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Death before the fall?

Airaux2
Posts: 51
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7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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7/25/2016 12:25:12 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there was no death then there could have been no procreation and reproduction either. Bacteria alone would have swamped the Earth in a matter of a few hours. Absurd.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/25/2016 3:07:31 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
The Story book states that Adam & Eve were dependent on the ' Tree of Life ' to make them ' live forever '. Hence they wereinnately created Mortal, thus innately subject to literal physical Death.

Story book God(s) lied that they brought Death upon themselves!
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/25/2016 3:14:50 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 12:25:12 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there was no death then there could have been no procreation and reproduction either. Bacteria alone would have swamped the Earth in a matter of a few hours. Absurd.
said the same person who thinks man wasn't designed to die in his flesh.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/25/2016 3:16:47 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

of natural causes, this is certainly the case. I would venture to say that an original creation however would live a much longer time. I don't think its that the eco system changed with sin but that the sin caused spiritual death. This is the whole point of the messiah coming to provide spiritual life.

There is no evidence biblically anything ate meat before the flood btw.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/25/2016 3:31:49 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 3:07:31 AM, Composer wrote:
The Story book states that Adam & Eve were dependent on the ' Tree of Life ' to make them ' live forever '. Hence they wereinnately created Mortal, thus innately subject to literal physical Death.

Story book God(s) lied that they brought Death upon themselves!
+1 - you are one of the few readers who gets it, but also consider that the "God" in Genesis 1 has a completely different persona as the LORD God does beginning in chapter 2. Also God in Chapter 1 created them male and female - told them to be fruitful and multiply, and to eat of ALL fruit of ALL trees as well as to have dominion over the animals. When I let my imagination run wild, I can see that the story of creation in Genesis 1 could correlate to evolution in the sense that God ultimately intended the final product to be mankind living in harmony with Mother Earth. It would also make sense that humans wouldn't be expected to produce thru incense.

After Man's' "creation" on the 6th day, God rests on the seventh. Now Lord God (possibly a technologically advanced being) enters the scene. Did he draw the DNA of dead near man's (neanderthal) bones from the earth to create a man to "till" the ground. No man to till the ground could have meant that no man was willing to till the ground since they ate plentifully from the trees.
Here's a link to Genesis 1 and 2 for anyone who wants to read it, and allow their imagination to guide them - rather than literal belief or disbelief.

I hope trolls can refrain from critiquing my interpretation of this ancient manuscript, and instead share their insights about what the hidden meanings of these texts could possibly reveal. https://www.biblegateway.com...
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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7/25/2016 4:01:03 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 12:25:12 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there was no death then there could have been no procreation and reproduction either.
Non sequitur. no death has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to procreate in this so called "after the fall" pardigm so essentially it was also a non issue pre fall.
Bacteria alone would have swamped the Earth in a matter of a few hours. Absurd.
Assumes bacteria is all bad for the ecosystem when the fall concept clearly defined the ecosystem as perfect, therefore bacteria is just as apt to be beneficial if not irrelevant to anything that is a "perfectly ordered" paradigm because there were no negative effects on the paradigm by anything.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?
If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.
The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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7/25/2016 4:03:47 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 3:14:50 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/25/2016 12:25:12 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there was no death then there could have been no procreation and reproduction either. Bacteria alone would have swamped the Earth in a matter of a few hours. Absurd.

said the same person who thinks man wasn't designed to die in his flesh.

When did I say I think that? I am merely basing an argument on the literal words of the Bible. Do you understand what accepting a position "for the sake of argument" means?
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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7/25/2016 4:14:09 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 4:01:03 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/25/2016 12:25:12 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there was no death then there could have been no procreation and reproduction either.

Non sequitur. no death has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to procreate in this so called "after the fall" pardigm so essentially it was also a non issue pre fall.

You need to have continued reading. I went on to explain why procreation and reproduction would be unsustainable in tandem with no death. If something leads to an impossible outcome it then has to be rejected. That is perfectly logical.

Bacteria alone would have swamped the Earth in a matter of a few hours. Absurd.

Assumes bacteria is all bad for the ecosystem when the fall concept clearly defined the ecosystem as perfect, therefore bacteria is just as apt to be beneficial if not irrelevant to anything that is a "perfectly ordered" paradigm because there were no negative effects on the paradigm by anything.

You need to improve your reading comprehension. What is it about unconstrained reproduction of bacteria swamping the Earth in a matter of a few hours don't you understand?
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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7/25/2016 4:22:18 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.

Non sequitur. Eating is not just for survival. It is needed just to maintain body temperature and for locomotion.

The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Still a non sequitur. There are animals on Galapagos which had no natural predators but they still needed sustenance and had a built-in drive to survive.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/25/2016 4:24:42 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 4:03:47 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/25/2016 3:14:50 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/25/2016 12:25:12 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there was no death then there could have been no procreation and reproduction either. Bacteria alone would have swamped the Earth in a matter of a few hours. Absurd.

said the same person who thinks man wasn't designed to die in his flesh.

When did I say I think that? I am merely basing an argument on the literal words of the Bible. Do you understand what accepting a position "for the sake of argument" means?

in either case, death was something we are not told was not possible before the fall of man
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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7/25/2016 5:13:01 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 4:22:18 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.

Non sequitur. Eating is not just for survival. It is needed just to maintain body temperature and for locomotion.
Lmfao.....this is definitely the epitome of logically inept reasoning. "Why would an animal need to maintain body temperature"? if they couldn't maintain body temperature what's the result? They would die. Oh wait, there is no death dee. You simply are making aspects of survival an issue when they aren't in pre fall conditions.
The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Still a non sequitur. There are animals on Galapagos which had no natural predators but they still needed sustenance and had a built-in drive to survive.
There's no "built in drive to survive" if it's not possible to die. We are talking pre fall conditions. There is no death. There is no degradation of anything.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/25/2016 5:21:31 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?
If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.
The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Most foods are simply an enjoyment to taste/eat if not required for survival!
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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7/25/2016 7:53:43 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 5:21:31 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?
If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.
The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Most foods are simply an enjoyment to taste/eat if not required for survival!
Well it's obvious you weren't going to site an example because you're simply making an equivocation fallacy in regards to what the definition of food is I'm betting.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/25/2016 8:29:24 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 5:21:31 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?
If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.
The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Most foods are simply an enjoyment to taste/eat if not required for survival!

At 7/25/2016 7:53:43 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Well it's obvious you weren't going to site an example because you're simply making an equivocation fallacy in regards to what the definition of food is I'm betting.

Gen. 2:9 & 3:6 ESV Story book

What do you believe ' food ' is then?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/25/2016 8:34:05 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?
If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.
The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

So no animals (including humans) had digestion systems?
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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7/25/2016 8:49:50 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 8:29:24 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/25/2016 5:21:31 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?
If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.
The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Most foods are simply an enjoyment to taste/eat if not required for survival!

At 7/25/2016 7:53:43 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Well it's obvious you weren't going to site an example because you're simply making an equivocation fallacy in regards to what the definition of food is I'm betting.

Gen. 2:9 & 3:6 ESV Story book

What do you believe ' food ' is then?
Wait, there might be a misunderstanding here. Was your first comment saying that food wasn't necessary for survival? Because that's my point pre fall? Eating wasn't necessary for survival because there was no death. Your comment read "if not required for survival" that seem to me that you were implying food was necessary for survival. If that is incorrect then we agree.
I never implied that they didn't eat, I merely have maintained they didn't eat to stay alive. No need to eat doesn't negate eating, it just negates needing to.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/25/2016 8:58:37 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 8:29:24 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/25/2016 5:21:31 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?
If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.
The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Most foods are simply an enjoyment to taste/eat if not required for survival!

At 7/25/2016 7:53:43 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Well it's obvious you weren't going to site an example because you're simply making an equivocation fallacy in regards to what the definition of food is I'm betting.

Gen. 2:9 & 3:6 ESV Story book

What do you believe ' food ' is then?

At 7/25/2016 8:49:50 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Wait, there might be a misunderstanding here. Was your first comment saying that food wasn't necessary for survival? Because that's my point pre fall? Eating wasn't necessary for survival because there was no death.

There WAS innate DEATH, because they were dependent on the Tree of Life!

At 7/25/2016 8:49:50 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Your comment read "if not required for survival" that seem to me that you were implying food was necessary for survival. If that is incorrect then we agree.
YES, Food WAS necessary for survival!

At 7/25/2016 8:49:50 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
I never implied that they didn't eat, I merely have maintained they didn't eat to stay alive.
But they DID need to eat food to ' stay alive ' because they were created innately MORTAL!

At 7/25/2016 8:49:50 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
No need to eat doesn't negate eating, it just negates needing to.
They needed to eat Food!

I also made the point that for those that don't ' need food ', eating regardless, can be a pleasure if it tastes good!
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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7/25/2016 2:42:35 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 5:13:01 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:22:18 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.

Non sequitur. Eating is not just for survival. It is needed just to maintain body temperature and for locomotion.

Lmfao.....this is definitely the epitome of logically inept reasoning. "Why would an animal need to maintain body temperature"? if they couldn't maintain body temperature what's the result? They would die. Oh wait, there is no death dee. You simply are making aspects of survival an issue when they aren't in pre fall conditions.

Oh, I wasn't aware that all animals were reptiles in pre-Fall MagicLand. Thank you for enlightning us. What about motion? Did that occur by magic too with no energy expenditure? Now, you were talking about logically inept reasoning ...

Didn't Eve and Adam eat some fruit in the Garden and get into trouble causing the Fall? Wait, let me think about this. That was pre-Fall. Yet you insist that there was no eating pre-Fall. There's a logic problem in there somewhere. Perhaps Skips, the master logician, can help us identify it. Was eating optional Skips? What about eating from the Tree of Life? Perhaps that's only symbolic? Help us out Skips. We need your incisive abilities with logic. Lol.

The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Still a non sequitur. There are animals on Galapagos which had no natural predators but they still needed sustenance and had a built-in drive to survive.

There's no "built in drive to survive" if it's not possible to die.

I was talking about mortal animals on Galapagos. Perhaps you missed that small salient point.

We are talking pre fall conditions. There is no death. There is no degradation of anything.

To paraphrase you from another thread which you ran away from:

Prove it...with evidence. I want to actually see you prove to me that there was no death in pre-Fall conditions. I'll need evidence to support your claim. Hint, quoting mythical stories isn't evidence...claiming conjecture as knowledge isn't evidence. I need to see the proof.
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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7/26/2016 3:11:26 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 2:42:35 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/25/2016 5:13:01 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:22:18 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?

If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.

Non sequitur. Eating is not just for survival. It is needed just to maintain body temperature and for locomotion.

Lmfao.....this is definitely the epitome of logically inept reasoning. "Why would an animal need to maintain body temperature"? if they couldn't maintain body temperature what's the result? They would die. Oh wait, there is no death dee. You simply are making aspects of survival an issue when they aren't in pre fall conditions.

Oh, I wasn't aware that all animals were reptiles in pre-Fall MagicLand. Thank you for enlightning us. What about motion? Did that occur by magic too with no energy expenditure? Now, you were talking about logically inept reasoning ...

Didn't Eve and Adam eat some fruit in the Garden and get into trouble causing the Fall? Wait, let me think about this. That was pre-Fall. Yet you insist that there was no eating pre-Fall. There's a logic problem in there somewhere. Perhaps Skips, the master logician, can help us identify it. Was eating optional Skips? What about eating from the Tree of Life? Perhaps that's only symbolic? Help us out Skips. We need your incisive abilities with logic. Lol.

The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Still a non sequitur. There are animals on Galapagos which had no natural predators but they still needed sustenance and had a built-in drive to survive.

There's no "built in drive to survive" if it's not possible to die.

I was talking about mortal animals on Galapagos. Perhaps you missed that small salient point.

We are talking pre fall conditions. There is no death. There is no degradation of anything.

