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Assuming God is evil, should we obey God?

Stupidape
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8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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8/11/2016 7:51:58 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:

Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

Your question seems to imply that we should "obey" God if He is deemed by us to be benevolent.

Why? Why do you assume this? What does God being good imply my obedience? I have friends who are good, I feel no need to obey them.
keithprosser
Posts: 1,951
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8/11/2016 9:01:46 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Assuming God is evil requires assuming God exists, which I tend not to do! But if God did exist I would have thougt obeying him would be a good idea whether he was good or bad. Surely disobeying a malevolent God is just dumb because you can't win. You'd have the moral high ground for exactly how long it takes him to smite you with boils or a thunderbolt.

A malevolent person one can fight, and even a malevolent government but not a malevolent God - have you read Pardise Lost?
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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8/11/2016 9:25:32 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

yes we should since He provides the torment place so called hell for disobeying Him. If there were no bad consequence such hell then why on earth would we obey someone or something so called God?
the prisoners certainly should obey the prison guards, otherwise the guards would torture them.
NewLifeChristian
Posts: 1,236
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8/11/2016 5:52:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.
Oh . . . So is this why you say you don't believe in God? Because you think He is evil?
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/11/2016 5:57:34 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

This is what passes for intellectual discussion now. You pose an impossible premise, a premise opposed to itself, and try to pass it off as critical thinking.

Do you guys even still take logic classes to learn sequential and critical thinking skills?
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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8/11/2016 6:06:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

Assuming he is malevolent, I'd say try to ignore him. If you can't obey sincerely, he'd know anyhow, there is no faking it to appease him. Maybe he'd cut some slack for being true to oneself.

The God I believe in - the OG - Original God of Creation, is benevolent in my opinion; the one who is currently reigning is learning through creation and is neither good nor bad, just inexperienced. and trying to get the respect of the OG. The devil is jealous of mankind's ability to exist in the flesh, and is always trying to get us to fail, to show both Gods that humans were a waste of creative energy.

I know the OP didn't ask for this elaboration, but I wanted to share it since it is somewhat related.
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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8/11/2016 6:07:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 9:25:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

yes we should since He provides the torment place so called hell for disobeying Him.

And there it is, folks.
The cutting edge of Islamic moral thought:
"We should obey the Mobster, else He's going to break your legs".

So deep.

If there were no bad consequence such hell then why on earth would we obey someone or something so called God?

Because it would be morally justified?
I know, such a shocking concept.

the prisoners certainly should obey the prison guards, otherwise the guards would torture them.

Again, thanks for eloquently proving my point.
BradWatsonMiami
Posts: 38
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8/11/2016 6:16:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Stupidape,

The definition of 'God' is one... You mean 'god'.

"God is Good", GOD=GOOD.
GOD=7_4, whereas G is the 7th letter, a circle, D is 4. GOD=7_4, 7/4=July 4th or 7 April 30 AD: Good(7__4) Friday(74) when Jesus(74=J10+E5+S19+U21+S19) was nailed on(74) the Cross(74=C3+R18+O15+S19+S19)
Throwback
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8/11/2016 6:22:37 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 6:16:30 PM, BradWatsonMiami wrote:
Stupidape,

The definition of 'God' is one... You mean 'god'.

"God is Good", GOD=GOOD.

I'm still having a little difficulty deciding if you're being sarcastic or if you believe this stuff. Facial expressions for context might be helpful.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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8/11/2016 7:05:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 7:51:58 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:

Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

Your question seems to imply that we should "obey" God if He is deemed by us to be benevolent.

You need to improve your reading and comprehension skills. The word he used was 'malevolent' and a a 'dark 'God.

Why? Why do you assume this? What does God being good imply my obedience? I have friends who are good, I feel no need to obey them.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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8/11/2016 7:46:52 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

It depends on what he commands. Bible God"s commandment is to love, so I don"t think He is evil.
Geogeer
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8/11/2016 7:59:14 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

How could God be malevolent?
riyad70
Posts: 89
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8/11/2016 8:27:02 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

Evil God creates humans capable of doing good ? what for ? to displease him ?

And what can the nature of this fight against him be, or even the possible results of such fight, can we ever when if we will die no matter what and God never dies ?

This can work in polytheistic religions.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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8/11/2016 8:41:51 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 7:59:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

How could God be malevolent?

Creating intellects that have the ability to suffer, and dispensing various 'tests' which they could never pass in order to achieve His promised rewards. A cheese scented maze filled with mice, and no exit.

Laugh riot, if you are an entity that is malevolent.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Geogeer
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8/11/2016 8:56:25 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 8:41:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/11/2016 7:59:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

How could God be malevolent?

Creating intellects that have the ability to suffer,

So suffering is necessarily bad?

and dispensing various 'tests' which they could never pass in order to achieve His promised rewards.

God needs to test us? He isn't omniscient? God is not with us on our journey?

A cheese scented maze filled with mice, and no exit.

Nah God is with you the whole way trying to guide the mice down the right path, just the mice choose to follow their own directions and chase after false scents.

Laugh riot, if you are an entity that is malevolent.

That would be if it were an accurate characterization.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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8/11/2016 10:14:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 8:56:25 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/11/2016 8:41:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/11/2016 7:59:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

How could God be malevolent?

Creating intellects that have the ability to suffer,

So suffering is necessarily bad?

Needlessly? Yes.

and dispensing various 'tests' which they could never pass in order to achieve His promised rewards.

God needs to test us? He isn't omniscient? God is not with us on our journey?

Of course not, but that doesn't mean it won't be justified as such. He could be omniscient, it doesn't really matter for the purpose of this OP, as is whether or not He is with us on 'our' journey, or if we are even on a journey for that matter.

A cheese scented maze filled with mice, and no exit.

Nah God is with you the whole way trying to guide the mice down the right path, just the mice choose to follow their own directions and chase after false scents.

I feel you are deliberately ignoring the purpose of the posts in favor of your preferred image of God, however in reference to your acknowledgement of my suggestion, the maze is a test, and God is omniscient, making one wonder what the ultimate point is. God doesn't need to 'try' to do anything. Omnipotence has its perks, and if ultimately you are giving your mice the ability to choose their own path, but have your own desired end for them, with punishment being the alternative, that might suggest malevolence in its own right.

Laugh riot, if you are an entity that is malevolent.

That would be if it were an accurate characterization.

Which is the point of the OP.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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8/11/2016 10:32:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 10:14:40 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/11/2016 8:56:25 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/11/2016 8:41:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/11/2016 7:59:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

How could God be malevolent?

Creating intellects that have the ability to suffer,

So suffering is necessarily bad?

Needlessly? Yes.

And you can know that any suffering is actually needless?

and dispensing various 'tests' which they could never pass in order to achieve His promised rewards.

God needs to test us? He isn't omniscient? God is not with us on our journey?

Of course not, but that doesn't mean it won't be justified as such. He could be omniscient, it doesn't really matter for the purpose of this OP, as is whether or not He is with us on 'our' journey, or if we are even on a journey for that matter.

The circumstances always matter.

A cheese scented maze filled with mice, and no exit.

Nah God is with you the whole way trying to guide the mice down the right path, just the mice choose to follow their own directions and chase after false scents.

I feel you are deliberately ignoring the purpose of the posts in favor of your preferred image of God, however in reference to your acknowledgement of my suggestion, the maze is a test, and God is omniscient, making one wonder what the ultimate point is. God doesn't need to 'try' to do anything. Omnipotence has its perks, and if ultimately you are giving your mice the ability to choose their own path, but have your own desired end for them, with punishment being the alternative, that might suggest malevolence in its own right.

Actually I felt just the same with your post. Instead of answering the post you gave a mischaracterization of God.

God has created you for love (aka cheese in your example). Love requires freedom (i.e. the maze). If the mice (us) misuse the maze and chase after things other than the cheese, they get that instead.

Laugh riot, if you are an entity that is malevolent.

That would be if it were an accurate characterization.

Which is the point of the OP.

The problem is that the original supposition isn't possible for logical reasons.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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8/11/2016 11:18:00 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

How could God be malevolent?

Creating intellects that have the ability to suffer,

So suffering is necessarily bad?

Needlessly? Yes.

And you can know that any suffering is actually needless?

I believe the entire reason we have conventions against torture are for that exact understanding of circumstance.

and dispensing various 'tests' which they could never pass in order to achieve His promised rewards.

God needs to test us? He isn't omniscient? God is not with us on our journey?

Of course not, but that doesn't mean it won't be justified as such. He could be omniscient, it doesn't really matter for the purpose of this OP, as is whether or not He is with us on 'our' journey, or if we are even on a journey for that matter.

The circumstances always matter.

A cheese scented maze filled with mice, and no exit.

Nah God is with you the whole way trying to guide the mice down the right path, just the mice choose to follow their own directions and chase after false scents.

I feel you are deliberately ignoring the purpose of the posts in favor of your preferred image of God, however in reference to your acknowledgement of my suggestion, the maze is a test, and God is omniscient, making one wonder what the ultimate point is. God doesn't need to 'try' to do anything. Omnipotence has its perks, and if ultimately you are giving your mice the ability to choose their own path, but have your own desired end for them, with punishment being the alternative, that might suggest malevolence in its own right.

Actually I felt just the same with your post. Instead of answering the post you gave a mischaracterization of God.

I fail to see how that is the case, if the OP assumes literally from its title God is malevolent, and how we should be have if He is. "How could He" is a moot point to that.

God has created you for love (aka cheese in your example). Love requires freedom (i.e. the maze). If the mice (us) misuse the maze and chase after things other than the cheese, they get that instead.

I fail to see how that runs contrary to my suggestion regarding malevolence, a maze with no exit, suffering, and desires of the mice.

Laugh riot, if you are an entity that is malevolent.

That would be if it were an accurate characterization.

Which is the point of the OP.

The problem is that the original supposition isn't possible for logical reasons.

Those being?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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8/11/2016 11:27:14 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 11:18:00 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Creating intellects that have the ability to suffer,

So suffering is necessarily bad?

Needlessly? Yes.

And you can know that any suffering is actually needless?

I believe the entire reason we have conventions against torture are for that exact understanding of circumstance.

In a naturalistic sense yes. In a spiritual sense perhaps not. If God's goal for us is beyond natural and in whatever sense permitting suffering helps that individual and those around them to attain that goal, then the suffering is not senseless.

Now since you are not God, it is not within your authority to torture somebody else.

Actually I felt just the same with your post. Instead of answering the post you gave a mischaracterization of God.

I fail to see how that is the case, if the OP assumes literally from its title God is malevolent, and how we should be have if He is. "How could He" is a moot point to that.

It is like saying how assuming a square has 6 sides. I noted that it is an illogical / nonsensical assumption to begin with.

God has created you for love (aka cheese in your example). Love requires freedom (i.e. the maze). If the mice (us) misuse the maze and chase after things other than the cheese, they get that instead.

I fail to see how that runs contrary to my suggestion regarding malevolence, a maze with no exit, suffering, and desires of the mice.

It is not possible for love to exist without the ability to reject that love. In fact it is pretty tough to actually love without suffering for it.

Laugh riot, if you are an entity that is malevolent.

That would be if it were an accurate characterization.

Which is the point of the OP.

The problem is that the original supposition isn't possible for logical reasons.

Those being?

God is not a being, but rather being itself. There is nothing beyond God and thus God must be fully self satisfying. Good is defined as that which is in accordance with God's will. Thus a malevolent God would be acting against his own will - which is impossible.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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8/11/2016 11:54:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 11:27:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/11/2016 11:18:00 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Creating intellects that have the ability to suffer,

So suffering is necessarily bad?

Needlessly? Yes.

And you can know that any suffering is actually needless?

I believe the entire reason we have conventions against torture are for that exact understanding of circumstance.

In a naturalistic sense yes. In a spiritual sense perhaps not. If God's goal for us is beyond natural and in whatever sense permitting suffering helps that individual and those around them to attain that goal, then the suffering is not senseless.

So, I have suggested an unequivocal example of needless suffering, and your rebuttal hinges on a 'perhaps' and an 'if'. Two conditions of unknown veracity. If God's goal for us is beyond what is natural, putting us in a natural world to figure that out seems patently absurd.

Now since you are not God, it is not within your authority to torture somebody else.

It is however, within God's authority to exorcise love... through torture. Double plus good, that.

Actually I felt just the same with your post. Instead of answering the post you gave a mischaracterization of God.

I fail to see how that is the case, if the OP assumes literally from its title God is malevolent, and how we should be have if He is. "How could He" is a moot point to that.

It is like saying how assuming a square has 6 sides. I noted that it is an illogical / nonsensical assumption to begin with.

Indeed, you said that, and my address of this is at the conclusion.

God has created you for love (aka cheese in your example). Love requires freedom (i.e. the maze). If the mice (us) misuse the maze and chase after things other than the cheese, they get that instead.

I fail to see how that runs contrary to my suggestion regarding malevolence, a maze with no exit, suffering, and desires of the mice.

It is not possible for love to exist without the ability to reject that love. In fact it is pretty tough to actually love without suffering for it.

Again, I am failing to see how that runs contrary to my suggestions. It would help if you were to stop inserting your own arguments into my example, then acting as though your arguments are part of my example.

Laugh riot, if you are an entity that is malevolent.

That would be if it were an accurate characterization.

Which is the point of the OP.

The problem is that the original supposition isn't possible for logical reasons.

Those being?

God is not a being, but rather being itself... There is nothing beyond God and thus God must be fully self satisfying. Good is defined as that which is in accordance with God's will. Thus a malevolent God would be acting against his own will - which is impossible.

Unless it was God's will to be malevolent. If Good is defined as that which is in accordance with God's will, that makes Good arbitrary, as God is allowed to change His mind at any given time. Good and Evil and male/benevolence are totally incoherent concepts if it hinges upon nothing other than God's behavior. It is this reason on the whole while I find God (as described in this instance) to be an irrational concept. Good is whatever God wants. That opens the door for obvious abuse, contradiction, double standards, confusion....
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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8/12/2016 12:09:14 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.
Prove what evil is....Someone who has a rudimentary understanding of logic wouldn't even have enough life to hold their breath before you answer that. Simply asserting your opinion as to what constitutes evil doesn't make for adept reasoning or discussion. You are a joke. How about this, assuming God is an alien what alien God created this God and which alien God created the God of all aliens.....Ahhh. Fuuuuucc"kkkkk it....btw I tell the jokes......
Throwback
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8/12/2016 12:39:54 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 12:09:14 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.
Prove what evil is....Someone who has a rudimentary understanding of logic wouldn't even have enough life to hold their breath before you answer that. Simply asserting your opinion as to what constitutes evil doesn't make for adept reasoning or discussion. You are a joke. How about this, assuming God is an alien what alien God created this God and which alien God created the God of all aliens.....Ahhh. Fuuuuucc"kkkkk it....btw I tell the jokes......

It's good you clarified that you tell the jokes.

"How about this, assuming God is an alien what alien God created this God and which alien God created the God of all aliens." Your attempt to ring funny failed, but you just swerved into what reason, logic, and critical thinking tell us must be (until we are atheist and can't take it), i.e., Prima Causa.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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8/12/2016 1:24:16 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 11:54:11 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:


Unless it was God's will to be malevolent. If Good is defined as that which is in accordance with God's will, that makes Good arbitrary, as God is allowed to change His mind at any given time. Good and Evil and male/benevolence are totally incoherent concepts if it hinges upon nothing other than God's behavior. It is this reason on the whole while I find God (as described in this instance) to be an irrational concept. Good is whatever God wants. That opens the door for obvious abuse, contradiction, double standards, confusion....
+1
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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8/12/2016 1:30:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 6:07:40 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/11/2016 9:25:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

yes we should since He provides the torment place so called hell for disobeying Him.

And there it is, folks.
The cutting edge of Islamic moral thought:
"We should obey the Mobster, else He's going to break your legs".

So deep.

If there were no bad consequence such hell then why on earth would we obey someone or something so called God?

Because it would be morally justified?
I know, such a shocking concept.

the prisoners certainly should obey the prison guards, otherwise the guards would torture them.

Again, thanks for eloquently proving my point.

we talks about God, not morality.
we suppose to obey God because He threat us hell for disobeying Him.
However, we are free to choose, obey or disobey. but the consequence would be hell if disobeyed Him.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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8/12/2016 1:39:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 1:30:48 PM, uncung wrote:
At 8/11/2016 6:07:40 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/11/2016 9:25:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

yes we should since He provides the torment place so called hell for disobeying Him.

And there it is, folks.
The cutting edge of Islamic moral thought:
"We should obey the Mobster, else He's going to break your legs".

So deep.

If there were no bad consequence such hell then why on earth would we obey someone or something so called God?

Because it would be morally justified?
I know, such a shocking concept.

the prisoners certainly should obey the prison guards, otherwise the guards would torture them.

Again, thanks for eloquently proving my point.

we talks about God, not morality.
we suppose to obey God because He threat us hell for disobeying Him.
However, we are free to choose, obey or disobey. but the consequence would be hell if disobeyed Him.

Threats are not choices.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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8/12/2016 3:08:36 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 9:01:46 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Assuming God is evil requires assuming God exists, which I tend not to do! But if God did exist I would have thougt obeying him would be a good idea whether he was good or bad. Surely disobeying a malevolent God is just dumb because you can't win. You'd have the moral high ground for exactly how long it takes him to smite you with boils or a thunderbolt.

A malevolent person one can fight, and even a malevolent government but not a malevolent God - have you read Pardise Lost?

Logical thinking. But your reason of self preservation is the same whether God is good or bad.

My query was to the assumption within the question. Why does God being good imply that I should obey Him? I mean, it is obvious that the OP does not mean God should be obeyed just because He is good, but because He is a good GOD.

So what is it about God that makes my obedience reasonably expected?

And if God is evil, would He still be God? How does His being evil change the God part that makes my obedience reasonably expected?
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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8/12/2016 3:14:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 1:39:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/12/2016 1:30:48 PM, uncung wrote:
At 8/11/2016 6:07:40 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/11/2016 9:25:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

yes we should since He provides the torment place so called hell for disobeying Him.

And there it is, folks.
The cutting edge of Islamic moral thought:
"We should obey the Mobster, else He's going to break your legs".

So deep.

If there were no bad consequence such hell then why on earth would we obey someone or something so called God?

Because it would be morally justified?
I know, such a shocking concept.

the prisoners certainly should obey the prison guards, otherwise the guards would torture them.

Again, thanks for eloquently proving my point.

we talks about God, not morality.
we suppose to obey God because He threat us hell for disobeying Him.
However, we are free to choose, obey or disobey. but the consequence would be hell if disobeyed Him.

Threats are not choices.

It is a choice. I choose to obey Him while you don't.
DanneJeRusse
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8/12/2016 3:23:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 3:14:54 PM, uncung wrote:
At 8/12/2016 1:39:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/12/2016 1:30:48 PM, uncung wrote:
At 8/11/2016 6:07:40 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/11/2016 9:25:32 AM, uncung wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:27:13 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Assuming God, the creator of the universe, is malevolent. Should we obey or fight against God? There are many fictional tales of evil Gods. There is some appeal to serving a dark God.

yes we should since He provides the torment place so called hell for disobeying Him.

And there it is, folks.
The cutting edge of Islamic moral thought:
"We should obey the Mobster, else He's going to break your legs".

So deep.

If there were no bad consequence such hell then why on earth would we obey someone or something so called God?

Because it would be morally justified?
I know, such a shocking concept.

the prisoners certainly should obey the prison guards, otherwise the guards would torture them.

Again, thanks for eloquently proving my point.

we talks about God, not morality.
we suppose to obey God because He threat us hell for disobeying Him.
However, we are free to choose, obey or disobey. but the consequence would be hell if disobeyed Him.

Threats are not choices.

It is a choice. I choose to obey Him while you don't.

Sorry, but no one is telling me to obey them so there's no choice to make. What you have is an empty threat from a maniacal god, but a threat nonetheless and threats are not choices.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth