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Whilst resting on a cross

Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/21/2016 5:38:09 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 5:00:23 PM, desmac wrote:
Did jesus not know he was meant to be immortal?

Matthew 16:21
( http://biblehub.com... )

"
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
"

1. He knew he would be resurrected a mere 72 hours later.

Luke 1:31-33
(https://www.biblegateway.com... )

"
31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob"s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.
"

2. He knew He would rule forever.

Luke 19:12-15
(Jesus' parable)
( https://www.biblegateway.com...)

" He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] "Put this money to work," he said, "until I come back."

14 "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, "We don"t want this man to be our king."

15 "He was made king, however, and returned home.
"

3. He knew he would at some point return to earth as King.

In short, Jesus knew that after 72 hours He would be resurrected, ascend to heaven, at some point be crowned king and later on return to Earth as sovereign to rule forever.

Given the above, I don't think Christ's demise qualifies as sacrifical death. It lacks the perennial quality intrinsic to the ceasing of life. In this regard, it is more akin to a 72-hour long sleep. Moreover, it is followed by unprecedented rewards, namely coronation and eternal rule over Earth, in fact over the entire Universe.

This doesn't strike me as sacrifice at all.
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/21/2016 5:45:03 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 5:00:23 PM, desmac wrote:
Did jesus not know he was meant to be immortal?

So, Yes, He did know.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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7/21/2016 8:33:54 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 5:00:23 PM, desmac wrote:
Did jesus not know he was meant to be immortal?

Jesus died, so he was not immortal. He also knew he will die, so he must have known he is not immortal. But he was raised from the death as I think he believed, atl least before he said:

"Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?" That is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mat. 27:46
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/21/2016 8:37:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 8:33:54 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 5:00:23 PM, desmac wrote:
Did jesus not know he was meant to be immortal?

Jesus died, so he was not immortal. He also knew he will die, so he must have known he is not immortal. But he was raised from the death as I think he believed, atl least before he said:

"Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?" That is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mat. 27:46

So your god is not immortal?
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/22/2016 12:01:25 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
The full Psalm that this line comes from, which should reveal a bit more context. Yes, Jesus was singing psalms while hanging on the cross.

"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.
But You are holy,
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.
Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them.
They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people.
All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
"He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!"
But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother"s breasts.
I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother"s womb
You have been My God.
Be not far from Me,
For trouble is near;
For there is none to help.
Many bulls have surrounded Me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me.
They gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.
I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
But You, O Lord, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!
Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.
Save Me from the lion"s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!
You have answered Me.
I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
You who fear the Lord, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.
My praise shall be of You in the great assembly;
I will pay My vows before those who fear Him.
The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the Lord.
Let your heart live forever!
All the ends of the world
Shall remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations
Shall worship before You.
For the kingdom is the Lord"s,
And He rules over the nations.
All the prosperous of the earth
Shall eat and worship;
All those who go down to the dust
Shall bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep himself alive.
A posterity shall serve Him.
It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation,
They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born,
That He has done this."

The other psalm that Jesus was singing while hanging on the cross..

"In You, O Lord, I put my trust;
Let me never be ashamed;
Deliver me in Your righteousness.
Bow down Your ear to me,
Deliver me speedily;
Be my rock of refuge,
A fortress of defense to save me.
For You are my rock and my fortress;
Therefore, for Your name"s sake,
Lead me and guide me.
Pull me out of the net which they have secretly laid for me,
For You are my strength.
Into Your hand I commit my spirit;
You have redeemed me, O Lord God of truth.
I have hated those who regard useless idols;
But I trust in the Lord.
I will be glad and rejoice in Your mercy,
For You have considered my trouble;
You have known my soul in adversities,
And have not shut me up into the hand of the enemy;
You have set my feet in a wide place.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am in trouble;
My eye wastes away with grief,
Yes, my soul and my body!
For my life is spent with grief,
And my years with sighing;
My strength fails because of my iniquity,
And my bones waste away.
I am a reproach among all my enemies,
But especially among my neighbors,
And am repulsive to my acquaintances;
Those who see me outside flee from me.
I am forgotten like a dead man, out of mind;
I am like a broken vessel.
For I hear the slander of many;
Fear is on every side;
While they take counsel together against me,
They scheme to take away my life.
But as for me, I trust in You, O Lord;
I say, "You are my God."
My times are in Your hand;
Deliver me from the hand of my enemies,
And from those who persecute me.
Make Your face shine upon Your servant;
Save me for Your mercies" sake.
Do not let me be ashamed, O Lord, for I have called upon You;
Let the wicked be ashamed;
Let them be silent in the grave.
Let the lying lips be put to silence,
Which speak insolent things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous.
Oh, how great is Your goodness,
Which You have laid up for those who fear You,
Which You have prepared for those who trust in You
In the presence of the sons of men!
You shall hide them in the secret place of Your presence
From the plots of man;
You shall keep them secretly in a pavilion
From the strife of tongues.
Blessed be the Lord,
For He has shown me His marvelous kindness in a strong city!
For I said in my haste,
"I am cut off from before Your eyes";
Nevertheless You heard the voice of my supplications
When I cried out to You.
Oh, love the Lord, all you His saints!
For the Lord preserves the faithful,
And fully repays the proud person.
Be of good courage,
And He shall strengthen your heart,
All you who hope in the Lord."
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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7/22/2016 8:53:06 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 8:37:45 PM, desmac wrote:
So your god is not immortal?

I keep Bible God as my God and He is immortal.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/22/2016 8:58:09 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/22/2016 8:53:06 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 8:37:45 PM, desmac wrote:
So your god is not immortal?

I keep Bible God as my God and He is immortal.

Prove it.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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7/24/2016 10:02:29 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/22/2016 8:58:09 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/22/2016 8:53:06 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 8:37:45 PM, desmac wrote:
So your god is not immortal?

I keep Bible God as my God and He is immortal.

Prove it.

)

Somebody has said to me that proving is only possible with mathematics. Therefore I only clarify that I meant, I believe God is immortal, because of what the Bible tells.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/25/2016 8:15:08 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/24/2016 10:02:29 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/22/2016 8:58:09 PM, desmac wrote:
At 7/22/2016 8:53:06 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 8:37:45 PM, desmac wrote:
So your god is not immortal?

I keep Bible God as my God and He is immortal.

Prove it.

)

Somebody has said to me that proving is only possible with mathematics. Therefore I only clarify that I meant, I believe God is immortal, because of what the Bible tells.

For which there is no verification at all.
tarantula
Posts: 846
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7/25/2016 8:21:07 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/22/2016 8:53:06 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 8:37:45 PM, desmac wrote:
So your god is not immortal?

I keep Bible God as my God and He is immortal.

You cannot prove that is true.
uncung
Posts: 3,431
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7/25/2016 8:27:05 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/22/2016 8:53:06 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 8:37:45 PM, desmac wrote:
So your god is not immortal?

I keep Bible God as my God and He is immortal.

Bible is your God?
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,861
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7/25/2016 8:29:53 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 8:21:07 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 7/22/2016 8:53:06 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 8:37:45 PM, desmac wrote:
So your god is not immortal?

I keep Bible God as my God and He is immortal.

You cannot prove that is true.
You cannot prove that truth needs to be proven in order to be true. So , basically explain to me how proving something is true changes the beginning nature of that which was proven as true. Was the beginning nature changed when it was proven true? If so, what was the truth of its nature that was such that proving it true changed it. Give an example of something that was proven to be true that wasn't actually true before it was proven so.
Throwback
Posts: 421
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7/25/2016 4:32:51 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 5:00:23 PM, desmac wrote:
Did jesus not know he was meant to be immortal?

Jesus was of two natures, a divine nature and a human nature. This was necessary in order to satisfy for sin. As mankind had sinned against the Divine, the debt of the sins of man had to be paid by one of us (His human nature), and as offending against God is an infinite evil, the debt also had to be paid by one of infinite value (His divine nature).

His divinity, as well as his soul, are immortal. His divinity is also eternal. The bodily portion of His human nature was not, however immortal. It was a real human nature capable of suffering and death just as the rest of us. He knew all of this, and He knew it more fully than any of us, or all of us combined could hope to know it.

Of course, I am not the least interested in debating this or any other topic with the members of the cult of Atheism.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/25/2016 4:42:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 4:32:51 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 7/21/2016 5:00:23 PM, desmac wrote:
Did jesus not know he was meant to be immortal?

Jesus was of two natures, a divine nature and a human nature. This was necessary in order to satisfy for sin. As mankind had sinned against the Divine, the debt of the sins of man had to be paid by one of us (His human nature), and as offending against God is an infinite evil, the debt also had to be paid by one of infinite value (His divine nature).

His divinity, as well as his soul, are immortal. His divinity is also eternal. The bodily portion of His human nature was not, however immortal. It was a real human nature capable of suffering and death just as the rest of us. He knew all of this, and He knew it more fully than any of us, or all of us combined could hope to know it.

Of course, I am not the least interested in debating this or any other topic with the members of the cult of Atheism.

Just keep making it up as you go along.