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Moral Theology/Philosophy.

GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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12/21/2010 5:25:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Not any theology, instead some of mine which came to mind.

Lately I have been vain and prideful of myself, giving into sin and what not. My faith ran dry and therefore my passion turned to smoke.

However out of that came a spring of thoughts. I have came to realise that I was on a train heading off it's rails. Most people, people who are non Christian will seek to be a better person, a more moral person when they have come to the stage where they have realised that there life is going off course in moral terms. They will look at their past actions and see their ethical health deteriorating. They will then seek to redeem themselves through moral actions, deeds and goals. They will even use philosophy to make themselves feel better.

However, that is not the whole picture, to become a better person through moral regain goes so far. If the person succeeds in positively increasing his or her moral performance, what once was acceptable would become unacceptable, but the more stable you become the harder it becomes to increase your ethical health. In reaction to this, the majority of people settle for somewhere in the middle. For example, if you ask another if they are a good person, they will tend to say that they are, but really going by earthly standards they are neither an angel nor a demon. They wouldn't murder, then again they wouldn't sacrifice they home for a homeless person.

In turn morality becomes obsessive, the harder it becomes to become more of a moral person, the smaller the moral problem becomes. Getting drunk on occasion is considered acceptable in our society, and therefore it isn't considered a big moral problem.

For me, this way of moral living is totally godless, if it be by it's own. Of course in Christianity living lawfully is good. But it doesn't please God and therefore it is ultimately worthless. Whereas most people after pursuing the road of pride and vanity, they would morally regain themselves, I due to what Jesus Christ did or rather what God did to Jesus Christ, would return to being faithful. Being faithful completes this over lapping of moral regain by placing your self upon another person, in which He Jesus Christ, was perfect. I found that I was pushing away faith in turn for a moral standard, a earthly standard by which many go by. Simply it cannot work, by relating yourself to this earthly standard and living by it, it is certain that you will compete against one another. And from that, jealously, violence, greed, etc are formed. You will compete against each other because it is a case of decreasing or increasing the moral standard. I am not saying murder will become acceptable, but jail sentences and court justice will either be increased or reduced. By which, it could be seen that crime and general immorality will be more 'outgoing'.

My claims can be backed up by history, looking back there was strong criminal justice in the courts, unjust punishments were committed, such as torcher. But now, in the modern world, the courts have scrapped harsh punishment, and instead unrighteousness has linked more frequently out of the courts and into our streets.

But faith sums up this problem, restraining it under the authority of grace. It is this, we are simply too corrupt for moral regain, not even that, but moral regain cannot work. And thus, I when I was on the track of immorality and faithlessness, did not want to regain my moral control, but I wanted more of my faith. Since in a lack of faith comes pride. To do it yourself, but given faith, nothing is in your favour.
Johnicle
Posts: 888
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12/21/2010 5:58:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/21/2010 5:25:44 PM, GodSands wrote:
Not any theology, instead some of mine which came to mind.

Lately I have been vain and prideful of myself, giving into sin and what not. My faith ran dry and therefore my passion turned to smoke.

However out of that came a spring of thoughts. I have came to realize that I was on a train heading off it's rails. Most people, people who are non Christian will seek to be a better person, a more moral person when they have come to the stage where they have realized that their life is going off course in moral terms. They will look at their past actions and see their ethical health deteriorating. They will then seek to redeem themselves through moral actions, deeds and goals. They will even use philosophy to make themselves feel better.

However, that is not the whole picture, to become a better person through moral regain goes so far. If the person succeeds in positively increasing his or her moral performance, what once was acceptable would become unacceptable, but the more stable you become the harder it becomes to increase your ethical health. In reaction to this, the majority of people settle for somewhere in the middle. For example, if you ask another if they are a good person, they will tend to say that they are, but really going by earthly standards they are neither an angel nor a demon. They wouldn't murder, then again they wouldn't sacrifice their home for a homeless person.

In turn morality becomes obsessive, the harder it becomes to become more of a moral person, the smaller the moral problem becomes. Getting drunk on occasion is considered acceptable in our society, and therefore it isn't considered a big moral problem.

For me, this way of moral living is totally godless, if it be by it's own. Of course in Christianity living lawfully is good. But it doesn't please God and therefore it is ultimately worthless. Whereas most people after pursuing the road of pride and vanity, they would morally regain themselves, I due to what Jesus Christ did or rather what God did to Jesus Christ, would return to being faithful. Being faithful completes this overlapping of moral regain by placing yourself upon another person, in which He Jesus Christ, was perfect. I found that I was pushing away faith in turn for a moral standard, a earthly standard by which many go by. Simply it cannot work, by relating yourself to this earthly standard and living by it, it is certain that you will compete against one another. And from that, jealously, violence, greed, etc are formed. You will compete against each other because it is a case of decreasing or increasing the moral standard. I am not saying murder will become acceptable, but jail sentences and court justice will either be increased or reduced. By which, it could be seen that crime and general immorality will be more 'outgoing'.

My claims can be backed up by history, looking back there was strong criminal justice in the courts, unjust punishments were committed, such as torture. But now, in the modern world, the courts have scrapped harsh punishment, and instead unrighteousness has linked more frequently out of the courts and into our streets.

But faith sums up this problem, restraining it under the authority of grace. It is this, we are simply too corrupt for moral regain, not even that, but moral regain cannot work. And thus, I when I was on the track of immorality and faithlessness, did not want to regain my moral control, but I wanted more of my faith. Since in a lack of faith comes pride. To do it yourself, but given faith, nothing is in your favor.

---I fixed your mistakes :D

Problems:

1) There are numerous faiths... Meaning that only one objective morality could possibly apply to your analysis. For example, eating Angus beef to some 'faiths' is an atrocity. Another example is women rights. Yeah those are pretty various.

2) Essentially you are claiming an absolute morality. Correct me if I'm wrong on that assumption, but that is absolutely false if you believe it to be correct.

3) If we WERE to apply your absolute morality to our country, we would be left with a bunch of people who have given up every belonging that they have and we would only be left praying in the street rather than working hard to provide ourselves with a proper quality of life.

4) Subjective morality is the only way to conduct ourselves. A good example of this is the Eskimos. You see, they used to practice infanticide... Unforgivable? Many would think so and your objective morality would for sure. However, if they did not do this unfortunate act, then they would have another mouth to feed and would essentially be unable to provide for themselves. Therefore they make the choice between sacrificing their infants, or sacrificing the entire tribe. Horrible... but justified.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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12/21/2010 5:59:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/21/2010 5:25:44 PM, GodSands wrote:
Not any theology, instead some of mine which came to mind.

Lately I have been vain and prideful of myself, giving into sin and what not. My faith ran dry and therefore my passion turned to smoke.

However out of that came a spring of thoughts. I have came to realise that I was on a train heading off it's rails. Most people, people who are non Christian will seek to be a better person, a more moral person when they have come to the stage where they have realised that there life is going off course in moral terms. They will look at their past actions and see their ethical health deteriorating. They will then seek to redeem themselves through moral actions, deeds and goals. They will even use philosophy to make themselves feel better.

However, that is not the whole picture, to become a better person through moral regain goes so far. If the person succeeds in positively increasing his or her moral performance, what once was acceptable would become unacceptable, but the more stable you become the harder it becomes to increase your ethical health. In reaction to this, the majority of people settle for somewhere in the middle. For example, if you ask another if they are a good person, they will tend to say that they are, but really going by earthly standards they are neither an angel nor a demon. They wouldn't murder, then again they wouldn't sacrifice they home for a homeless person.

In turn morality becomes obsessive, the harder it becomes to become more of a moral person, the smaller the moral problem becomes. Getting drunk on occasion is considered acceptable in our society, and therefore it isn't considered a big moral problem.

For me, this way of moral living is totally godless, if it be by it's own. Of course in Christianity living lawfully is good. But it doesn't please God and therefore it is ultimately worthless. Whereas most people after pursuing the road of pride and vanity, they would morally regain themselves, I due to what Jesus Christ did or rather what God did to Jesus Christ, would return to being faithful. Being faithful completes this over lapping of moral regain by placing your self upon another person, in which He Jesus Christ, was perfect. I found that I was pushing away faith in turn for a moral standard, a earthly standard by which many go by. Simply it cannot work, by relating yourself to this earthly standard and living by it, it is certain that you will compete against one another. And from that, jealously, violence, greed, etc are formed. You will compete against each other because it is a case of decreasing or increasing the moral standard. I am not saying murder will become acceptable, but jail sentences and court justice will either be increased or reduced. By which, it could be seen that crime and general immorality will be more 'outgoing'.

My claims can be backed up by history, looking back there was strong criminal justice in the courts, unjust punishments were committed, such as torcher. But now, in the modern world, the courts have scrapped harsh punishment, and instead unrighteousness has linked more frequently out of the courts and into our streets.

But faith sums up this problem, restraining it under the authority of grace. It is this, we are simply too corrupt for moral regain, not even that, but moral regain cannot work. And thus, I when I was on the track of immorality and faithlessness, did not want to regain my moral control, but I wanted more of my faith. Since in a lack of faith comes pride. To do it yourself, but given faith, nothing is in your favour.

Most of it was Tl;DR.

Can someone give me a condensed version instead of the preachy bull long winded version?
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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12/21/2010 6:04:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
: At 12/21/2010 5:58:24 PM, Johnicle wrote:
At 12/21/2010 5:25:44 PM, GodSands wrote:
Not any theology, instead some of mine which came to mind.

Lately I have been vain and prideful of myself, giving into sin and what not. My faith ran dry and therefore my passion turned to smoke.

However out of that came a spring of thoughts. I have came to realize that I was on a train heading off it's rails. Most people, people who are non Christian will seek to be a better person, a more moral person when they have come to the stage where they have realized that their life is going off course in moral terms. They will look at their past actions and see their ethical health deteriorating. They will then seek to redeem themselves through moral actions, deeds and goals. They will even use philosophy to make themselves feel better.

However, that is not the whole picture, to become a better person through moral regain goes so far. If the person succeeds in positively increasing his or her moral performance, what once was acceptable would become unacceptable, but the more stable you become the harder it becomes to increase your ethical health. In reaction to this, the majority of people settle for somewhere in the middle. For example, if you ask another if they are a good person, they will tend to say that they are, but really going by earthly standards they are neither an angel nor a demon. They wouldn't murder, then again they wouldn't sacrifice their home for a homeless person.

In turn morality becomes obsessive, the harder it becomes to become more of a moral person, the smaller the moral problem becomes. Getting drunk on occasion is considered acceptable in our society, and therefore it isn't considered a big moral problem.

For me, this way of moral living is totally godless, if it be by it's own. Of course in Christianity living lawfully is good. But it doesn't please God and therefore it is ultimately worthless. Whereas most people after pursuing the road of pride and vanity, they would morally regain themselves, I due to what Jesus Christ did or rather what God did to Jesus Christ, would return to being faithful. Being faithful completes this overlapping of moral regain by placing yourself upon another person, in which He Jesus Christ, was perfect. I found that I was pushing away faith in turn for a moral standard, a earthly standard by which many go by. Simply it cannot work, by relating yourself to this earthly standard and living by it, it is certain that you will compete against one another. And from that, jealously, violence, greed, etc are formed. You will compete against each other because it is a case of decreasing or increasing the moral standard. I am not saying murder will become acceptable, but jail sentences and court justice will either be increased or reduced. By which, it could be seen that crime and general immorality will be more 'outgoing'.

My claims can be backed up by history, looking back there was strong criminal justice in the courts, unjust punishments were committed, such as torture. But now, in the modern world, the courts have scrapped harsh punishment, and instead unrighteousness has linked more frequently out of the courts and into our streets.

But faith sums up this problem, restraining it under the authority of grace. It is this, we are simply too corrupt for moral regain, not even that, but moral regain cannot work. And thus, I when I was on the track of immorality and faithlessness, did not want to regain my moral control, but I wanted more of my faith. Since in a lack of faith comes pride. To do it yourself, but given faith, nothing is in your favor.

---I fixed your mistakes :D

Problems:

1) There are numerous faiths... Meaning that only one objective morality could possibly apply to your analysis. For example, eating Angus beef to some 'faiths' is an atrocity. Another example is women rights. Yeah those are pretty various.

2) Essentially you are claiming an absolute morality. Correct me if I'm wrong on that assumption, but that is absolutely false if you believe it to be correct.

3) If we WERE to apply your absolute morality to our country, we would be left with a bunch of people who have given up every belonging that they have and we would only be left praying in the street rather than working hard to provide ourselves with a proper quality of life.

4) Subjective morality is the only way to conduct ourselves. A good example of this is the Eskimos. You see, they used to practice infanticide... Unforgivable? Many would think so and your objective morality would for sure. However, if they did not do this unfortunate act, then they would have another mouth to feed and would essentially be unable to provide for themselves. Therefore they make the choice between sacrificing their infants, or sacrificing the entire tribe. Horrible... but justified
.

Thanks dude for correcting some grammar mistakes, considering I am British I don't go by the American standard of spelling. Also your aren't going by a standard of what is right, since according to yourself, no objective truth exists. Everything is subjective, yet your are sure to correct me. Isn't that being self contradictory.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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12/21/2010 6:07:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
: At 12/21/2010 5:59:34 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 12/21/2010 5:25:44 PM, GodSands wrote:
Not any theology, instead some of mine which came to mind.

Lately I have been vain and prideful of myself, giving into sin and what not. My faith ran dry and therefore my passion turned to smoke.

However out of that came a spring of thoughts. I have came to realise that I was on a train heading off it's rails. Most people, people who are non Christian will seek to be a better person, a more moral person when they have come to the stage where they have realised that there life is going off course in moral terms. They will look at their past actions and see their ethical health deteriorating. They will then seek to redeem themselves through moral actions, deeds and goals. They will even use philosophy to make themselves feel better.

However, that is not the whole picture, to become a better person through moral regain goes so far. If the person succeeds in positively increasing his or her moral performance, what once was acceptable would become unacceptable, but the more stable you become the harder it becomes to increase your ethical health. In reaction to this, the majority of people settle for somewhere in the middle. For example, if you ask another if they are a good person, they will tend to say that they are, but really going by earthly standards they are neither an angel nor a demon. They wouldn't murder, then again they wouldn't sacrifice they home for a homeless person.

In turn morality becomes obsessive, the harder it becomes to become more of a moral person, the smaller the moral problem becomes. Getting drunk on occasion is considered acceptable in our society, and therefore it isn't considered a big moral problem.

For me, this way of moral living is totally godless, if it be by it's own. Of course in Christianity living lawfully is good. But it doesn't please God and therefore it is ultimately worthless. Whereas most people after pursuing the road of pride and vanity, they would morally regain themselves, I due to what Jesus Christ did or rather what God did to Jesus Christ, would return to being faithful. Being faithful completes this over lapping of moral regain by placing your self upon another person, in which He Jesus Christ, was perfect. I found that I was pushing away faith in turn for a moral standard, a earthly standard by which many go by. Simply it cannot work, by relating yourself to this earthly standard and living by it, it is certain that you will compete against one another. And from that, jealously, violence, greed, etc are formed. You will compete against each other because it is a case of decreasing or increasing the moral standard. I am not saying murder will become acceptable, but jail sentences and court justice will either be increased or reduced. By which, it could be seen that crime and general immorality will be more 'outgoing'.

My claims can be backed up by history, looking back there was strong criminal justice in the courts, unjust punishments were committed, such as torcher. But now, in the modern world, the courts have scrapped harsh punishment, and instead unrighteousness has linked more frequently out of the courts and into our streets.

But faith sums up this problem, restraining it under the authority of grace. It is this, we are simply too corrupt for moral regain, not even that, but moral regain cannot work. And thus, I when I was on the track of immorality and faithlessness, did not want to regain my moral control, but I wanted more of my faith. Since in a lack of faith comes pride. To do it yourself, but given faith, nothing is in your favour.

Most of it was Tl;DR.

Can someone give me a condensed version instead of the preachy bull long winded version?


Get use to it, when studying these issues, they recall a lot of reading.
omelet
Posts: 416
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12/21/2010 7:01:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/21/2010 5:25:44 PM, GodSands wrote:
Not any theology, instead some of mine which came to mind.

Lately I have been vain and prideful of myself, giving into sin and what not. My faith ran dry and therefore my passion turned to smoke.
Obviously not, since you're still preaching and you still seem to be high on Jesus.

For example, if you ask another if they are a good person, they will tend to say that they are, but really going by earthly standards they are neither an angel nor a demon. They wouldn't murder, then again they wouldn't sacrifice they home for a homeless person.
Moral extremes are simply not practical. While perhaps we should strive to be as good as we can be, we can't expect ourselves to be perfect. It's simply not practical to give up all your belongings for people who are more needy. It is practical to occasionally do nice things for people, but to still look out for oneself.

In turn morality becomes obsessive, the harder it becomes to become more of a moral person, the smaller the moral problem becomes. Getting drunk on occasion is considered acceptable in our society, and therefore it isn't considered a big moral problem.
It's not a moral problem. The problem is what people do when drunk, what people allow others to do when drunk, and how few precautions people take.

Going out to a bar with a designated driver or another way home is not irresponsible or immoral in the slightest.

I found that I was pushing away faith in turn for a moral standard, a earthly standard by which many go by. Simply it cannot work, by relating yourself to this earthly standard and living by it, it is certain that you will compete against one another. And from that, jealously, violence, greed, etc are formed.
No, this doesn't follow. Yes, in the real world (the world you live in, whether you like it or not), people often are at odds with one another. Conflict exists. But it doesn't necessarily turn to violence. Reasonable, rational people don't just start swinging when things don't go their way.

And while there might be a moral problem with violence, there simply isn't a problem with greed or jealousy in themselves. In fact, greed is often a main motivation for people to be productive members of society. If people weren't greedy, how many people do you think would get jobs? Why would they bother?

Jealousy isn't quite so benign, but it's a feeling, and one people don't have to act on. Being jealous of your neighbor's new car isn't immoral - but stealing it is.

My claims can be backed up by history, looking back there was strong criminal justice in the courts, unjust punishments were committed, such as torcher. But now, in the modern world, the courts have scrapped harsh punishment, and instead unrighteousness has linked more frequently out of the courts and into our streets.
Not so. Not at all.

Crime is worst in the modern world in America. Out of the modern countries, America tends to be the harshest when it comes to criminal punishments. Just look at the stats for how many people per capita we hold in prisons. Or the stats on capital punishment (we do capital punishment a lot more than you guys in Europe). And yet, that does not seem to solve our problems.

On a side note, we're also a lot more religious (specifically Christian) than you guys. Weird that we'd have such higher instances of crime if faith is a cure for it.

Since in a lack of faith comes pride.
That's BS. Everyone has pride. You do, I do. The fact that you have faith doesn't diminish your pride whatsoever. You're just proud of different things. You're proud that you're such a wonderful follower for Jesus (or at least, you strive to be able to have that pride). You're proud that you have Ultimate Truth (TM) on your side. And you'd probably be proud of all the same normal things as us secular folks - proud of being good at your craft, of being self-sufficient, etc. Not only does faith not remove pride, but there's also nothing wrong with pride. Pride lets us feel good about ourselves when we succeed, giving us further incentive to seek future successes.
Johnicle
Posts: 888
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12/21/2010 7:48:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Thanks dude for correcting some grammar mistakes, considering I am British I don't go by the American standard of spelling.

It wasn't aimed to make you look dumb, I just felt like doing it. I make mistakes all the time when typing online, although, since I just got done with finals, for some reason I couldn't read it without correction.

Also your aren't going by a standard of what is right, since according to yourself, no objective truth exists. Everything is subjective, yet your are sure to correct me. Isn't that being self contradictory.

You're right, truth is subjective. I am not contending that I don't take place in practicing objective truth, but I am willing to admit when I am wrong. I apologize for not realizing that you are from another country and realize that your interpretation of English is legitimate.