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Islam and kindness to parents.

lightseeker
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7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/13/2016 7:24:09 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 6:39:33 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
You need a religion and a religious book to teach you this
Be kind to your parents. ?

Depends on your definition of kindness. in islam kindness to parents is an absolute and parents have a very especial place in Islamic teachings. And looking at western societies and the coldness of people towards their parents, makes it more clear that a guideline is required.
Looncall
Posts: 442
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7/13/2016 7:37:37 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

How about kindness to children, eh? Not much evidence for that under islam (forced marriages, FGM, honour killings, acid thrown on schoolchildren ...).
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/13/2016 7:55:38 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 7:37:37 PM, Looncall wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

How about kindness to children, eh? Not much evidence for that under islam (forced marriages, FGM, honour killings, acid thrown on schoolchildren ...).

Sure, after this I will create a topic about kindness to children according to Islam and I will answer your questions there if you'd like.

But in Islam you can't force your daughter to marriage. Its against the rules of Islam. Honour killing and acid throwing is not in Islam and if you think it is you should prove it. And as for fgm, I have to do some research first, but as far as I know that practice existed before Islam and is not actually done is my country. Islam definitely didn't introduce it.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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7/13/2016 8:43:19 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 7:24:09 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:39:33 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
You need a religion and a religious book to teach you this
Be kind to your parents. ?

Depends on your definition of kindness. in islam kindness to parents is an absolute and parents have a very especial place in Islamic teachings. And looking at western societies and the coldness of people towards their parents, makes it more clear that a guideline is required.

We are not robots. Why should everyone have the same type of emotions? Some people are just cold, including me being a A-romantic and some other traits that makes me cold to affection. I don't understand affection, i am cold to it... it is just who i am. Yeah, my family doesn't like it bc they are much more affectionate than i am. They want it, they want hugs, and affirmations - i just can't. It is not who i am. Of course, it bugs them... but it is my family which has 'sorta' figured me out. They still don't like it but they see the only two ways i show affection... quality time and gifts. I will buy them the most thoughtful gifts any can.. i will remember them, 10 years ago, asking for something simple that no one would expect remembered, but i do. However, giving gifts is also hard for me... it feels cheesy. So, ultimately, the way i show kindness or affection to its fullest is if i hang around. If i go to an event, if i am myself around them. This is a hard way to show affection or kindness bc in essence it is selfish too... i am just doing my own thing. But, trust me, if i didn't like you or someone, i won't stay around. I would leave and you'd never see me again. This is even cold, for i can detach very easily bc i do not have the typical emotions that makes one affectionate. However, i am kind through my actions. Although sometimes i can come off cold and judging... i do it for the best interest of the person. For instance, i make fun of my parents when they think going outside when it is cold will get you sick. For the most part it doesn't, i am sure you know germs do... but, they still think old school and i will come down on my parents cold and judging. Now, if i didn't love them, i would let them go around and make a fool of themselves. But, since i love them... i am cold. I would be impressed if your Koran can justify the psychology behind my actions... i doubt it gets as deep as human psychology. It may however, for human psychology can be observed. I just don't know how you would account for someone of my type of empathy or emotion.
SalFactoR
Posts: 17
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7/13/2016 9:22:48 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 8:43:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/13/2016 7:24:09 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:39:33 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
You need a religion and a religious book to teach you this
Be kind to your parents. ?

Depends on your definition of kindness. in islam kindness to parents is an absolute and parents have a very especial place in Islamic teachings. And looking at western societies and the coldness of people towards their parents, makes it more clear that a guideline is required.

We are not robots. Why should everyone have the same type of emotions? Some people are just cold, including me being a A-romantic and some other traits that makes me cold to affection. I don't understand affection, i am cold to it... it is just who i am. Yeah, my family doesn't like it bc they are much more affectionate than i am. They want it, they want hugs, and affirmations - i just can't. It is not who i am. Of course, it bugs them... but it is my family which has 'sorta' figured me out. They still don't like it but they see the only two ways i show affection... quality time and gifts. I will buy them the most thoughtful gifts any can.. i will remember them, 10 years ago, asking for something simple that no one would expect remembered, but i do. However, giving gifts is also hard for me... it feels cheesy. So, ultimately, the way i show kindness or affection to its fullest is if i hang around. If i go to an event, if i am myself around them. This is a hard way to show affection or kindness bc in essence it is selfish too... i am just doing my own thing. But, trust me, if i didn't like you or someone, i won't stay around. I would leave and you'd never see me again. This is even cold, for i can detach very easily bc i do not have the typical emotions that makes one affectionate. However, i am kind through my actions. Although sometimes i can come off cold and judging... i do it for the best interest of the person. For instance, i make fun of my parents when they think going outside when it is cold will get you sick. For the most part it doesn't, i am sure you know germs do... but, they still think old school and i will come down on my parents cold and judging. Now, if i didn't love them, i would let them go around and make a fool of themselves. But, since i love them... i am cold. I would be impressed if your Koran can justify the psychology behind my actions... i doubt it gets as deep as human psychology. It may however, for human psychology can be observed. I just don't know how you would account for someone of my type of empathy or emotion.

Islam teaches you to suck it up, and kiss / hug ur mom while you still have her. Even if it feels cheesy for you, even if you feel awkward or uncomfortable doing it. She is your mom and she went through 9 months of carrying you, a debt you can never repay. So suck it up, and hug ur mom like its her last day on earth and kiss her. See how happy it makes her, it will be worth it.
You may regret it if you lose her.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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7/14/2016 1:17:39 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 9:22:48 PM, SalFactoR wrote:
At 7/13/2016 8:43:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/13/2016 7:24:09 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:39:33 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
You need a religion and a religious book to teach you this
Be kind to your parents. ?

Depends on your definition of kindness. in islam kindness to parents is an absolute and parents have a very especial place in Islamic teachings. And looking at western societies and the coldness of people towards their parents, makes it more clear that a guideline is required.

We are not robots. Why should everyone have the same type of emotions? Some people are just cold, including me being a A-romantic and some other traits that makes me cold to affection. I don't understand affection, i am cold to it... it is just who i am. Yeah, my family doesn't like it bc they are much more affectionate than i am. They want it, they want hugs, and affirmations - i just can't. It is not who i am. Of course, it bugs them... but it is my family which has 'sorta' figured me out. They still don't like it but they see the only two ways i show affection... quality time and gifts. I will buy them the most thoughtful gifts any can.. i will remember them, 10 years ago, asking for something simple that no one would expect remembered, but i do. However, giving gifts is also hard for me... it feels cheesy. So, ultimately, the way i show kindness or affection to its fullest is if i hang around. If i go to an event, if i am myself around them. This is a hard way to show affection or kindness bc in essence it is selfish too... i am just doing my own thing. But, trust me, if i didn't like you or someone, i won't stay around. I would leave and you'd never see me again. This is even cold, for i can detach very easily bc i do not have the typical emotions that makes one affectionate. However, i am kind through my actions. Although sometimes i can come off cold and judging... i do it for the best interest of the person. For instance, i make fun of my parents when they think going outside when it is cold will get you sick. For the most part it doesn't, i am sure you know germs do... but, they still think old school and i will come down on my parents cold and judging. Now, if i didn't love them, i would let them go around and make a fool of themselves. But, since i love them... i am cold. I would be impressed if your Koran can justify the psychology behind my actions... i doubt it gets as deep as human psychology. It may however, for human psychology can be observed. I just don't know how you would account for someone of my type of empathy or emotion.

Islam teaches you to suck it up, and kiss / hug ur mom while you still have her. Even if it feels cheesy for you, even if you feel awkward or uncomfortable doing it. She is your mom and she went through 9 months of carrying you, a debt you can never repay. So suck it up, and hug ur mom like its her last day on earth and kiss her. See how happy it makes her, it will be worth it.
You may regret it if you lose her.

This is true and i won't go against what you are saying bc you are right. It is a mental condition with me; i just don't have it in me... but, i still do show love as much as i can. My parents know and have come to understand this... But, you are right, sometimes i feel it is not enough if/when i loss them. My goal is to make sure they know i love them more than anything, and i think, they know even though sometimes they may doubt it themselves. I just show it in different ways, and it is hard for someone that needs love their own way. It is purely psychological. It just needs a little understanding and i am happy i am helping my family get wiser. I am pretty sure they know they mean the world to me - although my character is just a little more cold then the "lovey dovey" type.
lightseeker
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7/14/2016 6:55:02 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 8:43:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/13/2016 7:24:09 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:39:33 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
You need a religion and a religious book to teach you this
Be kind to your parents. ?

Depends on your definition of kindness. in islam kindness to parents is an absolute and parents have a very especial place in Islamic teachings. And looking at western societies and the coldness of people towards their parents, makes it more clear that a guideline is required.

We are not robots. Why should everyone have the same type of emotions? Some people are just cold, including me being a A-romantic and some other traits that makes me cold to affection. I don't understand affection, i am cold to it... it is just who i am. Yeah, my family doesn't like it bc they are much more affectionate than i am. They want it, they want hugs, and affirmations - i just can't. It is not who i am. Of course, it bugs them... but it is my family which has 'sorta' figured me out. They still don't like it but they see the only two ways i show affection... quality time and gifts. I will buy them the most thoughtful gifts any can.. i will remember them, 10 years ago, asking for something simple that no one would expect remembered, but i do. However, giving gifts is also hard for me... it feels cheesy. So, ultimately, the way i show kindness or affection to its fullest is if i hang around. If i go to an event, if i am myself around them. This is a hard way to show affection or kindness bc in essence it is selfish too... i am just doing my own thing. But, trust me, if i didn't like you or someone, i won't stay around. I would leave and you'd never see me again. This is even cold, for i can detach very easily bc i do not have the typical emotions that makes one affectionate. However, i am kind through my actions. Although sometimes i can come off cold and judging... i do it for the best interest of the person. For instance, i make fun of my parents when they think going outside when it is cold will get you sick. For the most part it doesn't, i am sure you know germs do... but, they still think old school and i will come down on my parents cold and judging. Now, if i didn't love them, i would let them go around and make a fool of themselves. But, since i love them... i am cold. I would be impressed if your Koran can justify the psychology behind my actions... i doubt it gets as deep as human psychology. It may however, for human psychology can be observed. I just don't know how you would account for someone of my type of empathy or emotion.

well kindness and emotions are two different things. you can be kind to people without actually being emotionally involved with them. and Islam orders Muslims to be kind to their parents. for example, Islam says that Muslims shouldn't allow their parents to express their needs to them, instead they should satisfy those needs if they identify them. if your father needs money, you shouldn't let him ask you for it, you should give it to him beforehand. if your mother is tired and can't work anymore, you shouldn't allow her to do the chores, you should help her out ...

and you know what, in Islam, it's said that if you want to acquire a specific characteristic or attribute, and you don't have it, just mimic it. if you want to become kind and you're not, mimic kindness. if you want to become emotional and you're not, mimic emotional people. do that for sometimes, and after a while, you'll find those characteristics developed in yourself as well. it's actually pretty high end stuff, and I think psychology has recently reached to this conclusion as well.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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7/14/2016 7:41:32 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 6:55:02 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 8:43:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/13/2016 7:24:09 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:39:33 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
You need a religion and a religious book to teach you this
Be kind to your parents. ?

Depends on your definition of kindness. in islam kindness to parents is an absolute and parents have a very especial place in Islamic teachings. And looking at western societies and the coldness of people towards their parents, makes it more clear that a guideline is required.

We are not robots. Why should everyone have the same type of emotions? Some people are just cold, including me being a A-romantic and some other traits that makes me cold to affection. I don't understand affection, i am cold to it... it is just who i am. Yeah, my family doesn't like it bc they are much more affectionate than i am. They want it, they want hugs, and affirmations - i just can't. It is not who i am. Of course, it bugs them... but it is my family which has 'sorta' figured me out. They still don't like it but they see the only two ways i show affection... quality time and gifts. I will buy them the most thoughtful gifts any can.. i will remember them, 10 years ago, asking for something simple that no one would expect remembered, but i do. However, giving gifts is also hard for me... it feels cheesy. So, ultimately, the way i show kindness or affection to its fullest is if i hang around. If i go to an event, if i am myself around them. This is a hard way to show affection or kindness bc in essence it is selfish too... i am just doing my own thing. But, trust me, if i didn't like you or someone, i won't stay around. I would leave and you'd never see me again. This is even cold, for i can detach very easily bc i do not have the typical emotions that makes one affectionate. However, i am kind through my actions. Although sometimes i can come off cold and judging... i do it for the best interest of the person. For instance, i make fun of my parents when they think going outside when it is cold will get you sick. For the most part it doesn't, i am sure you know germs do... but, they still think old school and i will come down on my parents cold and judging. Now, if i didn't love them, i would let them go around and make a fool of themselves. But, since i love them... i am cold. I would be impressed if your Koran can justify the psychology behind my actions... i doubt it gets as deep as human psychology. It may however, for human psychology can be observed. I just don't know how you would account for someone of my type of empathy or emotion.

well kindness and emotions are two different things. you can be kind to people without actually being emotionally involved with them. and Islam orders Muslims to be kind to their parents. for example, Islam says that Muslims shouldn't allow their parents to express their needs to them, instead they should satisfy those needs if they identify them. if your father needs money, you shouldn't let him ask you for it, you should give it to him beforehand. if your mother is tired and can't work anymore, you shouldn't allow her to do the chores, you should help her out ...

and you know what, in Islam, it's said that if you want to acquire a specific characteristic or attribute, and you don't have it, just mimic it. if you want to become kind and you're not, mimic kindness. if you want to become emotional and you're not, mimic emotional people. do that for sometimes, and after a while, you'll find those characteristics developed in yourself as well. it's actually pretty high end stuff, and I think psychology has recently reached to this conclusion as well.
Poor things need all these rules because they are taught not to think.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/14/2016 7:46:23 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 7:41:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/14/2016 6:55:02 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 8:43:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/13/2016 7:24:09 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:39:33 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
You need a religion and a religious book to teach you this
Be kind to your parents. ?

Depends on your definition of kindness. in islam kindness to parents is an absolute and parents have a very especial place in Islamic teachings. And looking at western societies and the coldness of people towards their parents, makes it more clear that a guideline is required.

We are not robots. Why should everyone have the same type of emotions? Some people are just cold, including me being a A-romantic and some other traits that makes me cold to affection. I don't understand affection, i am cold to it... it is just who i am. Yeah, my family doesn't like it bc they are much more affectionate than i am. They want it, they want hugs, and affirmations - i just can't. It is not who i am. Of course, it bugs them... but it is my family which has 'sorta' figured me out. They still don't like it but they see the only two ways i show affection... quality time and gifts. I will buy them the most thoughtful gifts any can.. i will remember them, 10 years ago, asking for something simple that no one would expect remembered, but i do. However, giving gifts is also hard for me... it feels cheesy. So, ultimately, the way i show kindness or affection to its fullest is if i hang around. If i go to an event, if i am myself around them. This is a hard way to show affection or kindness bc in essence it is selfish too... i am just doing my own thing. But, trust me, if i didn't like you or someone, i won't stay around. I would leave and you'd never see me again. This is even cold, for i can detach very easily bc i do not have the typical emotions that makes one affectionate. However, i am kind through my actions. Although sometimes i can come off cold and judging... i do it for the best interest of the person. For instance, i make fun of my parents when they think going outside when it is cold will get you sick. For the most part it doesn't, i am sure you know germs do... but, they still think old school and i will come down on my parents cold and judging. Now, if i didn't love them, i would let them go around and make a fool of themselves. But, since i love them... i am cold. I would be impressed if your Koran can justify the psychology behind my actions... i doubt it gets as deep as human psychology. It may however, for human psychology can be observed. I just don't know how you would account for someone of my type of empathy or emotion.

well kindness and emotions are two different things. you can be kind to people without actually being emotionally involved with them. and Islam orders Muslims to be kind to their parents. for example, Islam says that Muslims shouldn't allow their parents to express their needs to them, instead they should satisfy those needs if they identify them. if your father needs money, you shouldn't let him ask you for it, you should give it to him beforehand. if your mother is tired and can't work anymore, you shouldn't allow her to do the chores, you should help her out ...

and you know what, in Islam, it's said that if you want to acquire a specific characteristic or attribute, and you don't have it, just mimic it. if you want to become kind and you're not, mimic kindness. if you want to become emotional and you're not, mimic emotional people. do that for sometimes, and after a while, you'll find those characteristics developed in yourself as well. it's actually pretty high end stuff, and I think psychology has recently reached to this conclusion as well.
Poor things need all these rules because they are taught not to think.

care to prove?
Islam actually teaches Muslims to think, and gain knowledge. it's in Quran and Hadith.
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/14/2016 7:58:34 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/14/2016 8:04:10 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 7:58:34 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/14/2016 8:17:28 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:04:10 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 7:58:34 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.
Willows
Posts: 2,031
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7/14/2016 8:18:19 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

To you this may sound like words of wisdom however in today's modern society it just does not wash at all.
Times have moved on however the Quran has not. It is not acceptable to make children respect their parents by instilling fear into them that there will be retribution by some angry master if they don't. For that matter it is no longer acceptable to force children to fall to their knees and beholden to an idol.
There are many abusive parents inflicting physical and psychological abuse on their children and it is outmoded nonsense like this that gives them the excuse.
When will it become clear to some people that in today's civilised society it is not acceptable to command respect, it must be earned and not commanded by fear.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/14/2016 9:00:57 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:17:28 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:04:10 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 7:58:34 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.

I guess that would make me search those teachings more closely and/or make me doubt Quran.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/14/2016 9:15:50 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:18:19 AM, Willows wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

To you this may sound like words of wisdom however in today's modern society it just does not wash at all.
Times have moved on however the Quran has not. It is not acceptable to make children respect their parents by instilling fear into them that there will be retribution by some angry master if they don't. For that matter it is no longer acceptable to force children to fall to their knees and beholden to an idol.
There are many abusive parents inflicting physical and psychological abuse on their children and it is outmoded nonsense like this that gives them the excuse.
When will it become clear to some people that in today's civilised society it is not acceptable to command respect, it must be earned and not commanded by fear.

there are things that we force ourselves or our children to do, no matter the hardship and struggle that we might go through. for example, we force our children to go to school almost every day, because we know that that will bring them freedom and joy later in life. we force them to vaccinate, even though they don't like it. we force them to stay away from harmful friendships, even though they might like it. we force them to study, to stay away from drugs ....
these hardships we make our children go through, are to make them stronger and more fit for the upcoming future.

Islam also does the same thing. Islam orders us to be kind to our parents, to do prayer, to pay Zakat, to fast, to take care of our relatives ...
these are things that can benefit us in this life and the next.

kindness towards one's parent is one of those things. it benefits us in this life and the next. in this life, it will strengthen the structure of family, teaches our children the respect towards the elderly, and will ultimately make our children respect us and treat us with kindness, as we've treated our parents with kindness. also living in a kind and friendly setting, will cause you to have a longer and more rewarding life. and in the afterlife, it will be a tool to get us closer to heaven.
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/14/2016 9:45:02 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 9:00:57 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:17:28 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:04:10 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 7:58:34 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.

I guess that would make me search those teachings more closely and/or make me doubt Quran.

But presumably you would still treat your parents with kindness, correct?
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/14/2016 9:58:26 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 9:45:02 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:00:57 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:17:28 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:04:10 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 7:58:34 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.

I guess that would make me search those teachings more closely and/or make me doubt Quran.

