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A question for Jews, Christians and Muslims

Fatihah
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7/15/2016 1:13:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

Response: Slavery, in regards to using force upon someone to obey you for an unjust reason, is prohibited in Islam.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 4:49:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 1:13:58 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

Response: Slavery, in regards to using force upon someone to obey you for an unjust reason, is prohibited in Islam.

Well, that's not the definition of slavery. Slavery means one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc. What is called in the quran "whom your right hand possesses". In your view, is that right or wrong?
Fatihah
Posts: 9,190
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7/15/2016 5:13:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 4:49:24 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 1:13:58 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

Response: Slavery, in regards to using force upon someone to obey you for an unjust reason, is prohibited in Islam.

Well, that's not the definition of slavery. Slavery means one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc. What is called in the quran "whom your right hand possesses". In your view, is that right or wrong?

Response: That is the definition of slavery. It's no different than what you just stated. Unless you call owning people and selling them, etc.. as a just thing to do, then my definition is accurate.

As for the rest, A right hand possession in the Qur'an is right. It derives from the Arabic "ma malakat amainakum", meaning a rightful possession. It does not literally mean slave. A rightful possession can refer to a slave or material property, yet it clearly says a "rightful" possession. So Islam allows slaves under certain conditions and one condition is to treat them as your brother and not to use force and to grant them freedom if they are just people.
bulproof
Posts: 28,851
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7/15/2016 5:17:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 5:13:35 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 4:49:24 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 1:13:58 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

Response: Slavery, in regards to using force upon someone to obey you for an unjust reason, is prohibited in Islam.

Well, that's not the definition of slavery. Slavery means one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc. What is called in the quran "whom your right hand possesses". In your view, is that right or wrong?

Response: That is the definition of slavery. It's no different than what you just stated. Unless you call owning people and selling them, etc.. as a just thing to do, then my definition is accurate.

As for the rest, A right hand possession in the Qur'an is right. It derives from the Arabic "ma malakat amainakum", meaning a rightful possession. It does not literally mean slave. A rightful possession can refer to a slave or material property, yet it clearly says a "rightful" possession. So Islam allows slaves under certain conditions and one condition is to treat them as your brother and not to use force and to grant them freedom if they are just people.
meaning a rightful possession
Meaning slaves like ISIL claim.
Dumb as dogshit aren't you muslims.
No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means.
George Bernard Shaw
David_Debates
Posts: 297
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7/15/2016 5:24:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

As you defined it: one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc..

As a Catholic, my answer is no. The Bible does not outlaw debtor's "slavery," (working to pay of a debt) but it does not condone the type of slavery you mentioned.
For those unfamiliar with debtor's slavery, think of it like this. You go out to eat, but you have no money. Instead of arresting you, the manager makes an offer: work for us, unpaid, to pay of your debt. Wash dishes for 2 hours, assist the janitor, and so on.
That's not slavery according to the definition above, but it is making you bound to finish your task. You aren't free until you have paid off your debt.
People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do.
-Black Science Man
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 5:34:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 5:24:50 PM, David_Debates wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

As you defined it: one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc..

As a Catholic, my answer is no. The Bible does not outlaw debtor's "slavery," (working to pay of a debt) but it does not condone the type of slavery you mentioned.
For those unfamiliar with debtor's slavery, think of it like this. You go out to eat, but you have no money. Instead of arresting you, the manager makes an offer: work for us, unpaid, to pay of your debt. Wash dishes for 2 hours, assist the janitor, and so on.
That's not slavery according to the definition above, but it is making you bound to finish your task. You aren't free until you have paid off your debt.

Actually, yes, it does. It not only condones it; it specifically authorizes it. Not just indentured servitude, but lifelong chattel slavery. Maybe you're not familiar with the verse?

This is why Popes owned slaves. Their Bible said it was O.K. to do so.

So, if I follow you, something that your God specifically authorizes is immoral and wrong?
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 5:35:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 5:13:35 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 4:49:24 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 1:13:58 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

Response: Slavery, in regards to using force upon someone to obey you for an unjust reason, is prohibited in Islam.

Well, that's not the definition of slavery. Slavery means one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc. What is called in the quran "whom your right hand possesses". In your view, is that right or wrong?

Response: That is the definition of slavery. It's no different than what you just stated. Unless you call owning people and selling them, etc.. as a just thing to do, then my definition is accurate.

As for the rest, A right hand possession in the Qur'an is right. It derives from the Arabic "ma malakat amainakum", meaning a rightful possession. It does not literally mean slave. A rightful possession can refer to a slave or material property, yet it clearly says a "rightful" possession. So Islam allows slaves under certain conditions and one condition is to treat them as your brother and not to use force and to grant them freedom if they are just people.

OK so you believe that slavery is wrong, even though the Quran allows it?
Fatihah
Posts: 9,190
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7/15/2016 5:40:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 5:35:09 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:13:35 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 4:49:24 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 1:13:58 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

Response: Slavery, in regards to using force upon someone to obey you for an unjust reason, is prohibited in Islam.

Well, that's not the definition of slavery. Slavery means one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc. What is called in the quran "whom your right hand possesses". In your view, is that right or wrong?

Response: That is the definition of slavery. It's no different than what you just stated. Unless you call owning people and selling them, etc.. as a just thing to do, then my definition is accurate.

As for the rest, A right hand possession in the Qur'an is right. It derives from the Arabic "ma malakat amainakum", meaning a rightful possession. It does not literally mean slave. A rightful possession can refer to a slave or material property, yet it clearly says a "rightful" possession. So Islam allows slaves under certain conditions and one condition is to treat them as your brother and not to use force and to grant them freedom if they are just people.

OK so you believe that slavery is wrong, even though the Quran allows it?

Response: The Qur'an allows just slavery. Not unjust slavery. Slavery in which one is forced to obey because of racism like the white man did Africans is unjust. Slavery in which I force you to obey me because you owe me is unjust. Yet slavery in which you lose your freedom because you are a molester and must work and show good behavior before being free again, while being treated with kindness and respect, is just. Such slavery is okay.

Slavery is not wrong in general. It is wrong depending on the conditions.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 5:45:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 5:40:18 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:35:09 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:13:35 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 4:49:24 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 1:13:58 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

Response: Slavery, in regards to using force upon someone to obey you for an unjust reason, is prohibited in Islam.

Well, that's not the definition of slavery. Slavery means one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc. What is called in the quran "whom your right hand possesses". In your view, is that right or wrong?

Response: That is the definition of slavery. It's no different than what you just stated. Unless you call owning people and selling them, etc.. as a just thing to do, then my definition is accurate.

As for the rest, A right hand possession in the Qur'an is right. It derives from the Arabic "ma malakat amainakum", meaning a rightful possession. It does not literally mean slave. A rightful possession can refer to a slave or material property, yet it clearly says a "rightful" possession. So Islam allows slaves under certain conditions and one condition is to treat them as your brother and not to use force and to grant them freedom if they are just people.

OK so you believe that slavery is wrong, even though the Quran allows it?

Response: The Qur'an allows just slavery. Not unjust slavery. Slavery in which one is forced to obey because of racism like the white man did Africans is unjust. Slavery in which I force you to obey me because you owe me is unjust. Yet slavery in which you lose your freedom because you are a molester and must work and show good behavior before being free again, while being treated with kindness and respect, is just. Such slavery is okay.

Slavery is not wrong in general. It is wrong depending on the conditions.

OK so contrary to what you began by saying, you think some slavery is right, and some is wrong, correct? To you, sometimes it is just for one person to own another, and sometimes it is not, right?
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 5:46:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 5:17:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:13:35 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 4:49:24 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 1:13:58 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

Response: Slavery, in regards to using force upon someone to obey you for an unjust reason, is prohibited in Islam.

Well, that's not the definition of slavery. Slavery means one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc. What is called in the quran "whom your right hand possesses". In your view, is that right or wrong?

Response: That is the definition of slavery. It's no different than what you just stated. Unless you call owning people and selling them, etc.. as a just thing to do, then my definition is accurate.

As for the rest, A right hand possession in the Qur'an is right. It derives from the Arabic "ma malakat amainakum", meaning a rightful possession. It does not literally mean slave. A rightful possession can refer to a slave or material property, yet it clearly says a "rightful" possession. So Islam allows slaves under certain conditions and one condition is to treat them as your brother and not to use force and to grant them freedom if they are just people.
meaning a rightful possession
Meaning slaves like ISIL claim.
Dumb as dogshit aren't you muslims.

Please try to focus on the issues and not call names; thank you.
David_Debates
Posts: 297
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7/15/2016 6:01:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 5:34:24 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:24:50 PM, David_Debates wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

As you defined it: one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc..

As a Catholic, my answer is no. The Bible does not outlaw debtor's "slavery," (working to pay of a debt) but it does not condone the type of slavery you mentioned.
For those unfamiliar with debtor's slavery, think of it like this. You go out to eat, but you have no money. Instead of arresting you, the manager makes an offer: work for us, unpaid, to pay of your debt. Wash dishes for 2 hours, assist the janitor, and so on.
That's not slavery according to the definition above, but it is making you bound to finish your task. You aren't free until you have paid off your debt.

Actually, yes, it does. It not only condones it; it specifically authorizes it. Not just indentured servitude, but lifelong chattel slavery. Maybe you're not familiar with the verse?

Man cannot be looked upon as property. If someone was caught selling a person, they would be put to death. This is wildly different from 17th century slavery, where we captured Africans and forced them into labor.
"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

This is why Popes owned slaves. Their Bible said it was O.K. to do so.

Which Popes owned slaves, per your definition above?

So, if I follow you, something that your God specifically authorizes is immoral and wrong?

Once again, slavery, as you've defined it above, is not condoned in the Bible. The slavery you are mentioning is called indentured slavery. "In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor." This is what I reference when I talked about debtor's slavery.
People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do.
-Black Science Man
David_Debates
Posts: 297
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7/15/2016 6:07:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 6:01:38 PM, David_Debates wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:34:24 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:24:50 PM, David_Debates wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

As you defined it: one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc..

As a Catholic, my answer is no. The Bible does not outlaw debtor's "slavery," (working to pay of a debt) but it does not condone the type of slavery you mentioned.
For those unfamiliar with debtor's slavery, think of it like this. You go out to eat, but you have no money. Instead of arresting you, the manager makes an offer: work for us, unpaid, to pay of your debt. Wash dishes for 2 hours, assist the janitor, and so on.
That's not slavery according to the definition above, but it is making you bound to finish your task. You aren't free until you have paid off your debt.

Actually, yes, it does. It not only condones it; it specifically authorizes it. Not just indentured servitude, but lifelong chattel slavery. Maybe you're not familiar with the verse?

Man cannot be looked upon as property. If someone was caught selling a person, they would be put to death. This is wildly different from 17th century slavery, where we captured Africans and forced them into labor.
"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

This is why Popes owned slaves. Their Bible said it was O.K. to do so.

Which Popes owned slaves, per your definition above?

So, if I follow you, something that your God specifically authorizes is immoral and wrong?

Once again, slavery, as you've defined it above, is not condoned in the Bible. The slavery you are mentioning is called indentured slavery. "In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor." This is what I reference when I talked about debtor's slavery.

Source:
http://www.godandscience.org...
People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do.
-Black Science Man
Fatihah
Posts: 9,190
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7/15/2016 6:13:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 5:45:10 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:40:18 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:35:09 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:13:35 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 4:49:24 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 1:13:58 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

Response: Slavery, in regards to using force upon someone to obey you for an unjust reason, is prohibited in Islam.

Well, that's not the definition of slavery. Slavery means one person owning another as property that they can buy, sell, command, etc. What is called in the quran "whom your right hand possesses". In your view, is that right or wrong?

Response: That is the definition of slavery. It's no different than what you just stated. Unless you call owning people and selling them, etc.. as a just thing to do, then my definition is accurate.

As for the rest, A right hand possession in the Qur'an is right. It derives from the Arabic "ma malakat amainakum", meaning a rightful possession. It does not literally mean slave. A rightful possession can refer to a slave or material property, yet it clearly says a "rightful" possession. So Islam allows slaves under certain conditions and one condition is to treat them as your brother and not to use force and to grant them freedom if they are just people.

OK so you believe that slavery is wrong, even though the Quran allows it?

Response: The Qur'an allows just slavery. Not unjust slavery. Slavery in which one is forced to obey because of racism like the white man did Africans is unjust. Slavery in which I force you to obey me because you owe me is unjust. Yet slavery in which you lose your freedom because you are a molester and must work and show good behavior before being free again, while being treated with kindness and respect, is just. Such slavery is okay.

Slavery is not wrong in general. It is wrong depending on the conditions.

OK so contrary to what you began by saying, you think some slavery is right, and some is wrong, correct? To you, sometimes it is just for one person to own another, and sometimes it is not, right?

Response: Wrong. It is okay for the authority to prohibit the freedom of a person in society if they are guilty of a crime, until they show good behavior, and the authority must treat them with kindness and respect.
Fatihah
Posts: 9,190
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7/15/2016 6:35:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 5:45:10 PM, Les_Rong wrote:

OK so contrary to what you began by saying, you think some slavery is right, and some is wrong, correct? To you, sometimes it is just for one person to own another, and sometimes it is not, right?

Response: Let me better address what seems to be your contention. When you read about owning slaves by Muhammad or Muslims in Islam and the Qur'an. The slaves Muhammad (owned) were slaves that he brought from a another person. Once brought, he cared for them as his brother and gave them work. When the slave showed good behavior, they had the right to grant freedom. Hence, Muhammad owned slaves by buying them from others and giving them their freedom if they showed to be good people and civilized to be let free into society and not once mistreated them during the whole process.

Muslims also owned slaves from right hand possessions. These were prisoners of war where it was already a custom to enslave the people once they were defeated. Not an Islamic teaching. This was a custom before Islam. So what Muhammad (saw) did was put conditions on the custom, and that was to treat them like brothers and not to harm them and give them heir freedom if they show to be good people.

Thus the owning of slaves is just in Islam as described above.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 6:56:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 6:35:06 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:45:10 PM, Les_Rong wrote:

OK so contrary to what you began by saying, you think some slavery is right, and some is wrong, correct? To you, sometimes it is just for one person to own another, and sometimes it is not, right?

Response: Let me better address what seems to be your contention. When you read about owning slaves by Muhammad or Muslims in Islam and the Qur'an. The slaves Muhammad (owned) were slaves that he brought from a another person. Once brought, he cared for them as his brother and gave them work. When the slave showed good behavior, they had the right to grant freedom. Hence, Muhammad owned slaves by buying them from others and giving them their freedom if they showed to be good people and civilized to be let free into society and not once mistreated them during the whole process.

Muslims also owned slaves from right hand possessions. These were prisoners of war where it was already a custom to enslave the people once they were defeated. Not an Islamic teaching. This was a custom before Islam. So what Muhammad (saw) did was put conditions on the custom, and that was to treat them like brothers and not to harm them and give them heir freedom if they show to be good people.

Thus the owning of slaves is just in Islam as described above.

OK so, in your view, if you buy your slaves from someone else, or capture them in war, then that slavery is moral, and should be allowed?
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 6:58:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
OK so you believe that slavery is wrong, even though the Quran allows it?

Response: The Qur'an allows just slavery. Not unjust slavery. Slavery in which one is forced to obey because of racism like the white man did Africans is unjust. Slavery in which I force you to obey me because you owe me is unjust. Yet slavery in which you lose your freedom because you are a molester and must work and show good behavior before being free again, while being treated with kindness and respect, is just. Such slavery is okay.

So slavery is ok as a punishment for crime, but not otherwise? For example, if you buy your slave from someone else?

Slavery is not wrong in general. It is wrong depending on the conditions.

OK so contrary to what you began by saying, you think some slavery is right, and some is wrong, correct? To you, sometimes it is just for one person to own another, and sometimes it is not, right?

Response: Wrong. It is okay for the authority to prohibit the freedom of a person in society if they are guilty of a crime, until they show good behavior, and the authority must treat them with kindness and respect.

So slavery is only ok if ordered by the government as punishment for a crime?

Your answers seem wildly inconsistent to me. So far I've got:

Slavery is wrong.

Slavery is ok if you buy or capture your slaves.

Slavery is ok as punishment for a crime.

Can you clarify?
Looncall
Posts: 707
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7/15/2016 7:07:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 6:35:06 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 5:45:10 PM, Les_Rong wrote:

OK so contrary to what you began by saying, you think some slavery is right, and some is wrong, correct? To you, sometimes it is just for one person to own another, and sometimes it is not, right?

Response: Let me better address what seems to be your contention. When you read about owning slaves by Muhammad or Muslims in Islam and the Qur'an. The slaves Muhammad (owned) were slaves that he brought from a another person. Once brought, he cared for them as his brother and gave them work. When the slave showed good behavior, they had the right to grant freedom. Hence, Muhammad owned slaves by buying them from others and giving them their freedom if they showed to be good people and civilized to be let free into society and not once mistreated them during the whole process.

Muslims also owned slaves from right hand possessions. These were prisoners of war where it was already a custom to enslave the people once they were defeated. Not an Islamic teaching. This was a custom before Islam. So what Muhammad (saw) did was put conditions on the custom, and that was to treat them like brothers and not to harm them and give them heir freedom if they show to be good people.

Thus the owning of slaves is just in Islam as described above.

Funny how enthusiastic muslims like the Sudanese, ISIS and Boko Haram seem to have missed the memo.

Somehow, I don't see how the customs of the Barbary states, who raided for slaves throughout the Mediterranean and as far as Iceland and worked them to death, fit your description. This until quite modern times.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
Fatihah
Posts: 9,190
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7/15/2016 7:18:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 6:56:04 PM, Les_Rong wrote:

OK so, in your view, if you buy your slaves from someone else, or capture them in war, then that slavery is moral, and should be allowed?

Response: If you buy a slave and treat them with kindness and do not harm them and set them free if they show to be good people when requested is allowed.
Fatihah
Posts: 9,190
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7/15/2016 7:22:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 7:07:02 PM, Looncall wrote:

Funny how enthusiastic muslims like the Sudanese, ISIS and Boko Haram seem to have missed the memo.

Somehow, I don't see how the customs of the Barbary states, who raided for slaves throughout the Mediterranean and as far as Iceland and worked them to death, fit your description. This until quite modern times.

Response: Funny how the words treat them kindly and show no harm means "work them to death" according to you. Quite interesting how as you talk you expose your own demeaning ideology. Not Islam.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 7:42:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 7:18:53 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 6:56:04 PM, Les_Rong wrote:

OK so, in your view, if you buy your slaves from someone else, or capture them in war, then that slavery is moral, and should be allowed?

Response: If you buy a slave and treat them with kindness and do not harm them and set them free if they show to be good people when requested is allowed.

Got you, thank you. And this is an Islamic moral view, correct?
Fatihah
Posts: 9,190
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7/15/2016 7:55:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 7:42:53 PM, Les_Rong wrote:

Got you, thank you. And this is an Islamic moral view, correct?

Response: Yes.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 8:00:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 7:55:18 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 7:42:53 PM, Les_Rong wrote:

Got you, thank you. And this is an Islamic moral view, correct?

Response: Yes.

So just to summarize and highlight for the non-Muslims, under Islam, it is moral to buy and sell other people as property, provided you treat them "kindly," (how can it be kind to treat someone else as property?) and, if you think they deserve it, you eventually free them.

Thanks to Fatihah.

Christians? Jews? Your views?
Fatihah
Posts: 9,190
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7/15/2016 8:02:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 8:00:10 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 7:55:18 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 7:42:53 PM, Les_Rong wrote:

Got you, thank you. And this is an Islamic moral view, correct?

Response: Yes.

So just to summarize and highlight for the non-Muslims, under Islam, it is moral to buy and sell other people as property, provided you treat them "kindly," (how can it be kind to treat someone else as property?) and, if you think they deserve it, you eventually free them.

Thanks to Fatihah.

Christians? Jews? Your views?

Response: Wrong. To summarize, If you buy a slave and treat them with kindness and do not harm them and set them free if they show to be good people when requested is allowed.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 3,272
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7/15/2016 8:20:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 8:00:10 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
At 7/15/2016 7:55:18 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/15/2016 7:42:53 PM, Les_Rong wrote:

Got you, thank you. And this is an Islamic moral view, correct?

Response: Yes.

So just to summarize and highlight for the non-Muslims, under Islam, it is moral to buy and sell other people as property, provided you treat them "kindly," (how can it be kind to treat someone else as property?) and, if you think they deserve it, you eventually free them.

Thanks to Fatihah.

Christians? Jews? Your views?

If you're trying to justify slavery as it was used in the old world to fit well in meaning with the world of today, it won't work. Today we have corporations that enslave us with mountains of work with meager pay. That you would even begin to justify such bondage that morphs through the ages while unchanged in principle, yet through form stays current to the times, shows how easily manipulated you've become.
Les_Rong
Posts: 341
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7/15/2016 8:27:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Christians? Jews? Your views?

If you're trying to justify slavery as it was used in the old world to fit well in meaning with the world of today, it won't work. Today we have corporations that enslave us with mountains of work with meager pay. That you would even begin to justify such bondage that morphs through the ages while unchanged in principle, yet through form stays current to the times, shows how easily manipulated you've become.

I'm not trying to justify anything, and I'm not talking about employment. I'm asking you your view about chattel slavery. Is it right or wrong, and should it be allowed?
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/15/2016 8:35:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

I'm curious if you actually think slavery is outlawed in todays day and age?
Biblical slavery has 0 difference than the modern credit system. It was actually better though because after 7 years your debt was automatically wiped out.
MasonicSlayer
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7/15/2016 8:38:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 8:27:15 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
Christians? Jews? Your views?

If you're trying to justify slavery as it was used in the old world to fit well in meaning with the world of today, it won't work. Today we have corporations that enslave us with mountains of work with meager pay. That you would even begin to justify such bondage that morphs through the ages while unchanged in principle, yet through form stays current to the times, shows how easily manipulated you've become.

I'm not trying to justify anything, and I'm not talking about employment. I'm asking you your view about chattel slavery. Is it right or wrong, and should it be allowed?

You were born a slave. Nothing has changed except maybe better dental care. Screw them all. I want war.
MasonicSlayer
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7/15/2016 8:57:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
He's not talking about employment, he says. He's talking about slavery. What I'm talking about is what's the difference? The difference is now the slave thinks he is free. But the only true freedom the slave has is the choice of chains. If you think you can quit a job to work for a different company, chances are you're wrong. Companies are owned by other companies, and those companies owned by other companies. On and on the ownership if companies can be traced up the ladder, as mergers and takeovers liquidate and consolidate your ownership.
dsjpk5
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7/15/2016 9:10:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/15/2016 12:55:03 PM, Les_Rong wrote:
In your view, should slavery be allowed or prohibited? Is it right, or wrong?

As a Catholic Christian, I say forcing someone to do your bidding is immoral, and should be prohibited.