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Religion Caused Most Wars?

ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/14/2016 4:30:03 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

This is 100% true. More people just dont know their history. I had a recent discussiom with a friend who was surprised to learn europe had been internally at war pretty much since roman times until recently with peace only occuring for maybe the last 20-30 years...
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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7/14/2016 4:38:27 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Oh dear, christianity and islam were both used for justification and the cause of most of the wars ever fought. It would be nice if the religious actually possessed the capacity for critical thought.
Governments are the creation of your god according to your great book of fairy tales.
So I guess you are assigning all wars to your god.
Go you good thing.
hahahahahaha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,379
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7/14/2016 4:52:32 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?
And even wars alleged to have been religious wars had so many factors involved where religion was not a major issue, religion was probably not the cause. If the Irish Civil War is considered a religious war, that would be a good example where nationalism played the major role as opposed to whether or not Irishmen should pray the rosary.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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7/14/2016 4:55:48 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:52:32 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?
And even wars alleged to have been religious wars had so many factors involved where religion was not a major issue, religion was probably not the cause. If the Irish Civil War is considered a religious war, that would be a good example where nationalism played the major role as opposed to whether or not Irishmen should pray the rosary.
And why hasn't your god put an end to that like he has allegedly so many times in the past?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,379
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7/14/2016 4:59:38 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:55:48 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:52:32 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?
And even wars alleged to have been religious wars had so many factors involved where religion was not a major issue, religion was probably not the cause. If the Irish Civil War is considered a religious war, that would be a good example where nationalism played the major role as opposed to whether or not Irishmen should pray the rosary.
And why hasn't your god put an end to that like he has allegedly so many times in the past?
The Irish Civil War lasted less than a year. Perhaps He did put an end to it.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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7/14/2016 5:06:48 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Yes. All the time.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/14/2016 5:38:14 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:38:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Oh dear, christianity and islam were both used for justification and the cause of most of the wars ever fought. It would be nice if the religious actually possessed the capacity for critical thought.
Governments are the creation of your god according to your great book of fairy tales.
So I guess you are assigning all wars to your god.
Go you good thing.
hahahahahaha
It would be nice if someone bearing the name bulproof provided any kind of evidence to the contrary as seems to be lacking from you lately.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/14/2016 5:47:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

How are they defining wars, and how are they defining religion?
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/14/2016 6:41:10 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Surely, it's the apex of intelectual honesty when even those few wars deemed religious get discarded because, supposedly, they had ulterior temporal motives behind them. I'm sure if criteria get further refined , results will undoubtedly show that 100% wars were atheistic in nature.

First, I want to have criteria for war, criteria for religion, criteria for a secular war, and criteria for religious war all spelled out.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,379
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7/14/2016 8:12:34 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 6:41:10 PM, Omniverse wrote:
Surely, it's the apex of intelectual honesty when even those few wars deemed religious get discarded because, supposedly, they had ulterior temporal motives behind them. I'm sure if criteria get further refined , results will undoubtedly show that 100% wars were atheistic in nature.

I (quite strongly) disagree.

First off, it's mere speculation. We haven't seen such a reference made in this thread yet. In addition, if you were to tell me that a war started by an invaded nation attempting to protect their land, or their people within a foreign land where they were a minority was atheistic in nature (an invaded peoples could just lay down and get trampled over), that wouldn't be much of a knock against atheism ("we are protecting ourselves by declaring war against the invaders because we don't believe in a god"). Obviously some declarations of war are justifiable.

First, I want to have criteria for war, criteria for religion, criteria for a secular war, and criteria for religious war all spelled out.
I haven't read the book referred to in the OP, so I don't know how far it goes in defining criteria, but the thread is addressing the specific claim that religion causes most wars. And I don't think it would take much google searching to see references to that specific claim. So I think a lot of the burden of criteria lies on the claimant of just that. It didn't take long before the term religion turned into Christianity and Islam in this thread.

I personally think most references where the term religion is used, the person usually has Christianity and Islam in mind. The term religion, I think in most cases, is merely a PC term to avoid appearing prejudiced by targeting a specific religion. I kind of doubt that many of them are actually thinking about the small ancient nation going to war over another small nation who insulted their national god/deity.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/14/2016 8:19:55 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:12:34 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/14/2016 6:41:10 PM, Omniverse wrote:
Surely, it's the apex of intelectual honesty when even those few wars deemed religious get discarded because, supposedly, they had ulterior temporal motives behind them. I'm sure if criteria get further refined , results will undoubtedly show that 100% wars were atheistic in nature.

I (quite strongly) disagree.

First off, it's mere speculation. We haven't seen such a reference made in this thread yet. In addition, if you were to tell me that a war started by an invaded nation attempting to protect their land, or their people within a foreign land where they were a minority was atheistic in nature (an invaded peoples could just lay down and get trampled over), that wouldn't be much of a knock against atheism ("we are protecting ourselves by declaring war against the invaders because we don't believe in a god"). Obviously some declarations of war are justifiable.


First, I want to have criteria for war, criteria for religion, criteria for a secular war, and criteria for religious war all spelled out.
I haven't read the book referred to in the OP, so I don't know how far it goes in defining criteria, but the thread is addressing the specific claim that religion causes most wars. And I don't think it would take much google searching to see references to that specific claim. So I think a lot of the burden of criteria lies on the claimant of just that. It didn't take long before the term religion turned into Christianity and Islam in this thread.

I personally think most references where the term religion is used, the person usually has Christianity and Islam in mind. The term religion, I think in most cases, is merely a PC term to avoid appearing prejudiced by targeting a specific religion. I kind of doubt that many of them are actually thinking about the small ancient nation going to war over another small nation who insulted their national god/deity.

Does this figure of 1763 wars include any fought in precolonial America's or Africa?
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/14/2016 8:22:56 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:12:34 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/14/2016 6:41:10 PM, Omniverse wrote:
Surely, it's the apex of intelectual honesty when even those few wars deemed religious get discarded because, supposedly, they had ulterior temporal motives behind them. I'm sure if criteria get further refined , results will undoubtedly show that 100% wars were atheistic in nature.

I (quite strongly) disagree.

First off, it's mere speculation. We haven't seen such a reference made in this thread yet. In addition, if you were to tell me that a war started by an invaded nation attempting to protect their land, or their people within a foreign land where they were a minority was atheistic in nature (an invaded peoples could just lay down and get trampled over), that wouldn't be much of a knock against atheism ("we are protecting ourselves by declaring war against the invaders because we don't believe in a god"). Obviously some declarations of war are justifiable.


That was sarcasm.
All of it.


First, I want to have criteria for war, criteria for religion, criteria for a secular war, and criteria for religious war all spelled out.
I haven't read the book referred to in the OP, so I don't know how far it goes in defining criteria,

The book better define the several criteria. Otherwise, hey!, it will make for a great paperweight.

but the thread is addressing the specific claim that religion causes most wars.

The claim I've read is that religion does cause wars.

Anyway, whether religion is the first cause of wars, a cause of wars, or blameless when it comes to wars, that has no bearing on the central issue, which of course is its veracity.

And I don't think it would take much google searching to see references to that specific claim. So I think a lot of the burden of criteria lies on the claimant of just that. It didn't take long before the term religion turned into Christianity and Islam in this thread.

I personally think most references where the term religion is used, the person usually has Christianity and Islam in mind. The term religion, I think in most cases, is merely a PC term to avoid appearing prejudiced by targeting a specific religion. I kind of doubt that many of them are actually thinking about the small ancient nation going to war over another small nation who insulted their national god/deity.
DanneJeRusse
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7/15/2016 12:23:54 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

During the time of the crusades, the estimated worldwide population was less than 100 million people, that would be 3% of the worlds population killed in the Crusades, this being a war not affiliated with some of those people.

On the other hand, there were actually 60 million killed in WW2 with a population of 2.3 billion, mostly who are all involved, the percentage being 2.6%, hence when you put into perspective, the Crusades did indeed kill more people.

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion.

Not true, Muhammads conquest of India is considered one of the bloodiest in all of history, this war was entirely based on religion.

These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

Baloney.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Ever hear of someone manipulating the truth to suit a religious agenda?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,320
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7/15/2016 1:39:22 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:23:54 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
On the other hand, there were actually 60 million killed in WW2 with a population of 2.3 billion, mostly who are all involved, the percentage being 2.6%, hence when you put into perspective, the Crusades did indeed kill more people.

No the Crusades did not kill mire people than WW2, no matter what twisted perspective you try to use. With this laughable per capital slant that forgot to factor length into this stupid equation, a four year war factored against a war too long to count has got figure in somehow, if not to only further make a person retarded.
MasonicSlayer
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7/15/2016 1:49:53 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:23:54 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

During the time of the crusades, the estimated worldwide population was less than 100 million people, that would be 3% of the worlds population killed in the Crusades, this being a war not affiliated with some of those people.

On the other hand, there were actually 60 million killed in WW2 with a population of 2.3 billion, mostly who are all involved, the percentage being 2.6%, hence when you put into perspective, the Crusades did indeed kill more people.

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion.

Not true, Muhammads conquest of India is considered one of the bloodiest in all of history, this war was entirely based on religion.

These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

Baloney.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Ever hear of someone manipulating the truth to suit a religious agenda?

Ever heard of a capitalist trying to make more money? Take Afghanistan for example: just another opium war. The Bush family made their original fortune selling heroin to Bayer Pharmaceutical. 2004 pain pills on the rise going upwards each year since as we took control of more and more poppy fields.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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7/15/2016 11:42:59 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 5:06:48 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Yes. All the time.

Do they also conclude governments are a bad idea?

All the time.

Tell them to do it here, cause I've never seen any of them do that.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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7/15/2016 11:58:35 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:38:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Oh dear, christianity and islam were both used for justification and the cause of most of the wars ever fought. It would be nice if the religious actually possessed the capacity for critical thought.
Governments are the creation of your god according to your great book of fairy tales.
So I guess you are assigning all wars to your god.
Go you good thing.
hahahahahaha

Intelligent, educated, Historians - In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion. That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history.

Bully - Oh dear, christianity and islam were both used for justification and the cause of most of the wars ever fought.

lol.
Jovian
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7/15/2016 12:02:50 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

That is one of the reasons organised religions came to being. To justify things like wars. There weren't many other options back then. However, what you are writing is true. But indeed many Christians do everything to absolve the Crusades, the Protestant-Catholic wars, the Atlanta bombings 1996 etc from being about Christianity, but when it comes to Islam and atheism, then there is suddenly straight connections between Islamic terrorists and Islam and also between atheist dictators (Stalin, Mao etc) and atheism.
desmac
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7/15/2016 12:05:47 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:19:55 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:12:34 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/14/2016 6:41:10 PM, Omniverse wrote:
Surely, it's the apex of intelectual honesty when even those few wars deemed religious get discarded because, supposedly, they had ulterior temporal motives behind them. I'm sure if criteria get further refined , results will undoubtedly show that 100% wars were atheistic in nature.

I (quite strongly) disagree.

First off, it's mere speculation. We haven't seen such a reference made in this thread yet. In addition, if you were to tell me that a war started by an invaded nation attempting to protect their land, or their people within a foreign land where they were a minority was atheistic in nature (an invaded peoples could just lay down and get trampled over), that wouldn't be much of a knock against atheism ("we are protecting ourselves by declaring war against the invaders because we don't believe in a god"). Obviously some declarations of war are justifiable.


First, I want to have criteria for war, criteria for religion, criteria for a secular war, and criteria for religious war all spelled out.
I haven't read the book referred to in the OP, so I don't know how far it goes in defining criteria, but the thread is addressing the specific claim that religion causes most wars. And I don't think it would take much google searching to see references to that specific claim. So I think a lot of the burden of criteria lies on the claimant of just that. It didn't take long before the term religion turned into Christianity and Islam in this thread.

I personally think most references where the term religion is used, the person usually has Christianity and Islam in mind. The term religion, I think in most cases, is merely a PC term to avoid appearing prejudiced by targeting a specific religion. I kind of doubt that many of them are actually thinking about the small ancient nation going to war over another small nation who insulted their national god/deity.

Does this figure of 1763 wars include any fought in precolonial America's or Africa?

Bump
lightseeker
Posts: 1,026
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7/15/2016 12:13:42 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Abrahimic religions don't cause war. people who lead people in the name of religion do. for example, Christianity is said to be a religion of peace, yet so called christian leaders have burned innocent people alive, dropped nuclear bombs, used chemical weaponry ...

if you want to know whether or not religions cause war, you should study those religions, not judge the actions of so called religious people as the religion itself.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
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7/15/2016 12:26:08 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:13:42 PM, lightseeker wrote:
Abrahimic religions don't cause war. people who lead people in the name of religion do. for example, Christianity is said to be a religion of peace, yet so called christian leaders have burned innocent people alive, dropped nuclear bombs, used chemical weaponry ...

if you want to know whether or not religions cause war, you should study those religions, not judge the actions of so called religious people as the religion itself.

There is a subtle difference in some of those examples, lets see if you can figure it out.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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7/15/2016 12:26:36 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:23:54 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

During the time of the crusades, the estimated worldwide population was less than 100 million people, that would be 3% of the worlds population killed in the Crusades, this being a war not affiliated with some of those people.

On the other hand, there were actually 60 million killed in WW2 with a population of 2.3 billion, mostly who are all involved, the percentage being 2.6%, hence when you put into perspective, the Crusades did indeed kill more people.

Untrue. The Crusades may have (it didn't, but for arguments sake) killed a larger percentage of the worlds population at the time, but the Crusades did not kill more people. More people died in WW2.

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion.

Not true, Muhammads conquest of India is considered one of the bloodiest in all of history, this war was entirely based on religion.

The historians say, the "WARS of the ancient world....", you cite ONE war and then claim that proves them wrong?

These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

Baloney.

Sure. We will take your one word rebuttal over the claims with logical support offered by the historians.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Ever hear of someone manipulating the truth to suit a religious agenda?

Ad Hom fallacy - The authors are wrong because they are religious. The authors are not religious. They are scholars.

In their Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod attempt a comprehensive listing of wars in history. They document 1763 wars overall, of which 123 (7%) have been identified and listed as primarily religiously motivated. Of these, religious wars account for less than 2% of all people killed in warfare. This includes 3 million during the Crusades and 3,000 during the Inquisition.

The Encyclopedia of War, edited by Gordon Martel, using the criteria that the armed conflict must involve some overt religious action, concludes that 6% of the wars listed in their encyclopedia can be labelled religious wars.
ethang5
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7/15/2016 12:33:18 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:05:47 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:19:55 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:12:34 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/14/2016 6:41:10 PM, Omniverse wrote:
Surely, it's the apex of intelectual honesty when even those few wars deemed religious get discarded because, supposedly, they had ulterior temporal motives behind them. I'm sure if criteria get further refined , results will undoubtedly show that 100% wars were atheistic in nature.

I (quite strongly) disagree.

First off, it's mere speculation. We haven't seen such a reference made in this thread yet. In addition, if you were to tell me that a war started by an invaded nation attempting to protect their land, or their people within a foreign land where they were a minority was atheistic in nature (an invaded peoples could just lay down and get trampled over), that wouldn't be much of a knock against atheism ("we are protecting ourselves by declaring war against the invaders because we don't believe in a god"). Obviously some declarations of war are justifiable.


First, I want to have criteria for war, criteria for religion, criteria for a secular war, and criteria for religious war all spelled out.
I haven't read the book referred to in the OP, so I don't know how far it goes in defining criteria, but the thread is addressing the specific claim that religion causes most wars. And I don't think it would take much google searching to see references to that specific claim. So I think a lot of the burden of criteria lies on the claimant of just that. It didn't take long before the term religion turned into Christianity and Islam in this thread.

I personally think most references where the term religion is used, the person usually has Christianity and Islam in mind. The term religion, I think in most cases, is merely a PC term to avoid appearing prejudiced by targeting a specific religion. I kind of doubt that many of them are actually thinking about the small ancient nation going to war over another small nation who insulted their national god/deity.

Does this figure of 1763 wars include any fought in precolonial America's or Africa?

Bump

Encyclopedia of Wars - 3 Volume of Set $225.00
Describes the military aspect of wars - the causes of conflict, an enumeration of battles, and a summary of the outcome(s); also the social and political context in which the wars occurred. In three comprehensive volumes and approximately 2,000 A-to-Z entries this encyclopedia covers major wars, rebellions, and revolutions from 3,500 BCE.
https://www.amazon.com...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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7/15/2016 12:38:29 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:26:36 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:23:54 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

During the time of the crusades, the estimated worldwide population was less than 100 million people, that would be 3% of the worlds population killed in the Crusades, this being a war not affiliated with some of those people.

On the other hand, there were actually 60 million killed in WW2 with a population of 2.3 billion, mostly who are all involved, the percentage being 2.6%, hence when you put into perspective, the Crusades did indeed kill more people.

Untrue. The Crusades may have (it didn't, but for arguments sake) killed a larger percentage of the worlds population at the time, but the Crusades did not kill more people. More people died in WW2.

I just showed you the per capita statistics, they are indeed true. If we remove both North and South America and Australia, as they were not discovered yet, the per capita statistic soars.

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion.

Not true, Muhammads conquest of India is considered one of the bloodiest in all of history, this war was entirely based on religion.

The historians say, the "WARS of the ancient world....", you cite ONE war and then claim that proves them wrong?

No, just proves YOU are wrong.

These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

Baloney.

Sure. We will take your one word rebuttal over the claims with logical support offered by the historians.

You provided no citations for YOUR claims.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Ever hear of someone manipulating the truth to suit a religious agenda?

Ad Hom fallacy - The authors are wrong because they are religious. The authors are not religious. They are scholars.

We're talking about YOU manipulating the truth.

In their Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod attempt a comprehensive listing of wars in history. They document 1763 wars overall, of which 123 (7%) have been identified and listed as primarily religiously motivated. Of these, religious wars account for less than 2% of all people killed in warfare.

That would be a per capita statistic, which you have already rejected, yet now you use it for your agenda.

This includes 3 million during the Crusades and 3,000 during the Inquisition.

The Encyclopedia of War, edited by Gordon Martel, using the criteria that the armed conflict must involve some overt religious action, concludes that 6% of the wars listed in their encyclopedia can be labelled religious wars.

So, we can conclude religion does indeed cause wars.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
desmac
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7/15/2016 12:38:38 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:33:18 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:05:47 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:19:55 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/14/2016 8:12:34 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/14/2016 6:41:10 PM, Omniverse wrote:
Surely, it's the apex of intelectual honesty when even those few wars deemed religious get discarded because, supposedly, they had ulterior temporal motives behind them. I'm sure if criteria get further refined , results will undoubtedly show that 100% wars were atheistic in nature.

I (quite strongly) disagree.

First off, it's mere speculation. We haven't seen such a reference made in this thread yet. In addition, if you were to tell me that a war started by an invaded nation attempting to protect their land, or their people within a foreign land where they were a minority was atheistic in nature (an invaded peoples could just lay down and get trampled over), that wouldn't be much of a knock against atheism ("we are protecting ourselves by declaring war against the invaders because we don't believe in a god"). Obviously some declarations of war are justifiable.


First, I want to have criteria for war, criteria for religion, criteria for a secular war, and criteria for religious war all spelled out.
I haven't read the book referred to in the OP, so I don't know how far it goes in defining criteria, but the thread is addressing the specific claim that religion causes most wars. And I don't think it would take much google searching to see references to that specific claim. So I think a lot of the burden of criteria lies on the claimant of just that. It didn't take long before the term religion turned into Christianity and Islam in this thread.

I personally think most references where the term religion is used, the person usually has Christianity and Islam in mind. The term religion, I think in most cases, is merely a PC term to avoid appearing prejudiced by targeting a specific religion. I kind of doubt that many of them are actually thinking about the small ancient nation going to war over another small nation who insulted their national god/deity.

Does this figure of 1763 wars include any fought in precolonial America's or Africa?

Bump

Encyclopedia of Wars - 3 Volume of Set $225.00
Describes the military aspect of wars - the causes of conflict, an enumeration of battles, and a summary of the outcome(s); also the social and political context in which the wars occurred. In three comprehensive volumes and approximately 2,000 A-to-Z entries this encyclopedia covers major wars, rebellions, and revolutions from 3,500 BCE.
https://www.amazon.com...

Many thanks for the advert. Any chance of an answer to my question?
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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7/15/2016 12:46:40 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:02:50 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

That is one of the reasons organised religions came to being. To justify things like wars.

I get your point, but I think it is more that the rulers helped religions to organize in order to take advantage of their ability to motivate large numbers of people quickly. But religions did not organize in order to have excuses for war. Subtle but profound difference.

There weren't many other options back then. However, what you are writing is true. But indeed many Christians do everything to absolve the Crusades, the Protestant-Catholic wars, the Atlanta bombings 1996 etc from being about Christianity,

No war can ever be "absolved", but I get your point. I guess "about Christianity" means "motivated by"... to you?

... but when it comes to Islam and atheism, then there is suddenly straight connections between Islamic terrorists and Islam and also between atheist dictators (Stalin, Mao etc) and atheism.

Yes, sometimes the bias of the Christian makes it seem that way. But there are differences that are relevant. For example, the Bible records wars, but the Koran has universal directions to Muslims to kill all non-believers.

That is why the same excuse used by Christians and Muslims today, (Those people aren't real Muslim/Christian, they follow a perverted interpretation) covers the Muslim less due to the direct commands in the Koran to ALL Muslims.
ethang5
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7/15/2016 1:07:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 12:38:29 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:26:36 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:23:54 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/14/2016 4:26:08 PM, ethang5 wrote:
In the publication, Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod have documented recorded warfare. There have been a total of 1763 wars, and of that total just 123 have been put into the classification of having anything to do with religion.

That means that religious wars only account for 7 percent of all wars in human history. It"s estimated that as many as three million people were slaughtered in the Roman Catholic Crusades and in their horrific Inquisition. But 95 million died in the secular wars of World War 1 and World War 2.
So a little study shows that history doesn't support the belief that religion is the major cause of war:

During the time of the crusades, the estimated worldwide population was less than 100 million people, that would be 3% of the worlds population killed in the Crusades, this being a war not affiliated with some of those people.

On the other hand, there were actually 60 million killed in WW2 with a population of 2.3 billion, mostly who are all involved, the percentage being 2.6%, hence when you put into perspective, the Crusades did indeed kill more people.

Untrue. The Crusades may have (it didn't, but for arguments sake) killed a larger percentage of the worlds population at the time, but the Crusades did not kill more people. More people died in WW2.

I just showed you the per capita statistics, they are indeed true.

No. You don't know what "per capita" means. You showed a ratio. Your claim is that going by the ratio of people who died in the Crusades against the worlds population at the time, a greater percentage of the worlds population died in the crusades than in WW2 and thus, more people died in the Crusades than in WW2. This claim is untrue.

If we remove both North and South America and Australia, as they were not discovered yet, the per capita statistic soars.

Again, you really need to look up "per capita". But this is still untrue. The ratio between people dying in the war to total world population MAY be higher with the Crusades, but the actual number of people who died in WW2 is greater than the number of those who died in the crusades.

"The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion.

Not true, Muhammads conquest of India is considered one of the bloodiest in all of history, this war was entirely based on religion.

The historians say, the "WARS of the ancient world....", you cite ONE war and then claim that proves them wrong?

No, just proves YOU are wrong.

WHOOOOOOSH!!!! lol

These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

Baloney.

Sure. We will take your one word rebuttal over the claims with logical support offered by the historians.

You provided no citations for YOUR claims.

I made no claims. The authors did. And I did not mention citations, I mentioned support. Citations are not necessarily support.

"Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wars did not get frequent, organized, and wanton till there were governments. In fact, virtually every war in human history has been initiated, sustained, and pushed forward by a government. Governments elevated wars into mindless organized slaughter factories.

Ever hear an atheist rail against governments for causing wars?

Ever hear of someone manipulating the truth to suit a religious agenda?

Ad Hom fallacy - The authors are wrong because they are religious. The authors are not religious. They are scholars.

We're talking about YOU manipulating the truth.

lol. Do you mean I took their book and changed it to show that only 7% of all wars were religious?

In their Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod attempt a comprehensive listing of wars in history. They document 1763 wars overall, of which 123 (7%) have been identified and listed as primarily religiously motivated. Of these, religious wars account for less than 2% of all people killed in warfare.

That would be a per capita statistic, which you have already rejected, yet now you use it for your agenda.

Again, you don't know what "per capita" means. I did not reject it, I simply said you don't know what it means.

This includes 3 million during the Crusades and 3,000 during the Inquisition.

The Encyclopedia of War, edited by Gordon Martel, using the criteria that the armed conflict must involve some overt religious action, concludes that 6% of the wars listed in their encyclopedia can be labelled religious wars.

So, we can conclude religion does indeed cause wars.

The topic of the thread is, "Religion Caused Most Wars?

The answer to that question is "No". And the people who go around claiming that most wars have been caused by religion are just wrong.