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Is the bible a test?

Brushfire
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7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/10/2016 10:10:56 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Sweden was once Christian. Now it is almost entirely secular. Now it is the rape capital of the world. Poland is 83% Christian today. Stable economy, no migration crisis, low crime. There's your sign.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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12_13
Posts: 1,365
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7/10/2016 5:37:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Hmmm" I don"t think there is any lie in the Bible. Can you say one example of Biblical lie? Bible teaches for example to love others. Is that wrong or false?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/10/2016 6:25:48 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 5:37:30 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Hmmm" I don"t think there is any lie in the Bible. Can you say one example of Biblical lie? Bible teaches for example to love others. Is that wrong or false?

Exodus is one big lie. The rest is complete bollox too, but you only asked for one.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/10/2016 6:36:00 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 10:10:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Sweden was once Christian. Now it is almost entirely secular. Now it is the rape capital of the world. Poland is 83% Christian today. Stable economy, no migration crisis, low crime. There's your sign.

Why do you claim Sweden is the "rape capital of the world"? What are the statistics?
The United Nations defines the Democratic Republic of Congo as the rape capital of the world. Obviously the largest religion in DR Congo is Christianity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

Poland's migration crisis is outward not inward.

Top 3 happiest countries in the world 1 Norway, 2 Denmark, 3 Sweden.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/10/2016 8:30:50 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Yes, an interesting theory, but false.

The Bible is in fact, for purely legal reasons an absolutely accurate record of event since the beginning of creation.

Why?

When Satan caused Adam and Eve to deviate from the only law they were given he in effect laid down a challenge to Jehovah which is detailed in the opening verses of Job chapters 1 and 2.

Yes, Jehovah could have wiped everything out and started again, but what would that prove apart from the already obvious?

And what about Justice?

True justice applies to both the guilty and the innocent equally or it isn't justice.

Equally if it isn't seen to be done by others it is not truly justice either.

So Jehovah was forced, by the demands of justice, to allow Satan the opportunity to prove his case.

Of course there is a lot more to it than that simple statement, but again only to satisfy the best possible justice for all in the end.

We are abut to enter the final phase of Satan's opportunity, and he has failed dismally at everything so far.

You see he made his own task impossible by claiming that no human would ever serve Jehovah willingly, or without both protection and reward, an impossible task really, because that means only one in each set of circumstances has to prove faithful.

So the Bible is Jehovah's evidence against Satan, and what's more he has declared it before it has all happened so that should any prove a failure his whole case against Satan would collapse.

Except that it won't because jehovah has more than enough influence to make sure that it will all happen, and his son's sacrifice has guaranteed that.

But is the Bible also a test?

It was not written with testing in mind, but it does indeed test us all.

You said that the Bible leaves Jehovah open to all sorts of accusations, and if only taken on the surface it does indeed do so.

The test is to see if we are determined enough to find the actual truth that we will dig deep enough to find out what is behind everything it portrays.

Those of us who have taken the trouble to do that know that Jehovah is the most maligned, slandered lied against God that has ever been.

He is 100% innocent of any unnecessary cruelty, and I stress the word unnecessary in that statement.

His only interest is the benefit of his creation.

Everything he condemns is bad for us, in the long term if not the short.

Everything he asks us not to do harms someone somewhere even if we never meet them.

Everything he asks us to do helps us to fit into a completely united human race.

You see, in Jehovah's eyes there is only one race, the human race.

We may not like what he asks of us, or stops us doing, but that is because we are inherently selfish.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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7/10/2016 9:19:31 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
The bible is only a test of the people who claim it is the inspired word of God. How much they live according to it moral teachings and how they deal with success and failure.
It is more important to practice what one preaches or it makes the words hollow.
The more important question should be: Is the bible relevant? There isn't enough math or science to meet the requirements of a 4th grader and that is the primary reason the Bible does not meet the curriculum standards of our educational system and therefore not taught in schools.
Where it is taught like in churches and Sunday schools by pastors and religious groups. It is done to indoctrinate the listeners with little consideration for academic discourses.The higher places of learning (Bible colleges) where the bible is taught with textual criticism and historicical scrutiny, it produces unexpected skeptics and critics who disavow everything they used to believe.
Brushfire
Posts: 26
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7/11/2016 12:12:46 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 8:30:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Yes, an interesting theory, but false.

The Bible is in fact, for purely legal reasons an absolutely accurate record of event since the beginning of creation.

Why?

When Satan caused Adam and Eve to deviate from the only law they were given he in effect laid down a challenge to Jehovah which is detailed in the opening verses of Job chapters 1 and 2.

Yes, Jehovah could have wiped everything out and started again, but what would that prove apart from the already obvious?

And what about Justice?

True justice applies to both the guilty and the innocent equally or it isn't justice.

Equally if it isn't seen to be done by others it is not truly justice either.

So Jehovah was forced, by the demands of justice, to allow Satan the opportunity to prove his case.

Of course there is a lot more to it than that simple statement, but again only to satisfy the best possible justice for all in the end.

We are abut to enter the final phase of Satan's opportunity, and he has failed dismally at everything so far.

You see he made his own task impossible by claiming that no human would ever serve Jehovah willingly, or without both protection and reward, an impossible task really, because that means only one in each set of circumstances has to prove faithful.

So the Bible is Jehovah's evidence against Satan, and what's more he has declared it before it has all happened so that should any prove a failure his whole case against Satan would collapse.

Except that it won't because jehovah has more than enough influence to make sure that it will all happen, and his son's sacrifice has guaranteed that.

But is the Bible also a test?

It was not written with testing in mind, but it does indeed test us all.

You said that the Bible leaves Jehovah open to all sorts of accusations, and if only taken on the surface it does indeed do so.

It does if you read it as well the only reason why is because the bible was poorly written in regards to it specifying what it means.

The test is to see if we are determined enough to find the actual truth that we will dig deep enough to find out what is behind everything it portrays.

That's that lead me away from faith. I wanted to see if it was true and see if it was an accurate representation of reality. I found that it is not. so I stopped believing in it.

Those of us who have taken the trouble to do that know that Jehovah is the most maligned, slandered lied against God that has ever been.

He is 100% innocent of any unnecessary cruelty, and I stress the word unnecessary in that statement.

So global genocide to both people and animals as it's written in Noah's ark was necessary? Why not a warning first? It's like if an angle said "hey god these humans are getting out of hand you should do something" God: "kill them all" Angle: "all of them? and all the animals too? isn't that a bit much?" God: "yea your right kill all but one family and two of every animal"

His only interest is the benefit of his creation.

Then please do explain why war, famine, poverty are things that god does not see as an issue. If there is a god and he does care about us then in my book he's done a bad enough job I don't know why you'd call him a god.

Everything he condemns is bad for us, in the long term if not the short.

The please explain why 75% of the 613 commandments (yes there are more than 10) end in: "ye shall surly stone them to death". Also considering what half the commandments are in the first place makes god sound like a dictating control freak. Please explain how wearing mixed fabrics is bad for us?

Everything he asks us not to do harms someone somewhere even if we never meet them.

Again 75% of the things he tells us not to do he says if you see someone doing one of those things kill them. That definitely causes no harm at all.

Everything he asks us to do helps us to fit into a completely united human race.

Assuming that you kill the people who say otherwise you could say that about any sot of society.

You see, in Jehovah's eyes there is only one race, the human race.

There is only one race of humans anyway most people can't get past their ego to see that.

We may not like what he asks of us, or stops us doing, but that is because we are inherently selfish.

God is also selfish more then any human could ever be.
Brushfire
Posts: 26
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7/11/2016 12:13:50 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 6:25:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/10/2016 5:37:30 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Hmmm" I don"t think there is any lie in the Bible. Can you say one example of Biblical lie? Bible teaches for example to love others. Is that wrong or false?

Exodus is one big lie. The rest is complete bollox too, but you only asked for one.

The bible also says seven headed dragons are real.
Brushfire
Posts: 26
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7/11/2016 12:14:43 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 6:36:00 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/10/2016 10:10:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Sweden was once Christian. Now it is almost entirely secular. Now it is the rape capital of the world. Poland is 83% Christian today. Stable economy, no migration crisis, low crime. There's your sign.

Why do you claim Sweden is the "rape capital of the world"? What are the statistics?
The United Nations defines the Democratic Republic of Congo as the rape capital of the world. Obviously the largest religion in DR Congo is Christianity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

Poland's migration crisis is outward not inward.

Top 3 happiest countries in the world 1 Norway, 2 Denmark, 3 Sweden.

I also want to see the statistics of this.
Casten
Posts: 391
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7/11/2016 12:40:48 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Now that is interesting.

I could buy the Old Testament being a test, since God is at his worst there. Not too sure about the New Testament.
dee-em
Posts: 6,477
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7/11/2016 4:34:20 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

What if it's a double bluff? What if God put in the lies and immorality deliberately to make it seem like it was written by Satan but in reality he was testing the faithful in their resolve?

Better still, there is a third possibility. What if the Bible were written by ignorant but well meaning men and God or Satan are figments of the imagination? What then?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/11/2016 5:21:27 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 12:14:43 AM, Brushfire wrote:
At 7/10/2016 6:36:00 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/10/2016 10:10:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Sweden was once Christian. Now it is almost entirely secular. Now it is the rape capital of the world. Poland is 83% Christian today. Stable economy, no migration crisis, low crime. There's your sign.

Why do you claim Sweden is the "rape capital of the world"? What are the statistics?
The United Nations defines the Democratic Republic of Congo as the rape capital of the world. Obviously the largest religion in DR Congo is Christianity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

Poland's migration crisis is outward not inward.

Top 3 happiest countries in the world 1 Norway, 2 Denmark, 3 Sweden.

I also want to see the statistics of this.

My mistake, I gave the figures for 2013, below is link to 2016 figures.

http://www.sciencealert.com...
Brushfire
Posts: 26
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7/11/2016 5:44:45 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 4:34:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

What if it's a double bluff? What if God put in the lies and immorality deliberately to make it seem like it was written by Satan but in reality he was testing the faithful in their resolve?

Better still, there is a third possibility. What if the Bible were written by ignorant but well meaning men and God or Satan are figments of the imagination? What then?

I acknowledge the possibility of the double bluff. However logically it makes no sense to bluff at all. I personally think the "figments of imagination an ignorance" is the most likely possibility.

Oh look lighting what causes that? I don't know, I cant explain it. There must be a reason a higher power must do it.

That's all it would take to start a religion, find something you can't explain.
Brushfire
Posts: 26
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7/11/2016 5:52:51 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 12:40:48 AM, Casten wrote:
Now that is interesting.

I could buy the Old Testament being a test, since God is at his worst there. Not too sure about the New Testament.

It also depends on what characteristics "god" has.

Most common are: omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and immutable.

And for those who don't know and are lazy like me.

omnipotent: all powerful
omniscient: all knowing
omnipresent: is everywhere
immutable: never changes

If you accept all of those the bad god of the old testament is the same god in the new testament. Also remember that the new testament can not exist with out the old. And if you accept the four traits above you got to admit god could have done a better job.
Brushfire
Posts: 26
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7/11/2016 5:56:39 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 10:10:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Sweden was once Christian. Now it is almost entirely secular. Now it is the rape capital of the world. Poland is 83% Christian today. Stable economy, no migration crisis, low crime. There's your sign.

Sweden is not the rape capital of the world because of secularism. It's due to religion.

http://www.allenbwest.com...
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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7/11/2016 6:22:56 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 10:10:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Sweden was once Christian. Now it is almost entirely secular. Now it is the rape capital of the world
You must be terminally stupid to keep telling that lie and expecting people to listen to you about anything.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Willows
Posts: 2,063
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7/11/2016 7:02:40 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 5:56:39 AM, Brushfire wrote:
At 7/10/2016 10:10:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Sweden was once Christian. Now it is almost entirely secular. Now it is the rape capital of the world. Poland is 83% Christian today. Stable economy, no migration crisis, low crime. There's your sign.

Sweden is not the rape capital of the world because of secularism. It's due to religion.

http://www.allenbwest.com...

It's due to neither, nor from immigration for that matter. It so happens that over the past few years Sweden has passed laws broadening the definition of rape hence more reports of rape. Also the reporting system is different, for example several instances of rape on one person are counted individually whereas other countries will include all instances in one charge.
Once someone decides to take statistics out of context it doesn't take long for a distorted story to go viral.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/11/2016 2:22:36 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 5:52:51 AM, Brushfire wrote:
At 7/11/2016 12:40:48 AM, Casten wrote:
Now that is interesting.

I could buy the Old Testament being a test, since God is at his worst there. Not too sure about the New Testament.

It also depends on what characteristics "god" has.

Most common are: omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and immutable.

And for those who don't know and are lazy like me.

omnipotent: all powerful
omniscient: all knowing
omnipresent: is everywhere
immutable: never changes

In fact his true characteristics, in the sense you use the word here are:

Able to do anything he wishes to do, or find a need to do.
Capable of knowing anything he chooses to know.

Has "eyes and ears", his faithful Angels, everywhere, but he has never left heaven nor ever will. He has no need to do so.

Physically he never needs to change, nor do his ultimate goals, since he will achieve them.

However his most important characteristic, which governs all of the above, is self control.


If you accept all of those the bad god of the old testament is the same god in the new testament. Also remember that the new testament can not exist with out the old. And if you accept the four traits above you got to admit god could have done a better job.

There is no "bad God f the OT" unless you are referring to Satan.

Everything Jehovah has ever done has been for the overall and long term good of his creation, as anyone who has taken the trouble to dig deep enough into scripture knows all too well.

Any individuals who have suffered have done so because of their own foolish choices which have threatened the overall success of his plan to benefit all of creation.

Yes some of them appear bad on the surface, but once you dig deeply into the whys and wherefores of the situations it becomes clear that, just like the billions who ill perish at Armageddon, they have only done so because they acted in ways which forced him to act.

People criticise Jehovah only because they neither know nor understand the truth of the matter, or alternatively simply don't have the courage to accept it.

In other words they have failed the one, powerful, test that has been set them, and therefore will face the inevitable results of their own decisions.
MadCornishBiker
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7/11/2016 2:26:05 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 12:40:48 AM, Casten wrote:
Now that is interesting.

I could buy the Old Testament being a test, since God is at his worst there. Not too sure about the New Testament.

The badly named New Testament is part of the same story of the same God and is merely a record of prophecy fulfilled up to that point. There is actually little or nothing "new" in it which was not foretold long before.

By stating that God was at his worst in the "OT" all you are doing is showing how little understanding of what was going on you have gained from your reading.

Jehovah always was, is, and always will be at the same "best" all of which has worked or is working to the same end.

If you do not understand that, then you do not understand the Bible, simple as.
Omniverse
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7/11/2016 2:50:04 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 2:26:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/11/2016 12:40:48 AM, Casten wrote:
Now that is interesting.

I could buy the Old Testament being a test, since God is at his worst there. Not too sure about the New Testament.

The badly named New Testament is part of the same story of the same God and is merely a record of prophecy fulfilled up to that point.

Yes, it's the same vile despicable God alright.

There is actually little or nothing "new" in it which was not foretold long before.


Interesting idea. Why would God inspire a redundant set of Scriptures'

I must remind myself that you have admitted to your stupidity and as such nothing you say can ever be reasonably expected to make sense. It's just one inane passage after the other, and all of them have tobe chalked up to that self- confessed condition of yours.

By stating that God was at his worst in the "OT" all you are doing is showing how little understanding of what was going on you have gained from your reading.


No. A quick way to multiply atheists is to give them the Old Testament to read. Read the text as is, without the interference, the abhorrent rationalizations and spurious interpretations, deference mechanisms and confirmation bias some Christians drown the text in.

Jehovah always was, is, and always will be at the same "best" all of which has worked or is working to the same end.

I just love it that you enclosed "best" in quotes.
So involuntarily meaningful.


If you do not understand that, then you do not understand the Bible, simple as.

Translation: "If, after reading the Bible, you do not reach the same conclusions that a self-admittedly stupid individual such as myself has, then I will just make things up and accuse you of not having understood it."
MadCornishBiker
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7/11/2016 2:50:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 12:12:46 AM, Brushfire wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:30:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


It does if you read it as well the only reason why is because the bible was poorly written in regards to it specifying what it means.

In fact it is superbly written for it's purpose, which is to act as evidence in the case against Satan.

Don;t forget it has also been translated many times with varying degrees of inaccuracy especially since the Apostasy took over.


The test is to see if we are determined enough to find the actual truth that we will dig deep enough to find out what is behind everything it portrays.

That's that lead me away from faith. I wanted to see if it was true and see if it was an accurate representation of reality. I found that it is not. so I stopped believing in it.

All you are demonstrating there is how little understanding you have gained from your reading.

The Bible is reality simple as. anything not agreeing with it is unreal and temporary.


Those of us who have taken the trouble to do that know that Jehovah is the most maligned, slandered lied against God that has ever been.

He is 100% innocent of any unnecessary cruelty, and I stress the word unnecessary in that statement.

So global genocide to both people and animals as it's written in Noah's ark was necessary? Why not a warning first? It's like if an angle said "hey god these humans are getting out of hand you should do something" God: "kill them all" Angle: "all of them? and all the animals too? isn't that a bit much?" God: "yea your right kill all but one family and two of every animal"

Absolutely necessary or he would not have done it.

The people refused to listen, and did nothing but disrupt his plan.

They left him with no other choice.

Like so many today, in their ignorance they thought they knew better.


His only interest is the benefit of his creation.

Then please do explain why war, famine, poverty are things that god does not see as an issue. If there is a god and he does care about us then in my book he's done a bad enough job I don't know why you'd call him a god.

He does see them as an issue, and as prophecy tells us he has a plan to end it for all time.

In fact we are near the beginning of the final stage of that plan, all of which was necessary for the sake of true justice, and through all of which Jehovah has done what justice has allowed him to do to protect his creation.

The trouble is that you look at the Bible with myopic, immeasurably inferior, human wisdom whereas we nee to plead with jehovah for some of his wisdom to see the truth of it James 1:5-8.


Everything he condemns is bad for us, in the long term if not the short.

The please explain why 75% of the 613 commandments (yes there are more than 10) end in: "ye shall surly stone them to death". Also considering what half the commandments are in the first place makes god sound like a dictating control freak. Please explain how wearing mixed fabrics is bad for us?

Because the most beneficial thing for all humanity is obedience to Jehovah's plan.

In the resurrection the vast majority of those who refused to obey then will get the chance to learn the benefits of obeying in much better circumstances.

It isn't and for us now, but it made for much weakened garments back then, garments with a much shorter lifespan, and easily misshapen in the wash.

I can easily show you the benefits of every one of those laws for the time in which they were valid as laws. Paul described the Mosaic Law as a tutor leading to Christ. It was that and much more because it contained all the principles that Christ and the Apostles distilled from it in fulfilment of Jeremiah 31:33.

Hence in fulfilment of that prophecy, since Christ we have been under principle, "law in our hearts", not written law.


Everything he asks us not to do harms someone somewhere even if we never meet them.

Again 75% of the things he tells us not to do he says if you see someone doing one of those things kill them. That definitely causes no harm at all.

Not in the long term because they will come back in the resurrection to learn where they went wrong.

In fact if you want to be really pedantic you could rightly claim that it was to their benefit not their loss, since it cut short their time in this wicked system and "hastened" in their perception, their entry into the restored Paradise Earth.


Everything he asks us to do helps us to fit into a completely united human race.

Assuming that you kill the people who say otherwise you could say that about any sot of society.

No, because only Jehovah can restore life, in the resurrection, or to be more accurate Christ using Jehovah's power will.


You see, in Jehovah's eyes there is only one race, the human race.

There is only one race of humans anyway most people can't get past their ego to see that.

That is very true which is why I said "in Jehovah's eye", it has been thus in my eyes also since childhood.

Unfortunately we are brainwashed into thinking our nation is better than all the others by the education system and the media.

It takes a determined effort to even start to break free of the brainwashing by Satan's system of things.

I am a part of a global "one nation" under my King Christ Jesus, and everyone who is of teh same mind recognises his rule over and above all others.

Satan divides mankind up nto nations under his control, because it is easier to conquer us when we are divided.


We may not like what he asks of us, or stops us doing, but that is because we are inherently selfish.

God is also selfish more then any human could ever be.

On the contrary. He is 100% benevolent. everything he does is for the good of his creation.

How can he be benefitted? The only thing he can gain through us is peace of mind, and he gets precious little of that at present.

He already owns everything else by right of creation, and that includes us.

If you don't agree, then please show me the title deed where he has signed over his right of ownership to anyone or anything else.

Until he does, it is all his anyway.
bulproof
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7/11/2016 3:53:22 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 2:50:34 PM, MadCornishBiker
Madman, the bible is just a collection of folk tales and lies concocted to make the poor pathetic tribe of the Hebrews that separated from the other Canaanites feel like the heroes that they never were.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
POPOO5560
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7/11/2016 5:12:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

good one. lately i was thinking things like that... philosophically we all screwed u can argue anything logically... so u have to use Occam's razor stuff
Never fart near dog
DanMGTOW
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7/11/2016 5:27:43 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

that is a very interesting hypothetical. i heard a similar hypothetical that only skeptics were allowed into heaven, and the were too gullible continue to be recycled until they can pass the test.
Brushfire
Posts: 26
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7/11/2016 8:15:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/11/2016 2:50:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/11/2016 12:12:46 AM, Brushfire wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:30:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


It does if you read it as well the only reason why is because the bible was poorly written in regards to it specifying what it means.

In fact it is superbly written for it's purpose, which is to act as evidence in the case against Satan.

Don;t forget it has also been translated many times with varying degrees of inaccuracy especially since the Apostasy took over.


The test is to see if we are determined enough to find the actual truth that we will dig deep enough to find out what is behind everything it portrays.

That's that lead me away from faith. I wanted to see if it was true and see if it was an accurate representation of reality. I found that it is not. so I stopped believing in it.

All you are demonstrating there is how little understanding you have gained from your reading.

The Bible is reality simple as. anything not agreeing with it is unreal and temporary.


Those of us who have taken the trouble to do that know that Jehovah is the most maligned, slandered lied against God that has ever been.

He is 100% innocent of any unnecessary cruelty, and I stress the word unnecessary in that statement.

So global genocide to both people and animals as it's written in Noah's ark was necessary? Why not a warning first? It's like if an angle said "hey god these humans are getting out of hand you should do something" God: "kill them all" Angle: "all of them? and all the animals too? isn't that a bit much?" God: "yea your right kill all but one family and two of every animal"

Absolutely necessary or he would not have done it.

The people refused to listen, and did nothing but disrupt his plan.

They left him with no other choice.

Like so many today, in their ignorance they thought they knew better.


His only interest is the benefit of his creation.

Then please do explain why war, famine, poverty are things that god does not see as an issue. If there is a god and he does care about us then in my book he's done a bad enough job I don't know why you'd call him a god.

He does see them as an issue, and as prophecy tells us he has a plan to end it for all time.

In fact we are near the beginning of the final stage of that plan, all of which was necessary for the sake of true justice, and through all of which Jehovah has done what justice has allowed him to do to protect his creation.

The trouble is that you look at the Bible with myopic, immeasurably inferior, human wisdom whereas we nee to plead with jehovah for some of his wisdom to see the truth of it James 1:5-8.


Everything he condemns is bad for us, in the long term if not the short.

The please explain why 75% of the 613 commandments (yes there are more than 10) end in: "ye shall surly stone them to death". Also considering what half the commandments are in the first place makes god sound like a dictating control freak. Please explain how wearing mixed fabrics is bad for us?

Because the most beneficial thing for all humanity is obedience to Jehovah's plan.

In the resurrection the vast majority of those who refused to obey then will get the chance to learn the benefits of obeying in much better circumstances.

It isn't and for us now, but it made for much weakened garments back then, garments with a much shorter lifespan, and easily misshapen in the wash.

I can easily show you the benefits of every one of those laws for the time in which they were valid as laws. Paul described the Mosaic Law as a tutor leading to Christ. It was that and much more because it contained all the principles that Christ and the Apostles distilled from it in fulfilment of Jeremiah 31:33.

Hence in fulfilment of that prophecy, since Christ we have been under principle, "law in our hearts", not written law.


Everything he asks us not to do harms someone somewhere even if we never meet them.

Again 75% of the things he tells us not to do he says if you see someone doing one of those things kill them. That definitely causes no harm at all.

Not in the long term because they will come back in the resurrection to learn where they went wrong.

In fact if you want to be really pedantic you could rightly claim that it was to their benefit not their loss, since it cut short their time in this wicked system and "hastened" in their perception, their entry into the restored Paradise Earth.


Everything he asks us to do helps us to fit into a completely united human race.

Assuming that you kill the people who say otherwise you could say that about any sot of society.

No, because only Jehovah can restore life, in the resurrection, or to be more accurate Christ using Jehovah's power will.


You see, in Jehovah's eyes there is only one race, the human race.

There is only one race of humans anyway most people can't get past their ego to see that.

That is very true which is why I said "in Jehovah's eye", it has been thus in my eyes also since childhood.

Unfortunately we are brainwashed into thinking our nation is better than all the others by the education system and the media.

It takes a determined effort to even start to break free of the brainwashing by Satan's system of things.

I am a part of a global "one nation" under my King Christ Jesus, and everyone who is of teh same mind recognises his rule over and above all others.

Satan divides mankind up nto nations under his control, because it is easier to conquer us when we are divided.


We may not like what he asks of us, or stops us doing, but that is because we are inherently selfish.

God is also selfish more then any human could ever be.

On the contrary. He is 100% benevolent. everything he does is for the good of his creation.

How can he be benefitted? The only thing he can gain through us is peace of mind, and he gets precious little of that at present.

He already owns everything else by right of creation, and that includes us.

If you don't agree, then please show me the title deed where he has signed over his right of ownership to anyone or anything else.

Until he does, it is all his anyway.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The Earth is ours not gods so why he cares about something he no longer owns is beyond me.

Also congratulations you not knowing that says to me you haven't even read the second page of the bible.

I would respond to the rest but running out of characters.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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7/11/2016 8:37:18 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 6:25:48 PM, desmac wrote:
Exodus is one big lie.

How do you know that? Why should I believe you?
Chloe8
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7/11/2016 9:10:52 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

I've considered that thought as well. However it would be just as barbaric for a god to trick less intelligent people into adopting a false belief when they were trying to find the truth and be good people. The reality is the bible is the biggest fraud ever to exist and has absolutely no meaning or relevance. If a God existed that demanded worship it would make the truth and it's demands obvious. It would not set traps to catch out its creations or allow a devil to lead people astray.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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7/11/2016 9:18:08 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 10:10:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were having a discussion on Christianity (we're both atheists btw). And he explained something to me that I thought was very intriguing. We are both aware that if you read all of what god did in the bible you could call him a lot of mean names considering all the atrocities that god committed. So he came up with this and I'm curious on what others think about it.

Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Sweden was once Christian. Now it is almost entirely secular. Now it is the rape capital of the world. Poland is 83% Christian today. Stable economy, no migration crisis, low crime. There's your sign.

http://country-facts.findthedata.com...

Lower GDP per capita by a huge margin. Lower growth. Higher unemployment. Uneven gender ratio. Low birth rates. The problem with Poland is people want to leave the country because of the poor economic conditions moving to wealthier countries with higher wages such as Sweden.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/11/2016 9:21:38 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 5:37:30 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/10/2016 8:15:44 AM, Brushfire wrote:
Assuming that the god and devil of the bible exists. What if god let the devil create a book about god called the bible that was riddled with lies. And only those who could see that the book was wrong and its teachings immoral would pass the test and go to heaven after they have died, and those who believe that it was the truth would be punished for falling to the devils tricks.

I thought it's an interesting look at the subject. Thoughts?

Hmmm" I don"t think there is any lie in the Bible. Can you say one example of Biblical lie? Bible teaches for example to love others. Is that wrong or false?

The genesis creation account is a lie. It claims that plants existed before the sun.

1 In the beginning, when God created the universe,[a] 2 the earth was formless and desolate. The raging ocean that covered everything was engulfed in total darkness, and the Spirit of God[b] was moving over the water. 3 Then God commanded, "Let there be light""and light appeared. 4 God was pleased with what he saw. Then he separated the light from the darkness, 5 and he named the light "Day" and the darkness "Night." Evening passed and morning came"that was the first day.

6-7 Then God commanded, "Let there be a dome to divide the water and to keep it in two separate places""and it was done. So God made a dome, and it separated the water under it from the water above it. 8 He named the dome "Sky." Evening passed and morning came"that was the second day.

9 Then God commanded, "Let the water below the sky come together in one place, so that the land will appear""and it was done. 10 He named the land "Earth," and the water which had come together he named "Sea." And God was pleased with what he saw. 11 Then he commanded, "Let the earth produce all kinds of plants, those that bear grain and those that bear fruit""and it was done. 12 So the earth produced all kinds of plants, and God was pleased with what he saw. 13 Evening passed and morning came"that was the third day.

14 Then God commanded, "Let lights appear in the sky to separate day from night and to show the time when days, years, and religious festivals[c] begin; 15 they will shine in the sky to give light to the earth""and it was done. 16 So God made the two larger lights, the sun to rule over the day and the moon to rule over the night; he also made the stars. 17 He placed the lights in the sky to shine on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God was pleased with what he saw. 19 Evening passed and morning came"that was the fourth day.

20 Then God commanded, "Let the water be filled with many kinds of living beings, and let the air be filled with birds." 21 So God created the great sea monsters, all kinds of creatures that live in the water, and all kinds of birds. And God was pleased with what he saw. 22 He blessed them all and told the creatures that live in the water to reproduce and to fill the sea, and he told the birds to increase in number. 23 Evening passed and morning came"that was the fifth day.

24 Then God commanded, "Let the earth produce all kinds of animal life: domestic and wild, large and small""and it was done. 25 So God made them all, and he was pleased with what he saw.

26 Then God said, "And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us. They will have power over the fish, the birds, and all animals, domestic and wild,[d] large and small." 27 So God created human beings, making them to be like himself. He created them male and female, 28 blessed them, and said, "Have many children, so that your descendants will live all over the earth and bring it under their control. I am putting you in charge of the fish, the birds, and all the wild animals. 29 I have provided all kinds of grain and all kinds of fruit for you to eat; 30 but for all the wild animals and for all the birds I have provided grass and leafy plants for food""and it was done. 31 God looked at everything he had made, and he was very pleased. Evening passed and morning came"that was the sixth day.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.