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EtrnlVw
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7/3/2016 8:12:00 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
God, it makes no suggestions about the existence of God in any way shape or form why? because it studies the natural world and how it functions, not why it exists, that's it's job.... to study material phenomena. When it's forced into an ideology that it does not support it becomes a false argument. Therefore Theists are not arguing against science, but rather an ideology that stems from atheism, not the study of what God created and how it functions.

Atheism, materialism claims that God does not exist not science, science minds it's own business doing what it does, which is to study the creation of God...the natural world.

Atheism makes the false claim due to it's ideologies, not because science verifies this. They essentially use secular science as a means to justify their position, unlawfully, because that is going outside the domain of what science is for. Which is the systematic study of the material universe.

Science...in all it's glory should never be used against it's own study, to be used against it's own will is completely inappropriate, science and Theism are compatible.
Omniverse
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7/3/2016 8:18:58 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:12:00 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
God, it makes no suggestions about the existence of God in any way shape or form why?

Wrong.
If God interacts with our reality, Science should have a word on it.

because it studies the natural world and how it functions, not why it exists

You first have to demonstrate that there is a why in the first place.

, that's it's job.... to study material phenomena. When it's forced into an ideology that it does not support it becomes a false argument. Therefore Theists are not arguing against science, but rather an ideology that stems from atheism, not the study of what God created and how it functions.


Again, your knowledge on the topic is very lacking.
Not all atheists are ontological materialists, which is what you're referring to.
Educate yourself.

Atheism, materialism claims that God does not exist not science, science minds it's own business doing what it does, which is to study the creation of God...the natural world.


Wrong and wrong.
Educate yourself.

Atheism makes the false claim due to it's ideologies, not because science verifies this.

Wrong.

They essentially use secular science as a means to justify their position,

That's right. Contrast this with what some theists do, which is to simply make stuff up.

unlawfully, because that is going outside the domain of what science is for. Which is the systematic study of the material universe.


Again, you're wrong. Educate yourself.
If this is the same level of knowledge you have on the Theory of Evolution, no wonder you have the stance you have.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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7/3/2016 8:37:50 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:18:58 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:12:00 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
God, it makes no suggestions about the existence of God in any way shape or form why?

Wrong.
If God interacts with our reality, Science should have a word on it.

No it shouldn't, that's simple to infer when you realize the nature of God, the nature of what science studies.


because it studies the natural world and how it functions, not why it exists

You first have to demonstrate that there is a why in the first place.

I cannot demonstrate that, you cannot demonstrate the opposite. So...we utilize common sense.



, that's it's job.... to study material phenomena. When it's forced into an ideology that it does not support it becomes a false argument. Therefore Theists are not arguing against science, but rather an ideology that stems from atheism, not the study of what God created and how it functions.


Again, your knowledge on the topic is very lacking.

Nothing in the above is lacking anything, you just may not like it.

Not all atheists are ontological materialists, which is what you're referring to.
Educate yourself.

If they are not materialists....what are they. I'd like to hear the alternative.


Atheism, materialism claims that God does not exist not science, science minds it's own business doing what it does, which is to study the creation of God...the natural world.


Wrong and wrong.
Educate yourself.

That was completely true, educate yourself. Wrong, is not a rebuttal.


Atheism makes the false claim due to it's ideologies, not because science verifies this.

Wrong.

Then what is atheism supported by? Again, wrong is not a rebuttal.


They essentially use secular science as a means to justify their position,

That's right. Contrast this with what some theists do, which is to simply make stuff up.

Really? I'm making stuff up? or are you??


unlawfully, because that is going outside the domain of what science is for. Which is the systematic study of the material universe.


Again, you're wrong. Educate yourself.
If this is the same level of knowledge you have on the Theory of Evolution, no wonder you have the stance you have.

You have done nothing but use the word wrong, that is not a rebuttal, try again.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Because God by definition cannot be known, God falls outside the realm of knowledge, or science.

That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that our representations of God are not God.

God is The Ultimate Reality. It's absurd to think that you can prove this any more than you can prove that it is true that truth exists.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Cobalt
Posts: 991
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7/3/2016 8:47:58 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:12:00 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
God, it makes no suggestions about the existence of God in any way shape or form why? because it studies the natural world and how it functions, not why it exists, that's it's job.... to study material phenomena. When it's forced into an ideology that it does not support it becomes a false argument. Therefore Theists are not arguing against science, but rather an ideology that stems from atheism, not the study of what God created and how it functions.

Atheism, materialism claims that God does not exist not science, science minds it's own business doing what it does, which is to study the creation of God...the natural world.

Atheism makes the false claim due to it's ideologies, not because science verifies this. They essentially use secular science as a means to justify their position, unlawfully, because that is going outside the domain of what science is for. Which is the systematic study of the material universe.

Science...in all it's glory should never be used against it's own study, to be used against it's own will is completely inappropriate, science and Theism are compatible.

In instances in which a god supposedly interacted in the world in some way, science can look to see if these occurred. For instance, if a biblical account had a "great flood" happening at some point, science could look at the natural world and determine whether a flood actually happened.

I don't think atheists have ever claimed that science "disproves god", since that type of assertion is more philosophical and than scientific. However, science does lead one to say, "Well look, this event A was supposed to have occurred in a particular way according to the bible. When we look though, it seems that event A did not occur in that way."

In this way, science can somewhat speak about theism, in specific cases.
Omniverse
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7/3/2016 8:51:20 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:37:50 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:18:58 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:12:00 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
God, it makes no suggestions about the existence of God in any way shape or form why?

Wrong.
If God interacts with our reality, Science should have a word on it.

No it shouldn't, that's simple to infer when you realize the nature of God, the nature of what science studies.


Again, If God manifests in the natural word, Science can have a word on the matter.


because it studies the natural world and how it functions, not why it exists

You first have to demonstrate that there is a why in the first place.

I cannot demonstrate that, you cannot demonstrate the opposite. So...we utilize common sense.


So you assert that there is a why but cannot demonstrate I?
Good you recognize that.



, that's it's job.... to study material phenomena. When it's forced into an ideology that it does not support it becomes a false argument. Therefore Theists are not arguing against science, but rather an ideology that stems from atheism, not the study of what God created and how it functions.


Again, your knowledge on the topic is very lacking.

Nothing in the above is lacking anything, you just may not like it.


It's all wrong. There is no ideology driving Science as a whole except that of the search for truth and knowledge. Science goes where the evidence leads.

Not all atheists are ontological materialists, which is what you're referring to.
Educate yourself.

If they are not materialists....what are they. I'd like to hear the alternative.


Boy, you really have a very narrow and limited knowledge on the topic
Buddhists are thought to be , generally speaking, atheists and they believe in spiritual dimension(s). Got that?. Same with Daoists, and a number of major religious denominations.

Educate yourself.

Did you know, for example, that there are atheists who are also creationists?
Of course you didn't.


Atheism, materialism claims that God does not exist not science, science minds it's own business doing what it does, which is to study the creation of God...the natural world.


Wrong and wrong.
Educate yourself.

That was completely true, educate yourself. Wrong, is not a rebuttal.


Atheism does not necessarily claim that no Gods exist.
Educate yourself.


Atheism makes the false claim due to it's ideologies, not because science verifies this.

Wrong.

Then what is atheism supported by? Again, wrong is not a rebuttal.


Atheism is supported by the lack of evidence, the inability of theists to provide evidence for their claims. And that is all [weak] Atheism needs to justify itself.


They essentially use secular science as a means to justify their position,

That's right. Contrast this with what some theists do, which is to simply make stuff up.

Really? I'm making stuff up? or are you??


You are. You claim there is a purpose to all this but can't even name it.
What a stunning intelectual success.


unlawfully, because that is going outside the domain of what science is for. Which is the systematic study of the material universe.


Again, you're wrong. Educate yourself.
If this is the same level of knowledge you have on the Theory of Evolution, no wonder you have the stance you have.

You have done nothing but use the word wrong, that is not a rebuttal, try again.

Because you are demonstrably wrong on every single instance you have decided to assert something concerning the topic at hand.

Educate yourself.
EtrnlVw
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7/3/2016 8:51:41 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Because God by definition cannot be known, God falls outside the realm of knowledge, or science.

I agree with this half way, however I think it is a misrepresentation to say God cannot be known, otherwise religion would be worthless, Jesus would be worthless, the teachings of Jesus become worthless. I think we should be careful how we word things.

That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that our representations of God are not God.

In some cases exactly, but we can have a true representation of God, by understanding His nature through applying.


God is The Ultimate Reality. It's absurd to think that you can prove this any more than you can prove that it is true that truth exists.

So then you disagree with Jesus? about the fruit of the spirit?? Of course a believer can prove the existence of God, if they believe Jesus was a representation of God then His words and teachings can not only be evaluated, but observed. That's the point of Christianity, that we walk in the truth, not just believe it but to abide in it.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/3/2016 8:56:38 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:51:41 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Because God by definition cannot be known, God falls outside the realm of knowledge, or science.

I agree with this half way, however I think it is a misrepresentation to say God cannot be known, otherwise religion would be worthless, Jesus would be worthless, the teachings of Jesus become worthless. I think we should be careful how we word things.

That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that our representations of God are not God.

In some cases exactly, but we can have a true representation of God, by understanding His nature through applying.


God is The Ultimate Reality. It's absurd to think that you can prove this any more than you can prove that it is true that truth exists.

So then you disagree with Jesus? about the fruit of the spirit?? Of course a believer can prove the existence of God, if they believe Jesus was a representation of God then His words and teachings can not only be evaluated, but observed. That's the point of Christianity, that we walk in the truth, not just believe it but to abide in it.

God can be recognized, but not known.

I don't believe that a believer can prove the existence of God. I think only God can prove the existence of God. It says in scripture that God has been revealed to everyone, and that the people who deny God have willingly traded in the truth for a lie.

For this reason, I tend to go the route of getting people to understand language properly, because then it makes it pretty obvious who is simply being petulant about God. A lot of atheists are just ignorant. Then there are the atheists who hate God because they are greater lovers of themselves than Truth.

I'm a practicing Christian and missionary, so I'm not trying to belittle the discipline.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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7/3/2016 8:58:20 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:47:58 PM, Cobalt wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:12:00 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
God, it makes no suggestions about the existence of God in any way shape or form why? because it studies the natural world and how it functions, not why it exists, that's it's job.... to study material phenomena. When it's forced into an ideology that it does not support it becomes a false argument. Therefore Theists are not arguing against science, but rather an ideology that stems from atheism, not the study of what God created and how it functions.

Atheism, materialism claims that God does not exist not science, science minds it's own business doing what it does, which is to study the creation of God...the natural world.

Atheism makes the false claim due to it's ideologies, not because science verifies this. They essentially use secular science as a means to justify their position, unlawfully, because that is going outside the domain of what science is for. Which is the systematic study of the material universe.

Science...in all it's glory should never be used against it's own study, to be used against it's own will is completely inappropriate, science and Theism are compatible.

In instances in which a god supposedly interacted in the world in some way, science can look to see if these occurred. For instance, if a biblical account had a "great flood" happening at some point, science could look at the natural world and determine whether a flood actually happened.

So a flood never happened? also you need to be careful, that God could cause something yet have no material base to prove it was God that caused it.


I don't think atheists have ever claimed that science "disproves god", since that type of assertion is more philosophical and than scientific. However, science does lead one to say, "Well look, this event A was supposed to have occurred in a particular way according to the bible. When we look though, it seems that event A did not occur in that way."

Yes atheists claim that all the time, how can I......a Theist that has been speaking with atheists for quite some time now not know this, how can you not know this??? just follow my posts, it will pop up...believe me.

In this way, science can somewhat speak about theism, in specific cases.

Like how? how can science accommodate God and His existence?
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/3/2016 8:59:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:51:41 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Because God by definition cannot be known, God falls outside the realm of knowledge, or science.

I agree with this half way, however I think it is a misrepresentation to say God cannot be known, otherwise religion would be worthless, Jesus would be worthless, the teachings of Jesus become worthless. I think we should be careful how we word things.


See how you are tremendously lacking in the epistemology department?
What you did there is a fallacy known as Appeal to Consequences.
It's a shining example of it!

Gosh.
Do educate yourself.

That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that our representations of God are not God.

In some cases exactly, but we can have a true representation of God, by understanding His nature through applying.


Understand through applying?
That's a new one.
Must be because of so much applying that Christianity at large is such a smashing success. They can't even agree on the nature of God, with all the "applying".


God is The Ultimate Reality. It's absurd to think that you can prove this any more than you can prove that it is true that truth exists.

So then you disagree with Jesus? about the fruit of the spirit?? Of course a believer can prove the existence of God, if they believe Jesus was a representation of God then His words and teachings can not only be evaluated, but observed. That's the point of Christianity, that we walk in the truth, not just believe it but to abide in it.

Again, we have 20 centuries of continual Christian success...
The success is almost unbearable.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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7/3/2016 9:02:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:56:38 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:51:41 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Because God by definition cannot be known, God falls outside the realm of knowledge, or science.

I agree with this half way, however I think it is a misrepresentation to say God cannot be known, otherwise religion would be worthless, Jesus would be worthless, the teachings of Jesus become worthless. I think we should be careful how we word things.

That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that our representations of God are not God.

In some cases exactly, but we can have a true representation of God, by understanding His nature through applying.


God is The Ultimate Reality. It's absurd to think that you can prove this any more than you can prove that it is true that truth exists.

So then you disagree with Jesus? about the fruit of the spirit?? Of course a believer can prove the existence of God, if they believe Jesus was a representation of God then His words and teachings can not only be evaluated, but observed. That's the point of Christianity, that we walk in the truth, not just believe it but to abide in it.

God can be recognized, but not known.

Can you distinguish that please...


I don't believe that a believer can prove the existence of God. I think only God can prove the existence of God. It says in scripture that God has been revealed to everyone, and that the people who deny God have willingly traded in the truth for a lie.

Correct, we cannot prove God but to anyone but ourselves....but to apply means to observe, without observation....there would be nothing to apply...essentially making your beliefs worthless.


For this reason, I tend to go the route of getting people to understand language properly, because then it makes it pretty obvious who is simply being petulant about God. A lot of atheists are just ignorant. Then there are the atheists who hate God because they are greater lovers of themselves than Truth.

For this reason as I explained in my OP, I tend to go the route of explaining the nature of God and how it applies to us, otherwise they won't give a poop. They want something realistic, not just words. Fortunately for them spirituality isn't about words but about results.

I'm a practicing Christian and missionary, so I'm not trying to belittle the discipline.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/3/2016 9:09:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 9:02:37 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:56:38 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:51:41 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Because God by definition cannot be known, God falls outside the realm of knowledge, or science.

I agree with this half way, however I think it is a misrepresentation to say God cannot be known, otherwise religion would be worthless, Jesus would be worthless, the teachings of Jesus become worthless. I think we should be careful how we word things.

That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that our representations of God are not God.

In some cases exactly, but we can have a true representation of God, by understanding His nature through applying.


God is The Ultimate Reality. It's absurd to think that you can prove this any more than you can prove that it is true that truth exists.

So then you disagree with Jesus? about the fruit of the spirit?? Of course a believer can prove the existence of God, if they believe Jesus was a representation of God then His words and teachings can not only be evaluated, but observed. That's the point of Christianity, that we walk in the truth, not just believe it but to abide in it.

God can be recognized, but not known.

Can you distinguish that please...


I don't believe that a believer can prove the existence of God. I think only God can prove the existence of God. It says in scripture that God has been revealed to everyone, and that the people who deny God have willingly traded in the truth for a lie.

Correct, we cannot prove God but to anyone but ourselves....but to apply means to observe, without observation....there would be nothing to apply...essentially making your beliefs worthless.

My position is scriptural, and I don't believe it is worthless. I obviously do a lot of evangelical work.

I'm not disagreeing with you otherwise.

For this reason, I tend to go the route of getting people to understand language properly, because then it makes it pretty obvious who is simply being petulant about God. A lot of atheists are just ignorant. Then there are the atheists who hate God because they are greater lovers of themselves than Truth.

For this reason as I explained in my OP, I tend to go the route of explaining the nature of God and how it applies to us, otherwise they won't give a poop. They want something realistic, not just words. Fortunately for them spirituality isn't about words but about results.

Yeah, that is assuming these people are honest and care about the truth more than their own lusts. I need to do what I do. It may not benefit the people I'm talking to, but there are observers who are going to have the arbitrariness and dishonesty of these atheists revealed to them through these interactions. I don't know if you've been paying attention to what I've been doing, but the whole time I've been on this forum, I've pretty much been getting atheists to admit that they don't believe in reality. I'm doing my part to discredit their position, I assure you. I care about the children who are fooled by these devils.

You do your thing, I do my thing. There is a place for it all in the body of Christ.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
EtrnlVw
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7/3/2016 9:11:05 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 9:09:55 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:02:37 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:56:38 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:51:41 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Because God by definition cannot be known, God falls outside the realm of knowledge, or science.

I agree with this half way, however I think it is a misrepresentation to say God cannot be known, otherwise religion would be worthless, Jesus would be worthless, the teachings of Jesus become worthless. I think we should be careful how we word things.

That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that our representations of God are not God.

In some cases exactly, but we can have a true representation of God, by understanding His nature through applying.


God is The Ultimate Reality. It's absurd to think that you can prove this any more than you can prove that it is true that truth exists.

So then you disagree with Jesus? about the fruit of the spirit?? Of course a believer can prove the existence of God, if they believe Jesus was a representation of God then His words and teachings can not only be evaluated, but observed. That's the point of Christianity, that we walk in the truth, not just believe it but to abide in it.

God can be recognized, but not known.

Can you distinguish that please...


I don't believe that a believer can prove the existence of God. I think only God can prove the existence of God. It says in scripture that God has been revealed to everyone, and that the people who deny God have willingly traded in the truth for a lie.

Correct, we cannot prove God but to anyone but ourselves....but to apply means to observe, without observation....there would be nothing to apply...essentially making your beliefs worthless.

My position is scriptural, and I don't believe it is worthless. I obviously do a lot of evangelical work.

I'm not disagreeing with you otherwise.

For this reason, I tend to go the route of getting people to understand language properly, because then it makes it pretty obvious who is simply being petulant about God. A lot of atheists are just ignorant. Then there are the atheists who hate God because they are greater lovers of themselves than Truth.

For this reason as I explained in my OP, I tend to go the route of explaining the nature of God and how it applies to us, otherwise they won't give a poop. They want something realistic, not just words. Fortunately for them spirituality isn't about words but about results.

Yeah, that is assuming these people are honest and care about the truth more than their own lusts. I need to do what I do. It may not benefit the people I'm talking to, but there are observers who are going to have the arbitrariness and dishonesty of these atheists revealed to them through these interactions. I don't know if you've been paying attention to what I've been doing, but the whole time I've been on this forum, I've pretty much been getting atheists to admit that they don't believe in reality. I'm doing my part to discredit their position, I assure you. I care about the children who are fooled by these devils.

You do your thing, I do my thing. There is a place for it all in the body of Christ.

Okay, I can deal with that.
Omniverse
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7/3/2016 9:19:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 9:09:55 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I've pretty much been getting atheists to admit that they don't believe in reality.

Liar, vicious liar, ignorant slimy buffoon lacking a spine.
In a nutshell, that's SpiritandTruth.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/3/2016 9:27:33 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 9:19:12 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:09:55 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I've pretty much been getting atheists to admit that they don't believe in reality.

Liar, vicious liar, ignorant slimy buffoon lacking a spine.
In a nutshell, that's SpiritandTruth.

You sure do assume a lot about me considering you have no idea who I am.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Omniverse
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7/3/2016 9:33:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 9:27:33 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:19:12 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:09:55 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I've pretty much been getting atheists to admit that they don't believe in reality.

Liar, vicious liar, ignorant slimy buffoon lacking a spine.
In a nutshell, that's SpiritandTruth.

You sure do assume a lot about me considering you have no idea who I am.

As I said before, you're probably a decent guy in person - then again, I'm not so sure anymore - but as SpiritandTruth you epitomize everything that's despicable and disgusting.

Given the language you use, you're not even a Christian according to the criteria set by the Bible.
What a joke you are.
SpiritandTruth
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7/3/2016 9:38:43 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 9:33:30 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:27:33 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:19:12 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:09:55 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I've pretty much been getting atheists to admit that they don't believe in reality.

Liar, vicious liar, ignorant slimy buffoon lacking a spine.
In a nutshell, that's SpiritandTruth.

You sure do assume a lot about me considering you have no idea who I am.

As I said before, you're probably a decent guy in person - then again, I'm not so sure anymore - but as SpiritandTruth you epitomize everything that's despicable and disgusting.

Given the language you use, you're not even a Christian according to the criteria set by the Bible.
What a joke you are.

I certainly don't feel guilty. I do however, see your attempts to shame me as a sign of weakness.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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7/3/2016 9:43:44 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 9:33:30 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:27:33 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:19:12 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:09:55 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I've pretty much been getting atheists to admit that they don't believe in reality.

Liar, vicious liar, ignorant slimy buffoon lacking a spine.
In a nutshell, that's SpiritandTruth.

You sure do assume a lot about me considering you have no idea who I am.

As I said before, you're probably a decent guy in person - then again, I'm not so sure anymore - but as SpiritandTruth you epitomize everything that's despicable and disgusting.

Given the language you use, you're not even a Christian according to the criteria set by the Bible.

I wonder, which part of the criteria does he not fit then?

As far as I have seen, I am encouraged by the correctness SpiritandTruth's answers, and how he has mostly stayed out of the vicious argumentativity that DDO can put one in.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/3/2016 9:53:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 9:43:44 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:33:30 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:27:33 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:19:12 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:09:55 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I've pretty much been getting atheists to admit that they don't believe in reality.

Liar, vicious liar, ignorant slimy buffoon lacking a spine.
In a nutshell, that's SpiritandTruth.

You sure do assume a lot about me considering you have no idea who I am.

As I said before, you're probably a decent guy in person - then again, I'm not so sure anymore - but as SpiritandTruth you epitomize everything that's despicable and disgusting.

Given the language you use, you're not even a Christian according to the criteria set by the Bible.

I wonder, which part of the criteria does he not fit then?

As far as I have seen, I am encouraged by the correctness SpiritandTruth's answers, and how he has mostly stayed out of the vicious argumentativity that DDO can put one in.

I take it you know very little about Christianity so that you would not have heard of the Fruits of the Spirit, or of giving the other cheek. And I'll be honest: if you condone, no, not condone, if you approve and laud SpiritandTruth's vile vicious methods, which include outright lying with all his teeth, and insulting language, then you're just as good as he is and I redistribute the aforementioned adjectives to you as well.

Cheers.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/3/2016 9:59:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
If I am a liar, I certainly am not aware of it.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/3/2016 10:00:56 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
A great deal of discipleship has to do with heart purification. A good scientist is going to see the importance of this.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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7/4/2016 12:16:15 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 9:59:30 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
If I am a liar, I certainly am not aware of it.

Thats the problem.

Thus far, that is all you have been doing. Take this thread for example. You say God can never be known, then in the same post go on to describe that "God is...", as well as pointing to various dictionary examples in which to define Him in other posts.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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7/4/2016 12:20:09 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:12:00 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
God, it makes no suggestions about the existence of God in any way shape or form why? because it studies the natural world and how it functions, not why it exists, that's it's job.... to study material phenomena. When it's forced into an ideology that it does not support it becomes a false argument. Therefore Theists are not arguing against science, but rather an ideology that stems from atheism, not the study of what God created and how it functions.

Atheism, materialism claims that God does not exist not science, science minds it's own business doing what it does, which is to study the creation of God...the natural world.

Gee, that doesn't beg the question in the least.

Atheism makes the false claim due to it's ideologies, not because science verifies this. They essentially use secular science as a means to justify their position, unlawfully, because that is going outside the domain of what science is for. Which is the systematic study of the material universe.


Science...in all it's glory should never be used against it's own study, to be used against it's own will is completely inappropriate, science and Theism are compatible.

So, basically, Theism should be given carte blanche to make sh!t up as it goes, because the tenements of science, that being repeat-ability, transparency, accountability to research, and independent/peer review are not things that should be applicable to God.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
janesix
Posts: 3,446
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7/4/2016 12:44:44 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Because God by definition cannot be known, God falls outside the realm of knowledge, or science.

Says who?

That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that our representations of God are not God.

God is The Ultimate Reality. It's absurd to think that you can prove this any more than you can prove that it is true that truth exists.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/4/2016 12:48:24 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/3/2016 8:12:00 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
science and Theism are compatible.

...If... what, EV?

They're not compatible unconditionally, so what are the conditions for compatibility?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/4/2016 12:57:57 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/4/2016 12:16:15 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:59:30 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
If I am a liar, I certainly am not aware of it.



Thats the problem.

Thus far, that is all you have been doing. Take this thread for example. You say God can never be known, then in the same post go on to describe that "God is...", as well as pointing to various dictionary examples in which to define Him in other posts.

I suppose you think "The Ultimate Reality" is knowable?
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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7/4/2016 1:01:49 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/4/2016 12:57:57 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/4/2016 12:16:15 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:59:30 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
If I am a liar, I certainly am not aware of it.



Thats the problem.

Thus far, that is all you have been doing. Take this thread for example. You say God can never be known, then in the same post go on to describe that "God is...", as well as pointing to various dictionary examples in which to define Him in other posts.

I suppose you think "The Ultimate Reality" is knowable?

-snerk- Yeah, I would deflect as well after that. What I think is wholly irrelevant to the obvious problems with your claims.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/4/2016 1:04:47 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/4/2016 12:44:44 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Because God by definition cannot be known, God falls outside the realm of knowledge, or science.

Says who?

Besides being intrinsic to how "God" is defined in the dictionary, there are many scriptures that either directly state this or imply it.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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7/4/2016 1:11:33 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/4/2016 1:04:47 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/4/2016 12:44:44 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/3/2016 8:42:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:

Because God by definition cannot be known,

but...

Besides being intrinsic to how "God" is defined in the dictionary...

Get your stories straight and get back to us, right now the look remarkably boomerang-ish.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/4/2016 1:12:14 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/4/2016 1:01:49 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/4/2016 12:57:57 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/4/2016 12:16:15 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/3/2016 9:59:30 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
If I am a liar, I certainly am not aware of it.



Thats the problem.

Thus far, that is all you have been doing. Take this thread for example. You say God can never be known, then in the same post go on to describe that "God is...", as well as pointing to various dictionary examples in which to define Him in other posts.

I suppose you think "The Ultimate Reality" is knowable?

-snerk- Yeah, I would deflect as well after that. What I think is wholly irrelevant to the obvious problems with your claims.

The problems are not with my claims. The problem is that I'm dealing with people who are in denial. It seems like the only argument anyone has against my position is to feign ignorance or question the authority of the dictionary.

Needless to say, I feel very secure with my position.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,