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My favorite chapter in the entire bible

desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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7/29/2016 9:35:07 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.

Cherry-picking at its finest. I knew many Jews; and when asked about this chapter they told me that in fact, they DID learn it in school.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/29/2016 9:41:55 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 9:35:07 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.

Cherry-picking at its finest. I knew many Jews; and when asked about this chapter they told me that in fact, they DID learn it in school.

There is a hint of biblical self-plagiarism in this tale.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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7/29/2016 9:52:46 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

then people wonder why the bible isn't allowed in schools
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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7/29/2016 11:05:38 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 9:41:55 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:35:07 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.

Cherry-picking at its finest. I knew many Jews; and when asked about this chapter they told me that in fact, they DID learn it in school.

There is a hint of biblical self-plagiarism in this tale.

Regarding what part of it?
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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7/29/2016 11:06:15 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 9:52:46 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

then people wonder why the bible isn't allowed in schools

It really shouldn't be; just like Game of Thrones, Fifty shades, etc.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/29/2016 11:17:35 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 11:05:38 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:41:55 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:35:07 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.

Cherry-picking at its finest. I knew many Jews; and when asked about this chapter they told me that in fact, they DID learn it in school.

There is a hint of biblical self-plagiarism in this tale.

Regarding what part of it?

A nod in the direction of Gomorrah.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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7/29/2016 11:19:34 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 11:17:35 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 11:05:38 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:41:55 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:35:07 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.

Cherry-picking at its finest. I knew many Jews; and when asked about this chapter they told me that in fact, they DID learn it in school.

There is a hint of biblical self-plagiarism in this tale.

Regarding what part of it?

A nod in the direction of Gomorrah.

Hmm; it really is, come to think of it. Either that or people were just always that terrible.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/29/2016 11:22:23 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 11:19:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 11:17:35 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 11:05:38 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:41:55 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:35:07 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.

Cherry-picking at its finest. I knew many Jews; and when asked about this chapter they told me that in fact, they DID learn it in school.

There is a hint of biblical self-plagiarism in this tale.

Regarding what part of it?

A nod in the direction of Gomorrah.

Hmm; it really is, come to think of it. Either that or people were just always that terrible.

If this kind of thing was happening all over the area at the time, no wonder they needed to invent an authoritarian god to keep themselves in line.
dee-em
Posts: 6,495
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7/29/2016 12:51:42 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 9:35:07 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.

Cherry-picking at its finest. I knew many Jews; and when asked about this chapter they told me that in fact, they DID learn it in school.

Maybe in school but not in class. More like at the back of the sheds.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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7/29/2016 1:25:36 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 11:22:23 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 11:19:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 11:17:35 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 11:05:38 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:41:55 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:35:07 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.

Cherry-picking at its finest. I knew many Jews; and when asked about this chapter they told me that in fact, they DID learn it in school.

There is a hint of biblical self-plagiarism in this tale.

Regarding what part of it?

A nod in the direction of Gomorrah.

Hmm; it really is, come to think of it. Either that or people were just always that terrible.

If this kind of thing was happening all over the area at the time, no wonder they needed to invent an authoritarian god to keep themselves in line.

Even with it; they were pretty terrible. Just read the rest of Judges.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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7/29/2016 1:26:52 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 12:51:42 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:35:07 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 7/29/2016 8:56:12 AM, desmac wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

They never read that one to us in Sunday school.

Cherry-picking at its finest. I knew many Jews; and when asked about this chapter they told me that in fact, they DID learn it in school.

Maybe in school but not in class. More like at the back of the sheds.

They said it was in class; but then again, they're Jews (jokejokejoke).
HeavenlyPanda
Posts: 819
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7/29/2016 1:55:02 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 1:47:04 PM, bulproof wrote:
Ch1 V1
This is absolute crap.

Read this, it'll enlighten you with so much knowledge you'll die of boredom.

Matthew 1:1-17New International Version (NIV)

The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah
1 This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah"s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.
17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.
HeavenlyPanda. The most heavenly of all heavenly creatures.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/29/2016 2:12:28 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 1:55:02 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/29/2016 1:47:04 PM, bulproof wrote:
Ch1 V1
This is absolute crap.

Read this, it'll enlighten you with so much knowledge you'll die of boredom.


Matthew 1:1-17New International Version (NIV)

The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah
1 This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah"s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.
17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.

TL ;DR
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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7/29/2016 3:11:06 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 1:55:02 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/29/2016 1:47:04 PM, bulproof wrote:
Ch1 V1
This is absolute crap.

Read this, it'll enlighten you with so much knowledge you'll die of boredom.
You're right and I didn't read it.
missmedic
Posts: 390
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7/29/2016 3:24:27 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

Did I read that right, there was a murder after a sex party?
HeavenlyPanda
Posts: 819
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7/29/2016 3:29:33 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 3:24:27 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

Did I read that right, there was a murder after a sex party?

What?!?
HeavenlyPanda. The most heavenly of all heavenly creatures.
missmedic
Posts: 390
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7/29/2016 3:36:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 3:29:33 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/29/2016 3:24:27 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

Did I read that right, there was a murder after a sex party?

What?!?

I said "Did I read that right, there was a murder after a sex party? "
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,240
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7/29/2016 3:40:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 1:55:02 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/29/2016 1:47:04 PM, bulproof wrote:
Ch1 V1
This is absolute crap.

Read this, it'll enlighten you with so much knowledge you'll die of boredom.


Matthew 1:1-17New International Version (NIV)

The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah
1 This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah"s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.
17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.

...?

What an oddball prophecy. Here is the lineage of fathers, all the way down to..... IRRELEVANT! VIRGING CONCEPTION!

har dee har har!

Arguably, Jesus is not of those generations as his conception had nothing to do with Joseph.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/29/2016 7:25:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

The biblical moral of the story is that if a Christian man willingly gives a sexual partner to a group of men to be raped, then you must cut up her dead body and mail the parts to all your Christian friends.

Am I getting that right? Maybe a Christian can enlighten me as to how this is a 'godly' story/lesson.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,084
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7/30/2016 12:31:40 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 7:25:45 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

The biblical moral of the story is that if a Christian man willingly gives a sexual partner to a group of men to be raped, then you must cut up her dead body and mail the parts to all your Christian friends.

Am I getting that right? Maybe a Christian can enlighten me as to how this is a 'godly' story/lesson.

Probably - they've have 2000 years of practice at that sort of thing!

But if you want the truth, remember the OT is - amongst other things - an 'official history' of Hebrew people. I say 'official' because its purpose was primarily political and nationalistic, not objective reportage of unvarnished fact. My views have changed over the years from thinking the bible is essentially theological veneer over a substantially true historical account to what I believe now - that the historical core of the bible is very small and it is largely fiction. But that is another matter.

The point is that the later part of Judges - including ch19 - serves as a bridge. It tells of the period after the time when the Hebrew were ruled by 'Judges' who operated on tribal lines but were guided by YHWH's laws. That system broke down, the Hebrews became apostates from YHWH and anarchy ruled. Judges 19 is intended to show how bad things had got.

The book of Judges ends with "In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes." - in other words men did what they liked, anarchy ruled and it was time for new system based on kingship.

The next, royal phase of Hebrew history begins in the next-but-one book (The book of Ruth was inserted), Samuel which tells of how Saul became king, setting the stage for the great kings of Hebrew legend David and Solomon.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,084
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7/30/2016 12:54:44 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Postscript - it might not be clear to the short of attenion span from my post above but ch19 is about what happens when god is not around - it is not intended as a model for good people to copy!
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/30/2016 2:26:49 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

My favorite part about it are these parts
Judges 20:13
13 Now turn those wicked men of Gibeah over to us so that we may put them to death and purge the evil from Israel."
But the Benjamites would not listen to their fellow Israelites

Judges 20:37
37 Those who had been in ambush made a sudden dash into Gibeah, spread out and put the whole city to the sword.

Judges 20:46-48
46 On that day twenty-five thousand Benjamite swordsmen fell, all of them valiant fighters. 47 But six hundred of them turned and fled into the wilderness to the rock of Rimmon, where they stayed four months. 48 The men of Israel went back to Benjamin and put all the towns to the sword, including the animals and everything else they found. All the towns they came across they set on fire.

what a lovely conclusion to such an evil act don't you think?
keithprosser
Posts: 2,084
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7/30/2016 2:44:29 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Same thing as Judges 19 - it shows how far Israel can sink into anarchy without YHWH. The writers of the OT did not approve of such things nor did they want people to think YHWH approved of them - quite the opposite.

For accounts of violence YHWH did approve of, you are better off looking at, say the Book of Joshua.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,084
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7/30/2016 2:51:24 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
On the subject of Judges chapter 11 tells the story of a human sacrifice YHWH takes in exchange for a victory in battle.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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7/31/2016 5:52:13 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 1:55:02 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/29/2016 1:47:04 PM, bulproof wrote:
Ch1 V1
This is absolute crap.

Read this, it'll enlighten you with so much knowledge you'll die of boredom.


Matthew 1:1-17New International Version (NIV)

The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah
1 This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah"s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.
17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.

Not sure exactly how this would enlighten me; even if there was any evidence supporting this, it wouldn't exactly mean much.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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7/31/2016 5:54:04 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 3:24:27 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:57:45 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Judges 19

Go read it for yourself; and don't stop in the middle.

Did I read that right, there was a murder after a sex party?

Not exactly, she was killed WHILST she was being raped; and then her husband, instead of mourning for her, chopped her up into 12 nice little pieces, and then sent one to each of Israel's tribes.

I don't even.