Total Posts:17|Showing Posts:1-17
Jump to topic:

Invalid Old Testament Laws

matt8800
Posts: 2,077
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 3:34:26 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
I have heard Christians say that the OT laws were no longer valid once Jesus came onto the scene.

I have a few questions about that:

1. At what point exactly were the OT laws invalidated? Was it the day Jesus said something? Was it the moment he died on the cross?
2. Whenever that exact moment was that the OT laws was invalidated, should a person have been put to death that had gay sex prior to that moment pursuant to God's command?
3. If it was at the moment Jesus said something, why didn't he say it sooner and save people from being executed for working on the Sabbath or being homosexual?

If you answer that the laws were not to be taken seriously:

4. Were the laws that were claimed to be from God simply metaphors and he was simply joking about executing people the whole time?
5. If they are just metaphors, how do you know God doesn't actually like homosexuality and it wasn't just another metaphor for something else?

If you answer that the laws were invalidated at Jesus' death:

6. Why did he say the laws were invalid prior to his death? Isnt that encouraging people to break a law that is still in force?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 3:40:11 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:34:26 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard Christians say that the OT laws were no longer valid once Jesus came onto the scene.

I have a few questions about that:

1. At what point exactly were the OT laws invalidated? Was it the day Jesus said something? Was it the moment he died on the cross?
2. Whenever that exact moment was that the OT laws was invalidated, should a person have been put to death that had gay sex prior to that moment pursuant to God's command?
3. If it was at the moment Jesus said something, why didn't he say it sooner and save people from being executed for working on the Sabbath or being homosexual?

If you answer that the laws were not to be taken seriously:

4. Were the laws that were claimed to be from God simply metaphors and he was simply joking about executing people the whole time?
5. If they are just metaphors, how do you know God doesn't actually like homosexuality and it wasn't just another metaphor for something else?

If you answer that the laws were invalidated at Jesus' death:

6. Why did he say the laws were invalid prior to his death? Isnt that encouraging people to break a law that is still in force?

It seems to all be constantly on your mind. Are you finding your faith in atheism is futile yet, or will you do like I did and live defeated by the atheistic cult and waste years of your life?

If you want to debate me on this topic, I'll tell you when, why, how. If not, then I guess you'll never know.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 3:45:58 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:40:11 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:34:26 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard Christians say that the OT laws were no longer valid once Jesus came onto the scene.

I have a few questions about that:

1. At what point exactly were the OT laws invalidated? Was it the day Jesus said something? Was it the moment he died on the cross?
2. Whenever that exact moment was that the OT laws was invalidated, should a person have been put to death that had gay sex prior to that moment pursuant to God's command?
3. If it was at the moment Jesus said something, why didn't he say it sooner and save people from being executed for working on the Sabbath or being homosexual?

If you answer that the laws were not to be taken seriously:

4. Were the laws that were claimed to be from God simply metaphors and he was simply joking about executing people the whole time?
5. If they are just metaphors, how do you know God doesn't actually like homosexuality and it wasn't just another metaphor for something else?

If you answer that the laws were invalidated at Jesus' death:

6. Why did he say the laws were invalid prior to his death? Isnt that encouraging people to break a law that is still in force?

It seems to all be constantly on your mind. Are you finding your faith in atheism is futile yet, or will you do like I did and live defeated by the atheistic cult and waste years of your life?

If you want to debate me on this topic, I'll tell you when, why, how. If not, then I guess you'll never know.

Bronto, there might be fragile young Christians that see this thread. They might be depending on you to answer it right here or they might doubt and lose their salvation. I'm not spending my time debating someone that cant stick to facts or recognize reason when it bites them in the nose so this is the only chance you will have to respond for their sake.

Answer these questions for the children...and their children.
Artur
Posts: 723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 3:46:20 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:34:26 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard Christians say that the OT laws were no longer valid once Jesus came onto the scene.
who invalidated it we must ask to xtians. Jesus? Then he is qualified to be the false prophet:
"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you." Deuteronomy 13:1-5
so, if Jesus or Paul or both taught, said jews {considering they are for all humanity it includes jews as well} to follow the way other than their tanakh, they become false prophets. {as obvious}
I have a few questions about that:

1. At what point exactly were the OT laws invalidated? Was it the day Jesus said something? Was it the moment he died on the cross?
Paul says Jesus did it by nailing it on the cross {colossians 2 : 14}, says "law is for living, by the crucifixion of Jesus you are dead for the law". so, I assume from the PoV of xtians, at the time he was crucified he invalidated the OT {or says Paul}
2. Whenever that exact moment was that the OT laws was invalidated, should a person have been put to death that had gay sex prior to that moment pursuant to God's command?
hmm, good question.
3. If it was at the moment Jesus said something, why didn't he say it sooner and save people from being executed for working on the Sabbath or being homosexual?
again, good question
If you answer that the laws were not to be taken seriously:

4. Were the laws that were claimed to be from God simply metaphors and he was simply joking about executing people the whole time?
5. If they are just metaphors, how do you know God doesn't actually like homosexuality and it wasn't just another metaphor for something else?
again, good questions. fantasy of xtians will find good excuse I guess.
If you answer that the laws were invalidated at Jesus' death:

6. Why did he say the laws were invalid prior to his death? Isnt that encouraging people to break a law that is still in force?
did he or did not he you meant? as far as I recall, he never said so, that must be invention of Paul.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Artur
Posts: 723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 3:48:38 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:45:58 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:40:11 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:34:26 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard Christians say that the OT laws were no longer valid once Jesus came onto the scene.

I have a few questions about that:

1. At what point exactly were the OT laws invalidated? Was it the day Jesus said something? Was it the moment he died on the cross?
2. Whenever that exact moment was that the OT laws was invalidated, should a person have been put to death that had gay sex prior to that moment pursuant to God's command?
3. If it was at the moment Jesus said something, why didn't he say it sooner and save people from being executed for working on the Sabbath or being homosexual?

If you answer that the laws were not to be taken seriously:

4. Were the laws that were claimed to be from God simply metaphors and he was simply joking about executing people the whole time?
5. If they are just metaphors, how do you know God doesn't actually like homosexuality and it wasn't just another metaphor for something else?

If you answer that the laws were invalidated at Jesus' death:

6. Why did he say the laws were invalid prior to his death? Isnt that encouraging people to break a law that is still in force?

It seems to all be constantly on your mind. Are you finding your faith in atheism is futile yet, or will you do like I did and live defeated by the atheistic cult and waste years of your life?

If you want to debate me on this topic, I'll tell you when, why, how. If not, then I guess you'll never know.

Bronto, there might be fragile young Christians that see this thread. They might be depending on you to answer it right here or they might doubt and lose their salvation. I'm not spending my time debating someone that cant stick to facts or recognize reason when it bites them in the nose so this is the only chance you will have to respond for their sake.

Answer these questions for the children...and their children.

yes, he is right. my friend is a christian and with me now, started to lose faith, he needs help of brontoraptor, who is the hero of xtianity against atheism, who single handedly destroyed atheism and defended the glory of the christ.

waiting your answers, dear Brontoraptor. help my friend, he is waiting you. he needs you
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 3:50:36 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:45:58 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:40:11 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:34:26 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard Christians say that the OT laws were no longer valid once Jesus came onto the scene.

I have a few questions about that:

1. At what point exactly were the OT laws invalidated? Was it the day Jesus said something? Was it the moment he died on the cross?
2. Whenever that exact moment was that the OT laws was invalidated, should a person have been put to death that had gay sex prior to that moment pursuant to God's command?
3. If it was at the moment Jesus said something, why didn't he say it sooner and save people from being executed for working on the Sabbath or being homosexual?

If you answer that the laws were not to be taken seriously:

4. Were the laws that were claimed to be from God simply metaphors and he was simply joking about executing people the whole time?
5. If they are just metaphors, how do you know God doesn't actually like homosexuality and it wasn't just another metaphor for something else?

If you answer that the laws were invalidated at Jesus' death:

6. Why did he say the laws were invalid prior to his death? Isnt that encouraging people to break a law that is still in force?

It seems to all be constantly on your mind. Are you finding your faith in atheism is futile yet, or will you do like I did and live defeated by the atheistic cult and waste years of your life?

If you want to debate me on this topic, I'll tell you when, why, how. If not, then I guess you'll never know.

Bronto, there might be fragile young Christians that see this thread. They might be depending on you to answer it right here or they might doubt and lose their salvation. I'm not spending my time debating someone that cant stick to facts or recognize reason when it bites them in the nose so this is the only chance you will have to respond for their sake.

Answer these questions for the children...and their children.

What's it matter Matt? We'll all be dead in 50-70 years. And if you are right your question is irrelevant, my answer would be irrelevant, and the children are irrelevant. We are random biological agents with no objective meaning,, or purpose doomed to heat death per supernova or cosmic radiation or failure of biological functions. Tic...tic...tic...tic...hmmm...the sand sure does pour fast...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 3:51:13 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations" "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using"according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 3:57:08 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:51:13 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations" "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using"according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

So, in other words, you don't know either.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 3:59:53 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:46:20 AM, Artur wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:34:26 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard Christians say that the OT laws were no longer valid once Jesus came onto the scene.
who invalidated it we must ask to xtians. Jesus? Then he is qualified to be the false prophet:
"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you." Deuteronomy 13:1-5

I forgot about that one. Do the Christians know about this verse? Someone should tell them they are barking up the wrong tree with Jesus.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 4:03:43 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Two Christians now and nobody can answer a very important question. If they cant say when the laws were invalidated, how do they are they are invalid now?
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 4:07:43 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:50:36 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:45:58 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:40:11 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:34:26 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard Christians say that the OT laws were no longer valid once Jesus came onto the scene.

I have a few questions about that:

1. At what point exactly were the OT laws invalidated? Was it the day Jesus said something? Was it the moment he died on the cross?
2. Whenever that exact moment was that the OT laws was invalidated, should a person have been put to death that had gay sex prior to that moment pursuant to God's command?
3. If it was at the moment Jesus said something, why didn't he say it sooner and save people from being executed for working on the Sabbath or being homosexual?

If you answer that the laws were not to be taken seriously:

4. Were the laws that were claimed to be from God simply metaphors and he was simply joking about executing people the whole time?
5. If they are just metaphors, how do you know God doesn't actually like homosexuality and it wasn't just another metaphor for something else?

If you answer that the laws were invalidated at Jesus' death:

6. Why did he say the laws were invalid prior to his death? Isnt that encouraging people to break a law that is still in force?

It seems to all be constantly on your mind. Are you finding your faith in atheism is futile yet, or will you do like I did and live defeated by the atheistic cult and waste years of your life?

If you want to debate me on this topic, I'll tell you when, why, how. If not, then I guess you'll never know.

Bronto, there might be fragile young Christians that see this thread. They might be depending on you to answer it right here or they might doubt and lose their salvation. I'm not spending my time debating someone that cant stick to facts or recognize reason when it bites them in the nose so this is the only chance you will have to respond for their sake.

Answer these questions for the children...and their children.

What's it matter Matt? We'll all be dead in 50-70 years. And if you are right your question is irrelevant, my answer would be irrelevant, and the children are irrelevant. We are random biological agents with no objective meaning,, or purpose doomed to heat death per supernova or cosmic radiation or failure of biological functions. Tic...tic...tic...tic...hmmm...the sand sure does pour fast...

I was posing the question for the fragile young Christians that come to these sites looking for answers. The ball is in your court ;)
EliphasTheInheritor
Posts: 13
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 4:09:52 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 4:03:43 AM, matt8800 wrote:
Two Christians now and nobody can answer a very important question. If they cant say when the laws were invalidated, how do they are they are invalid now?

All Testaments are invalid. There is no true faith, but that of Chaos.

The works Lorgar, blessed be his name, are the close man shall be to true divine enlightenment. Religions on earth pass and fade with the winds of time, yet chaos, chaos is always present.

As it stands, many religion feed it. Khornem Tzeentch, and Nurgle in particular now revel in the organization of those traits that feed them.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 4:14:00 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 4:09:52 AM, EliphasTheInheritor wrote:
At 7/21/2016 4:03:43 AM, matt8800 wrote:
Two Christians now and nobody can answer a very important question. If they cant say when the laws were invalidated, how do they are they are invalid now?

All Testaments are invalid. There is no true faith, but that of Chaos.

The works Lorgar, blessed be his name, are the close man shall be to true divine enlightenment. Religions on earth pass and fade with the winds of time, yet chaos, chaos is always present.

As it stands, many religion feed it. Khornem Tzeentch, and Nurgle in particular now revel in the organization of those traits that feed them.

That's one theory, I suppose ;)
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 4:20:17 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:57:08 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:51:13 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations" "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using"according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

So, in other words, you don't know either.

I don't think you understand.

Look at what Jesus did as an example of "fulfilling the law and the prophets."

Look at how the people interpreted these things by going back to The Old Testament.

The letter of the law kills, the spirit of the law brings life.

In other words, the only thing that shifted was the paradigm. Certain idolatries pertaining to religious thinking were revealed.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Artur
Posts: 723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 4:35:13 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:59:53 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:46:20 AM, Artur wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:34:26 AM, matt8800 wrote:
I have heard Christians say that the OT laws were no longer valid once Jesus came onto the scene.
who invalidated it we must ask to xtians. Jesus? Then he is qualified to be the false prophet:
"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you." Deuteronomy 13:1-5

I forgot about that one. Do the Christians know about this verse? Someone should tell them they are barking up the wrong tree with Jesus.

some of them know, majority of them did even not read the OT or examined Jesus.

even if you come with suxh arguement related to the doctrine, they come up with "proof" from NT. They do not understand if the messiah claimant contradicts oT, then he is wrong, not OT.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 4:40:31 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 4:20:17 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:57:08 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:51:13 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations" "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using"according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

So, in other words, you don't know either.

I don't think you understand.

Look at what Jesus did as an example of "fulfilling the law and the prophets."

Look at how the people interpreted these things by going back to The Old Testament.


The letter of the law kills, the spirit of the law brings life.


In other words, the only thing that shifted was the paradigm. Certain idolatries pertaining to religious thinking were revealed.

Are you saying the original laws were incorrect?

How come people think the OT is inspired by God?

Were all those people wrongly executed? Who is to blame for this heinous mistake?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2016 4:49:09 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 4:40:31 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 4:20:17 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:57:08 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:51:13 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations" "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using"according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

So, in other words, you don't know either.

I don't think you understand.

Look at what Jesus did as an example of "fulfilling the law and the prophets."

Look at how the people interpreted these things by going back to The Old Testament.


The letter of the law kills, the spirit of the law brings life.


In other words, the only thing that shifted was the paradigm. Certain idolatries pertaining to religious thinking were revealed.

Are you saying the original laws were incorrect?

How come people think the OT is inspired by God?

Were all those people wrongly executed? Who is to blame for this heinous mistake?

Oh, The Old Testament is inspired, and it's a self contained work just as The New Testament is.

I don't think you understand what you are asking. I think you should read the entire New Testament, and then reformulate your questions.

If you say you already read it, read it again. Maybe use a translation that isn't terrible. I recommend The New King James. If you want to read it online, it's hosted at http://www.biblegateway.com...
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,