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Does Religious Freedom Include Muslims?

Bennett91
Posts: 4,226
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7/1/2016 6:43:10 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
To many southern Baptists the answer is no [http://www.npr.org...].

Why don't Christians understand the Constitution or what freedom *actually* means? I'll never understand how Christian theocrats think they're any better than Muslims who want Sharia.

The hypocrisy is unbearable, yet both sides claim to represent the Abrahamic God. Do Christians not see how they're views are in line with Islam? ISIS kills gays, Christians kill gays, ISIS thinks it ought to run a religious state, Christians think the US is actually run by God. It's maddening how these people think each other is the enemy when in truth they are all the enemy of reason..
Willows
Posts: 2,053
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7/1/2016 9:48:47 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 6:43:10 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
To many southern Baptists the answer is no [http://www.npr.org...].

Why don't Christians understand the Constitution or what freedom *actually* means? I'll never understand how Christian theocrats think they're any better than Muslims who want Sharia.

The hypocrisy is unbearable, yet both sides claim to represent the Abrahamic God. Do Christians not see how they're views are in line with Islam? ISIS kills gays, Christians kill gays, ISIS thinks it ought to run a religious state, Christians think the US is actually run by God. It's maddening how these people think each other is the enemy when in truth they are all the enemy of reason..

As usual, each one is at the others throat trying to prove who has the best imaginary friend.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/1/2016 2:38:35 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 6:43:10 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
To many southern Baptists the answer is no [http://www.npr.org...].

Why don't Christians understand the Constitution or what freedom *actually* means? I'll never understand how Christian theocrats think they're any better than Muslims who want Sharia.

The hypocrisy is unbearable, yet both sides claim to represent the Abrahamic God. Do Christians not see how they're views are in line with Islam? ISIS kills gays, Christians kill gays, ISIS thinks it ought to run a religious state, Christians think the US is actually run by God. It's maddening how these people think each other is the enemy when in truth they are all the enemy of reason..

As an atheist, I would much rather live in a Christian dominated country than a Muslim dominated country that enforces Sharia law. I'm surprised that you feel both are equal.

If one group publically condemns a person for having sex outside of marriage and another group publically flogs them, do you feel it is just an equal matter of opinion?

Christian fundamentalism is bad but Sharia law is far worse. Here are some reasons why:
http://ibloga.blogspot.com...
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/1/2016 2:44:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Another thought.

I used to be a Christian but I am not longer one. I can freely state my opinions without fear of death.

If I were an ex Muslim, I would be executed under Sharia law.

http://www.godcontention.org...

Is one worse than the other?
Canuck
Posts: 164
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7/1/2016 3:36:03 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 2:44:14 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Another thought.

I used to be a Christian but I am not longer one. I can freely state my opinions without fear of death.

If I were an ex Muslim, I would be executed under Sharia law.

http://www.godcontention.org...

Is one worse than the other?

I absolutely agree with you. But if you look at history, Christian leaders/organizations have not been so tolerant.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/1/2016 3:49:07 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 3:36:03 PM, Canuck wrote:
At 7/1/2016 2:44:14 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Another thought.

I used to be a Christian but I am not longer one. I can freely state my opinions without fear of death.

If I were an ex Muslim, I would be executed under Sharia law.

http://www.godcontention.org...

Is one worse than the other?

I absolutely agree with you. But if you look at history, Christian leaders/organizations have not been so tolerant.

That's correct. Islam needs to evolve similar to Christianity if they are going to be equally bad. Right now, Islam is far worse.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/1/2016 4:16:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
The fact that you attribute these opinions to Christians is despicable. You are dealing with mistaken identity here.

Of course religious freedom applies to Muslims. If you are going to practice the Christian discipline, you are technically a Muslim anyway. The Qur'an confirms this when it refers to Jesus and his followers as being Muslim. The Qur'an confirms this when it refers to these Old Testament biblical prophets as Muslims. The Qur'an confirms this when it speaks of sincere Christians.

A Muslim is "One who submits to God", and acceptance and submission to God is intrinsic to the Christian discipline.

As far as I'm concerned, a real Muslim is my brother in faith.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
missmedic
Posts: 387
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7/1/2016 4:22:00 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 6:43:10 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
To many southern Baptists the answer is no [http://www.npr.org...].

Why don't Christians understand the Constitution or what freedom *actually* means? I'll never understand how Christian theocrats think they're any better than Muslims who want Sharia.

The hypocrisy is unbearable, yet both sides claim to represent the Abrahamic God. Do Christians not see how they're views are in line with Islam? ISIS kills gays, Christians kill gays, ISIS thinks it ought to run a religious state, Christians think the US is actually run by God. It's maddening how these people think each other is the enemy when in truth they are all the enemy of reason..

The respect moderates demand for their faith, empowers the extremist and their faith...............................
Faith is the enemy not religion, end faith and religion will die.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/1/2016 4:23:45 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
And notice that the problem that people always seem to have with these things has to do with the fact that they usually admit to practicing or feel that it is ok to defend adulterers, sodomites, or infidels.

These are clearly people who just want an excuse to be perverse and wicked. They don't care about truth at all, they only want to satisfy their own lusts. They'll go to such great lengths to do this too.

