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Does your morality extend to animals?

janesix
Posts: 5,825
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7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.
Harikrish
Posts: 13,612
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7/30/2016 9:19:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality should include animals. Only that will help to reduce the abuse of animals and Beastiality that is growing in Europe and America with Australia the leading cause of Koala extinction from human sexually transmitted diseases.
janesix
Posts: 5,825
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7/30/2016 9:22:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:19:48 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality should include animals. Only that will help to reduce the abuse of animals and Beastiality that is growing in Europe and America with Australia the leading cause of Koala extinction from human sexually transmitted diseases.

Do you have sympathy for the suffering of animals hari?
Harikrish
Posts: 13,612
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7/30/2016 9:37:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:22:30 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:19:48 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality should include animals. Only that will help to reduce the abuse of animals and Beastiality that is growing in Europe and America with Australia the leading cause of Koala extinction from human sexually transmitted diseases.

Do you have sympathy for the suffering of animals hari?

As a Hindu I respect all life. That is why I am a vegetarian.
janesix
Posts: 5,825
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7/30/2016 9:45:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:37:33 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:22:30 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:19:48 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality should include animals. Only that will help to reduce the abuse of animals and Beastiality that is growing in Europe and America with Australia the leading cause of Koala extinction from human sexually transmitted diseases.

Do you have sympathy for the suffering of animals hari?

As a Hindu I respect all life. That is why I am a vegetarian.

Respect isnt sympathy. Do you feel sympathy when an animal suffers?
Harikrish
Posts: 13,612
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7/30/2016 9:51:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:45:54 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:37:33 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:22:30 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:19:48 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality should include animals. Only that will help to reduce the abuse of animals and Beastiality that is growing in Europe and America with Australia the leading cause of Koala extinction from human sexually transmitted diseases.

Do you have sympathy for the suffering of animals hari?

As a Hindu I respect all life. That is why I am a vegetarian.

Respect isnt sympathy. Do you feel sympathy when an animal suffers?

Of course I feel sympathy seeing animals suffer.
janesix
Posts: 5,825
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7/30/2016 9:55:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:51:32 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:45:54 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:37:33 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:22:30 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:19:48 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality should include animals. Only that will help to reduce the abuse of animals and Beastiality that is growing in Europe and America with Australia the leading cause of Koala extinction from human sexually transmitted diseases.

Do you have sympathy for the suffering of animals hari?

As a Hindu I respect all life. That is why I am a vegetarian.

Respect isnt sympathy. Do you feel sympathy when an animal suffers?

Of course I feel sympathy seeing animals suffer.
Thats a relief. Not everyone does.
Harikrish
Posts: 13,612
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7/30/2016 10:20:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:55:58 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:51:32 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:45:54 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:37:33 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:22:30 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:19:48 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality should include animals. Only that will help to reduce the abuse of animals and Beastiality that is growing in Europe and America with Australia the leading cause of Koala extinction from human sexually transmitted diseases.

Do you have sympathy for the suffering of animals hari?

As a Hindu I respect all life. That is why I am a vegetarian.

Respect isnt sympathy. Do you feel sympathy when an animal suffers?

Of course I feel sympathy seeing animals suffer.
Thats a relief. Not everyone does.

That is shocking. The SPCA has been around for decades.
janesix
Posts: 5,825
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7/30/2016 10:24:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 10:20:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:55:58 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:51:32 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:45:54 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:37:33 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:22:30 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:19:48 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality should include animals. Only that will help to reduce the abuse of animals and Beastiality that is growing in Europe and America with Australia the leading cause of Koala extinction from human sexually transmitted diseases.

Do you have sympathy for the suffering of animals hari?

As a Hindu I respect all life. That is why I am a vegetarian.

Respect isnt sympathy. Do you feel sympathy when an animal suffers?

Of course I feel sympathy seeing animals suffer.
Thats a relief. Not everyone does.

That is shocking. The SPCA has been around for decades.

About 1 percent of humans are psychopaths who lack empathy. There is at least one on ddo. I am trying to understand human nature and why we are such a$$es.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.
Harikrish
Posts: 13,612
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7/30/2016 10:53:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 10:24:09 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:20:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:55:58 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:51:32 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:45:54 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:37:33 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:22:30 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:19:48 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality should include animals. Only that will help to reduce the abuse of animals and Beastiality that is growing in Europe and America with Australia the leading cause of Koala extinction from human sexually transmitted diseases.

Do you have sympathy for the suffering of animals hari?

As a Hindu I respect all life. That is why I am a vegetarian.

Respect isnt sympathy. Do you feel sympathy when an animal suffers?

Of course I feel sympathy seeing animals suffer.
Thats a relief. Not everyone does.

That is shocking. The SPCA has been around for decades.

About 1 percent of humans are psychopaths who lack empathy. There is at least one on ddo. I am trying to understand human nature and why we are such a$$es.
Anyone watching animals care for their young will immediately feel an empathy for animals and recognize our common nurturing characteristics.

Human instinct for survival are just as strong as animals. But we overcompensate our insecurity by using everything at our disposal to tilt the balance. The nature of man is to control and rule his surrounding and we will even invoke metaphysical beings to do our bidding.
The ability to detach and transcend our physical limitations is the goal of meditation and the path to enlightenment where we reach out to the larger consciousness instead of trying to win favour through self deception and justification for our actions.
matt8800
Posts: 2,702
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7/30/2016 11:10:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Since I (and scientists) consider humans to be sophisticated animals, I believe all animals should be treated with respect and empathy.
Hayd
Posts: 4,343
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7/30/2016 11:16:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

Morality is extended to animals
janesix
Posts: 5,825
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7/31/2016 12:15:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.
I didnt say anything about animals having morality. I asked if your morality included how you think about and treat animals.
dee-em
Posts: 7,967
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7/31/2016 1:08:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.

Then how do you explain elephant behaviour:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...
Fatihah: It's like your mother making spaghetti and after you taste it and don't like it, you say "well my mom must not exist". Not because their is no logical evidence but because she doesn't do what you want.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,598
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7/31/2016 2:17:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes, my morality extends to animals, but it depends on the animal. For example, I do not feel bad for killing a worm, but would feel bad for killing a dog (unless it was attacking me).
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/31/2016 2:23:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2016 12:15:26 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.
I didnt say anything about animals having morality. I asked if your morality included how you think about and treat animals.

I don't even know how its possible someone could have no position on how to treat animals.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/31/2016 2:25:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2016 1:08:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.

Then how do you explain elephant behaviour:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...

So you hold that elephants have a moral code?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,913
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7/31/2016 2:46:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

My moral code extends to animals, but non-human animals are secondary.

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
dee-em
Posts: 7,967
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7/31/2016 5:30:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2016 2:25:21 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 1:08:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.

Then how do you explain elephant behaviour:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...

So you hold that elephants have a moral code?

Since empathy is the basis of morality, what would you say?
Fatihah: It's like your mother making spaghetti and after you taste it and don't like it, you say "well my mom must not exist". Not because their is no logical evidence but because she doesn't do what you want.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/31/2016 8:20:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2016 5:30:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 2:25:21 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 1:08:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.

Then how do you explain elephant behaviour:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...

So you hold that elephants have a moral code?

Since empathy is the basis of morality, what would you say?

I'm not sure I would say empathy is the basis of morality, rather a characteristic. The only reason I say that is because empathy could be subjective to an individuals moral code. An elephant might show empathy to one elephant in distress and then attack another that it doesn't know or be overly territorial and not use peaceful means to always resolve matters. In and of itself doesn't disqualify it, but I just have a difficult time seeing how an animal could objectively have a moral code.
dee-em
Posts: 7,967
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7/31/2016 11:16:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2016 8:20:15 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 5:30:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 2:25:21 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 1:08:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.

Then how do you explain elephant behaviour:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...

So you hold that elephants have a moral code?

Since empathy is the basis of morality, what would you say?

I'm not sure I would say empathy is the basis of morality, rather a characteristic. The only reason I say that is because empathy could be subjective to an individuals moral code. An elephant might show empathy to one elephant in distress and then attack another that it doesn't know or be overly territorial and not use peaceful means to always resolve matters.

Do you mean, exactly like human beings?

In and of itself doesn't disqualify it, but I just have a difficult time seeing how an animal could objectively have a moral code.

I suspect it might be difficult for an animal without a written language to codify its morals. My view is that all morality begins with being able to put oneself in the shoes (or whatever for an elephant) of another. Empathy (compassion) together with symmetry are the twin elements of the golden rule after all.
Fatihah: It's like your mother making spaghetti and after you taste it and don't like it, you say "well my mom must not exist". Not because their is no logical evidence but because she doesn't do what you want.
matt8800
Posts: 2,702
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7/31/2016 3:21:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2016 5:30:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 2:25:21 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 1:08:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.

Then how do you explain elephant behaviour:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...

So you hold that elephants have a moral code?

Since empathy is the basis of morality, what would you say?

Theists don't see the connection between empathy and morality, which is why they think atheists would automatically murder and rape without a book to tell them what not to do.

Their pastor tells them they will go to hell if they have sex outside of marriage or masturbate. Elephants do not perform marriage ceremonies and they sometimes masturbate, therefore it is not possible for them to be moral according to their rules.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 3,020
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7/31/2016 3:34:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.
Both humans and other living creatures.
foxxhajti
Posts: 536
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7/31/2016 4:15:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I'm an atheist. Technically speaking, other living creatures are sentient as well, just like humans. Humans are just animals who overall tend to be more rational. I don't believe that animals should be mistreated/killed unless it's for the purpose of consumption.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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7/31/2016 5:36:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2016 11:16:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 8:20:15 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 5:30:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 2:25:21 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 1:08:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.

Then how do you explain elephant behaviour:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...

So you hold that elephants have a moral code?

Since empathy is the basis of morality, what would you say?

I'm not sure I would say empathy is the basis of morality, rather a characteristic. The only reason I say that is because empathy could be subjective to an individuals moral code. An elephant might show empathy to one elephant in distress and then attack another that it doesn't know or be overly territorial and not use peaceful means to always resolve matters.

Do you mean, exactly like human beings?

See belows quote.
In and of itself doesn't disqualify it, but I just have a difficult time seeing how an animal could objectively have a moral code.

I suspect it might be difficult for an animal without a written language to codify its morals. My view is that all morality begins with being able to put oneself in the shoes (or whatever for an elephant) of another. Empathy (compassion) together with symmetry are the twin elements of the golden rule after all.

Ok so you think elephants are putting themselves in the shoes of other elephants?
dee-em
Posts: 7,967
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7/31/2016 11:53:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2016 5:36:05 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 11:16:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 8:20:15 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 5:30:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 2:25:21 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 1:08:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.

Then how do you explain elephant behaviour:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...

So you hold that elephants have a moral code?

Since empathy is the basis of morality, what would you say?

I'm not sure I would say empathy is the basis of morality, rather a characteristic. The only reason I say that is because empathy could be subjective to an individuals moral code. An elephant might show empathy to one elephant in distress and then attack another that it doesn't know or be overly territorial and not use peaceful means to always resolve matters.

Do you mean, exactly like human beings?

See belows quote.
In and of itself doesn't disqualify it, but I just have a difficult time seeing how an animal could objectively have a moral code.

I suspect it might be difficult for an animal without a written language to codify its morals. My view is that all morality begins with being able to put oneself in the shoes (or whatever for an elephant) of another. Empathy (compassion) together with symmetry are the twin elements of the golden rule after all.

Ok so you think elephants are putting themselves in the shoes of other elephants?

Metaphorically speaking, yes. That is what empathy is:

empathy
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.


You can't understand and share the feelings of another unless you can put yourself in their shoes and walk around in them.
Fatihah: It's like your mother making spaghetti and after you taste it and don't like it, you say "well my mom must not exist". Not because their is no logical evidence but because she doesn't do what you want.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/1/2016 2:34:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2016 11:53:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 5:36:05 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 11:16:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 8:20:15 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 5:30:36 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/31/2016 2:25:21 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/31/2016 1:08:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/30/2016 10:49:16 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 7/30/2016 9:02:04 PM, janesix wrote:
And other living creatures capable of suffering, or is your morality only reserved for humans?

I am interested in hearing from both theists and atheists.

I don't think animals have morality. They are the ultimate example of what humans would be without it.

Then how do you explain elephant behaviour:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...

So you hold that elephants have a moral code?

Since empathy is the basis of morality, what would you say?

I'm not sure I would say empathy is the basis of morality, rather a characteristic. The only reason I say that is because empathy could be subjective to an individuals moral code. An elephant might show empathy to one elephant in distress and then attack another that it doesn't know or be overly territorial and not use peaceful means to always resolve matters.

Do you mean, exactly like human beings?

See belows quote.
In and of itself doesn't disqualify it, but I just have a difficult time seeing how an animal could objectively have a moral code.

I suspect it might be difficult for an animal without a written language to codify its morals. My view is that all morality begins with being able to put oneself in the shoes (or whatever for an elephant) of another. Empathy (compassion) together with symmetry are the twin elements of the golden rule after all.

Ok so you think elephants are putting themselves in the shoes of other elephants?

Metaphorically speaking, yes. That is what empathy is:

empathy
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.


You can't understand and share the feelings of another unless you can put yourself in their shoes and walk around in them.

Just metaphorically, ok.