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possibility of an afterlife

Benshapiro
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7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/9/2016 8:54:13 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

It did not arose spontaneously. It arose as function of a brain in a body and that body came to be through hopefully pleasant circumstances for both the mother and the father.

I do not know whether there is life after death or not.
Guess what?
Neither do you.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/10/2016 12:01:25 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

I'm an atheist and I don't consider an afterlife impossible.

Sam Harris said of Ian Stevenson and his studies (on reincarnation), "either he is a victim of truly elaborate fraud, or something interesting is going on."
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/10/2016 12:09:15 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

I don't know that it's impossible, but it does not appear to be real.

> Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality.

Spontaneously? What does that mean in this context. My consciousness "arose" in my functioning brain; something I won't have after I die.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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7/10/2016 12:52:54 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

I don't think an afterlife is impossible, but I see no consistent objective observations to make me think it is probable either.

As far as "consciousness spontaneously arising", I will say I know of no consciousness independent of a physical brain. Consciousness is a mysterious thing, but that doesnt mean it has magical powers. It means we dont know very much about it. You're better than arguments from ignorance aren't you, Ben?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/10/2016 12:58:18 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

See this is the fallacy of it all. Atheists get mad if you say atheism is a belief, then they claim it is a "lack of belief". You will argue that they take a specific stance on the issue, thus it is a belief. They will then claim they have no stance, just a lack of belief. Then you will make a nice, interesting thread that insinuates that atheism might not be true and they will become militant against it destroying their entire bs claim that atheism is not a stance nor a belief. It's an agenda.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/10/2016 12:59:54 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

It did spontaneously arise. Even if you claim the brain as a complex computer, someone turned that bad boy on and flippeed that "on" switch.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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7/10/2016 1:17:42 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible?

Life after death? Think about it.

Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality.

No. Your consciousness developed from a near-blank state at birth to the state you have as an adult. The development of your consciousness was influenced by a million things in the environment you grew up in. There was nothing 'spontaneous' about it.

Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

Again? I thought an afterlife was defined as a continuation of the consciousness you had during life. That is obviously impossible since consciousness is a function of brain. Once the brain has died, no more consciousness. It's not hard to understand.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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7/10/2016 1:21:24 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 12:58:18 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

See this is the fallacy of it all. Atheists get mad if you say atheism is a belief, then they claim it is a "lack of belief". You will argue that they take a specific stance on the issue, thus it is a belief. They will then claim they have no stance, just a lack of belief. Then you will make a nice, interesting thread that insinuates that atheism might not be true and they will become militant against it destroying their entire bs claim that atheism is not a stance nor a belief. It's an agenda.

Atheists have no belief in gods.
Atheists have no belief in an afterlife.

Where is the inconsistency? Where is the agenda?
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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7/10/2016 1:26:15 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 12:59:54 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

It did spontaneously arise. Even if you claim the brain as a complex computer, someone turned that bad boy on and flippeed that "on" switch.

It's called life and life does not require any flipping of a non-existent "switch".

Could your analogies become any more ridiculous?
difference
Posts: 177
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7/10/2016 2:59:07 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:54:13 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

It did not arose spontaneously. It arose as function of a brain in a body and that body came to be through hopefully pleasant circumstances for both the mother and the father.


Presumably there is no consciousness after death, but there is also no consciousness before birth. What's the difference between the void of before-birth and after-death?

I know you've said that consciousness arose as a function of the brain, but what about a brain could determine which particular consciousness?

I do not know whether there is life after death or not.
Guess what?
Neither do you.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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7/10/2016 6:32:04 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

What evidence is there of an afterlife?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/10/2016 6:58:51 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 1:26:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/10/2016 12:59:54 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

It did spontaneously arise. Even if you claim the brain as a complex computer, someone turned that bad boy on and flippeed that "on" switch.

It's called life and life does not require any flipping of a non-existent "switch".

Could your analogies become any more ridiculous?

