin.
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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7/2/2016 7:16:01 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 9:43:39 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
If the Christian God was the only path towards salvation why are so many non-Christians, like Muslims or Hindus causing billions to stray away? Why would God allowed other religious to flourish if they are false?

Do you know what a theocrat is? The stones represent laws and judgments by Christian politicians and those who vote for them.

So, if you were absolutely terrible at Maths, but had the solution to a question explained in a textbook, you would say that it would make you a hypocrite to point people to the solution in the textbook?

Enlighten you about all of non-Christian theology? Go take a religious studies course. My point was that you think Christianity has the kindest message yet you don't seem to know much about the messages of other religions.

This is what I've got from the other religions from religious studies:

Islam: follow laws to get to heaven
Judeism: follow laws to get up levels in heaven
Buddhism: think your way out of the cycle
Hinduism: be a good person to get out of the cycle

Christianity: accept God's love

A perfect example of the superior morality complex. "It's not my morals it's Gods morals!" So if one follows Gods morality then one can claim to have superior morals, yes?

Yes.

And when the theocrats pass their religious laws they make the same claim too, that despite being hypocrites their morals are superior.

If a theocrat is passing a law that they've made up, then yes, they are a hypocrite.

I don't believe in the Christian definition of sin, so yes, it's entirely possible to avoid sin.

I was talking about the Christian definition of sin.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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7/2/2016 7:30:06 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/2/2016 7:16:01 AM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/1/2016 9:43:39 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
If the Christian God was the only path towards salvation why are so many non-Christians, like Muslims or Hindus causing billions to stray away? Why would God allowed other religious to flourish if they are false?

Do you know what a theocrat is? The stones represent laws and judgments by Christian politicians and those who vote for them.

So, if you were absolutely terrible at Maths, but had the solution to a question explained in a textbook, you would say that it would make you a hypocrite to point people to the solution in the textbook?

We're talking about morality, not math. Moral problems don't necessarily have clear answers like math. The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

Enlighten you about all of non-Christian theology? Go take a religious studies course. My point was that you think Christianity has the kindest message yet you don't seem to know much about the messages of other religions.

This is what I've got from the other religions from religious studies:

Islam: follow laws to get to heaven
Judeism: follow laws to get up levels in heaven
Buddhism: think your way out of the cycle
Hinduism: be a good person to get out of the cycle

Christianity: accept God's love

Yea ... like I said you don't know much about other religions besides what I'm assuming Protestant Christians have told you.

And when the theocrats pass their religious laws they make the same claim too, that despite being hypocrites their morals are superior.

If a theocrat is passing a law that they've made up, then yes, they are a hypocrite.

You don't seem to understand what a theocrat is. They're not just making up a law, they're taking it from scripture and imposing it on everyone else including non-believers. Like laws banning gay marriage and abortion, they have no secular reasoning behind them are are clearly theocratic laws.

I don't believe in the Christian definition of sin, so yes, it's entirely possible to avoid sin.

I was talking about the Christian definition of sin.

Non-Christians aren't beholden to Christian definitions.
Casten
Posts: 391
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7/2/2016 8:05:05 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I don't believe I've ever heard those passages before. They sound like prime candidates for my favorites list. Of course, I'm reading them out of context and I have no idea which Bible version you are using. I'm hoping these have been translated correctly and still hold the same meaning when read in context.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,235
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7/2/2016 11:34:38 AM
Posted: 5 months ago

So, if you were absolutely terrible at Maths, but had the solution to a question explained in a textbook, you would say that it would make you a hypocrite to point people to the solution in the textbook?


And this is the problem. It assumes:

1) The person not holding the book is bad at maths.
2) The person holding the book is allowed to say who is bad at maths, based on what the book says
3) The person holding the book is bad at maths, but claims they are great at maths because they have the book, but immediately back pedal when asked about if they never got the book if they would be bad at maths
4) The book itself seems to be pretty awful at maths
5) The book itself explains nothing ABOUT maths, it only gives the answers, occasionally.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
VirBinarus
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7/3/2016 3:34:02 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

I see this generalisation of Bible stories a lot, but no-one ever gives good examples. Could you?
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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7/3/2016 5:53:19 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 3:34:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

I see this generalisation of Bible stories a lot, but no-one ever gives good examples. Could you?

Have you read the entirety of the Bible?

Christian** God** condoning rape of captive women Numbers 31:17-18

God condoning killing of unbelievers Deuteronomy 13:6-16

God condoning slavery via instruction manual http://rationalwiki.org...

God ordering an entire people be utterly wiped out, even children Samuel 15:2-3; Isaiah 13:15-16

Hypocrisy Bonus!!!!! God condoning abortion (under certain circumstances that have nothing to do with the life of the mother) Numbers 5:11-31
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/9/2016 9:52:16 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 5:53:19 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/3/2016 3:34:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

I see this generalisation of Bible stories a lot, but no-one ever gives good examples. Could you?

Have you read the entirety of the Bible?

Christian** God** condoning rape of captive women Numbers 31:17-18

God condoning killing of unbelievers Deuteronomy 13:6-16

God condoning slavery via instruction manual http://rationalwiki.org...

God ordering an entire people be utterly wiped out, even children Samuel 15:2-3; Isaiah 13:15-16

Hypocrisy Bonus!!!!! God condoning abortion (under certain circumstances that have nothing to do with the life of the mother) Numbers 5:11-31

Yep. Notice you referenced the same Judaism that Jesus reproached and dismantled over and over then ignored Jesus completely.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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7/10/2016 1:58:43 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 9:52:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/3/2016 5:53:19 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/3/2016 3:34:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

I see this generalisation of Bible stories a lot, but no-one ever gives good examples. Could you?

Have you read the entirety of the Bible?

Christian** God** condoning rape of captive women Numbers 31:17-18

God condoning killing of unbelievers Deuteronomy 13:6-16

God condoning slavery via instruction manual http://rationalwiki.org...

God ordering an entire people be utterly wiped out, even children Samuel 15:2-3; Isaiah 13:15-16

Hypocrisy Bonus!!!!! God condoning abortion (under certain circumstances that have nothing to do with the life of the mother) Numbers 5:11-31

Yep. Notice you referenced the same Judaism that Jesus reproached and dismantled over and over then ignored Jesus completely.

So Jesus repudiates God? What's the holy spirits opinion on all this?

And if no think we should follow the old testament how do we know God still hates gays? Jesus said nothing about them. Also when he said he'd come to full fill the law not abolish it - how do you interpret that as abolishing old law?
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/10/2016 2:03:14 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 9:52:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/3/2016 5:53:19 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/3/2016 3:34:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

I see this generalisation of Bible stories a lot, but no-one ever gives good examples. Could you?

Have you read the entirety of the Bible?

Christian** God** condoning rape of captive women Numbers 31:17-18

God condoning killing of unbelievers Deuteronomy 13:6-16

God condoning slavery via instruction manual http://rationalwiki.org...

God ordering an entire people be utterly wiped out, even children Samuel 15:2-3; Isaiah 13:15-16

Hypocrisy Bonus!!!!! God condoning abortion (under certain circumstances that have nothing to do with the life of the mother) Numbers 5:11-31

Yep. Notice you referenced the same Judaism that Jesus reproached and dismantled over and over then ignored Jesus completely.

Wait, isn't Jesus the same God who did all those things?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/10/2016 2:26:46 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 2:03:14 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/9/2016 9:52:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/3/2016 5:53:19 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/3/2016 3:34:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

I see this generalisation of Bible stories a lot, but no-one ever gives good examples. Could you?

Have you read the entirety of the Bible?

Christian** God** condoning rape of captive women Numbers 31:17-18

God condoning killing of unbelievers Deuteronomy 13:6-16

God condoning slavery via instruction manual http://rationalwiki.org...

God ordering an entire people be utterly wiped out, even children Samuel 15:2-3; Isaiah 13:15-16

Hypocrisy Bonus!!!!! God condoning abortion (under certain circumstances that have nothing to do with the life of the mother) Numbers 5:11-31

Yep. Notice you referenced the same Judaism that Jesus reproached and dismantled over and over then ignored Jesus completely.

Wait, isn't Jesus the same God who did all those things?

There were extreme things happen during the age of ignorance. God had to lead extremely ignorant people against even more barbaric, ignorant people according to what they understood. He dealt with animals like animals. Jesus came once the world was enlightened enough to be led at a higher intellectual level. That's according to himself.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/10/2016 2:27:47 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 2:03:14 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/9/2016 9:52:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/3/2016 5:53:19 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/3/2016 3:34:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

I see this generalisation of Bible stories a lot, but no-one ever gives good examples. Could you?

Have you read the entirety of the Bible?

Christian** God** condoning rape of captive women Numbers 31:17-18

God condoning killing of unbelievers Deuteronomy 13:6-16

God condoning slavery via instruction manual http://rationalwiki.org...

God ordering an entire people be utterly wiped out, even children Samuel 15:2-3; Isaiah 13:15-16

Hypocrisy Bonus!!!!! God condoning abortion (under certain circumstances that have nothing to do with the life of the mother) Numbers 5:11-31

Yep. Notice you referenced the same Judaism that Jesus reproached and dismantled over and over then ignored Jesus completely.

Wait, isn't Jesus the same God who did all those things?

Demonstrate to us what "God did".
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/10/2016 2:29:51 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Yep. Notice you referenced the same Judaism that Jesus reproached and dismantled over and over then ignored Jesus completely.

Wait, isn't Jesus the same God who did all those things?

Demonstrate to us what "God did".

Sure, assuming you take the Bible as true, that is. But first, is Jesus that same God, or different?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/10/2016 2:29:58 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 1:58:43 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 9:52:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/3/2016 5:53:19 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/3/2016 3:34:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

I see this generalisation of Bible stories a lot, but no-one ever gives good examples. Could you?

Have you read the entirety of the Bible?

Christian** God** condoning rape of captive women Numbers 31:17-18

God condoning killing of unbelievers Deuteronomy 13:6-16

God condoning slavery via instruction manual http://rationalwiki.org...

God ordering an entire people be utterly wiped out, even children Samuel 15:2-3; Isaiah 13:15-16

Hypocrisy Bonus!!!!! God condoning abortion (under certain circumstances that have nothing to do with the life of the mother) Numbers 5:11-31

Yep. Notice you referenced the same Judaism that Jesus reproached and dismantled over and over then ignored Jesus completely.

So Jesus repudiates God? What's the holy spirits opinion on all this?

And if no think we should follow the old testament how do we know God still hates gays? Jesus said nothing about them. Also when he said he'd come to full fill the law not abolish it - how do you interpret that as abolishing old law?

You are talking in reference to 2 different laws. The pantheon of 10,000 laws of Moses is not the Law of God. The law of God is and was fulfilled in one command.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/10/2016 2:31:08 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 2:26:46 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/10/2016 2:03:14 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/9/2016 9:52:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/3/2016 5:53:19 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/3/2016 3:34:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
The hypocrisy comes from pointing to a book claim it is the most moral of doctrines, yet it is full of violence, misogyny and immoral behavior all condoned by the most moral being of the universe.

I see this generalisation of Bible stories a lot, but no-one ever gives good examples. Could you?

Have you read the entirety of the Bible?

Christian** God** condoning rape of captive women Numbers 31:17-18

God condoning killing of unbelievers Deuteronomy 13:6-16

God condoning slavery via instruction manual http://rationalwiki.org...

God ordering an entire people be utterly wiped out, even children Samuel 15:2-3; Isaiah 13:15-16

Hypocrisy Bonus!!!!! God condoning abortion (under certain circumstances that have nothing to do with the life of the mother) Numbers 5:11-31

Yep. Notice you referenced the same Judaism that Jesus reproached and dismantled over and over then ignored Jesus completely.

Wait, isn't Jesus the same God who did all those things?

There were extreme things happen during the age of ignorance. God had to lead extremely ignorant people against even more barbaric, ignorant people according to what they understood. He dealt with animals like animals. Jesus came once the world was enlightened enough to be led at a higher intellectual level. That's according to himself.

Still not clear to me. Is Jesus the same God who authorized slavery and commanded genocide, or a different God?