But presumably you would still treat your parents with kindness, correct?

Islam teaches people to treat their parents with kindness whether they're nice or not. If kindness is based on emotions then you'd have things that you see in west: many parents are abandoned by their children and/or are sent away to live the rest of their lives In elderly care homes.

Islam teaches the kind of kindness which is based on rules. Not the one which is based on emotions. Tough also give tools to purify and strengthen one's emotions.

If Islam didnt teach me that I would have emotional kindness, which may or may not exist.
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/14/2016 10:07:22 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 9:58:26 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:45:02 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:00:57 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:17:28 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:04:10 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 7:58:34 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.

I guess that would make me search those teachings more closely and/or make me doubt Quran.

But presumably you would still treat your parents with kindness, correct?

Islam teaches people to treat their parents with kindness whether they're nice or not. If kindness is based on emotions then you'd have things that you see in west: many parents are abandoned by their children and/or are sent away to live the rest of their lives In elderly care homes.

Islam teaches the kind of kindness which is based on rules. Not the one which is based on emotions. Tough also give tools to purify and strengthen one's emotions.

If Islam didnt teach me that I would have emotional kindness, which may or may not exist.
Ok, but I am not asking you about what the Quran teaches. I am merely posing a simple thought experiment. Would you still be kind to your parents if the Quran told you to be cruel?
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/14/2016 2:08:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 10:07:22 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:58:26 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:45:02 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:00:57 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:17:28 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:04:10 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 7:58:34 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.

I guess that would make me search those teachings more closely and/or make me doubt Quran.

But presumably you would still treat your parents with kindness, correct?

Islam teaches people to treat their parents with kindness whether they're nice or not. If kindness is based on emotions then you'd have things that you see in west: many parents are abandoned by their children and/or are sent away to live the rest of their lives In elderly care homes.

Islam teaches the kind of kindness which is based on rules. Not the one which is based on emotions. Tough also give tools to purify and strengthen one's emotions.

If Islam didnt teach me that I would have emotional kindness, which may or may not exist.
Ok, but I am not asking you about what the Quran teaches. I am merely posing a simple thought experiment. Would you still be kind to your parents if the Quran told you to be cruel?

if Quran or any book that is supposed to be word of God, were illogical, I wouldn't believe or accept it. I mean i wouldn't accept that book to be word of God. because after all, words of God can't be illogical or wrong.
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/14/2016 5:12:09 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:08:45 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 10:07:22 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:58:26 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:45:02 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:00:57 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:17:28 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:04:10 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 7:58:34 AM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.

I guess that would make me search those teachings more closely and/or make me doubt Quran.

But presumably you would still treat your parents with kindness, correct?

Islam teaches people to treat their parents with kindness whether they're nice or not. If kindness is based on emotions then you'd have things that you see in west: many parents are abandoned by their children and/or are sent away to live the rest of their lives In elderly care homes.

Islam teaches the kind of kindness which is based on rules. Not the one which is based on emotions. Tough also give tools to purify and strengthen one's emotions.

If Islam didnt teach me that I would have emotional kindness, which may or may not exist.
Ok, but I am not asking you about what the Quran teaches. I am merely posing a simple thought experiment. Would you still be kind to your parents if the Quran told you to be cruel?

if Quran or any book that is supposed to be word of God, were illogical, I wouldn't believe or accept it. I mean i wouldn't accept that book to be word of God. because after all, words of God can't be illogical or wrong.

Very good. So it sounds like (1) you would treat your parents kindly irrespective of what the Quran says, and (2) your knowledge of moral behavior does not come from the Quran, rather you measure the Quran against your own logic and moral reasoning. Congratulations, you just passed secular morality 101.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/14/2016 5:45:38 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.

I guess that would make me search those teachings more closely and/or make me doubt Quran.

But presumably you would still treat your parents with kindness, correct?

Islam teaches people to treat their parents with kindness whether they're nice or not. If kindness is based on emotions then you'd have things that you see in west: many parents are abandoned by their children and/or are sent away to live the rest of their lives In elderly care homes.

Islam teaches the kind of kindness which is based on rules. Not the one which is based on emotions. Tough also give tools to purify and strengthen one's emotions.

If Islam didnt teach me that I would have emotional kindness, which may or may not exist.
Ok, but I am not asking you about what the Quran teaches. I am merely posing a simple thought experiment. Would you still be kind to your parents if the Quran told you to be cruel?

if Quran or any book that is supposed to be word of God, were illogical, I wouldn't believe or accept it. I mean i wouldn't accept that book to be word of God. because after all, words of God can't be illogical or wrong.

Very good. So it sounds like (1) you would treat your parents kindly irrespective of what the Quran says, and (2) your knowledge of moral behavior does not come from the Quran, rather you measure the Quran against your own logic and moral reasoning. Congratulations, you just passed secular morality 101.

