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Homosexuality is moral.

RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/7/2016 4:02:07 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 3:22:10 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
Homosexuality is as moral a way of life as heterosexuality.
Not to contest the proposition so much as to better understand it, Les...

What do you understand 'moral' to mean, and how can differences of opinion on this matter be reconciled independently of prejudice, preference, ignorance and tradition?

I have my own views on this, but am not seeking to advance them so much as understand what yours are.
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/7/2016 4:41:56 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 3:22:10 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
Homosexuality is as moral a way of life as heterosexuality.
I don't think homosexuality is moral... or immoral. Same goes for heterosexuality. I guess I am not sure what you mean by moral in this context.

I would classify both as amoral.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/7/2016 1:11:57 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 4:02:07 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/7/2016 3:22:10 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
Homosexuality is as moral a way of life as heterosexuality.
Not to contest the proposition so much as to better understand it, Les...

What do you understand 'moral' to mean, and how can differences of opinion on this matter be reconciled independently of prejudice, preference, ignorance and tradition?

I have my own views on this, but am not seeking to advance them so much as understand what yours are.

By "moral" I mean ethical, right, good, virtuous, beneficial. I'm guessing this discussion will so far reconcile differences of opinion as air them.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/7/2016 6:50:48 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 1:11:57 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/7/2016 4:02:07 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/7/2016 3:22:10 AM, Les_Rong wrote:
Homosexuality is as moral a way of life as heterosexuality.
Not to contest the proposition so much as to better understand it, Les...

What do you understand 'moral' to mean, and how can differences of opinion on this matter be reconciled independently of prejudice, preference, ignorance and tradition?

I have my own views on this, but am not seeking to advance them so much as understand what yours are.

By "moral" I mean ethical, right, good, virtuous, beneficial. I'm guessing this discussion will so far reconcile differences of opinion as air them.

That's what I think too, Les.

Another way of approaching it might be to ask:
What has morality to do with sexual activity anyway, unless avoidable harm is involved?

(I've asked that question before, without satisfactory response.)

The main difference between the proposition in your OP, and the question is that having declared the proposition in the affirmative, you now need to define morality and explain what it has to do with sexual activity, unless avoidable harm is involved. :)

I think this'll lead you down the path of having to demonstrate that homosexuality is mainly beneficial and generally harmless. For all I know it might be beneficial (it is in some other species.) I just don't myself know how to establish that among humans, since humans use sexual attraction, flirtation and gratification for a vast range of purposes -- some benign, some quite nefarious. :)
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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7/7/2016 9:35:26 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 6:50:48 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Another way of approaching it might be to ask:
What has morality to do with sexual activity anyway, unless avoidable harm is involved?

well, the main problem is just that one might put sexual activity as more important than God. Which I would assume would be all to easy to do.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/7/2016 10:25:36 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 9:35:26 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/7/2016 6:50:48 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Another way of approaching it might be to ask:
What has morality to do with sexual activity anyway, unless avoidable harm is involved?
well, the main problem is just that one might put sexual activity as more important than God. Which I would assume would be all to easy to do.

Because what good is theology if clergy can't patronise ordinary people with it, and make them feel ashamed?

So married couples of faith can be trusted not to put sex before God, and can have fellatio, cunnilingus and anal sex without anyone knowing or caring -- and many actually do. But homosexual couples of faith cannot be trusted not to put sex before God because they can't marry... because...

Uh... wait. What was the argument again?
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/7/2016 11:07:22 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 9:35:26 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 7/7/2016 6:50:48 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Another way of approaching it might be to ask:
What has morality to do with sexual activity anyway, unless avoidable harm is involved?

well, the main problem is just that one might put sexual activity as more important than God. Which I would assume would be all to easy to do.

I might go so far as to put any human activity as more important than god... at least the activity is real.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/8/2016 3:23:54 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
It is written, "I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

Homosexuality is a symptom of idolatry.

As it is written,

"..although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man"and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them."

In other words, when people address homosexuality as being the problem, they are not addressing the correct thing. Homosexuality is a symptom of idolatry.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/8/2016 3:36:53 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
What do people usually think of when they hear the word "fetish"? What does the word actually mean?

What do people usually think of when they hear the word "perverted"? What does the word actually mean?

Where do these words come from?

When the heart is impure, corruption follows.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/8/2016 7:18:14 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 3:36:53 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
What do people usually think of when they hear the word "fetish"? What does the word actually mean?

What do people usually think of when they hear the word "perverted"? What does the word actually mean?

Where do these words come from?


When the heart is impure, corruption follows.

Are you an age fetishist?