Do you practice wickedness? Don't take pride in your evil! Be honest about how it isn't right, be convicted, and do the right thing! Repent and believe the good news!
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,221
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7/1/2016 4:25:32 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 2:38:35 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/1/2016 6:43:10 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
To many southern Baptists the answer is no [http://www.npr.org...].

Why don't Christians understand the Constitution or what freedom *actually* means? I'll never understand how Christian theocrats think they're any better than Muslims who want Sharia.

The hypocrisy is unbearable, yet both sides claim to represent the Abrahamic God. Do Christians not see how they're views are in line with Islam? ISIS kills gays, Christians kill gays, ISIS thinks it ought to run a religious state, Christians think the US is actually run by God. It's maddening how these people think each other is the enemy when in truth they are all the enemy of reason..

As an atheist, I would much rather live in a Christian dominated country than a Muslim dominated country that enforces Sharia law. I'm surprised that you feel both are equal.

If one group publically condemns a person for having sex outside of marriage and another group publically flogs them, do you feel it is just an equal matter of opinion?

Christian fundamentalism is bad but Sharia law is far worse. Here are some reasons why:
http://ibloga.blogspot.com...

You realize that its the trend AWAY from theism as a system of rule that prevents those horrors from happening, not embracing them whole heartedly, right?

Inquisitions, witch hunts, crusades, these are what happened when a religion was the de facto authority of the land. When the power was delegated to the people for representation in laws, that all seemed to evaporate.

Christendom doesn't do that -anymore-, though were they in 100% authoritarian power, its arguable they wouldn't do it any less, either.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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7/1/2016 4:27:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 4:16:01 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
The fact that you attribute these opinions to Christians is despicable. You are dealing with mistaken identity here.


Of course religious freedom applies to Muslims. If you are going to practice the Christian discipline, you are technically a Muslim anyway. The Qur'an confirms this when it refers to Jesus and his followers as being Muslim. The Qur'an confirms this when it refers to these Old Testament biblical prophets as Muslims. The Qur'an confirms this when it speaks of sincere Christians.
Well of course, after all, Lafayette tells us that from the beginning of human existence we were all infected by Thetans.
If someone says it's true then it must be true.
What is your relationship with your Thetan like, are you guys cool?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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7/1/2016 4:34:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 4:23:45 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
And notice that the problem that people always seem to have with these things has to do with the fact that they usually admit to practicing or feel that it is ok to defend adulterers, sodomites, or infidels.
To which sodomites do you refer?
These are clearly people who just want an excuse to be perverse and wicked. They don't care about truth at all, they only want to satisfy their own lusts. They'll go to such
great lengths to do this too.
Those married heterosexual couples are absolutely perverse and wicked. We can all see that if we had SPIT's surveillance system.
Do you practice wickedness? Don't take pride in your evil! Be honest about how it isn't right, be convicted, and do the right thing! Repent and believe the good news!
So what was it that you were convicted of that turned you around?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/1/2016 4:50:50 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Bulproof, if you are going to keep talking to me, I'd like you to know that I find you more enjoyable when you aren't huffing air duster and snorting detergent.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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7/1/2016 4:55:24 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 4:50:50 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Bulproof, if you are going to keep talking to me, I'd like you to know that I find you more enjoyable when you aren't huffing air duster and snorting detergent.
My questions always put the religionists into a tizz, poor things, you just keep trying to achieve human status and everyone you know will be impressed by your efforts.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Bennett91
Posts: 4,226
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7/1/2016 7:25:28 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 2:44:14 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Another thought.

I used to be a Christian but I am not longer one. I can freely state my opinions without fear of death.

If I were an ex Muslim, I would be executed under Sharia law.

http://www.godcontention.org...

Is one worse than the other?

It's not Christianity that prevent you from being stoned in public, its modern secularism and enlightenment reasoning. Without those Chirstians would be just as barbaric in their treatment of non-christians. And in the US it's not Muslims who are passing religiously derived laws on others. So yea, Christians are just as bad as Muslims.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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7/1/2016 10:59:02 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 6:43:10 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
To many southern Baptists the answer is no [http://www.npr.org...].

Why don't Christians understand the Constitution or what freedom *actually* means? I'll never understand how Christian theocrats think they're any better than Muslims who want Sharia.

The hypocrisy is unbearable, yet both sides claim to represent the Abrahamic God. Do Christians not see how they're views are in line with Islam? ISIS kills gays, Christians kill gays, ISIS thinks it ought to run a religious state, Christians think the US is actually run by God. It's maddening how these people think each other is the enemy when in truth they are all the enemy of reason..

I recently went to support a young man new to our boy scout troop at his Eagle board. For those not familiar, the rank of Eagle scout is granted to recognize character and achievement and is the culmination of years and years of hard work. The rank of Eagle was denied to this young man because, essentially, his religious beliefs did not line up with the board. He was crushed. His beliefs fall somewhere close to deism (which is still a believer) and the board all solidly Christian. It was surreal in a way because the church where the review took place had "support religious freedom" signs all over the place, and in the midst of these signs religious freedom was being attacked.

As far as the OP, I agree with you completely. Muslims are entitled to religious freedom just as Christians, Jews, Buhddists, etc., are. The comments regarding sharia law and Islam being so much worse than Christianity are irrelevant since religious freedom doesn't allow sharia law and our laws disallow any nuttiness whether that be religious or not.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten