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Children, Critical Thinking and Religion

matt8800
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7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/16/2016 10:08:42 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I can only speak from personal experience. My parents put it in me to learn and think for myself. I was raised Christian. I had my breaking away and questioning of the faith, but I came back with a clear conscience and sincerity of faith.

One of my great secrets is that I never presume to know anything. Even if I think I understand something already, I'm not too prideful to review and go over it again. My faith has only been made stronger by experience.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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7/17/2016 1:29:45 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Matt, a perfect illustration of how critical thinking fails in those who have been indoctrinated into religion. They are so completely deluded that they insist they have open minds. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
dee-em
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7/17/2016 1:34:46 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Here is a perfect example of SaT's hypocrisy from post #2 of the "God is Dead" thread:

Vain imaginings of a petulant ignoramus.

Notice how open-minded and amenable to other ideas SAT is?

What a fraud.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/17/2016 5:23:29 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

Not as well it seems, Matt. Published in 2014, some research from Boston University shows that among 5- and 6- year-olds, children raised in religious doctrine have more difficulty telling fact from fiction than children raised without. [http://www.bu.edu...]

Meanwhile, a study published in 2012 reports that your ability to think analytically seems to also predict whether you also believe or disbelieve in religion. [http://www2.psych.ubc.ca...] Here's one such test:

Q: If a baseball and bat cost $110, and the bat costs $100 more than the ball, how much does the ball cost?

A: If you answered $10 you are inclined to believe in religion. If you answered $5 you are inclined to disbelieve.

An informal report can be found in Psychology Today at: [https://www.psychologytoday.com...]
SJM
Posts: 140
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7/17/2016 6:28:44 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 5:23:29 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

Not as well it seems, Matt. Published in 2014, some research from Boston University shows that among 5- and 6- year-olds, children raised in religious doctrine have more difficulty telling fact from fiction than children raised without. [http://www.bu.edu...]

Meanwhile, a study published in 2012 reports that your ability to think analytically seems to also predict whether you also believe or disbelieve in religion. [http://www2.psych.ubc.ca...] Here's one such test:

Q: If a baseball and bat cost $110, and the bat costs $100 more than the ball, how much does the ball cost?

A: If you answered $10 you are inclined to believe in religion. If you answered $5 you are inclined to disbelieve.

An informal report can be found in Psychology Today at: [https://www.psychologytoday.com...]

What's baseball?
Hitler- If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.

Stalin- Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.

Machiavelli- It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both.

Ivan the Terrible- "I will not see the destruction of the Christian converts who are loyal to me, and to my last breath I will fight for the Orthodox faith
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/17/2016 6:35:58 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 6:28:44 AM, SJM wrote:
At 7/17/2016 5:23:29 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

Not as well it seems, Matt. Published in 2014, some research from Boston University shows that among 5- and 6- year-olds, children raised in religious doctrine have more difficulty telling fact from fiction than children raised without. [http://www.bu.edu...]

Meanwhile, a study published in 2012 reports that your ability to think analytically seems to also predict whether you also believe or disbelieve in religion. [http://www2.psych.ubc.ca...] Here's one such test:

Q: If a baseball and bat cost $110, and the bat costs $100 more than the ball, how much does the ball cost?

A: If you answered $10 you are inclined to believe in religion. If you answered $5 you are inclined to disbelieve.

An informal report can be found in Psychology Today at: [https://www.psychologytoday.com...]

What's baseball?

$110 plus mitts.

(You're welcome! :D)
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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7/17/2016 6:38:38 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 5:23:29 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

Not as well it seems, Matt. Published in 2014, some research from Boston University shows that among 5- and 6- year-olds, children raised in religious doctrine have more difficulty telling fact from fiction than children raised without. [http://www.bu.edu...]

Meanwhile, a study published in 2012 reports that your ability to think analytically seems to also predict whether you also believe or disbelieve in religion. [http://www2.psych.ubc.ca...] Here's one such test:

Q: If a baseball and bat cost $110, and the bat costs $100 more than the ball, how much does the ball cost?

A: If you answered $10 you are inclined to believe in religion. If you answered $5 you are inclined to disbelieve.

An informal report can be found in Psychology Today at: [https://www.psychologytoday.com...]

For the smartest person in this forum ,
That's just silly. Your being silly now.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/17/2016 9:34:44 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 10:08:42 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I can only speak from personal experience. My parents put it in me to learn and think for myself. I was raised Christian. I had my breaking away and questioning of the faith, but I came back with a clear conscience and sincerity of faith.

One of my great secrets is that I never presume to know anything. Even if I think I understand something already, I'm not too prideful to review and go over it again. My faith has only been made stronger by experience.

More lies.
Willows
Posts: 2,058
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7/17/2016 12:55:57 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 10:08:42 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I can only speak from personal experience. My parents put it in me to learn and think for myself. I was raised Christian. I had my breaking away and questioning of the faith, but I came back with a clear conscience and sincerity of faith.

One of my great secrets is that I never presume to know anything. Even if I think I understand something already, I'm not too prideful to review and go over it again. My faith has only been made stronger by experience.

Oh boy! We got a live one here.
You said it.....Your faith has been made stronger by experience alright....experience in not only presuming not to know anything but in not needing to know anything. All your thinking is done for you; your morals, how to eat, what to eat, who to love, who to hate, what to do with your genitals, even the finer points of what and what not to do with your foreskin. All the answers are there, you need not look anywhere else.
Just keep wearing those kneepads.
tarantula
Posts: 855
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7/17/2016 1:00:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

We did. We encouraged our children to think for themselves about religion. My husband and I are non believers, our kids are Christians, very moderate ones, thank goodness.
matt8800
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7/17/2016 7:10:14 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 10:08:42 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I can only speak from personal experience. My parents put it in me to learn and think for myself. I was raised Christian. I had my breaking away and questioning of the faith, but I came back with a clear conscience and sincerity of faith.

One of my great secrets is that I never presume to know anything. Even if I think I understand something already, I'm not too prideful to review and go over it again. My faith has only been made stronger by experience.

You have stated many times that you know for a fact that your 'ultimate reality' exists yet you have not provided any empirical evidence. A critical thinker would say they suspect at most. You are definitely no critical thinker.
12_13
Posts: 1,362
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7/17/2016 7:18:00 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

One can and I think should be critical, if he is disciple of Jesus (Christian)^. That is because:

Instead, test everything. Hold on to what is good, but keep away from every kind of evil.
First Epistle to the Thessalonians 5:21

It would be nice, if science believers also would be critical about their beliefs.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Why do atheists deny this? They are perverse in their thinking. They are misinformed. They are pretentious. They are not scientifically minded people. They don't understand that rejecting something on hearing doesn't take any more critical thought than believing something on hearing. There is too much pride to admit, "I don't know!". But I'd be lying if I said I didn't, that God is clearly there, and it is through God's Son, The Most Perfect Image, That Truth that sets free.. That is how we go to The Father, and is by The Spirit of Truth through The Son.

They are fools, no better than those they accuse. They really accuse themselves! They accuse believers of accepting what they read, but do they not do they same? They have their scripture, they have their priests and scribes. They have their hierarchies. They mock what they do not understand, because they are convicted by their own sins. They do not have the love for the truth, and so they have been cursed with strong delusion.

Their pride too great to admit that they themselves are not scientists, but blind followers of those who have claimed to be scientists. Indeed the scripture is fulfilled when it says that people will stray from the faith because of science falsely so called, for they have been deceived by what they falsely call knowledge. They remain ignorant of God, believing to have knowledge of God. They will perish in their sins, like the idols they worship. They bow down to death, and indeed, it will overcome them. The Truth, however, lives on forever, The First and The Last. Woe to those who take evil for good and good for evil. Woe to those who call white "black", and black "white".
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
matt8800
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7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/17/2016 10:05:50 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?

"...neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned"
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/17/2016 10:07:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 10:05:50 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?

"...neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned"

Is that a no? If no, are you admitting that the bible makes false claims?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/17/2016 10:13:06 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 10:07:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:05:50 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?

"...neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned"

Is that a no? If no, are you admitting that the bible makes false claims?

The real question is, why are these things so important that you feel the need to ask about them? Apparently you seem to think that you can't accept God without accepting a whole bunch of other things. Until you accept that God means "The Ultimate Reality", you're asking Bill O'Reilly questions. It isn't necessary that you believe or disbelieve in the story of Noah's ark to accept God. The faith is in God. Scripture is intended to guide people to God, it isn't intended to be an idol placed before God. Why make things complicated? The burden is light.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/17/2016 10:27:07 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 10:13:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:07:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:05:50 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?

"...neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned"

Is that a no? If no, are you admitting that the bible makes false claims?

The real question is, why are these things so important that you feel the need to ask about them? Apparently you seem to think that you can't accept God without accepting a whole bunch of other things. Until you accept that God means "The Ultimate Reality", you're asking Bill O'Reilly questions. It isn't necessary that you believe or disbelieve in the story of Noah's ark to accept God. The faith is in God. Scripture is intended to guide people to God, it isn't intended to be an idol placed before God. Why make things complicated? The burden is light.

You are making accusations and assertions based on a book. If that book makes claims that are clearly false, then the credibility of the book is shot therefore your accusations and assertions have no foundation.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/17/2016 10:30:25 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 10:13:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:07:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:05:50 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?

"...neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned"

Is that a no? If no, are you admitting that the bible makes false claims?

The real question is, why are these things so important that you feel the need to ask about them? Apparently you seem to think that you can't accept God without accepting a whole bunch of other things.

That is not true. I have asked you before which god you are referring to and you specifically said the Christian God. If you don't believe in the validity of the bible, how would you define God?

Here is the Hindu version of 'The Ultimate Reality'. Is that sufficient to believe in?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/17/2016 10:31:00 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 10:27:07 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:13:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:07:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:05:50 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?

"...neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned"

Is that a no? If no, are you admitting that the bible makes false claims?

The real question is, why are these things so important that you feel the need to ask about them? Apparently you seem to think that you can't accept God without accepting a whole bunch of other things. Until you accept that God means "The Ultimate Reality", you're asking Bill O'Reilly questions. It isn't necessary that you believe or disbelieve in the story of Noah's ark to accept God. The faith is in God. Scripture is intended to guide people to God, it isn't intended to be an idol placed before God. Why make things complicated? The burden is light.

You are making accusations and assertions based on a book. If that book makes claims that are clearly false, then the credibility of the book is shot therefore your accusations and assertions have no foundation.

You say this, but it isn't the truth.

If everything ever written about God was false, it wouldn't make God false. You don't understand the concept, so you attack the wrong things.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/17/2016 10:32:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 10:30:25 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:13:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:07:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:05:50 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?

"...neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned"

Is that a no? If no, are you admitting that the bible makes false claims?

The real question is, why are these things so important that you feel the need to ask about them? Apparently you seem to think that you can't accept God without accepting a whole bunch of other things.

That is not true. I have asked you before which god you are referring to and you specifically said the Christian God. If you don't believe in the validity of the bible, how would you define God?

Here is the Hindu version of 'The Ultimate Reality'. Is that sufficient to believe in?

There is no "version" of "The Ultimate Reality". There is only "The Ultimate Reality".

I don't care what people think about it. You are attacking the wrong thing again.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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7/18/2016 2:07:58 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

Can one raise a child to be an atheist and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills lol?? absolutely not, atheism is a mental control, it limits a persons real potential by an infinity. Imagine living your whole life believing a scam that all you can and will ever possess and live within is this little, tiny, suffocating box when in reality you possess something far greater. There is no "critical thinking" in materialism, carnality. There is so much more dynamics and understanding in Theism.
Once again, you're probably confusing atheism with science lol, those are not one and the same. One is a method to explore the natural world, the other a false ideology.

Critical thinking- "the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment."

Now suppose you critically thinking atheists come to find out the world is a little larger than you thought and once perceived beyond materialism. How would your ideology and world view permit critical thinking and understanding beyond the material?


If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

Why not? what does this "magic" represent? some how I sense a straw man coming on....



If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

There is nothing in Christianity which restricts or undermines critical thinking,that is wishful thinking on your part.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/18/2016 2:23:42 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 10:31:00 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:27:07 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:13:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:07:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:05:50 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?

"...neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned"

Is that a no? If no, are you admitting that the bible makes false claims?

The real question is, why are these things so important that you feel the need to ask about them? Apparently you seem to think that you can't accept God without accepting a whole bunch of other things. Until you accept that God means "The Ultimate Reality", you're asking Bill O'Reilly questions. It isn't necessary that you believe or disbelieve in the story of Noah's ark to accept God. The faith is in God. Scripture is intended to guide people to God, it isn't intended to be an idol placed before God. Why make things complicated? The burden is light.

You are making accusations and assertions based on a book. If that book makes claims that are clearly false, then the credibility of the book is shot therefore your accusations and assertions have no foundation.

You say this, but it isn't the truth.

If everything ever written about God was false, it wouldn't make God false. You don't understand the concept, so you attack the wrong things.

Where do you get your information from? What confirms your ideas are right?
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/18/2016 2:29:33 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 10:32:13 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:30:25 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:13:06 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:07:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:05:50 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/17/2016 10:03:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/17/2016 9:37:23 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Anyone who demands evidence for The Ultimate Reality is a fool. Their very existence is testament to it.

Do you believe Noah's ark is a true story?

"...neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned"

Is that a no? If no, are you admitting that the bible makes false claims?

The real question is, why are these things so important that you feel the need to ask about them? Apparently you seem to think that you can't accept God without accepting a whole bunch of other things.

That is not true. I have asked you before which god you are referring to and you specifically said the Christian God. If you don't believe in the validity of the bible, how would you define God?

Here is the Hindu version of 'The Ultimate Reality'. Is that sufficient to believe in?

There is no "version" of "The Ultimate Reality". There is only "The Ultimate Reality".

I don't care what people think about it. You are attacking the wrong thing again.

The title of this thread is 'Children, Critical Thinking and Religion'; not 'Children, Critical Thinking and God'.

I have never said there was not such a thing as a consciousness outside of our mind. What I am saying is that there is no way you can reasonably assert there is a god that inspired the Christian bible in any way, listens to your prayers or cares about your sex life. I have read the bible many times. What information do you have that I don't have? Explain it and prove me wrong. I have said this many times to theists and they can never tell me how they know the bible is truthful. Can you?
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/18/2016 2:42:49 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/18/2016 2:07:58 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

Can one raise a child to be an atheist and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills lol?? absolutely not, atheism is a mental control, it limits a persons real potential by an infinity.

Feel free to explain exactly how that works, if you can. It appears to me they are just emotional ramblings void of any substance.

Imagine living your whole life believing a scam that all you can and will ever possess and live within is this little, tiny, suffocating box when in reality you possess something far greater. There is no "critical thinking" in materialism, carnality. There is so much more dynamics and understanding in Theism.

What is carnality, why is it bad (assuming it is) and what is its relation to critical thinking?

Once again, you're probably confusing atheism with science lol, those are not one and the same. One is a method to explore the natural world, the other a false ideology.

How so?

Critical thinking- "the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment."

Now suppose you critically thinking atheists come to find out the world is a little larger than you thought and once perceived beyond materialism. How would your ideology and world view permit critical thinking and understanding beyond the material?

I am not a materialist. How does that contradict me being an atheist?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

Why not? what does this "magic" represent? some how I sense a straw man coming on....


Lets take a look at the definition, shall we?

Magic (definition) - 'the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.' https://www.google.com...

Does a talking snake fit that definition? Or what about a guy putting two of every species on the planet on his homemade boat, keeping them there for a year and redistributing every species that exists to their original global locations? Would that be considered magic according to the above definition?


If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

There is nothing in Christianity which restricts or undermines critical thinking,that is wishful thinking on your part.

Do you believe in the story of Noah's Ark?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/18/2016 3:03:18 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
The Truth speaks for itself, I have no need to defend testimony. I speak of the things that God has revealed to me, and I do not stand alone in these revealings. All of creation testifies of God, and it is foolish to deny God. Why do you want to dispute over created things? Has it not been said since the beginning that God is The Uncreated Creator of all creation? Why then do you make an idol out of created things? Truly, scripture is inspired by God, and there is a great cloud of witnesses that will testify of this. It is not necessary that I defend scripture.

What is important is that you Realize God, for without this, there is nothing, and you will perish in your vain imaginings. Eternal life is with The God of Salvation.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
matt8800
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7/18/2016 3:14:54 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/18/2016 3:03:18 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
The Truth speaks for itself, I have no need to defend testimony. I speak of the things that God has revealed to me, and I do not stand alone in these revealings. All of creation testifies of God, and it is foolish to deny God. Why do you want to dispute over created things? Has it not been said since the beginning that God is The Uncreated Creator of all creation? Why then do you make an idol out of created things? Truly, scripture is inspired by God, and there is a great cloud of witnesses that will testify of this. It is not necessary that I defend scripture.

What is important is that you Realize God, for without this, there is nothing, and you will perish in your vain imaginings. Eternal life is with The God of Salvation.

Just more of the same. You guys will never give a straight answer.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/18/2016 3:16:51 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I just had a debate with a full blown atheist who kept getting confused by my arguments, and I couldn't figure out why. It turned out they were a little kid who had been militantly sold a dogmatic atheism. He had never heard the creationist side. That is called "indoctrination".
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
matt8800
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7/18/2016 3:18:31 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/18/2016 3:16:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I just had a debate with a full blown atheist who kept getting confused by my arguments, and I couldn't figure out why. It turned out they were a little kid who had been militantly sold a dogmatic atheism. He had never heard the creationist side. That is called "indoctrination".

Are you indoctrinating your children if you don't teach them Mormonism?

That argument makes no sense.