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Help me understand the Christian perspective

SNP1
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8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got, the further I drifted away.

I also don't remember much about my thought processes from back then.

I truly don't believe I understand the Christian perspective, and do wish to try to understand it.

Any help?
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
BradWatsonMiami
Posts: 38
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8/11/2016 2:54:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
SNP1,

Christians simply believe that Jesus the Nazarean (born April 17, 6 BC, crucified April 7, 30 AD) was the 'Christ': GOD's chosen one, Messiah, God-incarnate. Christians are taught that their soul is eternal and they should embrace Jesus' teachings and emulate him.

The Bible ends with (Revelation) the prophecies that "the Christ will return and usher in 1,000 years of peace", and will "judge everyone according(74) to their actions".
GOD=7_4, whereas G is the 7th letter, a circle, D is 4. GOD=7_4, 7/4=July 4th or 7 April 30 AD: Good(7__4) Friday(74) when Jesus(74=J10+E5+S19+U21+S19) was nailed on(74) the Cross(74=C3+R18+O15+S19+S19)
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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8/11/2016 6:19:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got, the further I drifted away.

Did you read both sides or did you just read one side. As questions came up, did you read the great writings of the Church find out the whys or did you compare the secular world to the little bit of spiritual training you had? It is easy to scoff and make fun of something (this board is more than enough evidence of that). However, did you ever try to find out more about the depth of what the Church has taught?

I also don't remember much about my thought processes from back then.

From experience with my friends who left the faith, it was driven by desires to do things they didn't want to do (sex, getting drunk, etc...) and so they would only find out arguments against their faith in order to intellectually discredit the Church so that they felt free in acting the way they wanted to. Never did they seriously attempt to delve deeper into their faith life.

I truly don't believe I understand the Christian perspective, and do wish to try to understand it.

Any help?

Well you are going to have to look at history and assume Christianity is true. If it is true then which form of Christianity is true? Was the the Catholic Church founded by Jesus on Pentecost? Is the Orthodox claim on Apostolic succession and authority more correct than that of the Catholics? Were the revolutionists of Luther, Calvin, etc... correct? This is important groundwork to establish first because they have some distinctly different ways of understanding the world.

Then to really understand the Christian perspective you have to view Jesus as the central point of all history. His life was not just an event in history, but that all of history before him led was focused on him, and all of history from his life was changed by him.

You have to read the bible with the understanding that it is the inspired Word of God, and learn to understand it as Christians understand it. Learn how the pieces tie together from the Old to the New.

Try to view the world as a conflict between God and Satan and that every person is an invaluable soul infinitely valuable, but in need of help on a journey to salvation.

And most importantly it has to be a lived experience. One cannot understand it without putting it into practice. The lived experience is what makes the written word understood. So the best thing you can do is to pray - I know it sounds corny to an atheist, but it really is the only way. I don't mean just cross your hands and tell God to save the starving children in Africa. Say a rosary properly, you repeat the words of the prayers and meditate on the mysteries. Then educate yourself with writings by Saints, videos that explain things at a deeper level, or read the Catechism; then repeat that rosary while reflecting on that new knowledge.

After prayer and meditation, analyze the world and its history in the light of that reflection. Once you have done that you can compare it to the way you view the world and history now.

Now that is a lot of work, but I don't know of any other way. It is what those who believe have to do.

Hope that helps.
BradWatsonMiami
Posts: 38
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8/11/2016 6:56:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Geogeer,

Are you ready for the return of the Christ?
GOD=7_4, whereas G is the 7th letter, a circle, D is 4. GOD=7_4, 7/4=July 4th or 7 April 30 AD: Good(7__4) Friday(74) when Jesus(74=J10+E5+S19+U21+S19) was nailed on(74) the Cross(74=C3+R18+O15+S19+S19)
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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8/11/2016 7:03:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 6:56:47 PM, BradWatsonMiami wrote:
Geogeer,

Are you ready for the return of the Christ?

As in, am I currently in a state of grace? Bit of a cheeky question...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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8/11/2016 7:05:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 6:56:47 PM, BradWatsonMiami wrote:
Geogeer,

Are you ready for the return of the Christ?

First visit would be impressive.BoG.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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8/11/2016 7:17:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got, the further I drifted away.

I also don't remember much about my thought processes from back then.

I truly don't believe I understand the Christian perspective, and do wish to try to understand it.

Any help?

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a cirpse nailed to a wooden cross whom they believe was sacrificed fir their sins 2000 years ago.

Christians believe Jesus's death was a human sacrifice. That it is perfectly rational for a Jew to die for their sins and sins of others. Hitler too believed as a devout Catholic such human sacrifice of Jews was justified and put 6 million Jews to death in strict adherence to Christian biblical beliefs that Jews can die for the sins of others following Jesus's example and persuasions. That sacrifice absolves them from sin and personal accountability.

75% of the prison population are made up of Christians according to a federal prison study.

http://www.patheos.com...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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8/11/2016 7:39:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 7:17:06 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got, the further I drifted away.

I also don't remember much about my thought processes from back then.

I truly don't believe I understand the Christian perspective, and do wish to try to understand it.

Any help?

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross whom they believe was sacrificed for their sins 2000 years ago.

Christians believe Jesus's death was a human sacrifice. That it is perfectly rational for a Jew to die for their sins and sins of others. Hitler too believed as a devout Catholic such human sacrifice of Jews was justified and put 6 million Jews to death in strict adherence to Christian biblical beliefs that Jews can die for the sins of others following Jesus's example and persuasions. That sacrifice absolves them from sin and personal accountability.

75% of the prison population are made up of Christians according to a federal prison study.


http://www.patheos.com...

Sorry fixed typos.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,379
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8/12/2016 3:48:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got, the further I drifted away.

I also don't remember much about my thought processes from back then.

I truly don't believe I understand the Christian perspective, and do wish to try to understand it.

Any help?
In the general sense, there are 2 types of leaving the faith. Or what our culture might consider what leaving the faith is.

1. The person who left the church because they just don't believe, or believe anymore.

2. The person who left the Christian lifestyle (church, ministry, general fellowship) not because they don't believe anymore, but because they chose to engage in, or go back to, a lifestyle fulfilling sensual desires. This person might be considered a backslider.

So #2 is still someone who can possess the Christian perspective. They are not someone who doesn't believe anymore, but someone who has strayed off the path (like Jonah). So any believer from the bar hopper to the full-fledged straight and narrow lifestyle minister could have this Christian perspective.

To give you an idea, take Job. He was not a backslider, and was not questioning the existence of God, but was questioning God's treatment of him. The existence of God was not an issue.

Job 10New International Version (NIV)

10 "I loathe my very life;
therefore I will give free rein to my complaint
and speak out in the bitterness of my soul.
2 I say to God: Do not declare me guilty,
but tell me what charges you have against me.
3 Does it please you to oppress me,
to spurn the work of your hands,
while you smile on the plans of the wicked?
4 Do you have eyes of flesh?
Do you see as a mortal sees?
5 Are your days like those of a mortal
or your years like those of a strong man,
6 that you must search out my faults
and probe after my sin"
7 though you know that I am not guilty
and that no one can rescue me from your hand?


King David was similar.

Psalm 139:8
Parallel Verses
New International Version
If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.


No matter whatever position these believers were in, good or bad, belief was not an issue.

Take the Apostle Paul. Leaving the faith was not an option. If Paul had been approached by a traveling Buddhist monk, no matter how attractive the monk made his religion appear, as far as Paul was concerned he would get knocked off his donkey and blinded again on his way to Tibet.

And there are a number of Christian converts to Buddhism in the west, so this can be used as somewhat of a test to see where the person is in their faith. Can a believer change their mind about being a Christian if they find something like Buddhism more attractive or suitable? Or, does their belief in God remain even if they think at a given moment that God is the most unfair being in existence?

So the question becomes, is there a point-of-no-return as far as actual belief in the existence of God? Where God has revealed Himself to someone in such a fashion that there's no more question of His actual existence. In Biblical terms this would apply to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jonah, David, Peter, Paul, etc. In societal terms does this apply to your average person? I would say yes. There are believers today that are at that point-of-no-return as far as being convinced of God's existence. They might be in a bar, or out on the mission field. But they know God exists. And knowing God exists will inevitably effect one's view on issues like creation and evolution.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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8/12/2016 4:17:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).


That's a good point.

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got, the further I drifted away.


You just never connected with it, so you are very wise to reconsider, I like that.

I also don't remember much about my thought processes from back then.

I truly don't believe I understand the Christian perspective, and do wish to try to understand it.

Any help?

Sure, if I were you the first thing I would do is remove all the doctrines you've heard of or have been exposed to or taught and read the Gospels and Epistles in a new light, or a fresh platform. I believe at the core Christianity should be approached with application, rather than with doctrine. Don't get me wrong there is a purpose for doctrines but they are certainly not the the focus or objective. Think application, that is, if you hadn't before, this should change everything. Also if you understand the teachings of Jesus are principle oriented they should appear no longer confusing, that is if they had before.
If you just do only those two things that should give you plenty of new perspective, and the correct ones at that.

The obvious perspective you want to understand right away as well is the nature of Theism and Christianity (what Jesus taught) as opposed to the nature of the physical, material carnal world, both realities are real and objective only the nature of the two are different.
Another perspective to consider is being open to the idea that Mhyke keeps trying to express as well is that there is an underlying principle and "message" that carries the stories and accounts for example.... it doesn't really matter whether or not the accounts in Genesis were literal or perhaps figurative, the principles remain the same, which was the message anyways. Also not saying all of scripture is figurative, I'm saying be open and free to figure them out or be open to our suggestions, to me it's very simple but I've been reading scripture for quite awhile so I understand it's literary style and the purpose behind it.
Same with the teachings of Jesus, though the illustrations may appear strange the objects in the illustrations are irrelevant to the point or the teaching for example.... Jesus says "if only you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you would move mountains".....
Here, the mustard seed, the mountain ect are all irrelevant to the principle behind it, Jesus was not instructing us to go around moving landscapes, it's the principle He is trying to convey.

Another example Jesus says He is "the bread of life" "eat my flesh, drink my blood"....
It's the same deal, Jesus was not a cannibal lol, He is teaching principles. To eat His flesh and drink His blood symbolizes consumption, but not of His flesh, His principles, His teachings, this is simple but people actually get confused.

Jesus say "take up your cross, leave behind all your possessions and follow me"....
Remember Jesus teachings are based on principles, He is always using illustrations to express what it is that is priority. Jesus didn't really mean we all should sell everything we have and carry around a cross lol, it's illustrating priorities and principles. I could go on and on but I believe you get the point.
Just adding these elements should give you plenty of new perspectives.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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8/12/2016 4:24:20 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:17:17 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).


That's a good point.

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got, the further I drifted away.


You just never connected with it, so you are very wise to reconsider, I like that.

I also don't remember much about my thought processes from back then.

I truly don't believe I understand the Christian perspective, and do wish to try to understand it.

Any help?

Sure, if I were you the first thing I would do is remove all the doctrines you've heard of or have been exposed to or taught and read the Gospels and Epistles in a new light, or a fresh platform. I believe at the core Christianity should be approached with application, rather than with doctrine. Don't get me wrong there is a purpose for doctrines but they are certainly not the the focus or objective. Think application, that is, if you hadn't before, this should change everything. Also if you understand the teachings of Jesus are principle oriented they should appear no longer confusing, that is if they had before.
If you just do only those two things that should give you plenty of new perspective, and the correct ones at that.

The obvious perspective you want to understand right away as well is the nature of Theism and Christianity (what Jesus taught) as opposed to the nature of the physical, material carnal world, both realities are real and objective only the nature of the two are different.
Another perspective to consider is being open to the idea that Mhyke keeps trying to express as well is that there is an underlying principle and "message" that carries the stories and accounts for example.... it doesn't really matter whether or not the accounts in Genesis were literal or perhaps figurative, the principles remain the same, which was the message anyways. Also not saying all of scripture is figurative, I'm saying be open and free to figure them out or be open to our suggestions, to me it's very simple but I've been reading scripture for quite awhile so I understand it's literary style and the purpose behind it.
Same with the teachings of Jesus, though the illustrations may appear strange the objects in the illustrations are irrelevant to the point or the teaching for example.... Jesus says "if only you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you would move mountains".....
Here, the mustard seed, the mountain ect are all irrelevant to the principle behind it, Jesus was not instructing us to go around moving landscapes, it's the principle He is trying to convey.

Another example Jesus says He is "the bread of life" "eat my flesh, drink my blood"....
It's the same deal, Jesus was not a cannibal lol, He is teaching principles. To eat His flesh and drink His blood symbolizes consumption, but not of His flesh, His principles, His teachings, this is simple but people actually get confused.

Jesus say "take up your cross, leave behind all your possessions and follow me"....
Remember Jesus teachings are based on principles, He is always using illustrations to express what it is that is priority. Jesus didn't really mean we all should sell everything we have and carry around a cross lol, it's illustrating priorities and principles. I could go on and on but I believe you get the point.
Just adding these elements should give you plenty of new perspectives.

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross whom they believe was sacrificed for their sins 2000 years ago.

Christians believe Jesus's death was a human sacrifice. That it is perfectly rational for a Jew to die for their sins and sins of others. Hitler too believed as a devout Catholic such human sacrifice of Jews was justified and put 6 million Jews to death in strict adherence to Christian biblical beliefs that Jews can die for the sins of others following Jesus's example and persuasions. That sacrifice absolves them from sin and personal accountability.

75% of the prison population are made up of Christians according to a federal prison study.

http://www.patheos.com...
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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8/12/2016 4:33:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:24:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:17:17 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).


That's a good point.

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got, the further I drifted away.


You just never connected with it, so you are very wise to reconsider, I like that.

I also don't remember much about my thought processes from back then.

I truly don't believe I understand the Christian perspective, and do wish to try to understand it.

Any help?

Sure, if I were you the first thing I would do is remove all the doctrines you've heard of or have been exposed to or taught and read the Gospels and Epistles in a new light, or a fresh platform. I believe at the core Christianity should be approached with application, rather than with doctrine. Don't get me wrong there is a purpose for doctrines but they are certainly not the the focus or objective. Think application, that is, if you hadn't before, this should change everything. Also if you understand the teachings of Jesus are principle oriented they should appear no longer confusing, that is if they had before.
If you just do only those two things that should give you plenty of new perspective, and the correct ones at that.

The obvious perspective you want to understand right away as well is the nature of Theism and Christianity (what Jesus taught) as opposed to the nature of the physical, material carnal world, both realities are real and objective only the nature of the two are different.
Another perspective to consider is being open to the idea that Mhyke keeps trying to express as well is that there is an underlying principle and "message" that carries the stories and accounts for example.... it doesn't really matter whether or not the accounts in Genesis were literal or perhaps figurative, the principles remain the same, which was the message anyways. Also not saying all of scripture is figurative, I'm saying be open and free to figure them out or be open to our suggestions, to me it's very simple but I've been reading scripture for quite awhile so I understand it's literary style and the purpose behind it.
Same with the teachings of Jesus, though the illustrations may appear strange the objects in the illustrations are irrelevant to the point or the teaching for example.... Jesus says "if only you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you would move mountains".....
Here, the mustard seed, the mountain ect are all irrelevant to the principle behind it, Jesus was not instructing us to go around moving landscapes, it's the principle He is trying to convey.

Another example Jesus says He is "the bread of life" "eat my flesh, drink my blood"....
It's the same deal, Jesus was not a cannibal lol, He is teaching principles. To eat His flesh and drink His blood symbolizes consumption, but not of His flesh, His principles, His teachings, this is simple but people actually get confused.

Jesus say "take up your cross, leave behind all your possessions and follow me"....
Remember Jesus teachings are based on principles, He is always using illustrations to express what it is that is priority. Jesus didn't really mean we all should sell everything we have and carry around a cross lol, it's illustrating priorities and principles. I could go on and on but I believe you get the point.
Just adding these elements should give you plenty of new perspectives.

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross whom they believe was sacrificed for their sins 2000 years ago.

Christians believe Jesus's death was a human sacrifice. That it is perfectly rational for a Jew to die for their sins and sins of others. Hitler too believed as a devout Catholic such human sacrifice of Jews was justified and put 6 million Jews to death in strict adherence to Christian biblical beliefs that Jews can die for the sins of others following Jesus's example and persuasions. That sacrifice absolves them from sin and personal accountability.

75% of the prison population are made up of Christians according to a federal prison study.

http://www.patheos.com...

Sorry Hari you can chase me around and harass me with the same nonsense I dealt with over and over again but it doesn't matter, you will be known as a liar and lunatic. It should be quite clear to everyone here you have some vendetta with Jesus, you're so obsessed with it it's making you look like a complete lunatic, how fitting.
Not only that you can't speak for your own religion, all we know of you is that you are an obsessed clown who is obviously angry at Christianity, now go read your Bible and move along.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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8/12/2016 4:46:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:38:42 PM, UUU wrote:
It's off topic. But I would like to know What is the goal of a Christian's life?

To know, love and serve God in this life and the next, and to love your neighbour as yourself.
UUU
Posts: 176
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8/12/2016 4:51:05 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
To know, love and serve God in this life and the next, and to love your neighbour as yourself.

Hey, wait.. Christians believe in afterlives? Really curious now.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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8/12/2016 4:52:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got,...

So let me be the one to give you the answer you want: Christians are uneducated hicks. There, that's a relief, isn't it?
This space for rent.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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8/12/2016 4:56:59 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:24:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
...

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross

Well, you gotta admit, having a corpse stay nailed to a cross for 2000 years IS pretty remarkable. Where exactly is this corpse-on-a-cross kept, anyhow?

Jesus keeps bringing out the crazy in people, doesn't he, even to this day.
This space for rent.
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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8/12/2016 4:58:33 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:56:59 PM, v3nesl wrote:

Jesus keeps bringing out the crazy in people, doesn't he, even to this day.

Signature-worthy material right there.
And from a Christian, no less...
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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8/12/2016 5:33:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:58:33 PM, Omniverse wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:56:59 PM, v3nesl wrote:

Jesus keeps bringing out the crazy in people, doesn't he, even to this day.

Signature-worthy material right there.
And from a Christian, no less...

He called himself the stumbling stone, and he sure is.

No moral equivalence here, but it's kind of like the Donald Trump phenomenon - you can see who's afraid of losing political favors by who is a bit crazy in opposition to him, and it's sometimes not who you would expect.
This space for rent.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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8/12/2016 5:36:36 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:33:12 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:24:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:17:17 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/11/2016 2:31:45 PM, SNP1 wrote:
A good friend of mine and a PhD historian of New Testament (used to be a preacher, now an atheist) has told me that the best way to be objective, and to understand Christian history is to both understand to outside perspective (secularism) and the inside perspective (Christianity).


That's a good point.

I do understand the secular perspective very well, but not so much the Christian perspective.

True, I was once a Christian, but never because I was persuaded by Christianity, but because I was raised into it. The older and more educated I got, the further I drifted away.


You just never connected with it, so you are very wise to reconsider, I like that.

I also don't remember much about my thought processes from back then.

I truly don't believe I understand the Christian perspective, and do wish to try to understand it.

Any help?

Sure, if I were you the first thing I would do is remove all the doctrines you've heard of or have been exposed to or taught and read the Gospels and Epistles in a new light, or a fresh platform. I believe at the core Christianity should be approached with application, rather than with doctrine. Don't get me wrong there is a purpose for doctrines but they are certainly not the the focus or objective. Think application, that is, if you hadn't before, this should change everything. Also if you understand the teachings of Jesus are principle oriented they should appear no longer confusing, that is if they had before.
If you just do only those two things that should give you plenty of new perspective, and the correct ones at that.

The obvious perspective you want to understand right away as well is the nature of Theism and Christianity (what Jesus taught) as opposed to the nature of the physical, material carnal world, both realities are real and objective only the nature of the two are different.
Another perspective to consider is being open to the idea that Mhyke keeps trying to express as well is that there is an underlying principle and "message" that carries the stories and accounts for example.... it doesn't really matter whether or not the accounts in Genesis were literal or perhaps figurative, the principles remain the same, which was the message anyways. Also not saying all of scripture is figurative, I'm saying be open and free to figure them out or be open to our suggestions, to me it's very simple but I've been reading scripture for quite awhile so I understand it's literary style and the purpose behind it.
Same with the teachings of Jesus, though the illustrations may appear strange the objects in the illustrations are irrelevant to the point or the teaching for example.... Jesus says "if only you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you would move mountains".....
Here, the mustard seed, the mountain ect are all irrelevant to the principle behind it, Jesus was not instructing us to go around moving landscapes, it's the principle He is trying to convey.

Another example Jesus says He is "the bread of life" "eat my flesh, drink my blood"....
It's the same deal, Jesus was not a cannibal lol, He is teaching principles. To eat His flesh and drink His blood symbolizes consumption, but not of His flesh, His principles, His teachings, this is simple but people actually get confused.

Jesus say "take up your cross, leave behind all your possessions and follow me"....
Remember Jesus teachings are based on principles, He is always using illustrations to express what it is that is priority. Jesus didn't really mean we all should sell everything we have and carry around a cross lol, it's illustrating priorities and principles. I could go on and on but I believe you get the point.
Just adding these elements should give you plenty of new perspectives.

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross whom they believe was sacrificed for their sins 2000 years ago.

Christians believe Jesus's death was a human sacrifice. That it is perfectly rational for a Jew to die for their sins and sins of others. Hitler too believed as a devout Catholic such human sacrifice of Jews was justified and put 6 million Jews to death in strict adherence to Christian biblical beliefs that Jews can die for the sins of others following Jesus's example and persuasions. That sacrifice absolves them from sin and personal accountability.

75% of the prison population are made up of Christians according to a federal prison study.

http://www.patheos.com...

Sorry Hari you can chase me around and harass me with the same nonsense I dealt with over and over again but it doesn't matter, you will be known as a liar and lunatic. It should be quite clear to everyone here you have some vendetta with Jesus, you're so obsessed with it it's making you look like a complete lunatic, how fitting.
Not only that you can't speak for your own religion, all we know of you is that you are an obsessed clown who is obviously angry at Christianity, now go read your Bible and move along.

There aren't too many Christian liars and lunatics left on DDO. The religious forum is overrun with Atheists who are convinced Jesus was a liar and lunatic and that Christians believe those values got Jesus into heaven and they are determined to follow his example.
Why are Christians potraying God as a liar and lunatic or turning a liar and lunatic like Jesus into a God?

The Pope explains:" Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U.S. tour. "And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus ... and His life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross."

The Pope is reassuring Christians that they should be prepared to fail and produce no fruit because they are followers of Jesus a loser ..... and His life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross.

I like the Pope is a champion for Christians and use scriptures to prove what the Pope is saying about Jesus and Christians can be found in the Bible.

Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Jesus too was expected to be despised and held in low esteem and hung in the cross like a common criminal.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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8/12/2016 5:47:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:51:05 PM, UUU wrote:
To know, love and serve God in this life and the next, and to love your neighbour as yourself.

Hey, wait.. Christians believe in afterlives? Really curious now.

Yeah, who knew?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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8/12/2016 6:01:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 4:56:59 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:24:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
...

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross

Well, you gotta admit, having a corpse stay nailed to a cross for 2000 years IS pretty remarkable. Where exactly is this corpse-on-a-cross kept, anyhow?

Jesus keeps bringing out the crazy in people, doesn't he, even to this day.

The crucifix is a symbol of the deluded beliefs of a Jewish rabbi who was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. Christianity is the only religion where the believers worship a corpse that was nailed to a wooden cross. They even reproduce the body/corpse nailed to a wooden cross in their symbolic crucifix.
The cross can be seen as a symbolic sign on and in churches and kept/worn as an artifact.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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8/15/2016 2:32:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 6:01:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:56:59 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:24:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
...

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross

Well, you gotta admit, having a corpse stay nailed to a cross for 2000 years IS pretty remarkable. Where exactly is this corpse-on-a-cross kept, anyhow?

Jesus keeps bringing out the crazy in people, doesn't he, even to this day.

The crucifix is a symbol of the deluded beliefs of a Jewish rabbi who was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. Christianity is the only religion where the believers worship a corpse that was nailed to a wooden cross. They even reproduce the body/corpse nailed to a wooden cross in their symbolic crucifix.
The cross can be seen as a symbolic sign on and in churches and kept/worn as an artifact.

So, "reproduce the body nailed to a cross in their symbolic crucifix" is equivalent to "worship a corpse nailed to a cross" - ?

I just always find it very significant when somebody can't honestly describe what they claim is ridiculous. If something actually IS ridiculous, you can just tell it like it is. If you have to spin it, it's probably YOU who has the problem.
This space for rent.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,124
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8/15/2016 2:41:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 2:32:46 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 8/12/2016 6:01:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:56:59 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:24:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
...

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross

Well, you gotta admit, having a corpse stay nailed to a cross for 2000 years IS pretty remarkable. Where exactly is this corpse-on-a-cross kept, anyhow?

Jesus keeps bringing out the crazy in people, doesn't he, even to this day.

The crucifix is a symbol of the deluded beliefs of a Jewish rabbi who was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. Christianity is the only religion where the believers worship a corpse that was nailed to a wooden cross. They even reproduce the body/corpse nailed to a wooden cross in their symbolic crucifix.
The cross can be seen as a symbolic sign on and in churches and kept/worn as an artifact.

So, "reproduce the body nailed to a cross in their symbolic crucifix" is equivalent to "worship a corpse nailed to a cross" - ?

I just always find it very significant when somebody can't honestly describe what they claim is ridiculous. If something actually IS ridiculous, you can just tell it like it is. If you have to spin it, it's probably YOU who has the problem.

On this we agree, V.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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8/15/2016 3:15:08 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 2:32:46 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 8/12/2016 6:01:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:56:59 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:24:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
...

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross

Well, you gotta admit, having a corpse stay nailed to a cross for 2000 years IS pretty remarkable. Where exactly is this corpse-on-a-cross kept, anyhow?

Jesus keeps bringing out the crazy in people, doesn't he, even to this day.

The crucifix is a symbol of the deluded beliefs of a Jewish rabbi who was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. Christianity is the only religion where the believers worship a corpse that was nailed to a wooden cross. They even reproduce the body/corpse nailed to a wooden cross in their symbolic crucifix.
The cross can be seen as a symbolic sign on and in churches and kept/worn as an artifact.

So, "reproduce the body nailed to a cross in their symbolic crucifix" is equivalent to "worship a corpse nailed to a cross" - ?

Corpse definition: a dead body, especially of a human being rather than an animal.
Jesus was nailed to a wooden cross and died on the cross. He was the corpse (dead human body) that was nailed to a wooden cross that Christians worship.

Britannica.

"The cross: It is used primarily as a religious symbol, and is the principal symbol of Christianity. The cross recalls the Crucifixion of Jesus and the redeeming benefits of his Passion and death. It is thus a sign both of Jesus and of the faith of Christians. A crucifix is a representation of Jesus on the cross."

Jesus was the corpse nailed to a wooden cross that Christians worship..
It is not an equivalent. Jesus was the corpse nailed to a wooden cross that Christians worship..

I just always find it very significant when somebody can't honestly describe what they claim is ridiculous. If something actually IS ridiculous, you can just tell it like it is. If you have to spin it, it's probably YOU who has the problem.
Why do you find Christians worshipping a corpse nailed to a wooden cross ridiculous? 2 billion Christians accept Jesus was the corpse nailed to a wooden cross that Christians worship..
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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8/15/2016 3:17:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 2:48:24 PM, v3nesl

I wonder would you like to participate here: http://www.debate.org...
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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8/15/2016 4:25:04 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:15:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/15/2016 2:32:46 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 8/12/2016 6:01:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:56:59 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 8/12/2016 4:24:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:
...

The Christian perspective is very simple. Christianity is the only religion where people worship a corpse nailed to a wooden cross

Well, you gotta admit, having a corpse stay nailed to a cross for 2000 years IS pretty remarkable. Where exactly is this corpse-on-a-cross kept, anyhow?

Jesus keeps bringing out the crazy in people, doesn't he, even to this day.

The crucifix is a symbol of the deluded beliefs of a Jewish rabbi who was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. Christianity is the only religion where the believers worship a corpse that was nailed to a wooden cross. They even reproduce the body/corpse nailed to a wooden cross in their symbolic crucifix.
The cross can be seen as a symbolic sign on and in churches and kept/worn as an artifact.

So, "reproduce the body nailed to a cross in their symbolic crucifix" is equivalent to "worship a corpse nailed to a cross" - ?

Corpse definition: a dead body, especially of a human being rather than an animal.
Jesus was nailed to a wooden cross and died on the cross. He was the corpse (dead human body) that was nailed to a wooden cross that Christians worship.

"Was". The present tense is that Jesus is alive. This is the Christ that Christians worship.

To put it to you in a way most Christians won't, in person: Don't be an a$$. You don't have to believe the story, that's your call, but if you can't even relate the story as it is told, you obvious have a burr of some sort up your butt.
This space for rent.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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8/15/2016 10:15:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
The Truth will set you free.

That's pretty much it. God is The Ultimate Reality, and we show our love for God by being sincere in our faith and charitable with our love. It's about Truth worship and the acceptance of God's will.

To be honest, anyone who would be against this is an idiot.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
uncung
Posts: 3,453
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8/16/2016 1:04:38 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 10:15:03 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
The Truth will set you free.

That's pretty much it. God is The Ultimate Reality, and we show our love for God by being sincere in our faith and charitable with our love. It's about Truth worship and the acceptance of God's will.

To be honest, anyone who would be against this is an idiot.

you must be a Hindu.