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How Did We Get Here?

LittleBallofHATE
Posts: 284
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7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.
I would agree with you, but then we'd BOTH be wrong.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
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7/8/2016 2:59:02 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

No, no. Please, elaborate.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/8/2016 3:14:06 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Genesis 1.

2 Timothy 3:2-4
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God,

That answers your question in two different ways:

1: How we actually got here, in existence, on this planet.

2: How we got to the state we are in.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/8/2016 3:47:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

The murder rate in western civilization currently is the lowest it has ever been in human history. If you equate murder with a country's belief in god, wouldn't that mean that western civilization believes in God more now than ever before? Please explain the logic.
LittleBallofHATE
Posts: 284
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7/8/2016 3:51:21 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 3:47:47 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

The murder rate in western civilization currently is the lowest it has ever been in human history. If you equate murder with a country's belief in god, wouldn't that mean that western civilization believes in God more now than ever before? Please explain the logic.

Do you have a credible source to back up that claim? Otherwise, I call BS.
I would agree with you, but then we'd BOTH be wrong.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/8/2016 4:01:18 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 3:51:21 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 7/8/2016 3:47:47 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

The murder rate in western civilization currently is the lowest it has ever been in human history. If you equate murder with a country's belief in god, wouldn't that mean that western civilization believes in God more now than ever before? Please explain the logic.

Do you have a credible source to back up that claim? Otherwise, I call BS.

I explained it in detail here - http://www.debate.org...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth.

LBoH, I wish to extend my commiseration and condolences to all American members who are suffering shock after shock, grief after grief at the serial atrocities of citizens slaughtering citizens. I personally think these events take time to digest, and shouldn't be used for knee-jerk political and cultural points.

However, people always do, so I'm offering the following for information and reflection, rather than debate. Hence I'm willing to answer questions, but not defend a line of argument on the following:

In Australia, we have less God, but very few firearms since our last civilian atrocity - the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, in which a lone man killed 25 people and wounded 23. [https://en.wikipedia.org...(Australia)] In Australia the massacre triggered a federally-funded civilian disarmament scheme, launched almost immediately by a conservative government led by a devout and principled Christian leader who was horrified by the event and acted on his moral convictions.

We've subsequently enjoyed twenty years of being a first world country in a terror-filled world without any mass shooting atrocities. Meanwhile, our rate of Christian self-identification is only around 60% (compared to around 70% in the US), while our religious nones are around 30% (compared to about 22% US) -- we're a less religious nation, but now a much safer one.

Could more God work? I don't know. I've never seen it help peace to have higher religiosity when people want to fight over which god to believe in. But perhaps it's sometimes better to act on one's Christian sensibilities rather than preaching them louder.

Can fewer guns work? You decide.
Looncall
Posts: 455
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7/8/2016 6:27:15 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 3:14:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1.

2 Timothy 3:2-4
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God,

That answers your question in two different ways:

1: How we actually got here, in existence, on this planet.

2: How we got to the state we are in.

This not a statement of human psychology, it's just part of the great scam wherein a state of morbid guilt is induced in people so that clergy can gain power over them.

You would do better to consult a modern psych text than a bunch of ancient campfire yarns and religious propaganda cobbled together by ignorant savages.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
bulproof
Posts: 25,260
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7/8/2016 6:54:53 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 6:27:15 PM, Looncall wrote:
At 7/8/2016 3:14:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1.

2 Timothy 3:2-4
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God,

That answers your question in two different ways:

1: How we actually got here, in existence, on this planet.

2: How we got to the state we are in.

This not a statement of human psychology, it's just part of the great scam wherein a state of morbid guilt is induced in people so that clergy can gain power over them.

You would do better to consult a modern psych text than a bunch of ancient campfire yarns and religious propaganda cobbled together by ignorant savages.
Huzzah
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
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7/8/2016 6:59:02 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth.

LBoH, I wish to extend my commiseration and condolences to all American members who are suffering shock after shock, grief after grief at the serial atrocities of citizens slaughtering citizens. I personally think these events take time to digest, and shouldn't be used for knee-jerk political and cultural points.

However, people always do, so I'm offering the following for information and reflection, rather than debate. Hence I'm willing to answer questions, but not defend a line of argument on the following:

In Australia, we have less God, but very few firearms since our last civilian atrocity - the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, in which a lone man killed 25 people and wounded 23. [https://en.wikipedia.org...(Australia)] In Australia the massacre triggered a federally-funded civilian disarmament scheme, launched almost immediately by a conservative government led by a devout and principled Christian leader who was horrified by the event and acted on his moral convictions.

We've subsequently enjoyed twenty years of being a first world country in a terror-filled world without any mass shooting atrocities. Meanwhile, our rate of Christian self-identification is only around 60% (compared to around 70% in the US), while our religious nones are around 30% (compared to about 22% US) -- we're a less religious nation, but now a much safer one.

Could more God work? I don't know. I've never seen it help peace to have higher religiosity when people want to fight over which god to believe in. But perhaps it's sometimes better to act on one's Christian sensibilities rather than preaching them louder.

Can fewer guns work? You decide.

Given the proliferation, and potential for guns to enter the US, and the propensity for criminals to do what criminals do, I would prefer not to be disarmed/unable to defend myself with equal means from a criminal element.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,260
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7/8/2016 7:01:20 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 6:59:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth.

LBoH, I wish to extend my commiseration and condolences to all American members who are suffering shock after shock, grief after grief at the serial atrocities of citizens slaughtering citizens. I personally think these events take time to digest, and shouldn't be used for knee-jerk political and cultural points.

However, people always do, so I'm offering the following for information and reflection, rather than debate. Hence I'm willing to answer questions, but not defend a line of argument on the following:

In Australia, we have less God, but very few firearms since our last civilian atrocity - the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, in which a lone man killed 25 people and wounded 23. [https://en.wikipedia.org...(Australia)] In Australia the massacre triggered a federally-funded civilian disarmament scheme, launched almost immediately by a conservative government led by a devout and principled Christian leader who was horrified by the event and acted on his moral convictions.

We've subsequently enjoyed twenty years of being a first world country in a terror-filled world without any mass shooting atrocities. Meanwhile, our rate of Christian self-identification is only around 60% (compared to around 70% in the US), while our religious nones are around 30% (compared to about 22% US) -- we're a less religious nation, but now a much safer one.

Could more God work? I don't know. I've never seen it help peace to have higher religiosity when people want to fight over which god to believe in. But perhaps it's sometimes better to act on one's Christian sensibilities rather than preaching them louder.

Can fewer guns work? You decide.


Given the proliferation, and potential for guns to enter the US, and the propensity for criminals to do what criminals do, I would prefer not to be disarmed/unable to defend myself with equal means from a criminal element.
That doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings, are you even sure it ever happens?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/8/2016 7:14:38 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 6:59:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Given the proliferation, and potential for guns to enter the US, and the propensity for criminals to do what criminals do, I would prefer not to be disarmed/unable to defend myself with equal means from a criminal element.

In Australia the job was definitely much easier, and lower risk.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/8/2016 7:49:10 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

In Europe which is far more godless than the USA the murder rate is exponentially lower. Less god = less murder.
LittleBallofHATE
Posts: 284
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7/8/2016 7:54:21 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:49:10 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

In Europe which is far more godless than the USA the murder rate is exponentially lower. Less god = less murder.

Morality is not measured solely by the number of murders. Look at how many abortions are performed. Look at all of the single parent families. Look at all of the sexual immorality. The list goes on. There are ten signs of a dying culture. Most cultures, throughout history, have met their demise with just a handful of these symptoms. America displays all ten of them. Our time is coming. It may not happen in my life time, but it will happen. Count on it.
I would agree with you, but then we'd BOTH be wrong.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/8/2016 7:55:28 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:14:38 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/8/2016 6:59:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Given the proliferation, and potential for guns to enter the US, and the propensity for criminals to do what criminals do, I would prefer not to be disarmed/unable to defend myself with equal means from a criminal element.
In Australia the job was definitely much easier, and lower risk.

Some follow-up info, FJ, pointing out jurisdictional differences rather than arguing for a particular policy.

Australia's a big, sparsely populated space with a lot of people living in regions who treat firearms as agricultural tools. Pretty much anyone living in the country has fired shotguns and rifles. In the cities there are firearm enthusiast clubs too and a lot more pistols, and they still exist today. [Mrs D and I both grew up in the city, and we've fired a range of handgun calibres, though never wanted to own one. :)]

But our jurisdiction does lack two things: any constitutional reference to firearm possession, and large domestic firearm manufacturing and retail sectors and lobbyists trading on intergenerational fears fomented in a past Civil War.

So in our jurisdiction, a firearm buyback scheme was instituted within the same year as the Port Arthur massacre. There was complaint, but it was drowned in public sentiment. The program lasted for about a year, and took around 660,000 firearms out of private hands (from a population of around 23 million.) The firearms were destroyed. [http://cdn.newsapi.com.au...] Follow-up legislation in 2003 added some restriction on target pistols with another buyback scheme (because Australia's constitution requires it.) Australia had to temporarily increase taxes to pay for the 1996 buyback. I suspect we absorbed the smaller buyback in the 2003 budget.

There was certainly ideological opposition, but in our country at least, religious conservatism and firearm libertarianism haven't formed an inseparable political identity. :) I can't imagine any good outcome arising from that particular alliance. :(

But more broadly, Australia has had a range of anti-firearm measures (like automatically siezing firearms in domestic violence cases.) Since 1988, Australia's household firearm ownership has plummeted by about 75%, and our gunshot deaths have been trending down since the 1970s. Nevertheless, we're still importing around 104,000 firearms per year -- mostly single-shot weapons. So it seems to be that the few households with guns are collecting (or stockpiling -- whichever. :p) [https://theconversation.com...]

I have no idea what it would take to disarm the US sensibly, FJ -- not how much money it'd take, or what sorts of policies it'd take, or how to generate and sustain the political will, or keep civilians safe while it occurred. I haven't the first clue, except to point out something that I thought was interesting in Australia and might be applicable to the US: it was a conservative government that did it here, with a Christian Prime Minister leading them.

But if there were a choice between more God or less guns... well, we know what high religiosity looks like in a heavily-armed, fractious civilian population.

It's called Afghanistan. :p
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/8/2016 7:56:10 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:54:21 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:49:10 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

In Europe which is far more godless than the USA the murder rate is exponentially lower. Less god = less murder.

Morality is not measured solely by the number of murders. Look at how many abortions are performed. Look at all of the single parent families. Look at all of the sexual immorality. The list goes on. There are ten signs of a dying culture. Most cultures, throughout history, have met their demise with just a handful of these symptoms. America displays all ten of them. Our time is coming. It may not happen in my life time, but it will happen. Count on it.

And one day the sun will go super-nova and consume the Earth.
LittleBallofHATE
Posts: 284
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7/8/2016 8:06:36 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:56:10 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:54:21 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:49:10 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

In Europe which is far more godless than the USA the murder rate is exponentially lower. Less god = less murder.

Morality is not measured solely by the number of murders. Look at how many abortions are performed. Look at all of the single parent families. Look at all of the sexual immorality. The list goes on. There are ten signs of a dying culture. Most cultures, throughout history, have met their demise with just a handful of these symptoms. America displays all ten of them. Our time is coming. It may not happen in my life time, but it will happen. Count on it.

And one day the sun will go super-nova and consume the Earth.

Gee. I guess you showed me. NOT! Hey. I hear that your second last brain cell died, and the remaining one is thrilled to be alone. How's that working out for you?
I would agree with you, but then we'd BOTH be wrong.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
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7/8/2016 8:06:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:01:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/8/2016 6:59:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth.

LBoH, I wish to extend my commiseration and condolences to all American members who are suffering shock after shock, grief after grief at the serial atrocities of citizens slaughtering citizens. I personally think these events take time to digest, and shouldn't be used for knee-jerk political and cultural points.

However, people always do, so I'm offering the following for information and reflection, rather than debate. Hence I'm willing to answer questions, but not defend a line of argument on the following:

In Australia, we have less God, but very few firearms since our last civilian atrocity - the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, in which a lone man killed 25 people and wounded 23. [https://en.wikipedia.org...(Australia)] In Australia the massacre triggered a federally-funded civilian disarmament scheme, launched almost immediately by a conservative government led by a devout and principled Christian leader who was horrified by the event and acted on his moral convictions.

We've subsequently enjoyed twenty years of being a first world country in a terror-filled world without any mass shooting atrocities. Meanwhile, our rate of Christian self-identification is only around 60% (compared to around 70% in the US), while our religious nones are around 30% (compared to about 22% US) -- we're a less religious nation, but now a much safer one.

Could more God work? I don't know. I've never seen it help peace to have higher religiosity when people want to fight over which god to believe in. But perhaps it's sometimes better to act on one's Christian sensibilities rather than preaching them louder.

Can fewer guns work? You decide.


Given the proliferation, and potential for guns to enter the US, and the propensity for criminals to do what criminals do, I would prefer not to be disarmed/unable to defend myself with equal means from a criminal element.

That doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings, are you even sure it ever happens?

What doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings? Armed criminality?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,260
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7/8/2016 8:13:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:06:55 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:01:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/8/2016 6:59:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth.

LBoH, I wish to extend my commiseration and condolences to all American members who are suffering shock after shock, grief after grief at the serial atrocities of citizens slaughtering citizens. I personally think these events take time to digest, and shouldn't be used for knee-jerk political and cultural points.

However, people always do, so I'm offering the following for information and reflection, rather than debate. Hence I'm willing to answer questions, but not defend a line of argument on the following:

In Australia, we have less God, but very few firearms since our last civilian atrocity - the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, in which a lone man killed 25 people and wounded 23. [https://en.wikipedia.org...(Australia)] In Australia the massacre triggered a federally-funded civilian disarmament scheme, launched almost immediately by a conservative government led by a devout and principled Christian leader who was horrified by the event and acted on his moral convictions.

We've subsequently enjoyed twenty years of being a first world country in a terror-filled world without any mass shooting atrocities. Meanwhile, our rate of Christian self-identification is only around 60% (compared to around 70% in the US), while our religious nones are around 30% (compared to about 22% US) -- we're a less religious nation, but now a much safer one.

Could more God work? I don't know. I've never seen it help peace to have higher religiosity when people want to fight over which god to believe in. But perhaps it's sometimes better to act on one's Christian sensibilities rather than preaching them louder.

Can fewer guns work? You decide.


Given the proliferation, and potential for guns to enter the US, and the propensity for criminals to do what criminals do, I would prefer not to be disarmed/unable to defend myself with equal means from a criminal element.


That doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings, are you even sure it ever happens?


What doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings? Armed criminality?
I would expect better than such disingenuousness from you FJ
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/8/2016 8:21:36 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:06:36 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:56:10 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:54:21 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:49:10 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

In Europe which is far more godless than the USA the murder rate is exponentially lower. Less god = less murder.

Morality is not measured solely by the number of murders. Look at how many abortions are performed. Look at all of the single parent families. Look at all of the sexual immorality. The list goes on. There are ten signs of a dying culture. Most cultures, throughout history, have met their demise with just a handful of these symptoms. America displays all ten of them. Our time is coming. It may not happen in my life time, but it will happen. Count on it.

And one day the sun will go super-nova and consume the Earth.

Gee. I guess you showed me. NOT! Hey. I hear that your second last brain cell died, and the remaining one is thrilled to be alone. How's that working out for you?

I doubt if I, or anyone else could show you anything, as you appear to lack the capacity to understand even basic ideas.
Are you still hearing those voices in your head?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
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7/8/2016 8:40:22 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:13:37 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:06:55 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:01:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/8/2016 6:59:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth.

LBoH, I wish to extend my commiseration and condolences to all American members who are suffering shock after shock, grief after grief at the serial atrocities of citizens slaughtering citizens. I personally think these events take time to digest, and shouldn't be used for knee-jerk political and cultural points.

However, people always do, so I'm offering the following for information and reflection, rather than debate. Hence I'm willing to answer questions, but not defend a line of argument on the following:

In Australia, we have less God, but very few firearms since our last civilian atrocity - the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, in which a lone man killed 25 people and wounded 23. [https://en.wikipedia.org...(Australia)] In Australia the massacre triggered a federally-funded civilian disarmament scheme, launched almost immediately by a conservative government led by a devout and principled Christian leader who was horrified by the event and acted on his moral convictions.

We've subsequently enjoyed twenty years of being a first world country in a terror-filled world without any mass shooting atrocities. Meanwhile, our rate of Christian self-identification is only around 60% (compared to around 70% in the US), while our religious nones are around 30% (compared to about 22% US) -- we're a less religious nation, but now a much safer one.

Could more God work? I don't know. I've never seen it help peace to have higher religiosity when people want to fight over which god to believe in. But perhaps it's sometimes better to act on one's Christian sensibilities rather than preaching them louder.

Can fewer guns work? You decide.


Given the proliferation, and potential for guns to enter the US, and the propensity for criminals to do what criminals do, I would prefer not to be disarmed/unable to defend myself with equal means from a criminal element.


That doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings, are you even sure it ever happens?


What doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings? Armed criminality?
I would expect better than such disingenuousness from you FJ

Dude, I genuinely have no idea of what you are referring to, I listed like 4 subjects in my posit, it was a lot to cover. When you say "That doesn't", what are you referring to?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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bulproof
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7/8/2016 8:53:24 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:40:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:13:37 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:06:55 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:01:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/8/2016 6:59:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth.

LBoH, I wish to extend my commiseration and condolences to all American members who are suffering shock after shock, grief after grief at the serial atrocities of citizens slaughtering citizens. I personally think these events take time to digest, and shouldn't be used for knee-jerk political and cultural points.

However, people always do, so I'm offering the following for information and reflection, rather than debate. Hence I'm willing to answer questions, but not defend a line of argument on the following:

In Australia, we have less God, but very few firearms since our last civilian atrocity - the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, in which a lone man killed 25 people and wounded 23. [https://en.wikipedia.org...(Australia)] In Australia the massacre triggered a federally-funded civilian disarmament scheme, launched almost immediately by a conservative government led by a devout and principled Christian leader who was horrified by the event and acted on his moral convictions.

We've subsequently enjoyed twenty years of being a first world country in a terror-filled world without any mass shooting atrocities. Meanwhile, our rate of Christian self-identification is only around 60% (compared to around 70% in the US), while our religious nones are around 30% (compared to about 22% US) -- we're a less religious nation, but now a much safer one.

Could more God work? I don't know. I've never seen it help peace to have higher religiosity when people want to fight over which god to believe in. But perhaps it's sometimes better to act on one's Christian sensibilities rather than preaching them louder.

Can fewer guns work? You decide.


Given the proliferation, and potential for guns to enter the US, and the propensity for criminals to do what criminals do, I would prefer not to be disarmed/unable to defend myself with equal means from a criminal element.


That doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings, are you even sure it ever happens?


What doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings? Armed criminality?
I would expect better than such disingenuousness from you FJ


Dude, I genuinely have no idea of what you are referring to, I listed like 4 subjects in my posit, it was a lot to cover. When you say "That doesn't", what are you referring to?
The unable to defend myself bit and I don't mean you personally.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
FaustianJustice
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7/8/2016 9:05:32 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:53:24 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:40:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:13:37 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:06:55 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:01:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/8/2016 6:59:02 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth.

LBoH, I wish to extend my commiseration and condolences to all American members who are suffering shock after shock, grief after grief at the serial atrocities of citizens slaughtering citizens. I personally think these events take time to digest, and shouldn't be used for knee-jerk political and cultural points.

However, people always do, so I'm offering the following for information and reflection, rather than debate. Hence I'm willing to answer questions, but not defend a line of argument on the following:

In Australia, we have less God, but very few firearms since our last civilian atrocity - the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, in which a lone man killed 25 people and wounded 23. [https://en.wikipedia.org...(Australia)] In Australia the massacre triggered a federally-funded civilian disarmament scheme, launched almost immediately by a conservative government led by a devout and principled Christian leader who was horrified by the event and acted on his moral convictions.

We've subsequently enjoyed twenty years of being a first world country in a terror-filled world without any mass shooting atrocities. Meanwhile, our rate of Christian self-identification is only around 60% (compared to around 70% in the US), while our religious nones are around 30% (compared to about 22% US) -- we're a less religious nation, but now a much safer one.

Could more God work? I don't know. I've never seen it help peace to have higher religiosity when people want to fight over which god to believe in. But perhaps it's sometimes better to act on one's Christian sensibilities rather than preaching them louder.

Can fewer guns work? You decide.


Given the proliferation, and potential for guns to enter the US, and the propensity for criminals to do what criminals do, I would prefer not to be disarmed/unable to defend myself with equal means from a criminal element.


That doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings, are you even sure it ever happens?


What doesn't seem to happen nearly as frequently as mass shootings? Armed criminality?
I would expect better than such disingenuousness from you FJ


Dude, I genuinely have no idea of what you are referring to, I listed like 4 subjects in my posit, it was a lot to cover. When you say "That doesn't", what are you referring to?
The unable to defend myself bit and I don't mean you personally.

The unable to defend myself aspect comes from any variety of legal and corporate request that the individuals there be disarmed. The Pulse nightclub shooting happened at a bar, where legally concealed carry is not allowed to occur. The Aurora theater shooter was in a location where the chain requests there be no weapons. Yes, I am confident that occurs, and yes, I am confident that those with without firearms are at a marked disadvantage to a criminal element that does. As cliche as it is, good guys with guns, yadda yadda. There are scads more "good guys" in the world than bad guys, but bad guys prey on the indulgence of the good to commit crime. They look for places that invite confusion, disarmed populaces, the element of surprise, distracted victims, etc. Its why the number of shootings at police stations and gun shows is re-dogulously lower than places like schools or other public venues: its assumed the populace is armed, and therefore makes for a bad target.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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distraff
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7/8/2016 9:20:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

Funny thing is that Europe has its own problems, just look at Brexit, its Islamic Immigrant controversy, the Greek Debt Crisis and more. They are very sinful from a Christian viewpoint and half of them are not even religious. People go topless in beaches all the time, drugs are legal in Netherlands.

Yet for some reason they have a homocide rate that is a fraction of ours and almost no mass shootings.

The solution to these gun problems is to not allow military grade weapons in the legal gun market, not allow people on the no fly list to purchase guns, enforce universal background checks not only in gun shops but also in gun shows, and online. We should also ensure that guns do not get into the hands of the mentally disabled and violent criminals.
LittleBallofHATE
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7/8/2016 9:26:13 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:20:34 PM, distraff wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

Funny thing is that Europe has its own problems, just look at Brexit, its Islamic Immigrant controversy, the Greek Debt Crisis and more. They are very sinful from a Christian viewpoint and half of them are not even religious. People go topless in beaches all the time, drugs are legal in Netherlands.

Yet for some reason they have a homocide rate that is a fraction of ours and almost no mass shootings.

The solution to these gun problems is to not allow military grade weapons in the legal gun market, not allow people on the no fly list to purchase guns, enforce universal background checks not only in gun shops but also in gun shows, and online. We should also ensure that guns do not get into the hands of the mentally disabled and violent criminals.

There is an easy way to deal with gun violence. Any crime committed with a fire arm gets the perp an automatic death penalty. At the very least, it will eliminate repeat offenders, responsible for the majority of violent crime.
I would agree with you, but then we'd BOTH be wrong.
distraff
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7/8/2016 9:37:32 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:26:13 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:20:34 PM, distraff wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

Funny thing is that Europe has its own problems, just look at Brexit, its Islamic Immigrant controversy, the Greek Debt Crisis and more. They are very sinful from a Christian viewpoint and half of them are not even religious. People go topless in beaches all the time, drugs are legal in Netherlands.

Yet for some reason they have a homocide rate that is a fraction of ours and almost no mass shootings.

The solution to these gun problems is to not allow military grade weapons in the legal gun market, not allow people on the no fly list to purchase guns, enforce universal background checks not only in gun shops but also in gun shows, and online. We should also ensure that guns do not get into the hands of the mentally disabled and violent criminals.

There is an easy way to deal with gun violence. Any crime committed with a fire arm gets the perp an automatic death penalty. At the very least, it will eliminate repeat offenders, responsible for the majority of violent crime.

I believe that the punishment should reflect the crime. I only believe in the death penalty in the case of murder or a really heinous crime.

Trying to solve social problems or get around common sense gun laws with unjust laws is wrong. Europe doesn't have the gun problems we do and they don't have a death penalty.
LittleBallofHATE
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7/8/2016 10:12:52 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:37:32 PM, distraff wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:26:13 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:20:34 PM, distraff wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

Funny thing is that Europe has its own problems, just look at Brexit, its Islamic Immigrant controversy, the Greek Debt Crisis and more. They are very sinful from a Christian viewpoint and half of them are not even religious. People go topless in beaches all the time, drugs are legal in Netherlands.

Yet for some reason they have a homocide rate that is a fraction of ours and almost no mass shootings.

The solution to these gun problems is to not allow military grade weapons in the legal gun market, not allow people on the no fly list to purchase guns, enforce universal background checks not only in gun shops but also in gun shows, and online. We should also ensure that guns do not get into the hands of the mentally disabled and violent criminals.

There is an easy way to deal with gun violence. Any crime committed with a fire arm gets the perp an automatic death penalty. At the very least, it will eliminate repeat offenders, responsible for the majority of violent crime.

I believe that the punishment should reflect the crime. I only believe in the death penalty in the case of murder or a really heinous crime.

Trying to solve social problems or get around common sense gun laws with unjust laws is wrong. Europe doesn't have the gun problems we do and they don't have a death penalty.

If the law was applied equally and fairly, it would not be unjust. Using a gun in the commission of a crime is a serious offense, even if it is not fired. There is one country that shoots drunk drivers. I think it's Iran. Pretty harsh, but there are almost no drunk drivers there. In this case, I believe that the ends would justify the means.
I would agree with you, but then we'd BOTH be wrong.
distraff
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7/8/2016 11:57:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 10:12:52 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:37:32 PM, distraff wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:26:13 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:20:34 PM, distraff wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

Funny thing is that Europe has its own problems, just look at Brexit, its Islamic Immigrant controversy, the Greek Debt Crisis and more. They are very sinful from a Christian viewpoint and half of them are not even religious. People go topless in beaches all the time, drugs are legal in Netherlands.

Yet for some reason they have a homocide rate that is a fraction of ours and almost no mass shootings.

The solution to these gun problems is to not allow military grade weapons in the legal gun market, not allow people on the no fly list to purchase guns, enforce universal background checks not only in gun shops but also in gun shows, and online. We should also ensure that guns do not get into the hands of the mentally disabled and violent criminals.

There is an easy way to deal with gun violence. Any crime committed with a fire arm gets the perp an automatic death penalty. At the very least, it will eliminate repeat offenders, responsible for the majority of violent crime.

I believe that the punishment should reflect the crime. I only believe in the death penalty in the case of murder or a really heinous crime.

Trying to solve social problems or get around common sense gun laws with unjust laws is wrong. Europe doesn't have the gun problems we do and they don't have a death penalty.

If the law was applied equally and fairly, it would not be unjust.

Not true. If the death penalty was applied to all crimes including speeding or making a mistake on your takes it doesn't matter how equally or fairly you applied the law it is still unjust. It must reflect the severity of the crime.

Punishment has real human impacts and does cause some human misery. We only apply it because it is what the criminal deserves and will do more good than harm. A person who draws a weapon does not deserve to die, only people who do heinous things deserve to die. Think of the impact on their family. Maybe he is young and troubled. Maybe there was a heated argument.

What happens in the case of wrongful conviction? If the law reflects the severity of the crime like jail time for armed assault wrongful conviction is a sad thing but if people got put to death for drawing a weapon a wrongful conviction is a serious injustice and will result in major lawsuits from the family.

Also killing people who draw a gun will itself result in far more death than currently in the form of executions and does a lot of harm. All such a law will do will encourage criminals to pull out knives instead which is not quite as bad but does not completely fix the problem and is not worth the harm the law does.

Using a gun in the commission of a crime is a serious offense, even if it is not fired.

It is serious, that is why they get serious jail time. However it is not so serious to deserve death. We are talking about killing people here. Killing people should never be done lightly. It should only be done for the worst crimes.

There is one country that shoots drunk drivers. I think it's Iran. Pretty harsh, but there are almost no drunk drivers there. In this case, I believe that the ends would justify the means.

Iran executes 1,000 people a year which is the highest per capita execution rate in the world and most of these executions are for non-violent offenses such as drug use and drunk driving. This tough Iranian policy is because of their theocratic government that bans such substances because it violates shariah law. Iran is the target of many human rights groups because of this policy and many more such as Amnesty International, and also the UN.

If this US killed at the same rate for its population we would be killing 4,000 people a year for mostly non-violent offenses. This is pretty significant as there are 14,000 homicides per year and would significantly increase the number of people killed. In 2015 we killed 28 people and since 1976, 40 years, we have killed 1,400 people.

According to the World Freedom Index which looks at the level of freedom citizens have Iran ranks 169th out of 180 which places it alongside countries like China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, and Libya.

I really hope you aren't suggesting that we emulate such a terrible country. While we are at it why don't we just institute a death penalty of everything to prevent all crime? Such a penalty would lead to thousands of executions per year and wo
uncung
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7/9/2016 5:48:40 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.

you must be a Hindu.
LittleBallofHATE
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7/9/2016 6:43:54 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 5:48:40 AM, uncung wrote:
At 7/8/2016 2:54:32 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
You've probably heard this quote on the news, regarding the attack in Dallas. I know exactly how we got here. It is because our country has turned away from God. I could elaborate, but it is obvious to those able to discern the truth. For the rest of you...well, let's just say that you are hopeless, as well as a part of the problem. God is the only one who can heal our land. But we, as a nation, must repent and ask Him to forgive us. Just my two cents.



you must be a Hindu.

And you must be mistaken.
I would agree with you, but then we'd BOTH be wrong.