I knew you'd bring it to this conclusion. but as I said, being kind because of your emotions, is not what Islam orders Muslims to do. Islam says be kind, whether you like it or not. and has very specific orders for this. otherwise, since one's emotions change, one's attitude towards one's parent will also changer. that's why your so called secular morality which doesn't have a solid base, will not be able to lead people to anything good. I mean that's the same morality that allowed slavery, burning countries, killing innocents, dropping nukes, supporting terrorism, ...
also I measured Quran against my logic and moral reasoning, and found them perfectly in match. also Quran is a book that no one can bring anything similar to it. Quran challenges people to help each other and bring something similar to even one surah of it. but after 1400 years, no one has been able to.
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/14/2016 8:08:12 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 5:45:38 PM, lightseeker wrote:
"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.

I guess that would make me search those teachings more closely and/or make me doubt Quran.

But presumably you would still treat your parents with kindness, correct?

Islam teaches people to treat their parents with kindness whether they're nice or not. If kindness is based on emotions then you'd have things that you see in west: many parents are abandoned by their children and/or are sent away to live the rest of their lives In elderly care homes.

Islam teaches the kind of kindness which is based on rules. Not the one which is based on emotions. Tough also give tools to purify and strengthen one's emotions.

If Islam didnt teach me that I would have emotional kindness, which may or may not exist.
Ok, but I am not asking you about what the Quran teaches. I am merely posing a simple thought experiment. Would you still be kind to your parents if the Quran told you to be cruel?

if Quran or any book that is supposed to be word of God, were illogical, I wouldn't believe or accept it. I mean i wouldn't accept that book to be word of God. because after all, words of God can't be illogical or wrong.

Very good. So it sounds like (1) you would treat your parents kindly irrespective of what the Quran says, and (2) your knowledge of moral behavior does not come from the Quran, rather you measure the Quran against your own logic and moral reasoning. Congratulations, you just passed secular morality 101.

I knew you'd bring it to this conclusion. but as I said, being kind because of your emotions, is not what Islam orders Muslims to do. Islam says be kind, whether you like it or not. and has very specific orders for this. otherwise, since one's emotions change, one's attitude towards one's parent will also changer. that's why your so called secular morality which doesn't have a solid base, will not be able to lead people to anything good. I mean that's the same morality that allowed slavery, burning countries, killing innocents, dropping nukes, supporting terrorism, ...
also I measured Quran against my logic and moral reasoning, and found them perfectly in match. also Quran is a book that no one can bring anything similar to it. Quran challenges people to help each other and bring something similar to even one surah of it. but after 1400 years, no one has been able to.

I will side step your "analysis" of secular morality and come back to my main point. If you truly viewed the Quran as an unamendable, unimpeachable, absolute authority, then you would've pledged to follow its orders even if those orders included cruelty and disdain towards one's parents. How dare we question the authority of almighty God! Instead, you admitted that you test the Quran against your own standards of moral reasoning, and if the Quran were to fall short of those standards, you would question its authority. So whether or not the Quran, in its current form, matches those standards, the point is that the Quran is not the true arbiter of your moral decision-making. Ergo, you do not get your morality from the Quran.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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7/14/2016 10:57:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 6:55:02 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 8:43:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/13/2016 7:24:09 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:39:33 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
You need a religion and a religious book to teach you this
Be kind to your parents. ?

Depends on your definition of kindness. in islam kindness to parents is an absolute and parents have a very especial place in Islamic teachings. And looking at western societies and the coldness of people towards their parents, makes it more clear that a guideline is required.

We are not robots. Why should everyone have the same type of emotions? Some people are just cold, including me being a A-romantic and some other traits that makes me cold to affection. I don't understand affection, i am cold to it... it is just who i am. Yeah, my family doesn't like it bc they are much more affectionate than i am. They want it, they want hugs, and affirmations - i just can't. It is not who i am. Of course, it bugs them... but it is my family which has 'sorta' figured me out. They still don't like it but they see the only two ways i show affection... quality time and gifts. I will buy them the most thoughtful gifts any can.. i will remember them, 10 years ago, asking for something simple that no one would expect remembered, but i do. However, giving gifts is also hard for me... it feels cheesy. So, ultimately, the way i show kindness or affection to its fullest is if i hang around. If i go to an event, if i am myself around them. This is a hard way to show affection or kindness bc in essence it is selfish too... i am just doing my own thing. But, trust me, if i didn't like you or someone, i won't stay around. I would leave and you'd never see me again. This is even cold, for i can detach very easily bc i do not have the typical emotions that makes one affectionate. However, i am kind through my actions. Although sometimes i can come off cold and judging... i do it for the best interest of the person. For instance, i make fun of my parents when they think going outside when it is cold will get you sick. For the most part it doesn't, i am sure you know germs do... but, they still think old school and i will come down on my parents cold and judging. Now, if i didn't love them, i would let them go around and make a fool of themselves. But, since i love them... i am cold. I would be impressed if your Koran can justify the psychology behind my actions... i doubt it gets as deep as human psychology. It may however, for human psychology can be observed. I just don't know how you would account for someone of my type of empathy or emotion.

well kindness and emotions are two different things. you can be kind to people without actually being emotionally involved with them. and Islam orders Muslims to be kind to their parents. for example, Islam says that Muslims shouldn't allow their parents to express their needs to them, instead they should satisfy those needs if they identify them. if your father needs money, you shouldn't let him ask you for it, you should give it to him beforehand. if your mother is tired and can't work anymore, you shouldn't allow her to do the chores, you should help her out ...

and you know what, in Islam, it's said that if you want to acquire a specific characteristic or attribute, and you don't have it, just mimic it. if you want to become kind and you're not, mimic kindness. if you want to become emotional and you're not, mimic emotional people. do that for sometimes, and after a while, you'll find those characteristics developed in yourself as well. it's actually pretty high end stuff, and I think psychology has recently reached to this conclusion as well.

I understand where you are coming from. You have also noticed that my kindness is still there, i think, but in a different way. That is how someone cold to certain emotions can still give kindness, by being there for those he/she loves... especially family. However, this isn't something too big... i didn't have to take any psychology courses to understand these things... i am just really good at reading people. I am sure my trait existed when the Koran was written as well - i am not surprised if a "book of morals" would get these things right. It is the same for the Bible, they have a lot of things right.

My argument isn't against the things that are right, my argument is calling a book flawless and the word of "god" (which is often characterized as perfect). These books, all holy books, are not perfect. They are not perfect to the point to say that everyone would read them the same. Not everyone will translate them the same... if anything, that in-itself is a major flaw that should show the fallibility of religious text. The problem of organized religion is arrogance and being hard-headed. Pride, selfishness, and other negative emotions that humans hold are also in play. Why? Purely for one reason. The religious can't drop their label. Why not just say you are spiritual and you get most of your guidance through the Koran? I only say this to respect where you are getting your information, and wouldn't want you to change... but, someone like me... free of any label... i can say i get my spirituality from all religion. You have no idea how free that feels when you figure it out.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,576
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7/14/2016 11:24:38 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

There's no reason to care what Muhammad has ordained, we can understand mercy, tolerance and respect far better than he did. The Quran actually promotes intolerance, disrespect and hatred towards others. It's a barbaric holy book like so many others.

Toss it in the garbage and free your mind.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/15/2016 1:43:03 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:08:12 PM, Axon85 wrote:
At 7/14/2016 5:45:38 PM, lightseeker wrote:
"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

Suppose, purely for the sake of argument, that the Quran did not say these things. Suppose instead the Quran taught cruelty and disrespect towards one's parents. How would you act then?

so you're basically saying that Quran might teach us something that is against common sense and logic? and if that's the case we would follow Quran instead of common sense? if you've found such a thing in Quran, please share it with us.
i

No, I am not referring to anything actually written in the Quran. Just a thought experiment.

I guess that would make me search those teachings more closely and/or make me doubt Quran.

But presumably you would still treat your parents with kindness, correct?

Islam teaches people to treat their parents with kindness whether they're nice or not. If kindness is based on emotions then you'd have things that you see in west: many parents are abandoned by their children and/or are sent away to live the rest of their lives In elderly care homes.

Islam teaches the kind of kindness which is based on rules. Not the one which is based on emotions. Tough also give tools to purify and strengthen one's emotions.

If Islam didnt teach me that I would have emotional kindness, which may or may not exist.
Ok, but I am not asking you about what the Quran teaches. I am merely posing a simple thought experiment. Would you still be kind to your parents if the Quran told you to be cruel?

if Quran or any book that is supposed to be word of God, were illogical, I wouldn't believe or accept it. I mean i wouldn't accept that book to be word of God. because after all, words of God can't be illogical or wrong.

Very good. So it sounds like (1) you would treat your parents kindly irrespective of what the Quran says, and (2) your knowledge of moral behavior does not come from the Quran, rather you measure the Quran against your own logic and moral reasoning. Congratulations, you just passed secular morality 101.

I knew you'd bring it to this conclusion. but as I said, being kind because of your emotions, is not what Islam orders Muslims to do. Islam says be kind, whether you like it or not. and has very specific orders for this. otherwise, since one's emotions change, one's attitude towards one's parent will also changer. that's why your so called secular morality which doesn't have a solid base, will not be able to lead people to anything good. I mean that's the same morality that allowed slavery, burning countries, killing innocents, dropping nukes, supporting terrorism, ...
also I measured Quran against my logic and moral reasoning, and found them perfectly in match. also Quran is a book that no one can bring anything similar to it. Quran challenges people to help each other and bring something similar to even one surah of it. but after 1400 years, no one has been able to.

I will side step your "analysis" of secular morality and come back to my main point. If you truly viewed the Quran as an unamendable, unimpeachable, absolute authority, then you would've pledged to follow its orders even if those orders included cruelty and disdain towards one's parents. How dare we question the authority of almighty God! Instead, you admitted that you test the Quran against your own standards of moral reasoning, and if the Quran were to fall short of those standards, you would question its authority. So whether or not the Quran, in its current form, matches those standards, the point is that the Quran is not the true arbiter of your moral decision-making. Ergo, you do not get your morality from the Quran.

the God that has placed morality in our hearts, is the same God that has send Quran. therefor they do match perfectly. it's actually one of the reasons that prove Quran is the word of God, because it doesn't go against anything which is moral of logical.
also, Islam doesn't allow us to just accept without questioning and doing our own research. I mean Muslims have to at least think about principles of faith on their own and reach to them. and according to Quran, one of the reasons many of the people go to hell, is because they don't think and don't use their wisdom.
and because I've studied Quran I've come to realize that it's the word of God, therefor I'll do as it says.
like when you're sick and you're looking for a good doctor, and after doing some research you find the one that's best in the field and you follow his words without questioning it any further. now if you knew that God himself has sent you a receipt, would you not take it?
I question the things that I can know, to find out about the truth and strengthen my understanding.
lightseeker
Posts: 1,021
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7/15/2016 1:49:34 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 11:24:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

There's no reason to care what Muhammad has ordained, we can understand mercy, tolerance and respect far better than he did.
as your history shows ?
like killing tens of millions of Indians and taking their lands?
or transporting people to that land and using them and their children and their children's children as slaves ?
or dropping nuclear bombs or napalm bombs on civilians?

The Quran actually promotes intolerance, disrespect and hatred towards others. It's a barbaric holy book like so many others.
Toss it in the garbage and free your mind.
the kind of freedom that has allowed you to visit nude beaches frequently (as you've said) and peek on women?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,576
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7/15/2016 5:52:01 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 1:49:34 AM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/14/2016 11:24:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/13/2016 6:13:13 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Islam is a religion that stresses the qualities of mercy, tolerance and respect. God has ordained the good treatment of parents and warned us against treating them with disrespect. There are several verses in the Quran where kindness to parents is even coupled with the most important aspect of Islam, worshiping God alone. This indicates that being kind to parents, honoring and respecting them, is extremely important in the way of life that is Islam. in this topic, some of the verses of Quran, and also some of the Hadiths that stress this importance are gathered.

1 - Quran

"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour." (Quran 17:23)

"And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."" (Quran 17:24)

"And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination." (Quran 31:14)

"But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do." (Quran 31:15)

2- Hadith

"Goodness towards (one"s) parents is the greatest obligatory act."

"One who pleases his parents has verily pleased Allah, and one who has angered his parents has verily angered Allah."

"One who is obedient towards his parents and his Lord shall be accommodated in the most exalted of places on the Day of Judgment."

"Travel even for two years to do good to your parents. Journey (even) for one year to establish bonds of kinship (with your relatives)."

"One who desires a long life and an increase in livelihood should exhibit goodness towards his parents and establish bonds of kinship (with his relatives)."

"Be good towards your parents and your children will be good towards you. (And) Look upon the womenfolk of others with purity (in conduct and intention) and your womenfolk will be looked upon with purity."

a person once asked the Messenger of Allah: "What are the rights of the father upon the son?" The Noble Prophet replied: "He should not call his father by name, he should not walk ahead of him, he should not sit until his father has seated himself and he should not do such acts as a result of which people abuse his father."

"The look of a child towards his parents out of love for them is an act of worship."

"Every righteous child who casts a look of mercy and affection upon his parents shall be granted, for every look of his, rewards equivalent to that of an accepted Hajj."

"Being good to them (parents) (which is a verse in Quran) means to accompany them in a good manner and never to wait for them to ask you for what they need."

"There are three things which Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious has not permitted anyone to forsake: returning a trust to its owner, irrespective of whether he is a good person or an evil one; fulfilling one"s promises and covenants, irrespective of whether it has been made to a good person or an evil one; being good and kind towards one"s parents, irrespective of whether they are good or evil."

"Whoever visits the graves of his parents or one of them every Friday, Allah shall forgive his sins and shall regard him to be of those who had been kind to his parents."

https://www.al-islam.org...

There's no reason to care what Muhammad has ordained, we can understand mercy, tolerance and respect far better than he did.
as your history shows ?
like killing tens of millions of Indians and taking their lands?

Like the millions killed in the Islamic Conquests and honor killings today.

or transporting people to that land and using them and their children and their children's children as slaves ?

As did Muslims. The difference is that the slave trade has been abolished here, while the Islamic slave trade prospers.

or dropping nuclear bombs or napalm bombs on civilians?

That's war. Islamic wars have been bloody, as well.

The Quran actually promotes intolerance, disrespect and hatred towards others. It's a barbaric holy book like so many others.
Toss it in the garbage and free your mind.
the kind of freedom that has allowed you to visit nude beaches frequently (as you've said) and peek on women?

Adults don't talk like that, you are a foolish child.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
loveymore
Posts: 64
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7/15/2016 7:28:42 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
There are surely interesting things,

Yet starting up fights, or inclining to them, if you don't need to, I am not saying who is doing what.

How does one show kindness to his parents, if he act like that? Is it not the opposite?