Total Posts:52|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

(For an atheist) What is life?

Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Your perspective please.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 9:10:51 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

A experience.
What ever you want it to be. What you make of it.
A living being.
Choices.
Entirely up to me.
A roller-coaster.
A one off thing.
A gift.
Something that can be taken.
Here and now.
The list goes on.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 10:02:13 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

I don't understand the question, Riwaaz. Do you mean all life? A human life? My whole life? My life as I presently live it? Your life?

I sense that you're searching for an over-arching narrative, but of what and why?
Looncall
Posts: 460
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 11:43:20 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

An arrangement of matter that exhibits metabolism and reproduction. No hocus-pocus needed.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 12:22:46 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Loosely defined, life is that which: attempts to regulate an internal environment isolated and separate from an external environment (homeostasis), is composed of one or more cells, engages in metabolism to the extent that it grows, adapts and responds to its environment, and reproduces.

I recognize that the universe rarely fits into the nice neat categories we humans have created for it, so there cannot be a hard line between life and non-life.
Mr.Wonderful
Posts: 98
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 12:29:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 12:22:46 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Loosely defined, life is that which: attempts to regulate an internal environment isolated and separate from an external environment (homeostasis), is composed of one or more cells, engages in metabolism to the extent that it grows, adapts and responds to its environment, and reproduces.

I recognize that the universe rarely fits into the nice neat categories we humans have created for it, so there cannot be a hard line between life and non-life.

Sure there can, the hard line between life and non-life is death. To believe anything else means you believe in something you cannot prove and therefore are not an atheist.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 12:30:33 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 10:02:13 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

I don't understand the question, Riwaaz. Do you mean all life? A human life? My whole life? My life as I presently live it? Your life?

I sense that you're searching for an over-arching narrative, but of what and why?

Are you a 3 legged kangaroo or not?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 12:33:55 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 12:29:24 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:22:46 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Loosely defined, life is that which: attempts to regulate an internal environment isolated and separate from an external environment (homeostasis), is composed of one or more cells, engages in metabolism to the extent that it grows, adapts and responds to its environment, and reproduces.

I recognize that the universe rarely fits into the nice neat categories we humans have created for it, so there cannot be a hard line between life and non-life.

Sure there can, the hard line between life and non-life is death. To believe anything else means you believe in something you cannot prove and therefore are not an atheist.

Death is not a discrete event. It does not constitute a hard line.

Nor is atheism refuted by believing in unprovable things
Mr.Wonderful
Posts: 98
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 2:40:34 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 12:33:55 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:29:24 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:22:46 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Loosely defined, life is that which: attempts to regulate an internal environment isolated and separate from an external environment (homeostasis), is composed of one or more cells, engages in metabolism to the extent that it grows, adapts and responds to its environment, and reproduces.

I recognize that the universe rarely fits into the nice neat categories we humans have created for it, so there cannot be a hard line between life and non-life.

Sure there can, the hard line between life and non-life is death. To believe anything else means you believe in something you cannot prove and therefore are not an atheist.

Death is not a discrete event. It does not constitute a hard line.

Nor is atheism refuted by believing in unprovable things

LOL... death is a pretty hard line. It takes a lot of willful ignorance to say that it isn't... once you die you cease to live... here at least. Atheism is easily refuted by existence... Where were you before you were born? Where do you go after you die? The only truly atheistic answer to that is nowhere... you had no sentience before you were born and with no FACTUAL evidence to the contrary one MUST assume you will have none after you die. Its that simple. The point is there is no way to 100% conclusively prove God exists... therefore the existence of God does not concern an atheist since it is not proven as fact.

This is really something that annoys me... Atheists define themselves as mere adherents to facts. Atheists believe in a total absence of God... not that there might be a God. The belief that there may or may not be a God is called agnosticism and had a totally different belief set which is accepting . Its simply that no higher power exists and by extension do not believe in the realm of the spirit which can't be factually proven either. The universe would be of no concern to a true atheist since any speculation not based in fact, such as extra-terrestrial life, etc. falls squarely in the "unproven" category as well.

If you believe that death is not a hard line OR may not be a hard line, by definition you are AGNOSTIC and not atheist. Atheism is not relative, nor is it up to the convenience of its believer... it is a belief that no God exists.

atheism
noun athe"ism \G2;ā-thē-G6;i-zəm\
Popularity: Bottom 50% of words
Definition of atheism

1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness

2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

The dictionary has my back back bro... take it up with Merriam-Webster. To believe in anything outside of proven facts is the closest thing atheism offers to heresy. The limited understanding of things beside proven facts is not a problem inherent to the universe... it is a problem inherent to saying "there is no God, so its all irrelevant anyways". Its a convenient system since there is no eternal consequence for the actions taken by an Atheist... and a big gamble if the Atheist turns out to be wrong. Either way, mankind is free to believe whatever we want. If you want to believe in nothing that's fine, if you want to believe in the spaghetti-monster that's fine too. Ultimately your sentience is your own so regardless of what you believe you are still beholden to your existence... wherever it takes you.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 2:52:50 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:40:34 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:33:55 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:29:24 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:22:46 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Loosely defined, life is that which: attempts to regulate an internal environment isolated and separate from an external environment (homeostasis), is composed of one or more cells, engages in metabolism to the extent that it grows, adapts and responds to its environment, and reproduces.

I recognize that the universe rarely fits into the nice neat categories we humans have created for it, so there cannot be a hard line between life and non-life.

Sure there can, the hard line between life and non-life is death. To believe anything else means you believe in something you cannot prove and therefore are not an atheist.

Death is not a discrete event. It does not constitute a hard line.

Nor is atheism refuted by believing in unprovable things

LOL... death is a pretty hard line. It takes a lot of willful ignorance to say that it isn't... once you die you cease to live...

You are presupposing that there is an instant in time where a person ceases to exist. That simply doesn't exist. For the purposes of utility and convenience, we humans attempt to draw such lines (for example, when a doctor calls "time of death"), but that is for our internal use only. Natural rarely adheres to the little boxes we've created for it. The fact of the matter is it's all really fuzzy.

here at least. Atheism is easily refuted by existence... Where were you before you were born? Where do you go after you die? The only truly atheistic answer to that is nowhere... you had no sentience before you were born and with no FACTUAL evidence to the contrary one MUST assume you will have none after you die. Its that simple.

I am not disputing this. I'm simply saying that even though I will eventually die and cease to exist, and we can point to one point in time (now) and say I'm alive and point to another point in time (1,000 years from now) and say that I am not alive, we cannot pick out a single point in time in which that transition takes place. It is the Sorites paradox. It does not mean life and death don't exist, or that life does not transition into death, it just says that it is not a thing that can be adequately described by discrete labels.

The point is there is no way to 100% conclusively prove God exists... therefore the existence of God does not concern an atheist since it is not proven as fact.

This certainly doesn't follow. There is no way to 100% conclusively prove anything, yet many such things concern me. Though I will admit the more concerning thing are the actions people take in the name of gods that are more pressing.

This is really something that annoys me... Atheists define themselves as mere adherents to facts. Atheists believe in a total absence of God... not that there might be a God. The belief that there may or may not be a God is called agnosticism and had a totally different belief set which is accepting . Its simply that no higher power exists and by extension do not believe in the realm of the spirit which can't be factually proven either. The universe would be of no concern to a true atheist since any speculation not based in fact, such as extra-terrestrial life, etc. falls squarely in the "unproven" category as well.

I cannot contradict nor comment your experiences with other atheists. However, I do not define myself as a mere adherent to fact. And while I am fairly certain there is no god, I do not dismiss the possibility. Agnosticism is something completely different, and I do not agree with your assessment of what it is or its relationship with atheism, but that is an entirely different discussion.

If you believe that death is not a hard line OR may not be a hard line, by definition you are AGNOSTIC and not atheist. Atheism is not relative, nor is it up to the convenience of its believer... it is a belief that no God exists.

Exactly, it is a belief that no God exists. It has nothing to do with any beliefs of life or death or whether or not we are certain or doubtful about the matter. This is why I was confused why you would take my stance as non-atheistic. While we may ascribe a certain set of common beliefs among atheists, the fact of the matter atheists can believe in a bunch of unproven stuff, so long as it isn't god. You can have atheists that believe in aliens, ghosts, astrology, elves, souls, and lots of other things, so long as they don't believe in a god.

atheism
noun athe"ism \G2;ā-thē-G6;i-zəm\
Popularity: Bottom 50% of words
Definition of atheism

1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness

2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

The dictionary has my back back bro... take it up with Merriam-Webster. To believe in anything outside of proven facts is the closest thing atheism offers to heresy.

Except there is nothing in this that says anything about believing in things outside proven facts.

The limited understanding of things beside proven facts is not a problem inherent to the universe... it is a problem inherent to saying "there is no God, so its all irrelevant anyways". Its a convenient system since there is no eternal consequence for the actions taken by an Atheist... and a big gamble if the Atheist turns out to be wrong. Either way, mankind is free to believe whatever we want. If you want to believe in nothing that's fine, if you want to believe in the spaghetti-monster that's fine too. Ultimately your sentience is your own so regardless of what you believe you are still beholden to your existence... wherever it takes you.
film
Posts: 85
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 2:58:38 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 11:43:20 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

An arrangement of matter that exhibits metabolism and reproduction. No hocus-pocus needed.

do you think that if we somehow make an exact copy of you, molecule by molecule, it will have the same thoughts when you both are there in the same environmental conditions? more importantly, do you think such a copy will be able to breath?
Mr.Wonderful
Posts: 98
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 3:13:54 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:52:50 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:40:34 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:33:55 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:29:24 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:22:46 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Loosely defined, life is that which: attempts to regulate an internal environment isolated and separate from an external environment (homeostasis), is composed of one or more cells, engages in metabolism to the extent that it grows, adapts and responds to its environment, and reproduces.

I recognize that the universe rarely fits into the nice neat categories we humans have created for it, so there cannot be a hard line between life and non-life.

Sure there can, the hard line between life and non-life is death. To believe anything else means you believe in something you cannot prove and therefore are not an atheist.

Death is not a discrete event. It does not constitute a hard line.

Nor is atheism refuted by believing in unprovable things

LOL... death is a pretty hard line. It takes a lot of willful ignorance to say that it isn't... once you die you cease to live...

You are presupposing that there is an instant in time where a person ceases to exist. That simply doesn't exist. For the purposes of utility and convenience, we humans attempt to draw such lines (for example, when a doctor calls "time of death"), but that is for our internal use only. Natural rarely adheres to the little boxes we've created for it. The fact of the matter is it's all really fuzzy.

here at least. Atheism is easily refuted by existence... Where were you before you were born? Where do you go after you die? The only truly atheistic answer to that is nowhere... you had no sentience before you were born and with no FACTUAL evidence to the contrary one MUST assume you will have none after you die. Its that simple.

I am not disputing this. I'm simply saying that even though I will eventually die and cease to exist, and we can point to one point in time (now) and say I'm alive and point to another point in time (1,000 years from now) and say that I am not alive, we cannot pick out a single point in time in which that transition takes place. It is the Sorites paradox. It does not mean life and death don't exist, or that life does not transition into death, it just says that it is not a thing that can be adequately described by discrete labels.

The point is there is no way to 100% conclusively prove God exists... therefore the existence of God does not concern an atheist since it is not proven as fact.

This certainly doesn't follow. There is no way to 100% conclusively prove anything, yet many such things concern me. Though I will admit the more concerning thing are the actions people take in the name of gods that are more pressing.

This is really something that annoys me... Atheists define themselves as mere adherents to facts. Atheists believe in a total absence of God... not that there might be a God. The belief that there may or may not be a God is called agnosticism and had a totally different belief set which is accepting . Its simply that no higher power exists and by extension do not believe in the realm of the spirit which can't be factually proven either. The universe would be of no concern to a true atheist since any speculation not based in fact, such as extra-terrestrial life, etc. falls squarely in the "unproven" category as well.

I cannot contradict nor comment your experiences with other atheists. However, I do not define myself as a mere adherent to fact. And while I am fairly certain there is no god, I do not dismiss the possibility. Agnosticism is something completely different, and I do not agree with your assessment of what it is or its relationship with atheism, but that is an entirely different discussion.

If you believe that death is not a hard line OR may not be a hard line, by definition you are AGNOSTIC and not atheist. Atheism is not relative, nor is it up to the convenience of its believer... it is a belief that no God exists.

Exactly, it is a belief that no God exists. It has nothing to do with any beliefs of life or death or whether or not we are certain or doubtful about the matter. This is why I was confused why you would take my stance as non-atheistic. While we may ascribe a certain set of common beliefs among atheists, the fact of the matter atheists can believe in a bunch of unproven stuff, so long as it isn't god. You can have atheists that believe in aliens, ghosts, astrology, elves, souls, and lots of other things, so long as they don't believe in a god.

atheism
noun athe"ism \G2;ā-thē-G6;i-zəm\
Popularity: Bottom 50% of words
Definition of atheism

1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness

2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

The dictionary has my back back bro... take it up with Merriam-Webster. To believe in anything outside of proven facts is the closest thing atheism offers to heresy.

Except there is nothing in this that says anything about believing in things outside proven facts.

The limited understanding of things beside proven facts is not a problem inherent to the universe... it is a problem inherent to saying "there is no God, so its all irrelevant anyways". Its a convenient system since there is no eternal consequence for the actions taken by an Atheist... and a big gamble if the Atheist turns out to be wrong. Either way, mankind is free to believe whatever we want. If you want to believe in nothing that's fine, if you want to believe in the spaghetti-monster that's fine too. Ultimately your sentience is your own so regardless of what you believe you are still beholden to your existence... wherever it takes you.

The doctrine of atheism is logic. It is illogical to believe in anything that cannot be factually proven according to any true atheist... which I was for a long time. Then I pulled my head out.
Looncall
Posts: 460
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 3:14:40 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:58:38 PM, film wrote:
At 7/14/2016 11:43:20 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

An arrangement of matter that exhibits metabolism and reproduction. No hocus-pocus needed.

do you think that if we somehow make an exact copy of you, molecule by molecule, it will have the same thoughts when you both are there in the same environmental conditions? more importantly, do you think such a copy will be able to breath?

The thoughts? I suppose so, but briefly since our histories would instantly diverge.

If the copy were exact, I suppose it would breathe. Why not?

Essentialism is so nineteenth century.

The book "Venus Equilateral II" by George O. Smith has a good treatment of duplication of persons.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 3:41:36 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Life is a state of being where an entity metabolizes food and reproduces. It's a biological process. Now, if you want to discuss sentience and self-awareness, that's a whole different kettle of fish.
tarantula
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 3:49:37 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
You are conceived by your parents, you live your life, however long or short, then you die, end of.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 3:54:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 3:13:54 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:

The doctrine of atheism is logic.

I'm not aware of, nor do I adhere to, any "doctrine of atheism."

It is illogical to believe in anything that cannot be factually proven according to any true atheist...

An atheist is simply a person that has no belief in a god. That's all it takes. The stuff you are talking about about believing unproven things is extra and has no bearing on a person's atheism. I won't go down the rabbit hole of "No True Scotsman" so I'll simply say that I don't here to this premise that it is "illogical to believe in anything that cannot be factually proven."

which I was for a long time. Then I pulled my head out.

Your views on atheism are somewhat twisted and loaded with rather unfortunate preconceptions.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 9:39:18 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 12:30:33 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/14/2016 10:02:13 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

I don't understand the question, Riwaaz. Do you mean all life? A human life? My whole life? My life as I presently live it? Your life?

I sense that you're searching for an over-arching narrative, but of what and why?

Are you a 3 legged kangaroo or not?

I refuse to answer the questions of a goosenana.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/14/2016 11:53:43 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Have you ever seen the greyish green mold that forms on the skin of an apple or an orange if it sits for too long?

That's us, on planet Earth.

That's life, in perspective.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2016 12:13:22 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 11:53:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Have you ever seen the greyish green mold that forms on the skin of an apple or an orange if it sits for too long?

Have you ever seen the humility one gains when accepting God as the maker of their soul and being??? nothing can compare to that, it's not debatable, God is one awesome mother snucker.

That's us, on planet Earth.

That's life, in perspective.

There is no real perspective in atheism, it's just a pipe dream, a boring ideology that's had enough of being abused.
janesix
Posts: 3,476
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2016 12:30:46 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:13:22 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/14/2016 11:53:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Have you ever seen the greyish green mold that forms on the skin of an apple or an orange if it sits for too long?

Have you ever seen the humility one gains when accepting God as the maker of their soul and being???
I have not seen humility in you.

nothing can compare to that, it's not debatable, God is one awesome mother snucker.

That's us, on planet Earth.

That's life, in perspective.

There is no real perspective in atheism, it's just a pipe dream, a boring ideology that's had enough of being abused.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2016 12:34:42 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:13:22 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/14/2016 11:53:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Have you ever seen the greyish green mold that forms on the skin of an apple or an orange if it sits for too long?

Have you ever seen the humility one gains when accepting God as the maker of their soul and being???

I have seen ignorance, hate, dishonesty, delusion and intolerance from those who accept their god, but never humility.

nothing can compare to that, it's not debatable, God is one awesome mother snucker.

Oh yes, and add to that list, authoritative, self-righteousness, arrogance and superiority.

That's us, on planet Earth.

That's life, in perspective.

There is no real perspective in atheism, it's just a pipe dream, a boring ideology that's had enough of being abused.

Atheism occurs ONLY when YOU open your mouth and speak about your god. It is a reaction to those who make vacuous, mindbogglingly insane claims about things that have never been shown to exist. The reaction is indifference of those claims.

Therefore, it cannot be an ideology or a pipe dream or is being abused, it can't have a perspective as it offers none.

This would show you have no clue what atheism is about and are fearful of it, hence why you're compelled to make things up of derision. It's a thinly veiled agenda.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2016 5:59:39 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:40:34 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:33:55 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:29:24 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 12:22:46 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Loosely defined, life is that which: attempts to regulate an internal environment isolated and separate from an external environment (homeostasis), is composed of one or more cells, engages in metabolism to the extent that it grows, adapts and responds to its environment, and reproduces.

I recognize that the universe rarely fits into the nice neat categories we humans have created for it, so there cannot be a hard line between life and non-life.

Sure there can, the hard line between life and non-life is death. To believe anything else means you believe in something you cannot prove and therefore are not an atheist.

Death is not a discrete event. It does not constitute a hard line.

Nor is atheism refuted by believing in unprovable things

LOL... death is a pretty hard line. It takes a lot of willful ignorance to say that it isn't... once you die you cease to live... here at least. Atheism is easily refuted by existence... Where were you before you were born? Where do you go after you die? The only truly atheistic answer to that is nowhere... you had no sentience before you were born and with no FACTUAL evidence to the contrary one MUST assume you will have none after you die. Its that simple. The point is there is no way to 100% conclusively prove God exists... therefore the existence of God does not concern an atheist since it is not proven as fact.

This is really something that annoys me... Atheists define themselves as mere adherents to facts. Atheists believe in a total absence of God... not that there might be a God. The belief that there may or may not be a God is called agnosticism and had a totally different belief set which is accepting . Its simply that no higher power exists and by extension do not believe in the realm of the spirit which can't be factually proven either. The universe would be of no concern to a true atheist since any speculation not based in fact, such as extra-terrestrial life, etc. falls squarely in the "unproven" category as well.

If you believe that death is not a hard line OR may not be a hard line, by definition you are AGNOSTIC and not atheist. Atheism is not relative, nor is it up to the convenience of its believer... it is a belief that no God exists.


atheism
noun athe"ism \G2;ā-thē-G6;i-zəm\
Popularity: Bottom 50% of words
Definition of atheism

1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness

2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

The dictionary has my back back bro... take it up with Merriam-Webster. To believe in anything outside of proven facts is the closest thing atheism offers to heresy. The limited understanding of things beside proven facts is not a problem inherent to the universe... it is a problem inherent to saying "there is no God, so its all irrelevant anyways". Its a convenient system since there is no eternal consequence for the actions taken by an Atheist... and a big gamble if the Atheist turns out to be wrong. Either way, mankind is free to believe whatever we want. If you want to believe in nothing that's fine, if you want to believe in the spaghetti-monster that's fine too. Ultimately your sentience is your own so regardless of what you believe you are still beholden to your existence... wherever it takes you.
An atheist simply rejects the theist claim that gods exist.
That's all she wrote.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2016 6:02:17 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 3:13:54 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:

The doctrine of atheism is logic. It is illogical to believe in anything that cannot be factually proven according to any true atheist... which I was for a long time. Then I pulled my head out.

Atheism has no doctrines, see earlier post.
It would seem you were never an atheist.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2016 6:05:47 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:13:22 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/14/2016 11:53:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:38:56 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
Your perspective please.

Have you ever seen the greyish green mold that forms on the skin of an apple or an orange if it sits for too long?

Have you ever seen the humility one gains when accepting God as the maker of their soul and being??? nothing can compare to that, it's not debatable, God is one awesome mother snucker.

That's us, on planet Earth.

That's life, in perspective.

There is no real perspective in atheism, it's just a pipe dream, a boring ideology that's had enough of being abused.
You've been here for a year, you've been told hundreds of times what atheism is and you still get it wrong.
Mr.Wonderful
Posts: 98
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2016 8:16:51 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 6:02:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/14/2016 3:13:54 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:

The doctrine of atheism is logic. It is illogical to believe in anything that cannot be factually proven according to any true atheist... which I was for a long time. Then I pulled my head out.

Atheism has no doctrines, see earlier post.
It would seem you were never an atheist.

Well.. there are some atheists who clearly disagree... and frankly Atheists follow a more regimented system of non-belief than almost any regimented belief system in the world save for maybe the strictest adherents to Islam or the most adept black magicians and without strict adherence to the doctrine of fanatical non-belief one finds themselves ostracized from atheist circles similar to heretics in organized religions... in the atheist structure... belief in anything that does not follow the scientific method is true heresy... unless of course, science accidentally suggests god might exist... that science is OK to ignore... so basically Atheism is hypocrisy... but that's the only way it can exist... or not exist... I think you get my point... though surely, you will try to rationalize it... and fail.

http://www.cnn.com...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2016 9:13:49 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 8:16:51 AM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/15/2016 6:02:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/14/2016 3:13:54 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:

The doctrine of atheism is logic. It is illogical to believe in anything that cannot be factually proven according to any true atheist... which I was for a long time. Then I pulled my head out.

Atheism has no doctrines, see earlier post.
It would seem you were never an atheist.

Well.. there are some atheists who clearly disagree... and frankly Atheists follow a more regimented system of non-belief than almost any regimented belief system in the world save for maybe the strictest adherents to Islam or the most adept black magicians and without strict adherence to the doctrine of fanatical non-belief one finds themselves ostracized from atheist circles similar to heretics in organized religions... in the atheist structure... belief in anything that does not follow the scientific method is true heresy... unless of course, science accidentally suggests god might exist... that science is OK to ignore... so basically Atheism is hypocrisy... but that's the only way it can exist... or not exist... I think you get my point... though surely, you will try to rationalize it... and fail.

http://www.cnn.com...

Can you name these atheists, please?
Do you disagree with any of the non-commandments in your linked book plug?
Mr.Wonderful
Posts: 98
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2016 12:43:26 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 9:13:49 AM, desmac wrote:


Can you name these atheists, please?
Do you disagree with any of the non-commandments in your linked book plug?

A fair question... and I could give a long list but we know that will only result in a big back and forth session... so for the sake of advancing the argument more toward its inevitable conclusion I will go with the most prominent one in my mind.... Voltaire was probably the biggest influence on my personal Atheism... one quote in particular really stands out, "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities". Though today I will happily and very gratefully call myself Christian because I understand there is a big difference between what Jesus Christ taught and the dogmatic crap being taught in most churches... and I think most people come to Atheism because of the rigid dogma that really isn't Christianity. Any Atheist immediately recognizes that what is going on in most churches, particularly Catholic ones has to do with manipulation and control over the thoughts of the mass of people... repetition and hypnotic suggestion are commonplace and the construct of guilt to keep parishioners in line... add in paid forgiveness of sins and absolution for carrying out the church's command and its clear to see the priests have effectively supplanted the will of God with their own and added in a level of depravity which is both against the teachings of Christ as well as simple human decency. It took me a long time to understand that God as I understand him today (and its probably a much better understanding than most "church people" have) is not the punishing, petty, and narcissistic deity used by the church today to instill fear and obedience into people... and I actually have more respect for atheism than any organized Christian church because atheists actually question things and stand up for their beliefs and they aren't afraid of a challenging argument. Surprisingly, if you care to read 2,000 year old scriptures you'll find Jesus taught the exact same thing. He took a whip to the temple, called out false prophets and liars and drew a very hard line between what was being preached in the synagogues and the actual word and intent of God. For me today, I can say I finally get it... and the closer I follow Jesus' actual path there is an actual presence in my being, an unconditional love I feel that simply comes from doing my best to live as he did and to please God in all I do. The biggest problem I've always had with organized religion in general is the idea that one can be 'good'. Atheists have no problem asserting that no man is inherently good... and yet to my surprise again, Jesus asserted the same thing asserting that even he himself wasn't good and that no one is good but God. It seems like an insane statement but what he was getting at is we are all flawed, we all stumble a bit, but ultimately its our willingness to strive to do better and to lift others up and show them the truth even if its harsh that sets us apart... that allows that which is truly good to show us the path to righteousness should we earnestly desire to follow the guidance that God has put before us. The path is a little different for each person but I guess the only advice I can give on the matter is if you seek the truth , all personal beliefs and ambition aside then you will find it.

Now onto the second question... I disagree with the absolute hypocrisy of the atheistic mindset which revolves around the scientific method... because I find that most atheists really don't simply hypothesize, experiment, and analyze in a very non-biased way... because if they did and they learned what I did just from constantly seeking and questioning the truth I find it very hard to believe the conclusion they would reach would be Atheism, the belief that God doesn't exist because I know he does and its been proven to me not by some priest but just through open communion with him... and the remarkable changes brought about in my personal life. Before I was always frustrated, always seeking to justify my own position (the very definition of bias) and today I have a lot of peace but I also have a lot of responsibility to share with others the truth I know and a responsibility to speak out against liars and people following an evil agenda, even those who proclaim to be Christian but whose works suggest otherwise. My scientific method that led me to this course was actually very simple... and I came to a point in my life I thought all was lost.

Hypothesis: If God is real and all-knowing and really doesn't enjoy human suffering then if I pray to him in earnest and just ask for proof of his existence as a non-believer he might show me so I might believe in him.

Experiment: I prayed to God for the first time in a long time and just said "God if you are real then show me so I can believe".

Results: At this time there was much violence, illicit drug use, and people who were very much opposed to God (like people who intentionally hurt others for their own gain and had no qualms about using any means necessary to achieve their goals) in my life... and two of those people who I hadn't seen in a few months came to me three days later and started clowning on me about being depressed. I can't really share the entire discourse of the conversation on the internet but needless to say I was very shocked when they asked me to go to church with them... but this time was much different, it wasn't the same church I hated growing up... these people were different and I felt a different energy there than I could explain with any science... it was warm and loving... and all I could do in its presence is cry because I knew despite my non-belief, despite all the rotten crap I did to others, this God actually cared and wanted me to set things right... after that, being a true "facts" based atheist I could not justify my bias. I had an injury on my right arm a long cut from getting too close to machinery and the strangest thing happened.... the next day it was gone and it was a decently deep cut.

Honestly, I can tell you... God is real not imaginary and converted atheists and Satanists are some of his most diehard followers and maybe its just because we have the passion the mainstream church lacks but he needs us now more than ever and the reverse is also true. I can tell you, you can only deceive yourself... you cannot deceive God. There's a lot that is about to happen and we all must speak the truth if we are to fulfill his purpose for our lives and in doing so save so many from the fate he fears most for us. My calling is simple here... when I see ignorance call it out, when I see evil challenge it, and when I see lies to shine the truth upon them. There is literally nothing that God cannot do and no task that is too great for him but mankind has free will and how we use that will not only affects us but affects everyone around us and those who were deceived or deceived themselves will be his greatest champions in the days to come. If you really want to know... just try my little method... nothing to lose and all to gain in my honest opinion.

If you prefer to remain content that I'm crazy or making stuff up... that's entirely your bias. God has never once forced me to do anything or made me pray in a certain way, etc. A true relationship with God is completely the opposite of the dogmatic empty words of a child molesting priest or the placid tone of an atrophied choir. I will sing the truth in all things and let that song be anathema to the ears of those who knowingly deceive others with dark agendas and selfish intent for I tell you honestly, Jesus already paid the price for all who repent and follow his ways. God isn't some judgmental guilt trip, all he really expects is that we cast ego aside, do our best to make amends with the past and do his works going forward.
Willows
Posts: 2,068
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2016 3:06:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 12:43:26 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:13:49 AM, desmac wrote:

.. after that, being a true "facts" based atheist I could not justify my bias. I had an injury on my right arm a long cut from getting too close to machinery and the strangest thing happened.... the next day it was gone and it was a decently deep cut.

Honestly, I can tell you... God is real not imaginary

So, you claim that you had a decent deep cut on your arm and the next day it was gone?
You are so delusional that you lie. When you get down off your self-induced, newly found euphoria you may want to re-read what you just wrote and realise what this drug does to people.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2016 3:40:52 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 12:43:26 PM, Mr.Wonderful wrote:

Now onto the second question... I disagree with the absolute hypocrisy of the atheistic mindset which revolves around the scientific method... because I find that most atheists really don't simply hypothesize, experiment, and analyze in a very non-biased way... because if they did and they learned what I did just from constantly seeking and questioning the truth I find it very hard to believe the conclusion they would reach would be Atheism, the belief that God doesn't exist because I know he does and its been proven to me not by some priest but just through open communion with him... and the remarkable changes brought about in my personal life. Before I was always frustrated, always seeking to justify my own position (the very definition of bias) and today I have a lot of peace but I also have a lot of responsibility to share with others the truth I know and a responsibility to speak out against liars and people following an evil agenda, even those who proclaim to be Christian but whose works suggest otherwise. My scientific method that led me to this course was actually very simple... and I came to a point in my life I thought all was lost.

Hypothesis: If God is real and all-knowing and really doesn't enjoy human suffering then if I pray to him in earnest and just ask for proof of his existence as a non-believer he might show me so I might believe in him.

Experiment: I prayed to God for the first time in a long time and just said "God if you are real then show me so I can believe".

Results: At this time there was much violence, illicit drug use, and people who were very much opposed to God (like people who intentionally hurt others for their own gain and had no qualms about using any means necessary to achieve their goals) in my life... and two of those people who I hadn't seen in a few months came to me three days later and started clowning on me about being depressed. I can't really share the entire discourse of the conversation on the internet but needless to say I was very shocked when they asked me to go to church with them... but this time was much different, it wasn't the same church I hated growing up... these people were different and I felt a different energy there than I could explain with any science... it was warm and loving... and all I could do in its presence is cry because I knew despite my non-belief, despite all the rotten crap I did to others, this God actually cared and wanted me to set things right... after that, being a true "facts" based atheist I could not justify my bias. I had an injury on my right arm a long cut from getting too close to machinery and the strangest thing happened.... the next day it was gone and it was a decently deep cut.

You just lied after claiming to speak out against liars. That also makes you a hypocrite. You lied in order to support your claim that you "know" God exists, that makes you deceitful and dishonest.

Seems your just another Christian like the rest.

Honestly, I can tell you... God is real not imaginary and converted atheists and Satanists are some of his most diehard followers and maybe its just because we have the passion the mainstream church lacks but he needs us now more than ever and the reverse is also true. I can tell you, you can only deceive yourself... you cannot deceive God.

But, you are deceiving us.

There's a lot that is about to happen and we all must speak the truth if we are to fulfill his purpose for our lives and in doing so save so many from the fate he fears most for us. My calling is simple here... when I see ignorance call it out,

Than, call out your own ignorance, or would you like us to do that for you?

when I see evil challenge it, and when I see lies to shine the truth upon them.

Yet, you are a liar.

There is literally nothing that God cannot do and no task that is too great for him but mankind has free will and how we use that will not only affects us but affects everyone around us and those who were deceived or deceived themselves will be his greatest champions in the days to come. If you really want to know... just try my little method... nothing to lose and all to gain in my honest opinion.

LOL. There is nothing honest about your opinions, quite the contrary.

If you prefer to remain content that I'm crazy or making stuff up... that's entirely your bias.

No,your own words show you're crazy and making stuff up.

God has never once forced me to do anything or made me pray in a certain way, etc.

Me neither. what's your point?

A true relationship with God is completely the opposite of the dogmatic empty words of a child molesting priest or the placid tone of an atrophied choir.

And yet, that is exactly what you're offering, dogmatic empty words.

I will sing the truth in all things and let that song be anathema to the ears of those who knowingly deceive others with dark agendas and selfish intent

Then, you need to sing to yourself.

for I tell you honestly

No, you don't.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth