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RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/13/2016 5:46:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?

Atheists have no beliefs in common, UUU, beyond the rejection of the theological construct called a god.

For myself, I believe attestations of magic are a product of psychology, the 'laws' of nature are simply an observational description of repeated behaviour, the 'origin' of repeated behaviour presently has no meaning, though we might be able to give it meaning in future, and since it presently has no meaning, it is not meaningful to conjecture or hold beliefs about it.
UUU
Posts: 176
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8/13/2016 5:58:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
If you are interested in a conversation with me, you must post your opinion on other two of my threads, namely -
Groundbreaking http://www.debate.org...
and Disprove this statement http://www.debate.org...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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8/13/2016 6:01:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 5:58:53 PM, UUU wrote:
If you are interested in a conversation with me, you must post your opinion on other two of my threads, namely -
Groundbreaking http://www.debate.org...
and Disprove this statement http://www.debate.org...

Then, that would make this thread irrelevant, too?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/13/2016 6:06:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 5:58:53 PM, UUU wrote:
If you are interested in a conversation with me, you must post your opinion on other two of my threads, namely -
Groundbreaking http://www.debate.org...
and Disprove this statement http://www.debate.org...

I don't know whether I'm interested in conversation with you, UUU, since that would depend on the topic, what you contribute, and how you present it.

Regarding your second linked thread, I answered it because it was interesting enough to respond to. I haven't yet considered your first, and may or may not respond.

However I am happy to contribute to this topic, whether or not you acknowledge that contribution.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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8/13/2016 6:46:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?

Magic (definition) - 'used in magic or working by magic; having or apparently having supernatural powers.'

Since atheists don't typically believe in the supernatural, most probably do not think magic is real.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,084
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8/13/2016 6:59:42 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
"Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically" seems like a good starting point for a debate on the origins of physical laws. After all, atheists can't invoke a deity to underwrite the truth of e=mc^2, so what 'magic' does makes it true?

Actually, e=mc^2 can be derived from simpler rules, such as the fixed speed of light and the conservation of momentum, but that only leads to asking why the speed of light is fixed and why momentum is conserved.

I'd say that in practice the problem of the origin of the laws of nature is handled 'Blind eye' style - that is the problem is tacitly acknowledeged and quietly ignored. Scientists don't believe the laws of nature orginate magically - they have no views about their origin whatsoever. They consider it a 'philosophical' problem that might or might not get settled, but until then there is plenty of real work to be done.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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8/13/2016 9:07:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?

Response: Yes. Atheists believe do not believe in God. So they accept things come from magic, and their prophets, whom they refer to as scientists, have all the answers.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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8/13/2016 9:34:18 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 9:07:40 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?

Response: Yes. Atheists believe do not believe in God. So they accept things come from magic, and their prophets, whom they refer to as scientists, have all the answers.
How did your god create the laws of physics, and how did your god impliment these laws? How does he sustain them? How did your god create the universe? Please be detailed and specific.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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8/13/2016 9:36:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 9:34:18 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:07:40 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?

Response: Yes. Atheists believe do not believe in God. So they accept things come from magic, and their prophets, whom they refer to as scientists, have all the answers.
How did your god create the laws of physics, and how did your god impliment these laws? How does he sustain them? How did your god create the universe? Please be detailed and specific.

Response: Whenever Allah decrees a matter, He merely wills it into existence.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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8/13/2016 9:39:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 9:36:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:34:18 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:07:40 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?

Response: Yes. Atheists believe do not believe in God. So they accept things come from magic, and their prophets, whom they refer to as scientists, have all the answers.
How did your god create the laws of physics, and how did your god impliment these laws? How does he sustain them? How did your god create the universe? Please be detailed and specific.

Response: Whenever Allah decrees a matter, He merely wills it into existence.
That sounds a lot like magic.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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8/13/2016 9:50:21 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 9:39:40 PM, janesix wrote:

That sounds a lot like magic.

Response: Magic is possible by Allah. Not by the supernatural entity believed by atheists.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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8/13/2016 9:52:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 9:50:21 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:39:40 PM, janesix wrote:

That sounds a lot like magic.

Response: Magic is possible by Allah. Not by the supernatural entity believed by atheists.

What supernatural entity believed by atheists?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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8/13/2016 9:54:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 9:52:24 PM, janesix wrote:


What supernatural entity believed by atheists?
Response: The one you believe you originated from.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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8/13/2016 9:56:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 9:54:47 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:52:24 PM, janesix wrote:


What supernatural entity believed by atheists?
Response: The one you believe you originated from.

I am not an atheist. No atheists i know of believe in supernatural creator entities.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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8/13/2016 10:00:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 9:56:35 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:54:47 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:52:24 PM, janesix wrote:


What supernatural entity believed by atheists?
Response: The one you believe you originated from.

I am not an atheist. No atheists i know of believe in supernatural creator entities.

Response: Whether atheist or agnostic, you originated from somewhere. Hence, you have a supernatural creator.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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8/13/2016 10:02:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 10:00:19 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:56:35 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:54:47 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 9:52:24 PM, janesix wrote:


What supernatural entity believed by atheists?
Response: The one you believe you originated from.

I am not an atheist. No atheists i know of believe in supernatural creator entities.

Response: Whether atheist or agnostic, you originated from somewhere. Hence, you have a supernatural creator.
I believe in a supernatural creator.
Atheists do not.
That is the definition of atheist.
Think about it.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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8/13/2016 10:09:25 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 10:02:23 PM, janesix wrote:

I believe in a supernatural creator.
Atheists do not.
That is the definition of atheist.
Think about it.

Response: The you also believe in magic, and atheists do believe in a supernatural creator. They believe they originated from something. That something by definition is supernatural. Nothing to think about.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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8/13/2016 10:13:32 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 10:09:25 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 10:02:23 PM, janesix wrote:

I believe in a supernatural creator.
Atheists do not.
That is the definition of atheist.
Think about it.

Response: The you also believe in magic, and atheists do believe in a supernatural creator. They believe they originated from something. That something by definition is supernatural. Nothing to think about.

Atheism is defined as non-belief in a diety. What any particular atheist believes is irrelevent.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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8/13/2016 11:11:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?

That is not a statement that can be answered for all atheists.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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8/13/2016 11:34:33 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?
There is no mystery about the physical laws governing the universe. It can be measured by the methods of science. There is no magic there. Physicists even explain how the laws of nature originated. It started with the Big Bang , thermodynamics, gravity, entropy etc. etc.

But God and what is outside the realm of mythological naturalism cannot be measured by the methods of science (Steven Novella). In short there is no scientific evidence for the existence of the God of the Bible.

But there are psychiatric evaluations of the Biblical characters and, the people who follow them have been diagnosed as mentally ill.

There is no magic needed to explain mental illness. It can be measured by the methods of science and psychiatry.
UUU
Posts: 176
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8/14/2016 7:46:28 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
keithprosser : I'd say that in practice the problem of the origin of the laws of nature is handled 'Blind eye' style - that is the problem is tacitly acknowledeged and quietly ignored.

Some people mistake magic trick for Magic . They are amused by the performance but not curious about what happened behind the scenes.

But once the trick is revealed, magic is over. It doesn't trick (for) you. Now imagine, what happens when tricks and illusions are the basis of something.

Just because something is repeatable and predictable, doesn't mean it's real . An experienced illusionist will pull the rabbit out of the hat for the audience - as many times as they attend the show. Does that mean that hat somehow produced rabbit? No.

But the amusement and wonder will cease. You know how it happened, what's the big deal? Observe how a young one looks at the world. Everyday things easily manage to amuse him. When he grows up he takes things for granted, desensitized to the real magic that happens around all the time.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,084
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8/14/2016 8:36:27 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
The topic is "Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?" and I say 'No', because atheists (such as myself)don't have any positive belief about the origins of physical laws. Logically, atheists can't believe a god was involved, but we are rather forced to admit ignorance as to what the origin was, at least given the present state of knowledge.

I don't think that worries many atheists. The thing about atheism is that it does mean accepting not knowing things, or rather accepting that knowing stuff requires a bit more effort than most theists seem willing to put into it.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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8/14/2016 9:28:52 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 10:13:32 PM, janesix wrote:

Atheism is defined as non-belief in a diety. What any particular atheist believes is irrelevent.

Response: A deity and an entity are not the same. So an atheist who acknowledges their existence originated from a supernatural entity is still defined as atheism.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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8/14/2016 9:49:37 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 9:28:52 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/13/2016 10:13:32 PM, janesix wrote:

Atheism is defined as non-belief in a diety. What any particular atheist believes is irrelevent.

Response: A deity and an entity are not the same. So an atheist who acknowledges their existence originated from a supernatural entity is still defined as atheism.
It's lovely to see someone as proud of his ignorance as you are.
Well we all want to be proud of something. LOL
tarantula
Posts: 866
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8/14/2016 10:00:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?

If you are suggesting a god of some sort created everything, who magicked the god into being?
Willows
Posts: 2,084
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8/14/2016 1:42:00 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 5:41:17 PM, UUU wrote:
Do atheists believe laws of nature originate magically?

That's a good question.
I can't speak for all atheists, however as being one myself, the answer is no.
I don't know how the laws of nature originated, nor does anybody else.