Total Posts:11|Showing Posts:1-11
Jump to topic:

Is intuition a reasonable basis for belief?

Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Can we trust that our intuitions are correct?

The most reasonable answer is that sometimes we can and sometimes we can't.

How is "intuition" properly defined? In the most concise sense, I think intuition can be defined as apprehended knowledge. "Apprehended" meaning innately granted.

How does one separate knowledge from belief? Are the two necessarily mutually exclusive? I don't think so.

Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?
janesix
Posts: 3,465
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 1:14:00 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Can we trust that our intuitions are correct?

The most reasonable answer is that sometimes we can and sometimes we can't.

How is "intuition" properly defined? In the most concise sense, I think intuition can be defined as apprehended knowledge. "Apprehended" meaning innately granted.

How does one separate knowleqdge from belief? Are the two necessarily mutually exclusive? I don't think so.

Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?

Intuition is a subconscious way of knowing, as we are all subconsciously connected to the rest of the universe in ways we dont understand. But intuitive understanding may not always be correct, as our understanding is filtered trough our preconcieved beliefs which may or may not be correct.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 1:30:09 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?

If belief is recognised by action committed to a conjectured prediction, and we view intuition as a tacit but untested understanding of acquired information, then surely it depends on the quality of the information, the relevant accuracy of the prediction, and the risk of the action.

For example, if I've caught a ball thousands of times, yet never caught a coconut, it might be reasonable for me to try to catch a coconut too. After all, the systems are very similar, I'm accurate in similar predictions, and the likely cost of failing is only that I might drop it

But if I've never seen a universe created, but only seen cakes made... and I try to convince others that since only bakers can make cakes, only an artisan divinity can create a universe, and good bakers don't let cakes burn, so you can walk through fire calling out to the Divine Baker for aid and be safe...

Well that's a different story, isn't it? In the second case, I'm reaching wildly beyond tested information, there's serious risk involved and I have no idea about my predictive accuracy. I really need to systematically test my predictions before advising people to act on them.

Else I'm a vain, ignorant, irresponsible lout. :D
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 1:46:52 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 1:30:09 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?

If belief is recognised by action committed to a conjectured prediction, and we view intuition as a tacit but untested understanding of acquired information, then surely it depends on the quality of the information, the relevant accuracy of the prediction, and the risk of the action.

For example, if I've caught a ball thousands of times, yet never caught a coconut, it might be reasonable for me to try to catch a coconut too. After all, the systems are very similar, I'm accurate in similar predictions, and the likely cost of failing is only that I might drop it

But if I've never seen a universe created, but only seen cakes made... and I try to convince others that since only bakers can make cakes, only an artisan divinity can create a universe, and good bakers don't let cakes burn, so you can walk through fire calling out to the Divine Baker for aid and be safe...

Well that's a different story, isn't it? In the second case, I'm reaching wildly beyond tested information, there's serious risk involved and I have no idea about my predictive accuracy. I really need to systematically test my predictions before advising people to act on them.

Else I'm a vain, ignorant, irresponsible lout. :D

If we can't test the subject of our conjecture can we really not advise people to act on it?

Here are five rational beliefs that cannot be proven by science according to William Lane Craig:

Logical and mathematical truths cannot be proven by science. Science presupposes logic and math; to try to prove them by science would be arguing in a circle.

Metaphysical truths such as that there are other minds other than my own or that the external world is real or that the past wasn"t created five minutes ago with the appearance of age.

Ethical beliefs about statements of value are not accessible by the scientific method. You can"t show by science whether the Nazi scientists did anything in the camps that is evil as opposed to the scientists in western democracies.

Aesthetic judgments cannot be accessed by the scientific method because the beautiful, like the good, cannot be scientifically proven.

Science itself. Science cannot be justified by the scientific method. Science is permeated by improvable assumptions. For example, in the special theory of relativity, the whole theory hinges on the assumption that the speed of light is constant in a one-way direction from point A to point B, it must be assumed.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 1:48:44 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 1:14:00 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Can we trust that our intuitions are correct?

The most reasonable answer is that sometimes we can and sometimes we can't.

How is "intuition" properly defined? In the most concise sense, I think intuition can be defined as apprehended knowledge. "Apprehended" meaning innately granted.

How does one separate knowleqdge from belief? Are the two necessarily mutually exclusive? I don't think so.

Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?

Intuition is a subconscious way of knowing, as we are all subconsciously connected to the rest of the universe in ways we dont understand. But intuitive understanding may not always be correct, as our understanding is filtered trough our preconcieved beliefs which may or may not be correct.

I agree!
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 2:08:28 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Can we trust that our intuitions are correct?

The most reasonable answer is that sometimes we can and sometimes we can't.

How is "intuition" properly defined? In the most concise sense, I think intuition can be defined as apprehended knowledge. "Apprehended" meaning innately granted.

How does one separate knowledge from belief? Are the two necessarily mutually exclusive? I don't think so.

Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?

To this point in my life, my intuition has probably been in the 90%-tile of accuracy - maybe even higher bc i am trying not to say 100%. But, I really can't remember the last time it was wrong. However, it is weird at this point how it works for me bc i understand the elements that would make it something else... like confirmation bias. In such cases, i ignore it and understand that i feel the way i do bc of the environment i have grown in / how i have grown.

The times it is right is pretty intense and a major reason i do not shy away from the possibility of spirituality. I am a perpetual doubter at the same time, but it doesn't matter, when it happens it happens. I can even describe it. For instance, with women... i get this weird sense of being turned on. This doesn't happen to every women, but so far, to the ones i have felt this way... i haven't been wrong in their attraction towards me. Then there is when bad things are going to happen (which is the strongest). It's like i am connected to the people i care for bc i almost always feel it when it is close to home or affecting me. The feeling i get is a hint of anxiousness, but the part that's really weird is a sense of the world around me closing. It is hard to explain, almost like an anxious tunnel vision. Sometimes, it is so strong that it becomes hard for me to talk. Unfortunately, whenever i get this feeling something bad happens.

I can wright you a novel right now if i explained all the experiences in which my intuition played a role. I don't understand it. It doesn't happen all the time, which is also weird. It happens either perfectly or too perfectly (which i don't like). I hate it and now, i have come to maybe minimize it bc i don't want to feel these things. It sucks when i feel the "bad" vibes and something bad happens. It ruins my whole day. In some ways, it is very helpful... like when i was a seller at a certain point. I was top seller in my state (Cali) - a big state. I attribute all of it to my intuition. I just knew how people felt as soon as i would hear them talk.

I don't know. This could be due to many things. Maybe i just read people well. Maybe i have coincidentally gotten lucky with coincidence. maybe i am just lucky or approachable. But, what i know is... at least, if a scientist was able to see the world i have seen so far, through my eyes, they would not only be curious, they would understand why i still say i am spiritual.

I have asked my uncle that is a neurologist, how something like this can be tested. There really isn't a way yet, other than tracking my mind. But... sometimes things happen a couple times, and sometimes don't happen again for a year or more. You wouldn't be able to track that unless i made myself a test puppet for the rest of my life - gadgets attached to my head and all. There really isn't an answer until we figure out the human brain more. All i know is, there is no way one person can go through as many coincidences that i have. And why me? idk, bc i would rather it not be me maybe... or, i am just that lucky idk.
janesix
Posts: 3,465
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 2:16:40 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:08:28 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Can we trust that our intuitions are correct?

The most reasonable answer is that sometimes we can and sometimes we can't.

How is "intuition" properly defined? In the most concise sense, I think intuition can be defined as apprehended knowledge. "Apprehended" meaning innately granted.

How does one separate knowledge from belief? Are the two necessarily mutually exclusive? I don't think so.

Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?

To this point in my life, my intuition has probably been in the 90%-tile of accuracy - maybe even higher bc i am trying not to say 100%. But, I really can't remember the last time it was wrong. However, it is weird at this point how it works for me bc i understand the elements that would make it something else... like confirmation bias. In such cases, i ignore it and understand that i feel the way i do bc of the environment i have grown in / how i have grown.

The times it is right is pretty intense and a major reason i do not shy away from the possibility of spirituality. I am a perpetual doubter at the same time, but it doesn't matter, when it happens it happens. I can even describe it. For instance, with women... i get this weird sense of being turned on. This doesn't happen to every women, but so far, to the ones i have felt this way... i haven't been wrong in their attraction towards me. Then there is when bad things are going to happen (which is the strongest). It's like i am connected to the people i care for bc i almost always feel it when it is close to home or affecting me. The feeling i get is a hint of anxiousness, but the part that's really weird is a sense of the world around me closing. It is hard to explain, almost like an anxious tunnel vision. Sometimes, it is so strong that it becomes hard for me to talk. Unfortunately, whenever i get this feeling something bad happens.

I can wright you a novel right now if i explained all the experiences in which my intuition played a role. I don't understand it. It doesn't happen all the time, which is also weird. It happens either perfectly or too perfectly (which i don't like). I hate it and now, i have come to maybe minimize it bc i don't want to feel these things. It sucks when i feel the "bad" vibes and something bad happens. It ruins my whole day. In some ways, it is very helpful... like when i was a seller at a certain point. I was top seller in my state (Cali) - a big state. I attribute all of it to my intuition. I just knew how people felt as soon as i would hear them talk.

I don't know. This could be due to many things. Maybe i just read people well. Maybe i have coincidentally gotten lucky with coincidence. maybe i am just lucky or approachable. But, what i know is... at least, if a scientist was able to see the world i have seen so far, through my eyes, they would not only be curious, they would understand why i still say i am spiritual.

I have asked my uncle that is a neurologist, how something like this can be tested. There really isn't a way yet, other than tracking my mind. But... sometimes things happen a couple times, and sometimes don't happen again for a year or more. You wouldn't be able to track that unless i made myself a test puppet for the rest of my life - gadgets attached to my head and all. There really isn't an answer until we figure out the human brain more. All i know is, there is no way one person can go through as many coincidences that i have. And why me? idk, bc i would rather it not be me maybe... or, i am just that lucky idk.

The coincidences sometimes disturb me, and it feels like the universe is playing mind games with me. Do you ever feel that way too?
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 2:30:49 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:16:40 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:08:28 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Can we trust that our intuitions are correct?

The most reasonable answer is that sometimes we can and sometimes we can't.

How is "intuition" properly defined? In the most concise sense, I think intuition can be defined as apprehended knowledge. "Apprehended" meaning innately granted.

How does one separate knowledge from belief? Are the two necessarily mutually exclusive? I don't think so.

Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?

To this point in my life, my intuition has probably been in the 90%-tile of accuracy - maybe even higher bc i am trying not to say 100%. But, I really can't remember the last time it was wrong. However, it is weird at this point how it works for me bc i understand the elements that would make it something else... like confirmation bias. In such cases, i ignore it and understand that i feel the way i do bc of the environment i have grown in / how i have grown.

The times it is right is pretty intense and a major reason i do not shy away from the possibility of spirituality. I am a perpetual doubter at the same time, but it doesn't matter, when it happens it happens. I can even describe it. For instance, with women... i get this weird sense of being turned on. This doesn't happen to every women, but so far, to the ones i have felt this way... i haven't been wrong in their attraction towards me. Then there is when bad things are going to happen (which is the strongest). It's like i am connected to the people i care for bc i almost always feel it when it is close to home or affecting me. The feeling i get is a hint of anxiousness, but the part that's really weird is a sense of the world around me closing. It is hard to explain, almost like an anxious tunnel vision. Sometimes, it is so strong that it becomes hard for me to talk. Unfortunately, whenever i get this feeling something bad happens.

I can wright you a novel right now if i explained all the experiences in which my intuition played a role. I don't understand it. It doesn't happen all the time, which is also weird. It happens either perfectly or too perfectly (which i don't like). I hate it and now, i have come to maybe minimize it bc i don't want to feel these things. It sucks when i feel the "bad" vibes and something bad happens. It ruins my whole day. In some ways, it is very helpful... like when i was a seller at a certain point. I was top seller in my state (Cali) - a big state. I attribute all of it to my intuition. I just knew how people felt as soon as i would hear them talk.

I don't know. This could be due to many things. Maybe i just read people well. Maybe i have coincidentally gotten lucky with coincidence. maybe i am just lucky or approachable. But, what i know is... at least, if a scientist was able to see the world i have seen so far, through my eyes, they would not only be curious, they would understand why i still say i am spiritual.

I have asked my uncle that is a neurologist, how something like this can be tested. There really isn't a way yet, other than tracking my mind. But... sometimes things happen a couple times, and sometimes don't happen again for a year or more. You wouldn't be able to track that unless i made myself a test puppet for the rest of my life - gadgets attached to my head and all. There really isn't an answer until we figure out the human brain more. All i know is, there is no way one person can go through as many coincidences that i have. And why me? idk, bc i would rather it not be me maybe... or, i am just that lucky idk.

The coincidences sometimes disturb me, and it feels like the universe is playing mind games with me. Do you ever feel that way too?

Yes. I am trying my hardest, however, to not feel disturbed (which is why you will hear me say "i am cursed" many times in the past). Now, i think if i feel that way, it will follow that route (which thinking about it - did in my past). Just recently i have been walking around with the most positive feelings i think i have ever had. I feel grounded, confident, less (too) caring, and it seems like everything around me is now starting to follow that path with me. But, sometimes it does feel like a trick or test... like i know what will happen and try to go against it when i know the outcome wont follow the way i want to change it to; i am right even then to my dislike. Who knows, bc it is hard for me to describe all this... so many emotions are involved. I feel balancing these emotions is key, self confidence in life, and self confidence in the afterlife - even if you don't believe in an afterlife... just believe that you are you and can be as powerful as you make yourself. I have recently been following this mindset and feel more and more free everyday. I'll report back, so far... i already had an amazing experience that many men dream of... never happened before when i doubted, but i am trying to let go of doubt and just be my new identity, as positive as possible, every new day i am made here.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 2:45:59 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 1:46:52 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/14/2016 1:30:09 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?

If belief is recognised by action committed to a conjectured prediction, and we view intuition as a tacit but untested understanding of acquired information, then surely it depends on the quality of the information, the relevant accuracy of the prediction, and the risk of the action.

For example, if I've caught a ball thousands of times, yet never caught a coconut, it might be reasonable for me to try to catch a coconut too. After all, the systems are very similar, I'm accurate in similar predictions, and the likely cost of failing is only that I might drop it

But if I've never seen a universe created, but only seen cakes made... and I try to convince others that since only bakers can make cakes, only an artisan divinity can create a universe, and good bakers don't let cakes burn, so you can walk through fire calling out to the Divine Baker for aid and be safe...

Well that's a different story, isn't it? In the second case, I'm reaching wildly beyond tested information, there's serious risk involved and I have no idea about my predictive accuracy. I really need to systematically test my predictions before advising people to act on them.

Else I'm a vain, ignorant, irresponsible lout. :D

If we can't test the subject of our conjecture can we really not advise people to act on it?

Would you want a doctor to prescribe a dangerous drug in the mere hope it work, while telling you he knew it would?

If not, which professions would you accept lying to you or being willfully negligent? And if no professions, which responsible adults?

Here are five rational beliefs that cannot be proven by science according to William Lane Craig:

According to your attribution, Craig chose the word 'prove', but it's sufficient if knowledge is validated and verified, since we don't require people to be perfectly right, only honest, diligent and accountable.

So, did Craig seek to validate and verify his claims about epistemology? If so, by what methods, scrutinised by whom?

If not, isn't he guilty of using poor methods to criticise better methods in order to justify worse methods?
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 3:01:55 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
How is "intuition" properly defined? In the most concise sense, I think intuition can be defined as apprehended knowledge.

Did you notice how you assumed your conclusion there?

The problem is, many intuitions are just plain wrong, so not knowledge at all.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 3:53:52 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 12:52:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Can we trust that our intuitions are correct?

The most reasonable answer is that sometimes we can and sometimes we can't.

if a reasonable answer is we can't
then the answer is no, intuition isn't reliable.
years ago intuition told people that the world was flat, the earth was the center of the universe, and the sun went around the earth. all of which were proven false.

How is "intuition" properly defined? In the most concise sense, I think intuition can be defined as apprehended knowledge. "Apprehended" meaning innately granted.

How does one separate knowledge from belief? Are the two necessarily mutually exclusive? I don't think so.

beliefs are things you are convinced to be true.
you can believe it will or won't rain tomorrow.
in order to know something, 1st believe it to be true. everything you know fits within what you believe. you can believe something is true, but not know that it's true. however if you know something is true, then you also believe it to be true.
you can't know something to be false, and still believe it to be true.
knowledge is those beliefs that if proven false would require your world view to change.
you can know what a friend is like, but a single act out of character could turn your world upside down.


Do you think intuition is a reasonable basis for belief?

no, my reason i stated above