Probably.
Looncall
Posts: 460
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7/10/2016 12:00:07 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 2:59:07 AM, difference wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:54:13 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

It did not arose spontaneously. It arose as function of a brain in a body and that body came to be through hopefully pleasant circumstances for both the mother and the father.


Presumably there is no consciousness after death, but there is also no consciousness before birth. What's the difference between the void of before-birth and after-death?

I know you've said that consciousness arose as a function of the brain, but what about a brain could determine which particular consciousness?

I do not know whether there is life after death or not.
Guess what?
Neither do you.

Its history.

Remember, consciousness is not a thing or a substance, it's a process.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
rnjs
Posts: 381
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7/10/2016 12:04:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 1:21:24 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/10/2016 12:58:18 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

See this is the fallacy of it all. Atheists get mad if you say atheism is a belief, then they claim it is a "lack of belief". You will argue that they take a specific stance on the issue, thus it is a belief. They will then claim they have no stance, just a lack of belief. Then you will make a nice, interesting thread that insinuates that atheism might not be true and they will become militant against it destroying their entire bs claim that atheism is not a stance nor a belief. It's an agenda.

Atheists have no belief in gods.

Atheists believe they have no belief in God

Atheists have no belief in an afterlife.

Atheists believe they have no belief in an afterlife.

Where is the inconsistency? Where is the agenda?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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7/10/2016 12:38:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 12:58:18 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

See this is the fallacy of it all. Atheists get mad if you say atheism is a belief, then they claim it is a "lack of belief". You will argue that they take a specific stance on the issue, thus it is a belief. They will then claim they have no stance, just a lack of belief. Then you will make a nice, interesting thread that insinuates that atheism might not be true and they will become militant against it destroying their entire bs claim that atheism is not a stance nor a belief. It's an agenda.

An example of your threads, hypocritical liar.

"Atheism is full of crap. Want proof?"
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Willows
Posts: 2,068
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7/10/2016 1:00:22 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 12:58:18 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

See this is the fallacy of it all. Atheists get mad if you say atheism is a belief, then they claim it is a "lack of belief". You will argue that they take a specific stance on the issue, thus it is a belief. They will then claim they have no stance, just a lack of belief. Then you will make a nice, interesting thread that insinuates that atheism might not be true and they will become militant against it destroying their entire bs claim that atheism is not a stance nor a belief. It's an agenda.

I realise that the concept of logic may be contrary to your brand of thinking however what you just wrote here certainly displays a profound lack of cohesive thought.
Atheism is not a belief....full stop.
A lobster sitting on a telephone makes more sense than the "insinuation that atheism may not be true".
Is it any wonder why any thinking atheist would take exception. I think you would do better to put the bible down for a while and start reading comics. At least they are a lot closer to depicting reality.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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7/10/2016 1:36:56 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
here it is again.
At 7/10/2016 6:32:04 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

What evidence is there of an afterlife?
difference
Posts: 177
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7/10/2016 2:06:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 12:00:07 PM, Looncall wrote:
At 7/10/2016 2:59:07 AM, difference wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:54:13 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

It did not arose spontaneously. It arose as function of a brain in a body and that body came to be through hopefully pleasant circumstances for both the mother and the father.


Presumably there is no consciousness after death, but there is also no consciousness before birth. What's the difference between the void of before-birth and after-death?

I know you've said that consciousness arose as a function of the brain, but what about a brain could determine which particular consciousness?

I do not know whether there is life after death or not.
Guess what?
Neither do you.

Its history.

Remember, consciousness is not a thing or a substance, it's a process.

