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Bible claims about a flat earth

Chloe8
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8/10/2016 12:37:26 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
If your sole source of information was the bible you would assume the earth is flat. The question for Christians is why does Yawheh want to trick humans into thinking the earth is flat when actually it's round?

Psalm 104:5

He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.

Yawheh sets earth in a fixed position according to the bible. We know for a fact this is false. The earth orbits the sun at a rapid speed and is not a flat surface in a Hebrew astrology model.

Matthew 4:8

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

Assuming Everest is the mountain in question it's pretty common knowledge you cannot look down on people in the Americas. Obviously the author of Matthew thought this was possible on a flat earth.

Daniel 4:10-11

The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

Obviously it is impossible to see any object no matter how tall in the UK when you are in Australia. However the author of Daniel assumed a flat earth so saw no reason why this would not sound credible thousands of years later when he made up this story or copied an existing myth.

1 Samuel 2:8

He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

The author of Samuel thought the earth was secured by pillars matching Hebrew astrology models of the time.

Psalm 75:3

When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars. Selah

Again pillars holding earth in place.

Psalm 65:5

By awesome deeds you answer us with righteousness, O God of our salvation, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas;

The author of Psalm assumed there was an end to the earths landmass. He didn't know it was possible to circumnavigate earth. He could have gone round in circles 10 billion times and he would still not find an end.

1 Chronicles 16:30

Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

Again a flat earth secured in place, not a round earth traveling at thousands of miles an hour round a star.

Genesis 1:6

And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

How is this in anyway compatible with a round earth? Is Yawheh intentionally trying to fool people?

Matthew 24:29

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

The author of Matthew thought stars were small insignificant objects not supermassive objects. Where are all these huge objects going to go? Where are they going to fall?

Matthew thought they were going to hit earth but such an event would completely destroy earth due to the imense mass of trillions of stars impacting one small planet.

Psalm 19:4

Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,

The author of Psalm assumed earth had an end. Good luck to anyone trying to find one.

Revelation 6:13-16

And the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,

Imagine huge stars billions of times the size of earth simultaneously colliding with it. Do you think it would really be possible for a fig tree to shed fruit when the immense gravity in such a situation pulled earth and everything on it into the hypothetical immense mass of every star in the observable universe?

How could you hide in a cave when subjected to gravity of over a million g?

Obviously the author of revelation thought stars were small insignificant objects. He didn't realize how big they are and how any sort of impact between earth and a star would result in instant extinction of all life on earth.

Christians often ridicule me for claiming the bible teaches people the earth is flat.

My question for these many Christians is, have you actually read the bible?
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/10/2016 6:45:33 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 12:37:26 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If your sole source of information was the bible you would assume the earth is flat. The question for Christians is why does Yawheh want to trick humans into thinking the earth is flat when actually it's round?

Psalm 104:5

He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.

Yawheh sets earth in a fixed position according to the bible. We know for a fact this is false. The earth orbits the sun at a rapid speed and is not a flat surface in a Hebrew astrology model.

Here there is no suggestion the earth is flat. This is an entirely different suggestion you are making here. Does the earth ever leave the solar system or something? Do the order of planets ever change? No. The earth is in the same place is has been.

Matthew 4:8

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

Where is the flat earth here? This is Satan using deception as he is constantly referred to as the deceiver. He probably showed him kingdoms that were not even real or presented them in some form or another. You miss the point of the verse which is followed up with
9 "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."

10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."[e]"

Assuming Everest is the mountain in question it's pretty common knowledge you cannot look down on people in the Americas. Obviously the author of Matthew thought this was possible on a flat earth.
Even on a flat earth it wouldn't be possible from the perspective you want it to be from. So again this one has nothing to do with that.

Daniel 4:10-11

The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

Obviously it is impossible to see any object no matter how tall in the UK when you are in Australia. However the author of Daniel assumed a flat earth so saw no reason why this would not sound credible thousands of years later when he made up this story or copied an existing myth.
Once again this has nothing to do with a flat earth. The narrative here is Neb telling his dream to Daniel. He is speaking of what he saw. Daniels reply to what the dream means is this:
20 The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, with its top touching the sky, visible to the whole earth,
Where is the reference to a flat earth? Especially in a figurative dream?

1 Samuel 2:8

He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

The author of Samuel thought the earth was secured by pillars matching Hebrew astrology models of the time.

No. The pillars referred to are the pillars of the earth which if you don't know what they are or learned them in school they are the inner core, outer core, mantel, asthenosphere, lithosphere. In that order from inner to outer. Funny the bible should somehow know about the inner workings of the earth. Makes one think it might be...divinely inspired! dun dun duhhhhh

Psalm 75:3

When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars. Selah

Again pillars holding earth in place.

Yes, the inner workings of the earths core do an excellent job. Its pillars even generate a magnetic field.

Psalm 65:5

By awesome deeds you answer us with righteousness, O God of our salvation, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas;

The author of Psalm assumed there was an end to the earths landmass. He didn't know it was possible to circumnavigate earth. He could have gone round in circles 10 billion times and he would still not find an end.

From any individuals perspective on this earth there are ends. We use north, south, east and west. There are today countries referred to as western countries and eastern countries. But wait, modern man must think the earth is flat!

1 Chronicles 16:30

Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

Again a flat earth secured in place, not a round earth traveling at thousands of miles an hour round a star.

Once again, it never has. Same place in the solar system.

Genesis 1:6

And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

How is this in anyway compatible with a round earth? Is Yawheh intentionally trying to fool people?

Can you explain how its not consistent?

Matthew 24:29

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

The author of Matthew thought stars were small insignificant objects not supermassive objects. Where are all these huge objects going to go? Where are they going to fall?

Matthew thought they were going to hit earth but such an event would completely destroy earth due to the imense mass of trillions of stars impacting one small planet.

Before I get into that, which part are you saying has a flat earth reference?
Psalm 19:4

Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,

The author of Psalm assumed earth had an end. Good luck to anyone trying to find one.

once again, check out a compass sometime.
Revelation 6:13-16

And the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,

Imagine huge stars billions of times the size of earth simultaneously colliding with it. Do you think it would really be possible for a fig tree to shed fruit when the immense gravity in such a situation pulled earth and everything on it into the hypothetical immense mass of every star in the observable universe?

How could you hide in a cave when subjected to gravity of over a million g?

Obviously the author of revelation thought stars were small insignificant objects. He didn't realize how big they are and how any sort of impact between earth and a star would result in instant extinction of all life on earth.

Where is the flat earth here? We can discuss the other elements once you admit its not taught...

Christians often ridicule me for claiming the bible teaches people the earth is flat.

My question for these many Christians is, have you actually read the bible?

My question for critics is the same. Better yet have you looked at an interlinear?
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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8/10/2016 1:35:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 6:45:33 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/10/2016 12:37:26 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If your sole source of information was the bible you would assume the earth is flat. The question for Christians is why does Yawheh want to trick humans into thinking the earth is flat when actually it's round?

Psalm 104:5

He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.

Yawheh sets earth in a fixed position according to the bible. We know for a fact this is false. The earth orbits the sun at a rapid speed and is not a flat surface in a Hebrew astrology model.

Here there is no suggestion the earth is flat. This is an entirely different suggestion you are making here. Does the earth ever leave the solar system or something? Do the order of planets ever change? No. The earth is in the same place is has been.

Matthew 4:8

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

Where is the flat earth here? This is Satan using deception as he is constantly referred to as the deceiver. He probably showed him kingdoms that were not even real or presented them in some form or another. You miss the point of the verse which is followed up with
9 "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."

10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."[e]"

Assuming Everest is the mountain in question it's pretty common knowledge you cannot look down on people in the Americas. Obviously the author of Matthew thought this was possible on a flat earth.
Even on a flat earth it wouldn't be possible from the perspective you want it to be from. So again this one has nothing to do with that.

Daniel 4:10-11

The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

Obviously it is impossible to see any object no matter how tall in the UK when you are in Australia. However the author of Daniel assumed a flat earth so saw no reason why this would not sound credible thousands of years later when he made up this story or copied an existing myth.
Once again this has nothing to do with a flat earth. The narrative here is Neb telling his dream to Daniel. He is speaking of what he saw. Daniels reply to what the dream means is this:
20 The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, with its top touching the sky, visible to the whole earth,
Where is the reference to a flat earth? Especially in a figurative dream?

1 Samuel 2:8

He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

The author of Samuel thought the earth was secured by pillars matching Hebrew astrology models of the time.

No. The pillars referred to are the pillars of the earth which if you don't know what they are or learned them in school they are the inner core, outer core, mantel, asthenosphere, lithosphere. In that order from inner to outer. Funny the bible should somehow know about the inner workings of the earth. Makes one think it might be...divinely inspired! dun dun duhhhhh

Psalm 75:3

When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars. Selah

Again pillars holding earth in place.

Yes, the inner workings of the earths core do an excellent job. Its pillars even generate a magnetic field.

Psalm 65:5

By awesome deeds you answer us with righteousness, O God of our salvation, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas;

The author of Psalm assumed there was an end to the earths landmass. He didn't know it was possible to circumnavigate earth. He could have gone round in circles 10 billion times and he would still not find an end.

From any individuals perspective on this earth there are ends. We use north, south, east and west. There are today countries referred to as western countries and eastern countries. But wait, modern man must think the earth is flat!

1 Chronicles 16:30

Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

Again a flat earth secured in place, not a round earth traveling at thousands of miles an hour round a star.

Once again, it never has. Same place in the solar system.

Genesis 1:6

And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

How is this in anyway compatible with a round earth? Is Yawheh intentionally trying to fool people?

Can you explain how its not consistent?

Matthew 24:29

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

The author of Matthew thought stars were small insignificant objects not supermassive objects. Where are all these huge objects going to go? Where are they going to fall?

Matthew thought they were going to hit earth but such an event would completely destroy earth due to the imense mass of trillions of stars impacting one small planet.

Before I get into that, which part are you saying has a flat earth reference?
Psalm 19:4

Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,

The author of Psalm assumed earth had an end. Good luck to anyone trying to find one.

once again, check out a compass sometime.
Revelation 6:13-16

And the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,

Imagine huge stars billions of times the size of earth simultaneously colliding with it. Do you think it would really be possible for a fig tree to shed fruit when the immense gravity in such a situation pulled earth and everything on it into the hypothetical immense mass of every star in the observable universe?

How could you hide in a cave when subjected to gravity of over a million g?

Obviously the author of revelation thought stars were small insignificant objects. He didn't realize how big they are and how any sort of impact between earth and a star would result in instant extinction of all life on earth.

Where is the flat earth here? We can discuss the other elements once you admit its not taught...

Christians often ridicule me for claiming the bible teaches people the earth is flat.

My question for these many Christians is, have you actually read the bible?

My question for critics is the same. Better yet have you looked at an interlinear?

Er, Bigotry? You re aware that clown8 is a troll right?
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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8/10/2016 8:09:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 12:37:26 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If your sole source of information was the bible you would assume the earth is flat. The question for Christians is why does Yawheh want to trick humans into thinking the earth is flat when actually it's round?

Psalm 104:5

He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.

Yawheh sets earth in a fixed position according to the bible. We know for a fact this is false. The earth orbits the sun at a rapid speed and is not a flat surface in a Hebrew astrology model.

Earth means in the Bible dry land, not the planet earth:

God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10

And one basis of the Bible, there was only one continent in the beginning. At that time, there was probably not yet Mount Everest. And the original continent could have been relatively flat and on top of "pillars" that made it possible to be on top of water as the Bible tells (which then later made the great flood possible, when the continent collapsed).

And unfortunately there is no means to really know surely does planet earth go around the sun or moves otherwise. All real observations give the possibility that everything else moves.

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

Assuming Everest is the mountain in question it's pretty common knowledge you cannot look down on people in the Americas. Obviously the author of Matthew thought this was possible on a flat earth.

Even if world would be flat, it is probable that you don"t see all the treasures from the mountain top. It is possible that the things were seen like in vision.

Daniel 4:10-11

The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

Obviously it is impossible to see any object no matter how tall in the UK when you are in Australia. However the author of Daniel assumed a flat earth so saw no reason why this would not sound credible thousands of years later when he made up this story or copied an existing myth.

Don"t you understand what the word vision means? And again, when there was only one continent (area of dry land was called earth as said before), it could be possible to see tree on middle of it from all the "corners".

The author of Matthew thought stars were small insignificant objects not supermassive objects. Where are all these huge objects going to go? Where are they going to fall?

Why do you believe they are massive? Just because some "scientist" says so?

My question for these many Christians is, have you actually read the bible?

I have, but you obviously have not read or understood it when you say earth means planet earth, all though Bible says earth meant dry land.
xXKorvexiusXx
Posts: 56
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8/11/2016 4:41:07 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
And it seems that you are ridiculed for good reason. When someone takes obviously non-literal statements, like those verses from Psalms, or interprets verses however he wishes, like the verse of Satan showing Jesus all the kingdoms and that tree that grew to Heaven, they can clearly get some pretty ridiculous things.

Of course, these ridiculous things are always complete and utter misrepresentations of the text, and exactly the reason you are ridiculed.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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8/11/2016 2:16:14 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 4:41:07 AM, xXKorvexiusXx wrote:
And it seems that you are ridiculed for good reason. When someone takes obviously non-literal statements, like those verses from Psalms, or interprets verses however he wishes, like the verse of Satan showing Jesus all the kingdoms and that tree that grew to Heaven, they can clearly get some pretty ridiculous things.

Sort of like being surrounded by dogs and having your hands and feet pierced, from the same book. What does one take literally, and what does one take metaphorically? Well... it depends on the point you want to make, I suppose.

Of course, these ridiculous things are always complete and utter misrepresentations of the text, and exactly the reason you are ridiculed.

Subjectively interpreted tend to have this problem.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
xXKorvexiusXx
Posts: 56
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8/11/2016 4:37:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:16:14 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/11/2016 4:41:07 AM, xXKorvexiusXx wrote:
And it seems that you are ridiculed for good reason. When someone takes obviously non-literal statements, like those verses from Psalms, or interprets verses however he wishes, like the verse of Satan showing Jesus all the kingdoms and that tree that grew to Heaven, they can clearly get some pretty ridiculous things.

Sort of like being surrounded by dogs and having your hands and feet pierced, from the same book. What does one take literally, and what does one take metaphorically? Well... it depends on the point you want to make, I suppose.

There is obviously no metaphorical indication of that, whatsoever, except for the "dogs" part, however of course, the only reason we can strongly identify that as being metaphoric, like all the verses you quoted, is because of the context of Psalms 22:16. If you look at the entire chapter, Psalms 22, it also says "bulls surround me", and then references them as "lions". So, is this a contradiction? Obviously not, "lions mauling me", "bulls surround me", "dogs surround me" is a more than obvious metaphorical reference to the immoral people putting Jesus to death. Clearly, context solves this one beyond doubt -- however the context of your passages have absolutely no hope putting a literal light on your quotations. Once again, you are rightly ridiculed by Christians.

Of course, these ridiculous things are always complete and utter misrepresentations of the text, and exactly the reason you are ridiculed.

Subjectively interpreted tend to have this problem.

This statement is not grammatically coherent, and thus I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. You might want to download 'Grammarly', pal.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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8/11/2016 6:54:05 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 4:37:06 PM, xXKorvexiusXx wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:16:14 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/11/2016 4:41:07 AM, xXKorvexiusXx wrote:
And it seems that you are ridiculed for good reason. When someone takes obviously non-literal statements, like those verses from Psalms, or interprets verses however he wishes, like the verse of Satan showing Jesus all the kingdoms and that tree that grew to Heaven, they can clearly get some pretty ridiculous things.

Sort of like being surrounded by dogs and having your hands and feet pierced, from the same book. What does one take literally, and what does one take metaphorically? Well... it depends on the point you want to make, I suppose.

There is obviously no metaphorical indication of that, whatsoever, except for the "dogs" part, however of course,

There obviously isn't, except for the part that is. -applause- I should take you seriously why, again?

the only reason we can strongly identify that as being metaphoric, like all the verses you quoted, is because of the context of Psalms 22:16. If you look at the entire chapter, Psalms 22, it also says "bulls surround me", and then references them as "lions". So, is this a contradiction? Obviously not, "lions mauling me", "bulls surround me", "dogs surround me" is a more than obvious metaphorical reference to the immoral people putting Jesus to death. Clearly, context solves this one beyond doubt -- however the context of your passages have absolutely no hope putting a literal light on your quotations. Once again, you are rightly ridiculed by Christians.

I guess saying "Immoral people" surround me would have been to easy for prophecy.


Of course, these ridiculous things are always complete and utter misrepresentations of the text, and exactly the reason you are ridiculed.

Subjectively interpreted tend to have this problem.

This statement is not grammatically coherent, and thus I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. You might want to download 'Grammarly', pal.

"Subjectively interpreted texts tend to have this problem".

Better?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
xXKorvexiusXx
Posts: 56
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8/12/2016 2:18:54 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
And it seems that you are ridiculed for good reason. When someone takes obviously non-literal statements, like those verses from Psalms, or interprets verses however he wishes, like the verse of Satan showing Jesus all the kingdoms and that tree that grew to Heaven, they can clearly get some pretty ridiculous things.

Sort of like being surrounded by dogs and having your hands and feet pierced, from the same book. What does one take literally, and what does one take metaphorically? Well... it depends on the point you want to make, I suppose.

There is obviously no metaphorical indication of that, whatsoever, except for the "dogs" part, however of course,


There obviously isn't, except for the part that is. -applause- I should take you seriously why, again?

Correct, you should, as I taught you a fundamental lesson that you seem to not be aware of. Looking at the context can actually tell you if something is literal or metaphorical. You do not know this, and thus you magically interpret metaphors as literalisms (supposed flat earth verses) and literally as metaphors ("they pierced my hands and feet").

the only reason we can strongly identify that as being metaphoric, like all the verses you quoted, is because of the context of Psalms 22:16. If you look at the entire chapter, Psalms 22, it also says "bulls surround me", and then references them as "lions". So, is this a contradiction? Obviously not, "lions mauling me", "bulls surround me", "dogs surround me" is a more than obvious metaphorical reference to the immoral people putting Jesus to death. Clearly, context solves this one beyond doubt -- however the context of your passages have absolutely no hope putting a literal light on your quotations. Once again, you are rightly ridiculed by Christians.


I guess saying "Immoral people" surround me would have been to easy for prophecy.

That isn't the prophecy, buddy, I was just explaining the phrase "dogs surround me" as you clearly thought it literally meant "dogs surround me". The prophecy part is where it predicted Jesus' Crucifixion later in the verse.

This statement is not grammatically coherent, and thus I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. You might want to download 'Grammarly', pal.

"Subjectively interpreted texts tend to have this problem".


Better?

Yes.
Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/12/2016 3:45:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 12:37:26 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
If your sole source of information was the bible you would assume the earth is flat. The question for Christians is why does Yawheh want to trick humans into thinking the earth is flat when actually it's round?

Psalm 104:5

He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.

Yawheh sets earth in a fixed position according to the bible. We know for a fact this is false. The earth orbits the sun at a rapid speed and is not a flat surface in a Hebrew astrology model.

Matthew 4:8

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

Assuming Everest is the mountain in question it's pretty common knowledge you cannot look down on people in the Americas. Obviously the author of Matthew thought this was possible on a flat earth.

Daniel 4:10-11

The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

Obviously it is impossible to see any object no matter how tall in the UK when you are in Australia. However the author of Daniel assumed a flat earth so saw no reason why this would not sound credible thousands of years later when he made up this story or copied an existing myth.

1 Samuel 2:8

He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

The author of Samuel thought the earth was secured by pillars matching Hebrew astrology models of the time.

Psalm 75:3

When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars. Selah

Again pillars holding earth in place.

Psalm 65:5

By awesome deeds you answer us with righteousness, O God of our salvation, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas;

The author of Psalm assumed there was an end to the earths landmass. He didn't know it was possible to circumnavigate earth. He could have gone round in circles 10 billion times and he would still not find an end.

1 Chronicles 16:30

Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

Again a flat earth secured in place, not a round earth traveling at thousands of miles an hour round a star.

Genesis 1:6

And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

How is this in anyway compatible with a round earth? Is Yawheh intentionally trying to fool people?

Matthew 24:29

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

The author of Matthew thought stars were small insignificant objects not supermassive objects. Where are all these huge objects going to go? Where are they going to fall?

Matthew thought they were going to hit earth but such an event would completely destroy earth due to the imense mass of trillions of stars impacting one small planet.

Psalm 19:4

Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,

The author of Psalm assumed earth had an end. Good luck to anyone trying to find one.

Revelation 6:13-16

And the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,

Imagine huge stars billions of times the size of earth simultaneously colliding with it. Do you think it would really be possible for a fig tree to shed fruit when the immense gravity in such a situation pulled earth and everything on it into the hypothetical immense mass of every star in the observable universe?

How could you hide in a cave when subjected to gravity of over a million g?

Obviously the author of revelation thought stars were small insignificant objects. He didn't realize how big they are and how any sort of impact between earth and a star would result in instant extinction of all life on earth.

Christians often ridicule me for claiming the bible teaches people the earth is flat.

My question for these many Christians is, have you actually read the bible?

OK
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
Throwback
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8/12/2016 4:56:20 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:55:43 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/12/2016 3:45:13 AM, Throwback wrote:

OK

Fantastic contribution to the discussion. OK.

OK
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
FaustianJustice
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8/12/2016 9:39:04 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 2:18:54 AM, xXKorvexiusXx wrote:
And it seems that you are ridiculed for good reason. When someone takes obviously non-literal statements, like those verses from Psalms, or interprets verses however he wishes, like the verse of Satan showing Jesus all the kingdoms and that tree that grew to Heaven, they can clearly get some pretty ridiculous things.

Sort of like being surrounded by dogs and having your hands and feet pierced, from the same book. What does one take literally, and what does one take metaphorically? Well... it depends on the point you want to make, I suppose.

There is obviously no metaphorical indication of that, whatsoever, except for the "dogs" part, however of course,


There obviously isn't, except for the part that is. -applause- I should take you seriously why, again?

Correct, you should, as I taught you a fundamental lesson that you seem to not be aware of. Looking at the context can actually tell you if something is literal or metaphorical. You do not know this, and thus you magically interpret metaphors as literalisms (supposed flat earth verses) and literally as metaphors ("they pierced my hands and feet").

Let me tell you what the lesson is: its not context that brings literalism. Its the result. If Jesus was sacrificed by being thrown into a pit of wild animals that bit his extremities, you would be singing a different tune. It was the actual events that are giving you context to fit the prophecy, not the other way around.

the only reason we can strongly identify that as being metaphoric, like all the verses you quoted, is because of the context of Psalms 22:16. If you look at the entire chapter, Psalms 22, it also says "bulls surround me", and then references them as "lions". So, is this a contradiction? Obviously not, "lions mauling me", "bulls surround me", "dogs surround me" is a more than obvious metaphorical reference to the immoral people putting Jesus to death. Clearly, context solves this one beyond doubt -- however the context of your passages have absolutely no hope putting a literal light on your quotations. Once again, you are rightly ridiculed by Christians.


I guess saying "Immoral people" surround me would have been to easy for prophecy.

That isn't the prophecy, buddy,

No, that isn't the prophecy, but it would go miles to lending credibility to said 'prophecy'.

I was just explaining the phrase "dogs surround me" as you clearly thought it literally meant "dogs surround me". The prophecy part is where it predicted Jesus' Crucifixion later in the verse.

Of course. The prophecy means only where you need it to, and not where you don't. But if at any time during Jesus' time he was surrounded by some mangy canines, I have the feeling you would be changing your tune. You need reality to denote where the prophecy fits, not the other way around.

This statement is not grammatically coherent, and thus I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. You might want to download 'Grammarly', pal.

"Subjectively interpreted texts tend to have this problem".


Better?

Yes.
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xXKorvexiusXx
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8/12/2016 10:00:05 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
There obviously isn't, except for the part that is. -applause- I should take you seriously why, again?

Correct, you should, as I taught you a fundamental lesson that you seem to not be aware of. Looking at the context can actually tell you if something is literal or metaphorical. You do not know this, and thus you magically interpret metaphors as literalisms (supposed flat earth verses) and literally as metaphors ("they pierced my hands and feet").


Let me tell you what the lesson is: its not context that brings literalism. Its the result. If Jesus was sacrificed by being thrown into a pit of wild animals that bit his extremities, you would be singing a different tune. It was the actual events that are giving you context to fit the prophecy, not the other way around.

Indeed, if Jesus was sacrificed that way, I would definitely be singing a different tune. Well, that is obviously not what the Psalms 22:16 prophecy indicates, nor is it what our historical record indicates.



I guess saying "Immoral people" surround me would have been to easy for prophecy.

That isn't the prophecy, buddy,

No, that isn't the prophecy, but it would go miles to lending credibility to said 'prophecy'.

The prophecy would not have any less or any more credibility if it said "immoral". Why? Because anyone who has chronologically read Psalms 22, rather than pinpointing a single verse, is more than aware that it means 'immoral people', or at least the people that put Jesus to death.
FaustianJustice
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8/12/2016 10:22:13 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 10:00:05 PM, xXKorvexiusXx wrote:
There obviously isn't, except for the part that is. -applause- I should take you seriously why, again?

Correct, you should, as I taught you a fundamental lesson that you seem to not be aware of. Looking at the context can actually tell you if something is literal or metaphorical. You do not know this, and thus you magically interpret metaphors as literalisms (supposed flat earth verses) and literally as metaphors ("they pierced my hands and feet").


Let me tell you what the lesson is: its not context that brings literalism. Its the result. If Jesus was sacrificed by being thrown into a pit of wild animals that bit his extremities, you would be singing a different tune. It was the actual events that are giving you context to fit the prophecy, not the other way around.

Indeed, if Jesus was sacrificed that way, I would definitely be singing a different tune. Well, that is obviously not what the Psalms 22:16 prophecy indicates, nor is it what our historical record indicates.

That makes for poor prophecy, bro. If it takes the result rather than the prophecy to realize its been fulfilled, you are being bamboozled. "I'll know it when I see it" is a rather large cop out.



I guess saying "Immoral people" surround me would have been to easy for prophecy.

That isn't the prophecy, buddy,

No, that isn't the prophecy, but it would go miles to lending credibility to said 'prophecy'.

The prophecy would not have any less or any more credibility if it said "immoral".

If your fortune cookie said "You will win the lotto", and you win 5 bucks on a quick pick, was that prophecy? Now, if your fortune cookie told you buy 3 play threes, and a power ball, and play your birthday next Wednesday...

which do you believe to be prophetic vs casually worded?
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xXKorvexiusXx
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8/15/2016 3:31:04 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Let me tell you what the lesson is: its not context that brings literalism. Its the result. If Jesus was sacrificed by being thrown into a pit of wild animals that bit his extremities, you would be singing a different tune. It was the actual events that are giving you context to fit the prophecy, not the other way around.

Indeed, if Jesus was sacrificed that way, I would definitely be singing a different tune. Well, that is obviously not what the Psalms 22:16 prophecy indicates, nor is it what our historical record indicates.

That makes for poor prophecy, bro. If it takes the result rather than the prophecy to realize its been fulfilled, you are being bamboozled. "I'll know it when I see it" is a rather large cop out.

What on Earth are you talking about? If Jesus was killed by dogs, the prophecy would have utterly failed. Your claims are extremely ambiguous.



The prophecy would not have any less or any more credibility if it said "immoral".

If your fortune cookie said "You will win the lotto", and you win 5 bucks on a quick pick, was that prophecy? Now, if your fortune cookie told you buy 3 play threes, and a power ball, and play your birthday next Wednesday...

Your claims remain spurious at best. No one, reading this prophecy, was waiting for a group of immoral people to surround someone, indeed the only prophecy claim that ANYONE has ever pointed to Psalms 22:16 was involving the "they pierced my hands and feet". It seems to me as if you're literally addressing the part of the verse that NO ONE is making a claim on, LOL. Whether it said dogs or immoral people, everyone reading through Psams already were aware of two things;

1. It meant immoral people
2. It doesn't matter, because what does matter is the crucifixion part

which do you believe to be prophetic vs casually worded?

"they pierced my hands and feet" is the FURTHEST from casually worded, LOL.
FaustianJustice
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8/15/2016 3:43:56 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:31:04 AM, xXKorvexiusXx wrote:
Let me tell you what the lesson is: its not context that brings literalism. Its the result. If Jesus was sacrificed by being thrown into a pit of wild animals that bit his extremities, you would be singing a different tune. It was the actual events that are giving you context to fit the prophecy, not the other way around.

Indeed, if Jesus was sacrificed that way, I would definitely be singing a different tune. Well, that is obviously not what the Psalms 22:16 prophecy indicates, nor is it what our historical record indicates.

That makes for poor prophecy, bro. If it takes the result rather than the prophecy to realize its been fulfilled, you are being bamboozled. "I'll know it when I see it" is a rather large cop out.

What on Earth are you talking about? If Jesus was killed by dogs, the prophecy would have utterly failed. Your claims are extremely ambiguous.

Says you. If dogs literally surrounded him, bit at various extremities, etc, what argument could I (or you) possibly have for something contrary?



The prophecy would not have any less or any more credibility if it said "immoral".

If your fortune cookie said "You will win the lotto", and you win 5 bucks on a quick pick, was that prophecy? Now, if your fortune cookie told you buy 3 play threes, and a power ball, and play your birthday next Wednesday...

Your claims remain spurious at best. No one, reading this prophecy, was waiting for a group of immoral people to surround someone,

Why wouldn't they?

indeed the only prophecy claim that ANYONE has ever pointed to Psalms 22:16 was involving the "they pierced my hands and feet". It seems to me as if you're literally addressing the part of the verse that NO ONE is making a claim on, LOL. Whether it said dogs or immoral people, everyone reading through Psams already were aware of two things;

So that means either of the clowns hung next to JC fit the bill as well, you twit! Geezum, brah, figure stuff out before you spout.

1. It meant immoral people
2. It doesn't matter, because what does matter is the crucifixion part

which do you believe to be prophetic vs casually worded?

"they pierced my hands and feet" is the FURTHEST from casually worded, LOL.

Any barefooted individual in a forest would tell you differently.
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xXKorvexiusXx
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8/15/2016 5:34:09 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
What on Earth are you talking about? If Jesus was killed by dogs, the prophecy would have utterly failed. Your claims are extremely ambiguous.

Says you. If dogs literally surrounded him, bit at various extremities, etc, what argument could I (or you) possibly have for something contrary?

LOL. The more then obvious point is the fact that the prophecy was fulfilled. It seems rather than even trying to contest this, you are presenting extremely spurious excuses to brush it off. "What if dogs really surrounded him", did the Romans even have dogs? LOL!


Your claims remain spurious at best. No one, reading this prophecy, was waiting for a group of immoral people to surround someone,

Why wouldn't they?

Because that's the smallest part of the prophecy to ever consider. "Dogs surround me", I've read through this passage almost countless times and that has never even taken priority of my thought process on this. Common sense. If you go to any Christian website on fulfilled prophecy involving this passage, you'll NEVER SEE "wow, bible predicted Jesus would be surrounded by immoral people", rather you will ALWAYS SEE "jesus predicted to be crucified".

indeed the only prophecy claim that ANYONE has ever pointed to Psalms 22:16 was involving the "they pierced my hands and feet". It seems to me as if you're literally addressing the part of the verse that NO ONE is making a claim on, LOL. Whether it said dogs or immoral people, everyone reading through Psams already were aware of two things;


So that means either of the clowns hung next to JC fit the bill as well, you twit! Geezum, brah, figure stuff out before you spout.

Do you think there was magically a single prophecy for the Messiah to fulfill? If I'm not mistaken, there are well over 300. The main point I use of posting Psalms 22:16 was that it was written even before the process of crucifixion was invented.

"they pierced my hands and feet" is the FURTHEST from casually worded, LOL.

Any barefooted individual in a forest would tell you differently.

I do not know what to make of this response. Are you a red-neck living in Alabama, by any chance?
FaustianJustice
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8/15/2016 6:06:17 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 5:34:09 AM, xXKorvexiusXx wrote:
What on Earth are you talking about? If Jesus was killed by dogs, the prophecy would have utterly failed. Your claims are extremely ambiguous.

Says you. If dogs literally surrounded him, bit at various extremities, etc, what argument could I (or you) possibly have for something contrary?

LOL. The more then obvious point is the fact that the prophecy was fulfilled

Literally and metaphorically. Win/win. Instead you settle for win/spin it to be win.

. It seems rather than even trying to contest this, you are presenting extremely spurious excuses to brush it off. "What if dogs really surrounded him", did the Romans even have dogs? LOL!

Yes. Lions, dogs, Oxen, bulls, certain variety of ferocious cat, etc.


Your claims remain spurious at best. No one, reading this prophecy, was waiting for a group of immoral people to surround someone,

Why wouldn't they?

Because that's the smallest part of the prophecy to ever consider. "Dogs surround me", I've read through this passage almost countless times and that has never even taken priority of my thought process on this.

Given the historical context of the Bible, why would it? Given your upbringing, why would it? Given those, why would you consider anything other than what you were taught?

Common sense. If you go to any Christian website on fulfilled prophecy involving this passage, you'll NEVER SEE "wow, bible predicted Jesus would be surrounded by immoral people", rather you will ALWAYS SEE "jesus predicted to be crucified".

Strangely, no, just that his hands and feet would be pierced. Surrounded by immoral people seems really effing stupid when you consider it was ONE person that sold Jesus out.

indeed the only prophecy claim that ANYONE has ever pointed to Psalms 22:16 was involving the "they pierced my hands and feet". It seems to me as if you're literally addressing the part of the verse that NO ONE is making a claim on, LOL. Whether it said dogs or immoral people, everyone reading through Psams already were aware of two things;


So that means either of the clowns hung next to JC fit the bill as well, you twit! Geezum, brah, figure stuff out before you spout.

Do you think there was magically a single prophecy for the Messiah to fulfill? If I'm not mistaken, there are well over 300. The main point I use of posting Psalms 22:16 was that it was written even before the process of crucifixion was invented.

Which again, is nebulous at its conception as at any given time, crucifixion was never relied upon as the given means.

"they pierced my hands and feet" is the FURTHEST from casually worded, LOL.

Any barefooted individual in a forest would tell you differently.

I do not know what to make of this response. Are you a red-neck living in Alabama, by any chance?

Are you a dirt poor carpenter leaving literally anywhere there is something with a thorn by chance?
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bulproof
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8/15/2016 6:20:04 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 5:34:09 AM, xXKorvexiusXx wrote:
LOL. The more then obvious point is the fact that the prophecy was fulfilled.
Did anybody report him being nailed to the cross?
Show where the prophesy mentions crucifixion.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin