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Middle aged male atheists?

Skynet
Posts: 674
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7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous. I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically. Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them? Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/14/2016 4:14:38 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
Some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous.

What do they say to you that you don't hear from other atheist demographics?
How do they say it that offends you?
Is there a way they could say it differently that you'd respect? If so, how?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/14/2016 5:26:54 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Do you believe there could be anything in your own attitude that antagonises this particular demographic?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/14/2016 5:50:39 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Skynet, you may see that two of our atheist colleagues are fairly indifferent to your complaints, and I imagine that may well be a broad response here from the religious nones, of whom I too am numbered.

Yet there's some significant history behind the treatment of atheists in the US, especially by some particular Christian denominations. You may not be aware of it; you may not even have contributed to it; yet there's quite a lot of data on irreligion and US attitudes to it, along with irreligious attitudes to people of various faiths. Since some 70% of US atheists were raised in some faith, members too may have their own personal stories.

Before we get into that though, I think it's important to find out precisely what's being said that you object to, how it's being said, and what sense you're making of it. Else, it's hard to interpret. So if there's a particular kind of comment or behaviour you'd like to raise, please do not interpret any indifference here as discouragement from raising it. As for correlating behaviours we don't like with age and sex, I don't think it's fair to speculate until we can at least describe the behaviour.
Willows
Posts: 2,053
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7/14/2016 8:49:15 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous. I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically. Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them? Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?

You certainly seem to be towing the religious line alright....let's be prejudiced. What other distasteful doctrines are they going to push down your throat to make you feel more special than anyone else?
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/14/2016 9:31:52 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous.

That's not my impression.

I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically.

Is it your impression that people check your profile to see how old you are before engaging with you?

Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them?

My impression is that Christians are by far the most vitriolic around here.
I could be wrong, though.

Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?

You are going to have a hard time convincing me age has something to do with it.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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7/14/2016 2:12:01 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous. I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically. Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them? Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?

I try very hard to keep the conversation civil but I will not blithely accept baseless assertions or let an obvious falsehood go unmentioned. That's the purpose of debate, to express disagreements and demonstrate the validity of one point of view as opposed to another. Would you please provide some examples of your target demographic being, and I quote you here, " surly and condescending and self-righteous".

Just for the record, I'm a 57 year-old, college educated Caucasian male.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/14/2016 2:41:32 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous. I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically. Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them? Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?

They are feeling their mortality and it consists of 3 things.

1)Excluding God to psychologically feel no divine accountability as a defense mechanism. A form of conscious denial.

2)The fact God may exist bothers them, so they lash out.

3)They then overcompensate by trying to grabthe "moral highground" on theists, subconsciously feeling that if they are more "moral" in their mind, God is not justified to jjudge them. It's circular logic.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Skynet
Posts: 674
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7/15/2016 1:29:49 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 9:31:52 AM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous.

That's not my impression.

I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically.

Is it your impression that people check your profile to see how old you are before engaging with you?

It's readily available information. I get the "You take the X position because you are stupid and don't know how to science" "just Google it!" reaction more than the "I disagree with you so can you please present evidence" reaction. I appreciate you gravitating toward the latter.


Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them?

My impression is that Christians are by far the most vitriolic around here.
I could be wrong, though.


I've decided to drop the whole thread. I don't see this going anywhere good. I was looking to get the opinion of people OTHER than JUST middle aged male atheists, though they are certainly welcome, but I don't really see much diversity here.

I've seen what you've experienced, and I do not condone much beyond civil arguments, though I am guilty of letting my temper get the best of me on occasion. I'm thinking my impression may just be due to the positions I take (opposite atheists) on issues the demographic in question is more likely to be interested in and feel strongly about (white, middle aged males probably are the majority of English speaking academics in science and philosophy.) You, on the other hand take stances on issues opposite Christians, so you experience strong responses from Christians.


Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?

You are going to have a hard time convincing me age has something to do with it.

I'm not trying to convince you, I was just looking for other people's perspectives as my experience does not equal statistical analysis.

Anyhow, thanks for your input.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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7/15/2016 1:36:35 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous. I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically. Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them? Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?

I'm a middle aged male atheist. In general I think I am less tolerant and more impatient with young people than I was.

Because, you know, who's got time for that stuff. Young people are just annoying with a level of self assuredness not matched by experience.

I've been debating theism on the internet for over a decade. I've yet to see a really novel argument. Stuff gets old after a while.
Skynet
Posts: 674
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7/15/2016 2:39:34 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 1:36:35 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous. I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically. Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them? Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?

I'm a middle aged male atheist. In general I think I am less tolerant and more impatient with young people than I was.

Because, you know, who's got time for that stuff. Young people are just annoying with a level of self assuredness not matched by experience.

I've been debating theism on the internet for over a decade. I've yet to see a really novel argument. Stuff gets old after a while.

I've also heard people that agree with me theologically and politically that reach middle age that they "do not suffer fools lightly" as they see them as they once had. This is really what I was suspecting, but other people seem to have taken offence.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/15/2016 3:09:15 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous. I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically. Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them? Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?

I am happy to answer...

Here are some things to consider:

1. you are a theist
2. theists and atheists disagree
3. there are atheists on this site
4. this is a debate website
5. there are more male atheists on this site than female atheists
6. the best debaters are usually middle aged or older. Just look at some of the God debates on Youtube.

There you have it. That is why middle aged atheists seem antagonistic to you.

PS Forgive my condescension. I'm more to-the-point in my old age :)
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/15/2016 5:14:57 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 1:29:49 AM, Skynet wrote:
I've decided to drop the whole thread. I don't see this going anywhere good.

So...

1. Log into a forum called Religion
2. Complain about a religious demographic well-represented in forum, whom you claim offend you without exception.
3. Offer no specifics, but make a half-hearted attempt to deflect the conversation to demographics instead of -- as the forum-title would suggest -- religion.
4. When members so described, naturally affronted, engage you on details, pretend you weren't leveling a religious insult but trying to have an off-topic demographic conversation in a forum about religious belief.

Was this meant to be an honest conversation, Skynet, or a brave one?
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/15/2016 9:05:15 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 1:29:49 AM, Skynet wrote:
At 7/14/2016 9:31:52 AM, Omniverse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:08:36 AM, Skynet wrote:
This is a question for anyone. I run into all sorts of people daily, with all sorts of beliefs and I get along with most of them. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Now I come here to debate, so I'm up for an argument, and I even manage to get along peaceably enough with all sorts of people I disagree with. But some of the hardest to get along with people on DDO are middle aged male atheists. (35-60) Doesn't matter which country. They are surly and condescending and self-righteous.

That's not my impression.

I'm leaning away from atheism having much to do with it other than being an atheist means they are at odds with me on important topics, and more toward the cause being they are middle aged men who encounter a younger man they disagree with, and doesn't just cave automatically.

Is it your impression that people check your profile to see how old you are before engaging with you?

It's readily available information. I get the "You take the X position because you are stupid and don't know how to science" "just Google it!" reaction more than the "I disagree with you so can you please present evidence" reaction. I appreciate you gravitating toward the latter.

I think you might want to re-read the post. My comment was strictly directed at your suggestion that people first check your age before engaging with you.



Does anyone else have a group that tends to particularly surly towards them?

My impression is that Christians are by far the most vitriolic around here.
I could be wrong, though.


I've decided to drop the whole thread. I don't see this going anywhere good. I was looking to get the opinion of people OTHER than JUST middle aged male atheists, though they are certainly welcome, but I don't really see much diversity here.


Okay.
Regarding age, you seem to put a lot of trust in DDO profiles.

I've seen what you've experienced, and I do not condone much beyond civil arguments, though I am guilty of letting my temper get the best of me on occasion.

It would be fair to say temper gets the better of us once in a while. This is an incendiary topic, after all.

Contrast the ocasional outburst, however, with the way lawlypants, a self-professed Muslim, or Fatihah, another self-professed Muslum, or even ethang5 , a self-professed Christian, systematically behave.

I'm thinking my impression may just be due to the positions I take (opposite atheists) on issues the demographic in question is more likely to be interested in and feel strongly about (white, middle aged males probably are the majority of English speaking academics in science and philosophy.) You, on the other hand take stances on issues opposite Christians, so you experience strong responses from Christians.


And Muslims as well.
I also read discussions I don't take part in, so I do observe what goes on.

Is it just a philisophical disagreement that's going on here, or is there actually an age/gender correlation to being hard to get along with?

You are going to have a hard time convincing me age has something to do with it.

I'm not trying to convince you, I was just looking for other people's perspectives as my experience does not equal statistical analysis.

I understand that. What I mean is that such correlation has never occurred to me and I find it highly improbable.

The way I see it tone is the main trigger that makes the conversation quickly escalate. Then there's a number of aprioristic stances that also trigger almost knee-jerk kind of reactions: "Scientists are involved in a conspiracy to promote Evolution"; "Scientists don't have a clue about what Science is", etc.


Anyhow, thanks for your input.

No problem.