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Christ's influence in history

Jarjar3000
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12/30/2010 9:40:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Was or was not Jesus of Nazareth the most influential person in history and why or why not?
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/30/2010 9:43:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 9:40:23 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Was or was not Jesus of Nazareth the most influential person in history and why or why not?

no... and because what'd he do?
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Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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12/30/2010 9:54:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Hah that is a good one, have you never heard of Jesus before?
Let me inform you then, he not only changed the course of history for the mighty roman empire but he also changed the Course of history of Europe, the Americas, and has a following of about 2 billion people. He did not do this with force as a certain other religion did. All he did was speak the truth, with love. How many people have done this before him, how many great people have modeled themselves after him? MLK jr, Mother Theresa, Issac Newton just to name a few.

http://www.numberof.net...
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/30/2010 10:01:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 9:54:12 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Hah that is a good one, have you never heard of Jesus before?
Let me inform you then, he not only changed the course of history for the mighty roman empire but he also changed the Course of history of Europe, the Americas,

how?

and has a following of about 2 billion people.

where're they following him?
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Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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12/30/2010 10:29:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
He started a revolution, not one with violence or rebellion but with love, which changed the world as you know it.

I'm not going to spell it out for you, you can use your sarcastic or funny answers to hide behind if you like, but I'm just gonna leave you alone on that.
God Bless You my friend
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/30/2010 10:33:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 10:29:54 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
He started a revolution, not one with violence or rebellion but with love, which changed the world as you know it.

you can't revolt without violence or rebellion.. that's doing nothing.. which changes nothing.

I'm not going to spell it out for you, you can use your sarcastic or funny answers to hide behind if you like, but I'm just gonna leave you alone on that.
God Bless You my friend

ok then? honest question..
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vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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12/30/2010 10:34:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 9:40:23 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Was or was not Jesus of Nazareth the most influential person in history and why or why not?

Maybe, but consider that second place would probably go to Muhammad.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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12/30/2010 10:36:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 10:29:54 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
He started a revolution, not one with violence or rebellion but with love, which changed the world as you know it.

I'm not going to spell it out for you, you can use your sarcastic or funny answers to hide behind if you like, but I'm just gonna leave you alone on that.
God Bless You my friend

What did he revolutionize?
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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12/30/2010 10:48:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Actually that is why it was so crazy and no one understood it, Jesus told his followers that if someone beat you to turn him the other cheek also. Answer me this why if Christians didn't use any kind of violence or force did the romans of the first century and pretty much everyone else want to kill and persecute christians?

Yea I can see that, but the reason in my opinion that Jesus would be ahead of the last prophet of Islam is because M. spread Islam by the sword, but Christianity was not spread by any kind of violence at the start.
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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12/30/2010 11:25:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 10:48:05 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Actually that is why it was so crazy and no one understood it, Jesus told his followers that if someone beat you to turn him the other cheek also.

Are you saying that Jesus gave the world masochism?

Answer me this why if Christians didn't use any kind of violence or force did the
romans of the first century and pretty much everyone else want to kill and
persecute christians?

I'll have to read up on that - but why do you ask?

Yea I can see that, but the reason in my opinion that Jesus would be ahead of the last prophet of Islam is because M. spread Islam by the sword, but Christianity was not spread by any kind of violence at the start.

Christians "at the start" did not start out with the means to do so.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
tigg13
Posts: 302
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12/30/2010 11:46:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 9:40:23 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Was or was not Jesus of Nazareth the most influential person in history and why or why not?

Well, first off, for Jesus to have been the most influential person in history, he would have had to have been an actual person who actually did all of the things he has been said to have done. And there isn't a whole lot of historical evidence to support that he was.

Second most of the things that have attributed to Jesus over last 2000 years should really be awarded to those who believed in him. Consider, for example, the crusades and the inquisitions and the witch burnings - were these things the result of Jesus' influence.

And what about Siddhartha and Lao Tzu? Both predated Jesus by a couple of hundred years. And both brought messages that transformed whole nations and affected the lives of billions of people.
Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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12/31/2010 3:29:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Masochism??

I ask because why would the world want to put down a people group who were doing nothing, its because they werent doing nothing, the people saw a revolution stirring in the hearts and minds of the people and they did not like it so they tried to eliminate them but that only made them grow even more.
If you are referring to the crusades then check out this book, The politically incorrect guide to islam and the crusades.

Who is Tao, and where is his influence in todays world? Some far off third world country or what?
As for your reference to no evidence for Jesus being alive, woow i have not heard that in a very long time, even the very liberal history channel gives credit to his existence, you need to do some better research my friend.
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
tigg13
Posts: 302
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12/31/2010 5:03:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/31/2010 3:29:06 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Masochism??

I ask because why would the world want to put down a people group who were doing nothing, its because they werent doing nothing, the people saw a revolution stirring in the hearts and minds of the people and they did not like it so they tried to eliminate them but that only made them grow even more.
If you are referring to the crusades then check out this book, The politically incorrect guide to islam and the crusades.

I think you intended this response for someone else, but I'll respond anyway.

When you say that "the world" wanted to put Christians down, who are you talking about? With the exception of the crusades (which started as an aggressive action by the Catholic Church), the only people who have ever repressed Christians in any significant numbers have been other Christians. Christianity has survived mostly because it is a very effective tool for controlling people.

Christianity did not rise to power through a revolution but by the conversion of Emperor Constantine who set about the job of sanitizing the religion of any "heretical" influences that might work against his position as Emperor. Christianity was spread throughout the empire as the official church of Rome - meaning, you convert or suffer the consequences.

The message attributed to Jesus was not revolutionary. In fact, it wasn't even original. Krishna, Mithra, and Apollonius of Tyana (to name a few) all taught the same message (and performed the same miracles, for the most part) Jesus was just more useful as a symbol for Rome.


Who is Tao, and where is his influence in todays world? Some far off third world country or what?

Oh, right. China, Japan and India are far off, third world countries. You do realize you'll probably be working for them one day.

As for your reference to no evidence for Jesus being alive, woow i have not heard that in a very long time, even the very liberal history channel gives credit to his existence, you need to do some better research my friend.

Really. Then you should have no problem providing me with historical evidence that Jesus existed. And I'm talking historical evidence of Jesus. Not Biblical junk that was written dozens of years after the fact by biased zealots, not accounts made about their being Christians in Rome (just because their were Christians doesn't mean there was a Jesus) , not forged documents like the Flavius Josephus books, not theoretically possible grave sights that might have contained is parents remains; I'm talking about actual evidence of an actual Jesus that can be verified as not only pertaining to a person called Jesus but the actual Jesus who supposedly taught the messages and performed the miracles that we attribute to him today.

Oh and by the way, there are bunches and bunches of Christians running around today who would consider themselves to be Liberals. And I'll bet a whole lot of them work for the History Channel.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/31/2010 5:55:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...
Hmmm . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Zetsubou
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1/1/2011 2:35:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/31/2010 5:03:47 PM, tigg13 wrote:
At 12/31/2010 3:29:06 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Masochism??

I ask because why would the world want to put down a people group who were doing nothing, its because they werent doing nothing, the people saw a revolution stirring in the hearts and minds of the people and they did not like it so they tried to eliminate them but that only made them grow even more.
If you are referring to the crusades then check out this book, The politically incorrect guide to islam and the crusades.

I think you intended this response for someone else, but I'll respond anyway.

When you say that "the world" wanted to put Christians down, who are you talking about? With the exception of the crusades (which started as an aggressive action by the Catholic Church), the only people who have ever repressed Christians in any significant numbers have been other Christians. Christianity has survived mostly because it is a very effective tool for controlling people.
Islam and Communism. Following a century on from the birth of Islam in the 7th Century, Christians were almost annihilated across all the regions controlled by the Umayyad caliphate and succeeding caliphates until the 19th Century. There is also Soviet Atheism; the Purge of St Petersburg and sovietism let to the deaths of several million Christians killed for longstanding unity with the Orthodox Church.

Also, the Crusades were retaliation to the Islamic(Sassanid) invasion of main land Byzantium. You saying the Crusades are Christian a Christian action of aggression is like saying WWII was a British act of aggression; after all, it was France and Britain who declared war on Germany.

I'll even go on to say that Islam has a more violent history than Christianity. This of course would be a debate challenge.

Christianity did not rise to power through a revolution but by the conversion of Emperor Constantine who set about the job of sanitizing the religion of any "heretical" influences that might work against his position as Emperor. Christianity was spread throughout the empire as the official church of Rome - meaning, you convert or suffer the consequences.
Correct.

The message attributed to Jesus was not revolutionary. In fact, it wasn't even original. Krishna, Mithra, and Apollonius of Tyana (to name a few) all taught the same message (and performed the same miracles, for the most part) Jesus was just more useful as a symbol for Rome.


Who is Tao, and where is his influence in todays world? Some far off third world country or what?

Oh, right. China, Japan and India are far off, third world countries. You do realize you'll probably be working for them one day.
Toaism never left China.

As for your reference to no evidence for Jesus being alive, woow i have not heard that in a very long time, even the very liberal history channel gives credit to his existence, you need to do some better research my friend.

Really. Then you should have no problem providing me with historical evidence that Jesus existed. And I'm talking historical evidence of Jesus. Not Biblical junk that was written dozens of years after the fact by biased zealots, not accounts made about their being Christians in Rome (just because their were Christians doesn't mean there was a Jesus) , not forged documents like the Flavius Josephus books, not theoretically possible grave sights that might have contained is parents remains; I'm talking about actual evidence of an actual Jesus that can be verified as not only pertaining to a person called Jesus but the actual Jesus who supposedly taught the messages and performed the miracles that we attribute to him today.
These accounts by zealots depict a person. A zealot is one who serves and support at an extreme degree. Following that notion, it would be fair to assume that a man did most likely exist but, like you said, his story was exaggerated by zealots.
Oh and by the way, there are bunches and bunches of Christians running around today who would consider themselves to be Liberals. And I'll bet a whole lot of them work for the History Channel.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
tigg13
Posts: 302
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1/1/2011 11:23:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/1/2011 2:35:58 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 12/31/2010 5:03:47 PM, tigg13 wrote:
At 12/31/2010 3:29:06 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Masochism??

I ask because why would the world want to put down a people group who were doing nothing, its because they werent doing nothing, the people saw a revolution stirring in the hearts and minds of the people and they did not like it so they tried to eliminate them but that only made them grow even more.
If you are referring to the crusades then check out this book, The politically incorrect guide to islam and the crusades.

I think you intended this response for someone else, but I'll respond anyway.

When you say that "the world" wanted to put Christians down, who are you talking about? With the exception of the crusades (which started as an aggressive action by the Catholic Church), the only people who have ever repressed Christians in any significant numbers have been other Christians. Christianity has survived mostly because it is a very effective tool for controlling people.
Islam and Communism. Following a century on from the birth of Islam in the 7th Century, Christians were almost annihilated across all the regions controlled by the Umayyad caliphate and succeeding caliphates until the 19th Century. There is also Soviet Atheism; the Purge of St Petersburg and sovietism let to the deaths of several million Christians killed for longstanding unity with the Orthodox Church.

Jarjar wasn't talking about who has gone to war with Christians, he was talking about "who has wanted to put Christians down". Unfortunately, Christianity has always been just as much a political institution as it has been a religious one. So one has to ask, were the actions of Islam and Communism based on religious ideals or political motivations?

Also, the Crusades were retaliation to the Islamic(Sassanid) invasion of main land Byzantium. You saying the Crusades are Christian a Christian action of aggression is like saying WWII was a British act of aggression; after all, it was France and Britain who declared war on Germany.

If the Crusade was simply about an invasion in Byzantium why did they wind up marching all the way to Jerusalem? And what about the other 8 crusaders? The only goal that the church ever had was to capture and keep the Holy Land - the invasion was just an excuse.

I'll even go on to say that Islam has a more violent history than Christianity. This of course would be a debate challenge.

Sure, as long as you allow me to include every act of violence that's ever been done by anyone who has considered themselves to belong to a Christian faith. (Jim Jones, David Koresh, George III, Napoleon, Hitler etc etc....)


Christianity did not rise to power through a revolution but by the conversion of Emperor Constantine who set about the job of sanitizing the religion of any "heretical" influences that might work against his position as Emperor. Christianity was spread throughout the empire as the official church of Rome - meaning, you convert or suffer the consequences.
Correct.

The message attributed to Jesus was not revolutionary. In fact, it wasn't even original. Krishna, Mithra, and Apollonius of Tyana (to name a few) all taught the same message (and performed the same miracles, for the most part) Jesus was just more useful as a symbol for Rome.


Who is Tao, and where is his influence in todays world? Some far off third world country or what?

Oh, right. China, Japan and India are far off, third world countries. You do realize you'll probably be working for them one day.
Toaism never left China.

Really? Who's buying all the books on Taoism that are written in English? Either way, Who says Taoism can't be an influence unless it leaves China? It influenced China, right? China doesn't count for anything?


As for your reference to no evidence for Jesus being alive, woow i have not heard that in a very long time, even the very liberal history channel gives credit to his existence, you need to do some better research my friend.

Really. Then you should have no problem providing me with historical evidence that Jesus existed. And I'm talking historical evidence of Jesus. Not Biblical junk that was written dozens of years after the fact by biased zealots, not accounts made about their being Christians in Rome (just because their were Christians doesn't mean there was a Jesus) , not forged documents like the Flavius Josephus books, not theoretically possible grave sights that might have contained is parents remains; I'm talking about actual evidence of an actual Jesus that can be verified as not only pertaining to a person called Jesus but the actual Jesus who supposedly taught the messages and performed the miracles that we attribute to him today.
These accounts by zealots depict a person. A zealot is one who serves and support at an extreme degree. Following that notion, it would be fair to assume that a man did most likely exist but, like you said, his story was exaggerated by zealots.

Did Mithra exist? Or Herculies? Or Dionysus? Or Baal? Or Horus? Zealots believe in a lot of things that aren't true - that's what makes them zealots.

Oh and by the way, there are bunches and bunches of Christians running around today who would consider themselves to be Liberals. And I'll bet a whole lot of them work for the History Channel.
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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1/1/2011 3:42:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 11:46:28 PM, tigg13 wrote:
At 12/30/2010 9:40:23 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Was or was not Jesus of Nazareth the most influential person in history and why or why not?

Well, first off, for Jesus to have been the most influential person in history, he would have had to have been an actual person who actually did all of the things he has been said to have done. And there isn't a whole lot of historical evidence to support that he was.

Second most of the things that have attributed to Jesus over last 2000 years should really be awarded to those who believed in him. Consider, for example, the crusades and the inquisitions and the witch burnings - were these things the result of Jesus' influence.

And what about Siddhartha and Lao Tzu? Both predated Jesus by a couple of hundred years. And both brought messages that transformed whole nations and affected the lives of billions of people.

I challenge you to a debate on any of these topics except for the one I underlined ; I am willing to debate that Jesus produced greater teachings than Lao Tzu or anyone else.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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1/1/2011 5:02:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yes, finally some reasoning from Zetsubou and Vardas0antras. Thank you
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
Rayray
Posts: 2
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1/12/2011 9:32:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 9:40:23 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Was or was not Jesus of Nazareth the most influential person in history and why or why not?

Jesus was one of the most influential people in history. Why? well if you look at ancient history and compare it with bible prophecy you will see that it all worked out just the way God said it would (I will give exact examples if you would like)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/12/2011 9:48:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 9:40:23 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Was or was not Jesus of Nazareth the most influential person in history and why or why not?:

Assuming he was an actual person in human history, and assuming that the stories attributed to him are real, yes, he's easily the most influential person in history.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/12/2011 10:36:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Sure, Jesus had a huge influence on history.

Quite remarkable, really.

*sips coffee*

Now why do the atheists here think that it is a big deal? Even if you think that Jesus never existed, he has had more influence in his non-existence you will ever have. butt hurt some more about it.

Now as for him being the most influential figure in history.. Jesus has a pretty good case.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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1/12/2011 12:29:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 9:40:23 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Was or was not Jesus of Nazareth the most influential person in history and why or why not?

Nope. Gotta go with Abraham here. If any of them were even real, then none would have had a place in history without Abraham.