What is death for you?
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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7/10/2016 2:44:50 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

Death is a event wich we all participant in.
A afterlife can't be impossible. As It can't be known. Full stop.
If you don't know what it was like living 20 years 5 months before you were born.
This afterlife thing is not worth thinking about. It's a irrelevant assumption I assume.
What I'm trying to say is.
I want to come back as a shark. Or a duck.
And so my words can't be twisted.
God is not a act or event known.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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7/10/2016 3:33:24 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 12:04:12 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 7/10/2016 1:21:24 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/10/2016 12:58:18 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

See this is the fallacy of it all. Atheists get mad if you say atheism is a belief, then they claim it is a "lack of belief". You will argue that they take a specific stance on the issue, thus it is a belief. They will then claim they have no stance, just a lack of belief. Then you will make a nice, interesting thread that insinuates that atheism might not be true and they will become militant against it destroying their entire bs claim that atheism is not a stance nor a belief. It's an agenda.

Atheists have no belief in gods.

Atheists believe they have no belief in God

No. Atheists wouldn't be atheists unless they had no belief in gods. You are confusing a fact with a belief.

Atheists have no belief in an afterlife.

Atheists believe they have no belief in an afterlife.

No. See above. Same confusion.

Where is the inconsistency? Where is the agenda?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/10/2016 5:35:50 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible?

As a conjecture, the persistence of intelligence and knowledge after death are highly implausible, given that they already both decay in life, and can suffer massive and irreparable damage from organic injury.

Completely impossible however, is the ethical acceptance of claiming improbable conjectures about afterlife as actionable knowledge without first making a long sequence of specific, significant, relevant, accurate and independently-testable predictions for others to scrutinise.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,034
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7/10/2016 6:22:43 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
There is a good and logical way to prove afterlife, and that's by proving existence of God.
If there is God there should be an afterlife. Because if God exists he must be kind and just. A just God would prepare a stage to judge between people. Because afterall this world is not enough to punish bad people and reward good people. For example Someone who's killed a lot of innocent people and has gotten away with it in this world should be sentenced for his crimes somewhere. now if you ask how can you prove that God is just? I can say that God has no reason to be unjust. he doesn't have a goal or a desire or fear or lack of knowledge or weaknesses or ignorance. These are the reasons that cause people to be unjust. He'somniscient and omnipotent. And he's created goals for everything in this world. So what's the goal of humans who can acquire great knowledge and wisdom that has no monetary value? What would be the point of becoming good if it was all for naught? why would you not steal if you could get away with it and make your earthly life better? ...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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7/10/2016 6:46:18 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 6:22:43 PM, lightseeker wrote:
There is a good and logical way to prove afterlife, and that's by proving existence of God.
If there is God there should be an afterlife. Because if God exists he must be kind and just. A just God would prepare a stage to judge between people. Because afterall this world is not enough to punish bad people and reward good people. For example Someone who's killed a lot of innocent people and has gotten away with it in this world should be sentenced for his crimes somewhere. now if you ask how can you prove that God is just? I can say that God has no reason to be unjust. he doesn't have a goal or a desire or fear or lack of knowledge or weaknesses or ignorance. These are the reasons that cause people to be unjust. He'somniscient and omnipotent. And he's created goals for everything in this world. So what's the goal of humans who can acquire great knowledge and wisdom that has no monetary value? What would be the point of becoming good if it was all for naught? why would you not steal if you could get away with it and make your earthly life better? ...

There is no logic whatsoever, you have offered baseless assertions based on ignorance and feigned knowledge.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
lightseeker
Posts: 1,034
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7/10/2016 6:48:27 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 6:46:18 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/10/2016 6:22:43 PM, lightseeker wrote:
There is a good and logical way to prove afterlife, and that's by proving existence of God.
If there is God there should be an afterlife. Because if God exists he must be kind and just. A just God would prepare a stage to judge between people. Because afterall this world is not enough to punish bad people and reward good people. For example Someone who's killed a lot of innocent people and has gotten away with it in this world should be sentenced for his crimes somewhere. now if you ask how can you prove that God is just? I can say that God has no reason to be unjust. he doesn't have a goal or a desire or fear or lack of knowledge or weaknesses or ignorance. These are the reasons that cause people to be unjust. He'somniscient and omnipotent. And he's created goals for everything in this world. So what's the goal of humans who can acquire great knowledge and wisdom that has no monetary value? What would be the point of becoming good if it was all for naught? why would you not steal if you could get away with it and make your earthly life better? ...

There is no logic whatsoever, you have offered baseless assertions based on ignorance and feigned knowledge.

) prove
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/10/2016 7:35:52 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 6:22:43 PM, lightseeker wrote:
There is a good and logical way to prove afterlife, and that's by proving existence of God.
If there is God there should be an afterlife.

Even if there should be an afterlife, that doesn't mean there is one.
For example, there should be peace on Earth, and yet there is not.

Because if God exists he must be kind and just.

False.
Why are you excluding the possibility of a malevolent God?

A just God would prepare a stage to judge between people.

Hmmm, no.
He could do it right here, right now.

Because afterall this world is not enough to punish bad people and reward good people.

What are the Islamic requirements going to Heaven and descending to Hell?

For example Someone who's killed a lot of innocent people and has gotten away with it in this world should be sentenced for his crimes somewhere. now if you ask how can you prove that God is just? I can say that God has no reason to be unjust.

Yes, you can say that.
I can say that a tortoise is a bird.

he doesn't have a goal or a desire or fear or lack of knowledge or weaknesses or ignorance.

Supposedly, God revealed all these things to you. How do you know God wasn't deceiving you?

These are the reasons that cause people to be unjust. He'somniscient and omnipotent. And he's created goals for everything in this world. So what's the goal of humans who can acquire great knowledge and wisdom that has no monetary value? What would be the point of becoming good if it was all for naught?

Because virtue is its own reward?

why would you not steal if you could get away with it and make your earthly life better? ...

Because one has morals?
lightseeker
Posts: 1,034
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7/10/2016 7:58:35 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 7:35:52 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/10/2016 6:22:43 PM, lightseeker wrote:
There is a good and logical way to prove afterlife, and that's by proving existence of God.
If there is God there should be an afterlife.
Even if there should be an afterlife, that doesn't mean there is one.
For example, there should be peace on Earth, and yet there is not.
This is the world of actions. People do all kinds of things and get away with it. People disrupt the peace on earth for their personal gain. Wage wars for territory and resources. This is a place where people have a choice in their actions. It should be like this so that good and badpeople would be revealed. This is not a place that can truly punish/reward people. If you kill one person you'll be sentenced to death. If you kill 100000 people you'll also be sentenced to death.

Because if God exists he must be kind and just.
False.
Why are you excluding the possibility of a malevolent God?
Because it's illogical. And is against what we see on earth. If God was malevolent, he wouldn't create this beautiful world for us. He wouldn't create friendship and love and hope.... the love and the care parents show towards their children, who you think gave them that?

A just God would prepare a stage to judge between people.
Hmmm, no.
He could do it right here, right now.
Matter is limited. And there is death in this world. So complete reward/punishment is impossible in this limited material world.

Because afterall this world is not enough to punish bad people and reward good people.
What are the Islamic requirements going to Heaven and descending to Hell?
To seek the right path to God the best you can and follow it would get you to heaven.

For example Someone who's killed a lot of innocent people and has gotten away with it in this world should be sentenced for his crimes somewhere. now if you ask how can you prove that God is just? I can say that God has no reason to be unjust.
Yes, you can say that.
I can say that a tortoise is a bird.
Can you prove it?

he doesn't have a goal or a desire or fear or lack of knowledge or weaknesses or ignorance.
Supposedly, God revealed all these things to you. How do you know God wasn't deceiving you?
These are all logically provable.

These are the reasons that cause people to be unjust. He'somniscient and omnipotent. And he's created goals for everything in this world. So what's the goal of humans who can acquire great knowledge and wisdom that has no monetary value? What would be the point of becoming good if it was all for naught?
Because virtue is its own reward?
Give it a rest. A reward that ends in vain is vain in the first place.

why would you not steal if you could get away with it and make your earthly life better?
Because one has morals?
What is the basis of this morality of yours?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/10/2016 8:11:58 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:22:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Why is an afterlife impossible? Your consciousness spontaneously arose in this reality. Why would it be impossible for this to happen again?

It is not just possible, it will happen.

Why would anyone think that the God who created even the smallest detail of this universe could not restore this earth to what it should be, what it was supposed to be?

Or that he could not create Adam like bodies designed to do all the things Adam was designed to do but threw away, including live forever in perfect health?

Or even that his memory is not sufficiently detailed to be able to place the memories and personalities of the dead into those new bodies?

He can do it.

He wants to do it.

He will do it.

Christ's sacrifice guarantees it.
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/10/2016 8:29:45 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 7:58:35 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/10/2016 7:35:52 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/10/2016 6:22:43 PM, lightseeker wrote:
There is a good and logical way to prove afterlife, and that's by proving existence of God.
If there is God there should be an afterlife.
Even if there should be an afterlife, that doesn't mean there is one.
For example, there should be peace on Earth, and yet there is not.

This is the world of actions. People do all kinds of things and get away with it. People disrupt the peace on earth for their personal gain.

Islamic fascists being a prime example.

Wage wars for territory and resources. This is a place where people have a choice in their actions. It should be like this so that good and badpeople would be revealed. This is not a place that can truly punish/reward people. If you kill one person you'll be sentenced to death. If you kill 100000 people you'll also be sentenced to death.


Ah, the difference is that the sentence will be proportional to the crime. Whereas in Christian hell, it's one size fits all sort of punishment. Is the Islamic Hell like Christianity's?

Because if God exists he must be kind and just.
False.
Why are you excluding the possibility of a malevolent God?

Because it's illogical. And is against what we see on earth. If God was malevolent, he wouldn't create this beautiful world for us. He wouldn't create friendship and love and hope.... the love and the care parents show towards their children, who you think gave them that?


Because a cunning malevolent God would precisely create all the wonderful things you describe just to watch as they fall apart, time after time after time. Friendships break up, families break up, the planet breaks up.

What you describe is entirely consistent with an hypothetical malevolent God.

A just God would prepare a stage to judge between people.
Hmmm, no.
He could do it right here, right now.
Matter is limited.

So?

And there is death in this world. So complete reward/punishment is impossible in this limited material world.

The alternative explanation is that the entirety of your theology is, well, a compelte fiction.


Because afterall this world is not enough to punish bad people and reward good people.

It's called wishful thinking when you so ardently wish for something to be true, that you begin to see it even in the absence of evidence.

What are the Islamic requirements going to Heaven and descending to Hell?
To seek the right path to God the best you can and follow it would get you to heaven.


And for Hell?

For example Someone who's killed a lot of innocent people and has gotten away with it in this world should be sentenced for his crimes somewhere. now if you ask how can you prove that God is just? I can say that God has no reason to be unjust.
Yes, you can say that.
I can say that a tortoise is a bird.
Can you prove it?

I can prove it to the same degree you can prove your claims.

he doesn't have a goal or a desire or fear or lack of knowledge or weaknesses or ignorance.
Supposedly, God revealed all these things to you. How do you know God wasn't deceiving you?
These are all logically provable.

Be my guest.

These are the reasons that cause people to be unjust. He'somniscient and omnipotent. And he's created goals for everything in this world. So what's the goal of humans who can acquire great knowledge and wisdom that has no monetary value? What would be the point of becoming good if it was all for naught?
Because virtue is its own reward?
Give it a rest. A reward that ends in vain is vain in the first place.

That's your rather surprising answer.
Virtue is its own reward.

If you're doing it for some other reason, say the alleged number of virgins that will be awaiting you in Heaven, than it's not virtue.

It's self-interest.


why would you not steal if you could get away with it and make your earthly life better?
Because one has morals?

What is the basis of this morality of yours?

I'm not going to derail topic, but to answer you: human well-being.