To paraphrase you from another thread which you ran away from:

Prove it...with evidence. I want to actually see you prove to me that there was no death in pre-Fall conditions. I'll need evidence to support your claim. Hint, quoting mythical stories isn't evidence...claiming conjecture as knowledge isn't evidence. I need to see the proof.

And Skips abandons another embarrassing (for him) thread. Poor Skips has run away again.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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7/26/2016 3:41:05 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/25/2016 8:58:37 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/25/2016 8:29:24 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/25/2016 5:21:31 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/25/2016 4:03:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/24/2016 11:08:42 PM, Airaux2 wrote:
I've heard Kent Hovind say there was no death (at all, even animals) before the fall. This seems strange, considering certain animals, eg - lions have teeth for killing prey and seem ill-equipped for vegetarianism. Was the whole ecosystem different before Adam sinned?
Anyone like to comment?
If there's no death there's no need to "survive" , hence no need to eat.
The concept is pretty simple to grasp. Before the fall entails things such as no radiation from the sun, no carnivores, essentially no reason to need sustenance to survive because survival is only necessary if death is a possibility.

Most foods are simply an enjoyment to taste/eat if not required for survival!

At 7/25/2016 7:53:43 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Well it's obvious you weren't going to site an example because you're simply making an equivocation fallacy in regards to what the definition of food is I'm betting.

Gen. 2:9 & 3:6 ESV Story book

What do you believe ' food ' is then?

At 7/25/2016 8:49:50 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Wait, there might be a misunderstanding here. Was your first comment saying that food wasn't necessary for survival? Because that's my point pre fall? Eating wasn't necessary for survival because there was no death.

There WAS innate DEATH, because they were dependent on the Tree of Life!

At 7/25/2016 8:49:50 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Your comment read "if not required for survival" that seem to me that you were implying food was necessary for survival. If that is incorrect then we agree.
YES, Food WAS necessary for survival!
Prove it. If there was no death How do you know food helped in surviving the "death" that didn't exist?
You're claiming pre fall death of the body existed. You can't deduce that from the bible verses conclusively. Assuming there is a foreknowledge of the fall, which of course is logical in regards to God being all knowing, it's possible that pointing out "this will be food for you" wasn't something that meant for there physical bodies to survive. You're argument isn't new.....here is a very long but coherent explanation of why Adam and Eve may not have been created physically "mortal".
https://answersingenesis.org...
At 7/25/2016 8:49:50 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
I never implied that they didn't eat, I merely have maintained they didn't eat to stay alive.
But they DID need to eat food to ' stay alive ' because they were created innately MORTAL!

At 7/25/2016 8:49:50 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
No need to eat doesn't negate eating, it just negates needing to.
They needed to eat Food!

I also made the point that for those that don't ' need food ', eating regardless, can be a pleasure if it tastes good!
Composer
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7/26/2016 4:57:13 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
YES, Food WAS necessary for survival!

At 7/26/2016 3:41:05 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Prove it. If there was no death How do you know food helped in surviving the "death" that didn't exist?
But there WAS innate Death!

We know that because they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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7/26/2016 5:47:18 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
There was no fall.
Death has existed as long as life has, approx 3billion yrs.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 4:57:13 AM, Composer wrote:
YES, Food WAS necessary for survival!

At 7/26/2016 3:41:05 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Prove it. If there was no death How do you know food helped in surviving the "death" that didn't exist?
But there WAS innate Death!
Sorry biblical texts just don't agree with you
We know that because they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '.
This is a misinterpretation of what the issue is. You obviously didn't read my link. The logic is consistent that NO death of any kind existed until sin entered the world. I.E. no death at all before the fall.
bulproof
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7/27/2016 10:44:47 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 7/26/2016 4:57:13 AM, Composer wrote:
YES, Food WAS necessary for survival!

At 7/26/2016 3:41:05 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Prove it. If there was no death How do you know food helped in surviving the "death" that didn't exist?
But there WAS innate Death!
Sorry biblical texts just don't agree with you
We know that because they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '.
This is a misinterpretation of what the issue is. You obviously didn't read my link. The logic is consistent that NO death of any kind existed until sin entered the world. I.E. no death at all before the fall.
Do tell the dinosaurs that, I'm sure they will be impressed.
bwuahahahahahahahaha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
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7/28/2016 3:26:57 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 4:57:13 AM, Composer wrote:
YES, Food WAS necessary for survival!

At 7/26/2016 3:41:05 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Prove it. If there was no death How do you know food helped in surviving the "death" that didn't exist?
But there WAS innate Death!

At 7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Sorry biblical texts just don't agree with you
You didn't cite any?

Regardless, your error remains because we know they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '.

At 7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
This is a misinterpretation of what the issue is. You obviously didn't read my link. The logic is consistent that NO death of any kind existed until sin entered the world. I.E. no death at all before the fall.
You remain in error!

We know because they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '. Making them innately Mortal = subject to Death!
Looncall
Posts: 445
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7/28/2016 12:16:33 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 3:26:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2016 4:57:13 AM, Composer wrote:
YES, Food WAS necessary for survival!

At 7/26/2016 3:41:05 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Prove it. If there was no death How do you know food helped in surviving the "death" that didn't exist?
But there WAS innate Death!

At 7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Sorry biblical texts just don't agree with you
You didn't cite any?

Regardless, your error remains because we know they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '.

At 7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
This is a misinterpretation of what the issue is. You obviously didn't read my link. The logic is consistent that NO death of any kind existed until sin entered the world. I.E. no death at all before the fall.
You remain in error!

We know because they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '. Making them innately Mortal = subject to Death!


All this intellectual tap dancing is very amusing. From what we (as opposed to ignorant savages of antiquity) know, there never was an Adam and Eve.

All this is like arguing over which way Sherlock Holmes was seated on a train when Conan Doyle did not include that info.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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7/28/2016 12:29:53 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 3:26:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2016 4:57:13 AM, Composer wrote:
YES, Food WAS necessary for survival!

At 7/26/2016 3:41:05 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Prove it. If there was no death How do you know food helped in surviving the "death" that didn't exist?
But there WAS innate Death!

At 7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Sorry biblical texts just don't agree with you
You didn't cite any?
Right, because there is nothing that says eating is about keeping the physical body alive. The burden is for you to prove eating of any of the trees in the garden, which is biblical, was there to maintain staying alive. Just because they could eat doesn't mean they were eating to stay alive, it doesn't say that anywhere. It only says that if they eat from the tree of knowledge they would die.
Regardless, your error remains because we know they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '.
There's nothing that says the tree of life was to be eaten from "to live".
At 7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
This is a misinterpretation of what the issue is. You obviously didn't read my link. The logic is consistent that NO death of any kind existed until sin entered the world. I.E. no death at all before the fall.
You remain in error!

We know because they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '. Making them innately Mortal = subject to Death!
Composer
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7/29/2016 3:39:49 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 12:16:33 PM, Looncall wrote:
At 7/28/2016 3:26:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2016 4:57:13 AM, Composer wrote:
YES, Food WAS necessary for survival!

At 7/26/2016 3:41:05 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Prove it. If there was no death How do you know food helped in surviving the "death" that didn't exist?
But there WAS innate Death!

At 7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
Sorry biblical texts just don't agree with you
You didn't cite any?

Regardless, your error remains because we know they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '.

At 7/27/2016 2:58:44 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
This is a misinterpretation of what the issue is. You obviously didn't read my link. The logic is consistent that NO death of any kind existed until sin entered the world. I.E. no death at all before the fall.
You remain in error!

We know because they were dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' Live Forever '. Making them innately Mortal = subject to Death!


All this intellectual tap dancing is very amusing. From what we (as opposed to ignorant savages of antiquity) know, there never was an Adam and Eve.

All this is like arguing over which way Sherlock Holmes was seated on a train when Conan Doyle did not include that info.
Yes! Yes!

But we are discussing what the Story book actually says as opposed to those that (unlike Moi) try to make it say/show something, but doesn't!!