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Why do so many Christians act so differently.

dhardage
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7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?
thedynasty139
Posts: 160
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7/27/2016 4:00:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I have yet to see a Christian do just one of these things.

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
pacchu
Posts: 68
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7/27/2016 4:05:27 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that? : :

Christians are not who they think they are. Some of them believe they are saints after reading the new testament. That is like believing your Superman after reading Superman comic books. God's saints were chosen long before anyone inhabited an earth.

Ephesians 1
1: Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are also faithful in Christ Jesus:
2: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

No Christian understands what a saint is or why God used them. They don't know that God already planned everything his people experience within their created consciousness so it's pointless for Christians to pray for anything. They do it to show how godly they are but they're only hypocrites who have never heard the voice of God or obeyed any of his commandments which is necessary to be used to testify to everything the voice of God delivers into their minds.

Matthew 6
5: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
6: But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
7: "And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8: Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9: Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
dhardage
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7/27/2016 4:09:42 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 4:00:24 PM, thedynasty139 wrote:
I have yet to see a Christian do just one of these things.

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

There are those who do. One pastor from such a congregation died from snake venom poisoning. Apparently it has killed a number of practitioners.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com...
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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7/27/2016 4:11:15 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15)

John 6, verses 41-42
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v3nesl
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7/27/2016 4:11:58 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 4:11:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15)

John 6, verses 41-42

Whoops - John 11. Not sure where 6 came from!
This space for rent.
dhardage
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7/27/2016 4:13:59 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 4:11:58 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15)

John 6, verses 41-42

Whoops - John 11. Not sure where 6 came from!

What is the relevance of the story of Lazarus?
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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7/27/2016 4:58:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 4:13:59 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:58 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15)

John 6, verses 41-42

Whoops - John 11. Not sure where 6 came from!

What is the relevance of the story of Lazarus?

You'll just have to take the extreme measure of actually reading the verses. It's two verses, man, you can handle it.
This space for rent.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/27/2016 5:09:50 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

Because Satan has created thousands of counterfeit version, and even inside them there is not the unity that there should be.

The only group which remotely matches what they should do are the JWs.

They aren't perfect and they don't claim to be.

They aren't infallible, and they don't claim to be.

What they are is constantly vigilant to follow the patterns set by Christ and the Apostles.

And they are the only ones striving to match up to Matthew 7:21-23, and John 4:23-24.
dhardage
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7/27/2016 5:19:44 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 4:58:11 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:13:59 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:58 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15)

John 6, verses 41-42

Whoops - John 11. Not sure where 6 came from!

What is the relevance of the story of Lazarus?

You'll just have to take the extreme measure of actually reading the verses. It's two verses, man, you can handle it.

I read the entire chapter. I see no relevance. Please enlighten me.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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7/27/2016 6:07:54 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 5:19:44 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:58:11 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:13:59 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:58 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15)

John 6, verses 41-42

Whoops - John 11. Not sure where 6 came from!

What is the relevance of the story of Lazarus?

You'll just have to take the extreme measure of actually reading the verses. It's two verses, man, you can handle it.

I read the entire chapter. I see no relevance. Please enlighten me.

In those 2 verses Jesus prays publicly, and for the express purpose of making a point with the onlookers. So obviously Jesus was not opposed to public prayer per se.
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bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/27/2016 6:24:14 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

This is like asking why do some atheists believe in ghosts and not others, or why do atheists sometimes so "oh my god!" Or use god as a term ever. Or why do some atheists believe in aliens and others dont?
People are not uniform, they never have been and never will be.
annanicole
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7/27/2016 6:30:27 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 5:09:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

Because Satan has created thousands of counterfeit version, and even inside them there is not the unity that there should be.

The only group which remotely matches what they should do are the JWs.

... and has been stated many times, a forced unity based upon mandated acceptance and promulgation of gross error is hardly the type of unity for which Jesus prayed. One example - perhaps not the best example - would be the years from about 1919 through 1926 when so-called Bible Students were dismissed/disfellowshipped/whatever you want to call it for refusal to believe/teach the 1925 nonsense. That is not "remotely matching what they should do."

If a few buffoons at the WatchTower headquarters want to believe that Armageddon will occur in 1925, that's their business. What they aren't allowed to do is lie about it by claiming direct revelation on the matter, and further lie by claiming the Bible teaches it, then compound the error by forcing people who know better into accepting it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/27/2016 7:57:54 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 6:30:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/27/2016 5:09:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

Because Satan has created thousands of counterfeit version, and even inside them there is not the unity that there should be.

The only group which remotely matches what they should do are the JWs.

... and has been stated many times, a forced unity based upon mandated acceptance and promulgation of gross error is hardly the type of unity for which Jesus prayed. One example - perhaps not the best example - would be the years from about 1919 through 1926 when so-called Bible Students were dismissed/disfellowshipped/whatever you want to call it for refusal to believe/teach the 1925 nonsense. That is not "remotely matching what they should do."

And as I have pointed out many times over, at that point they did not know it was gross error, or any other sort of error.

Once they learned any who had been disfellowshipped and sought their way back were accepted so no harm done.

Don;t forget the JWs are not the judges of men, Christ is, do you think Christ will turn away anyone disfellowshipped in error?

Of course he won't.

Disfellowshipped r not, if you stay loyal to Jehovah, as I am, you will not be ruled out.

I wonder how many were disfellowshipped in error in the 1st century in the cause of the absolute unity all followers of Christ have to adhere to?

There are truths we know now which the Apostles didn't, despite your complete lack of understanding what Peter said and applying it to all time not just his time.

However the unity that the Governing Body enforces is exactly that which the APostles enforced.

Unity according to current knowledge. No-one can do otherwise.


If a few buffoons at the WatchTower headquarters want to believe that Armageddon will occur in 1925, that's their business. What they aren't allowed to do is lie about it by claiming direct revelation on the matter, and further lie by claiming the Bible teaches it, then compound the error by forcing people who know better into accepting it.

They weren't lying. They were mistaken and there is a whole world of difference. If they are saying what they believed at the time if is not a lie.

By the standard you apply above everything you post in here is a lie not an error.

Apart from that those "buffoons" as you call them are all dead now, and no doubt the anointed amongst them are in heaven alongside Christ as their reward for at least doing their best to maintain unity.

You try to demand a perfection that you are much further away from providing than they were, and yet all Jehovah and Christ demand of anyone is the best they can do. If that were not true we would all be condemned, and Christ would have wasted his sacrifice.

All you have demonstrated above is how little you truly understand and how hypocritical you are.
annanicole
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7/27/2016 8:05:15 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 7:57:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 6:30:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/27/2016 5:09:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

Because Satan has created thousands of counterfeit version, and even inside them there is not the unity that there should be.

The only group which remotely matches what they should do are the JWs.

... and has been stated many times, a forced unity based upon mandated acceptance and promulgation of gross error is hardly the type of unity for which Jesus prayed. One example - perhaps not the best example - would be the years from about 1919 through 1926 when so-called Bible Students were dismissed/disfellowshipped/whatever you want to call it for refusal to believe/teach the 1925 nonsense. That is not "remotely matching what they should do."

And as I have pointed out many times over, at that point they did not know it was gross error, or any other sort of error.

Yes, they did. They might not have known it right at first, but I am certain that they did by 1920-1921. Several other groups pointed out their errors, step by step and point by point, to them. That's why NOBODY ELSE save the dimwits in Brooklyn persisted in believing anything pertaining to 1925.

However the unity that the Governing Body enforces is exactly that which the APostles enforced.

Give an example of the apostles and elders enforcing a unity based upon acceptance/promulgation of error.

If a few buffoons at the WatchTower headquarters want to believe that Armageddon will occur in 1925, that's their business. What they aren't allowed to do is lie about it by claiming direct revelation on the matter, and further lie by claiming the Bible teaches it, then compound the error by forcing people who know better into accepting it.

They weren't lying. They were mistaken and there is a whole world of difference. If they are saying what they believed at the time if is not a lie.

By the standard you apply above everything you post in here is a lie not an error.

Apart from that those "buffoons" as you call them are all dead now, and no doubt the anointed amongst them are in heaven alongside Christ as their reward for at least doing their best to maintain unity.

A reward for teaching a bunch of semi-literate people some ridiculous "end times" notions that had time and time again been proven wrong WELL BEFORE 1925 finally arrived? As a reward for that, they are in heaven now?

You try to demand a perfection that you are much further away from providing than they were,

No, I don't. I demand that when a certain religious group - any group, including the JW's - engage in a bunch of speculative nonsense that they refrain from implying that God is revealing anything to them directly. Just tell people the truth: "We came up with this by ourselves. Nobody else much believes it. Accept it if you want to."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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7/27/2016 8:31:50 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 7:57:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 6:30:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/27/2016 5:09:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

Because Satan has created thousands of counterfeit version, and even inside them there is not the unity that there should be.

The only group which remotely matches what they should do are the JWs.

... and has been stated many times, a forced unity based upon mandated acceptance and promulgation of gross error is hardly the type of unity for which Jesus prayed. One example - perhaps not the best example - would be the years from about 1919 through 1926 when so-called Bible Students were dismissed/disfellowshipped/whatever you want to call it for refusal to believe/teach the 1925 nonsense. That is not "remotely matching what they should do."

And as I have pointed out many times over, at that point they did not know it was gross error, or any other sort of error.

Evidently their leaders did, for Judge Rutherford was challenged to numerous debates on the subject. Guess how many the old dude accepted? You got it: not a one! Yet he scoured the countryside telling his listeners that opponents were scared to publicly debate him!

What he did was this: Judge Rutherford issued a challenge, BUT he was slick and conniving enough to only challenge the Roman Catholic hierarchy! Of course, they weren't going to fool with him. That would like entering two ugly girls in a beauty pageant. As insurance, he demanded that his opponents put up $50,000 or $60,000 to pay for the WatchTower securing a coast-to-coast radio broadcast of the debate. When it came to the usual conservative Protestant groups who frequently challenged him, Rutherford ducked for cover. Then he ran around saying, "Nobody will accept my challenge for debate." Typical WatchTowerism again!

Even without a debate, literature from the period (1920-1924) which thoroughly exposes the error positively abounds. It is very thorough and very compelling. Scores of well-known speakers publicly exposed the errors well prior to 1925. Yet you claim that in spite of overwhelming evidence, they still believed it. Maybe so, but that doesn't speak very well of their intellect or holy spirit guidance. It speaks volumes, hwoever, of their ability to whip ignorant, illiterate people into a frenzy. Fortunately, the frenzy didn't last. It came to a halt in 1926.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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7/27/2016 8:56:26 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 4:00:24 PM, thedynasty139 wrote:
I have yet to see a Christian do just one of these things.

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

You've never seen Christians pick up snakes? Look up Appalachian ministries and snakes. Ironically the pastor's keep dying of snake bites.
annanicole
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7/27/2016 9:44:21 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 7:57:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 6:30:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/27/2016 5:09:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:

And as I have pointed out many times over, at that point they did not know it was gross error, or any other sort of error.

... and has been pointed out to you, the JW higher-ups never really lie, according to you. The truth of the matter is ... yes, they do. As was ably pointed out to you, the following statement is an out-and-out lie:

"The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus" presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." - Watchtower, Jan 15, 1993, p. 5.

As an unqualified statement, that's a lie. They haven't done that consistently at all.

"Jehovah's Witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of 'the conclusion of the system of things'." - Awake! Jan 22, 1973, p.8

That's an out-and-out lie. This has been pointed out to you before. The truth is that for forty years prior to 1914, the WatchTower pointed forward to 1914 as the END of this system, the END of what they styled the "time of trouble." Sixty years later, they were claiming that they merely looked to 1914 as the BEGINNING.

Here's the difference in the story - then versus now:

1894: "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." - WatchTower Jul 15, 1894, p.226

They claimed that the great battle would END in October of 1914, and that it actually started in 1874.

It's quite easy to prove, even to you. Just put a TRUE or FALSE right in front of the very quote from the WatchTower:

_______ "Jehovah's Witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of 'the conclusion of the system of things'."

Did they actually do that? If so, provide the citations. Or are we seeing a sort of historical revisionism here, i. e. lying about the matter?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dhardage
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7/29/2016 2:18:26 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 6:07:54 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 5:19:44 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:58:11 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:13:59 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:58 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15)

John 6, verses 41-42

Whoops - John 11. Not sure where 6 came from!

What is the relevance of the story of Lazarus?

You'll just have to take the extreme measure of actually reading the verses. It's two verses, man, you can handle it.

I read the entire chapter. I see no relevance. Please enlighten me.

In those 2 verses Jesus prays publicly, and for the express purpose of making a point with the onlookers. So obviously Jesus was not opposed to public prayer per se.

He did not pray for the sake of being seen as pious, he prayed so that those assembled would believe him and understand who actually brought Lazarus back. It was not a common practice for him and not something he did on a daily basis. This in no way changes the fact that, for the most part, he condemned public prayer as an exercise in vanity and told his followers to pray in private, keeping it between themselves and God.
dhardage
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7/29/2016 2:20:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 6:24:14 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

This is like asking why do some atheists believe in ghosts and not others, or why do atheists sometimes so "oh my god!" Or use god as a term ever. Or why do some atheists believe in aliens and others dont?
People are not uniform, they never have been and never will be.

That does not answer the question. All Christians claim to believe in Christ and are supposed to follow his example. The vast majority, particularly in this country, do not. I'd like to know why.
desmac
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7/29/2016 2:23:25 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 8:56:26 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:00:24 PM, thedynasty139 wrote:
I have yet to see a Christian do just one of these things.

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

You've never seen Christians pick up snakes? Look up Appalachian ministries and snakes. Ironically the pastor's keep dying of snake bites.

Nobody told them the Darwin Award was not something to aspire to.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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7/29/2016 2:28:40 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 2:18:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 6:07:54 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 5:19:44 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:58:11 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:13:59 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:58 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15)

John 6, verses 41-42

Whoops - John 11. Not sure where 6 came from!

What is the relevance of the story of Lazarus?

You'll just have to take the extreme measure of actually reading the verses. It's two verses, man, you can handle it.

I read the entire chapter. I see no relevance. Please enlighten me.

In those 2 verses Jesus prays publicly, and for the express purpose of making a point with the onlookers. So obviously Jesus was not opposed to public prayer per se.

He did not pray for the sake of being seen as pious,

Agreed.

... It was not a common practice for him and not something he did on a daily basis.

He might have, actually. We also have the example of him 'saying grace', so likely he or someone else in the group did that on a daily basis.

he condemned public prayer as an exercise in vanity

I'd say he condemned public prayer that is an exercise in vanity. He was a devout Jew, not a modern 'progressive'.

and told his followers to pray in private, keeping it between themselves and God.

Just like he told your right hand not to know what your left hand was doing, or told you to pull the plank out of your eye. Jesus is meant to be heard by good hearted grownups without some axe to grind.
This space for rent.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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7/29/2016 2:55:40 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 5:09:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

Because Satan has created thousands of counterfeit version, and even inside them there is not the unity that there should be.

The only group which remotely matches what they should do are the JWs.

They aren't perfect and they don't claim to be.

They aren't infallible, and they don't claim to be.

What they are is constantly vigilant to follow the patterns set by Christ and the Apostles.

And they are the only ones striving to match up to Matthew 7:21-23, and John 4:23-24.
Satan wrote the bible and the hoovians believe every word of it except all of the ones they have to change so that it means what they want it to mean.
But they are mostly happy with the satan scriptures.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
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7/29/2016 2:57:49 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 6:24:14 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

This is like asking why do some atheists believe in ghosts and not others, or why do atheists sometimes so "oh my god!" Or use god as a term ever. Or why do some atheists believe in aliens and others dont?
People are not uniform, they never have been and never will be.

Just look at all that atheist "doctrine" you've just destroyed.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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7/29/2016 2:58:09 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 2:28:40 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/29/2016 2:18:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 6:07:54 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 5:19:44 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:58:11 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:13:59 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:58 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 4:11:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15)

John 6, verses 41-42

Whoops - John 11. Not sure where 6 came from!

What is the relevance of the story of Lazarus?

You'll just have to take the extreme measure of actually reading the verses. It's two verses, man, you can handle it.

I read the entire chapter. I see no relevance. Please enlighten me.

In those 2 verses Jesus prays publicly, and for the express purpose of making a point with the onlookers. So obviously Jesus was not opposed to public prayer per se.

He did not pray for the sake of being seen as pious,

Agreed.

... It was not a common practice for him and not something he did on a daily basis.

He might have, actually. We also have the example of him 'saying grace', so likely he or someone else in the group did that on a daily basis.

he condemned public prayer as an exercise in vanity

I'd say he condemned public prayer that is an exercise in vanity. He was a devout Jew, not a modern 'progressive'.

and told his followers to pray in private, keeping it between themselves and God.

Just like he told your right hand not to know what your left hand was doing, or told you to pull the plank out of your eye. Jesus is meant to be heard by good hearted grownups without some axe to grind.

And the personal attack begins. Can you not have a discussion on the facts and not stoop to that kind of thing? So far you have yet to actually rebut anything I have said and been totally unable to provide any justification for many of the things that the vast majority of Christians do that are out of character for Jesus as portrayed in the Christian holy book.
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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7/29/2016 3:04:27 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
How interesting.

Saying grace before meal is thanking God for the food you're about to eat.
Tell me, then, who should people with too little or even nothing to eat pray to? Who should they be thankful to?

The claim that Jesus's instruction to pray in private is as much open to interpretation as his overtly figurative remarks is just humorous, as in not meant to be taken seriously.
Omniverse
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7/29/2016 3:11:00 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 5:09:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

Because Satan has created thousands of counterfeit version, and even inside them there is not the unity that there should be.

You know nothing about the technicalities involved in translating ancient texts. Stop pretending that you do. If tomorrow the watchtower renders any given verse as " rotten apples are good for your acne", you'll be here promptly, claiming this is the best possible rendering.

Great to know North Korea is your role model when it comes to unity.


The only group which remotely matches what they should do are the JWs.

Hogwash.


They aren't perfect and they don't claim to be.

They don't claim to be perfect. In practical terms, though, they just demand strict adherence to their lunacies as though they were perfect. Can you spot the contradiction?


They aren't infallible, and they don't claim to be.

They don't claim to be infallible. In practical terms, though, they just demand strict adherence to their lunacies as though they were infallible. Can you spot the contradiction?


What they are is constantly vigilant to follow the patterns set by Christ and the Apostles.

And they are the only ones striving to match up to Matthew 7:21-23, and John 4:23-24.

Don't be silly.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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7/29/2016 3:47:25 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 2:58:09 PM, dhardage wrote:
...

Just like he told your right hand not to know what your left hand was doing, or told you to pull the plank out of your eye. Jesus is meant to be heard by good hearted grownups without some axe to grind.

And the personal attack begins.

Like "You hypocrites! You brood of snakes!" ? Of course, I don't have the moral authority of Jesus, I'm just a sinner myself. But clearly you are *using* Jesus to support your desire to tell other people how to live (namely, to keep their religion quiet)

Can you not have a discussion on the facts and not stoop to that kind of thing?

No, probably not. So if you want my opinions, you'll just have to pick out the bones. Like either American or international football, if you're going to whistle every bit of contact you're not going to have much of a game.

So far you have yet to actually rebut anything I have said

Well of course I did, lol. Flat out flattened your first point. Jesus was not opposed to public prayer. It's a nonsensical claim if you just think about it a little. I'm not responsible for the fact that you unthinkingly signed on to a bit of modern political malarkey. Don't shoot the messenger, man up instead.
This space for rent.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/29/2016 3:50:39 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 2:20:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2016 6:24:14 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

This is like asking why do some atheists believe in ghosts and not others, or why do atheists sometimes so "oh my god!" Or use god as a term ever. Or why do some atheists believe in aliens and others dont?
People are not uniform, they never have been and never will be.

That does not answer the question. All Christians claim to believe in Christ and are supposed to follow his example. The vast majority, particularly in this country, do not. I'd like to know why.

Again not all people are uniform. Maybe this comparison will help better. Most people in America claim to be Americans. Yet they download music illegally, drive over the speed limit, own or do illegal substances. Carry guns in places its been banned anyway. Drive without a liscense. Dont pay taxes. Well why is that if everyone claims to be an American doesnt it entail you should follow ALL the American laws?
Why would an American ever not see a law as fit to obey?
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/29/2016 3:51:26 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 2:57:49 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/27/2016 6:24:14 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/27/2016 3:53:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
..from Christ in the Bible. In the bible Jesus specifically criticizes public prayer (Matthew 6, Verses 1-15) yet here people are praying at every public event possible including sporting events. Christ never entered politics or tried to get laws changed to support his way of thinking yet here are so-called Christians trying to do just that. Christ said it would be harder for a rich man to go to heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25) yet I see many so-called Christians (even supposed clergy) living very well indeed. This is just a sample of how so many who claim to revere and even worship Christ fail to emulate his example. Why is that?

This is like asking why do some atheists believe in ghosts and not others, or why do atheists sometimes so "oh my god!" Or use god as a term ever. Or why do some atheists believe in aliens and others dont?
People are not uniform, they never have been and never will be.

Just look at all that atheist "doctrine" you've just destroyed.

Its an analogy. Nothing more.