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Faith vs morality, which is more important?

Willows
Posts: 2,068
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8/14/2016 7:04:24 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:

A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Thanks

Holy crapola, you set up a good one here.
I'll take the B option thanks.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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8/14/2016 10:37:27 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:

A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Thanks

could you explain by what standard a moral non believer would be judged by to declare them moral????
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

It's no contest.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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8/14/2016 10:52:10 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.

no need to ask you show yourself in your posts..lol
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 10:54:41 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 10:52:10 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.

no need to ask you show yourself in your posts..lol
Please do me the courtesy of quoting the opinion you imputed then, or else explain to the forum how an opinion imputed without a supporting quote is not a strawman.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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8/14/2016 10:59:11 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 10:54:41 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:52:10 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.

no need to ask you show yourself in your posts..lol
Please do me the courtesy of quoting the opinion you imputed then, or else explain to the forum how an opinion imputed without a supporting quote is not a strawman.

my opinion on this thread has been clearly stated, your belief that just because some idiot a long time ago yelled "God wills it" , means that God wants people to kill each other is ridiculous as is blaming all religion for the wrongs in the world, many non believers commit atrocities are we to blame those atrocities on atheism..
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 11:08:30 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 10:59:11 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:54:41 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:52:10 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.

no need to ask you show yourself in your posts..lol
Please do me the courtesy of quoting the opinion you imputed then, or else explain to the forum how an opinion imputed without a supporting quote is not a strawman.

my opinion on this thread has been clearly stated,
Which is irrelevant to you misreporting my opinions, based on evidence you refuse to supply.

From recollection, GoG I believe you may adhere to a Protestant rite. Could you please explain then what the Ninth Commandment is in the Protestant catechesis, whether misreporting the words of another is considered a sin in Christian canon, and whether you consider that appropriate in any circumstance whatsoever?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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8/14/2016 11:15:55 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 11:08:30 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:59:11 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:54:41 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:52:10 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.

no need to ask you show yourself in your posts..lol
Please do me the courtesy of quoting the opinion you imputed then, or else explain to the forum how an opinion imputed without a supporting quote is not a strawman.

my opinion on this thread has been clearly stated,
Which is irrelevant to you misreporting my opinions, based on evidence you refuse to supply.

From recollection, GoG I believe you may adhere to a Protestant rite. Could you please explain then what the Ninth Commandment is in the Protestant catechesis, whether misreporting the words of another is considered a sin in Christian canon, and whether you consider that appropriate in any circumstance whatsoever?

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

are those your words??

so you believe religion is responsible for those things and equally responsible for not encouraging kindness respect.. and all your other drivel ...

how have i born false witness...lol
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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8/14/2016 11:19:01 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:

A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Thanks

Nonsensical, faith means to have complete confidence and trust in God or His principles, the subject of moral behavior is not related to faith though morality and faith work together, two different elements.
Morality and faith are two separate subjects, which is why I choose option C. to have both faith and morality.
C. faith-fully moral believer.
willbedone
Posts: 127
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8/14/2016 11:20:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:

A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Thanks : :

The title of your OP should say, "Belief vs. morality, which is more important". Faith has nothing to do with belief.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 12:06:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 11:15:55 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:08:30 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:59:11 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:54:41 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:52:10 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.
It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.
no need to ask you show yourself in your posts..lol
Please do me the courtesy of quoting the opinion you imputed then, or else explain to the forum how an opinion imputed without a supporting quote is not a strawman.
"Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better."
so you believe religion is responsible for those things and equally responsible for not encouraging kindness respect..
As you can read, GoG, I said religious faith makes poor behaviour worse, while not making good behaviour substantially better. What I did not say is that religion causes all bad behaviour, nor prevents any good behaviour. Which is what makes your rebuttal a strawman:

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....

Meanwhile, your repeated denial that you invented a falsehood purely for ridicule is serial dishonesty, while your obstinate refusal to admit error is a display of pride.

Apparently, then GoG, your pious contempt for atheists also extends to a contempt for truth and dignity, while your religiosity has done nothing for your honesty, humility nor respect.

So ironically, you have illustrated the very point my original reply made, haven't you?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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8/14/2016 1:46:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 12:06:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:15:55 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:08:30 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:59:11 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:54:41 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:52:10 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.
It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.
no need to ask you show yourself in your posts..lol
Please do me the courtesy of quoting the opinion you imputed then, or else explain to the forum how an opinion imputed without a supporting quote is not a strawman.
"Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better."
so you believe religion is responsible for those things and equally responsible for not encouraging kindness respect..
As you can read, GoG, I said religious faith makes poor behaviour worse, while not making good behaviour substantially better. What I did not say is that religion causes all bad behaviour, nor prevents any good behaviour. Which is what makes your rebuttal a strawman:

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....

Meanwhile, your repeated denial that you invented a falsehood purely for ridicule is serial dishonesty, while your obstinate refusal to admit error is a display of pride.

Apparently, then GoG, your pious contempt for atheists also extends to a contempt for truth and dignity, while your religiosity has done nothing for your honesty, humility nor respect.

So ironically, you have illustrated the very point my original reply made, haven't you?

of course that is what you said, you always say the same thing, blame religion..

I have no contempt for anyone, I hope all will be saved, it is people like you who cause hatred... now how ironic is that, you all against hate continuously show hate for religion and believers...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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8/14/2016 1:59:59 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:

A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Thanks

Christians have to go with A. According to scriptures everything can be justified by faith, where morality doesn't matter.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

This explains why 75% of the prison population are Christians. They are justified by faith even in their criminal immoral activities.

Federal Prison Survey.
http://www.patheos.com...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 2:43:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:46:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 12:06:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:15:55 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:08:30 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:59:11 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:54:41 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:52:10 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.
It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.
no need to ask you show yourself in your posts..lol
Please do me the courtesy of quoting the opinion you imputed then, or else explain to the forum how an opinion imputed without a supporting quote is not a strawman.
"Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better."
so you believe religion is responsible for those things and equally responsible for not encouraging kindness respect..
As you can read, GoG, I said religious faith makes poor behaviour worse, while not making good behaviour substantially better. What I did not say is that religion causes all bad behaviour, nor prevents any good behaviour. Which is what makes your rebuttal a strawman:

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....

Meanwhile, your repeated denial that you invented a falsehood purely for ridicule is serial dishonesty, while your obstinate refusal to admit error is a display of pride.

Apparently, then GoG, your pious contempt for atheists also extends to a contempt for truth and dignity, while your religiosity has done nothing for your honesty, humility nor respect.

So ironically, you have illustrated the very point my original reply made, haven't you?

of course that is what you said, you always say the same thing, blame religion..

But I didn't blame religion, did I GoG? I didn't say it was at the root of all ills; I simply said it made bad behaviour worse, yet doesn't make good behaviour better.

Yet are you saying it's not your religious zeal that has made you behave disrespectfully, dishonestly, ignorantly and unethically toward me in this thread?

Please talk us through how it's not your faith-based ignorance and contempt producing this shameful behaviour. What is it you'd like to blame instead?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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8/14/2016 3:33:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:43:58 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:46:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 12:06:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:15:55 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:08:30 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:59:11 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:54:41 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:52:10 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:50:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:49:19 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.
It's no contest.

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....
oh boy talk about blind..

If you'd want to know what I actually think, GoG, please feel free to ask.
no need to ask you show yourself in your posts..lol
Please do me the courtesy of quoting the opinion you imputed then, or else explain to the forum how an opinion imputed without a supporting quote is not a strawman.
"Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better."
so you believe religion is responsible for those things and equally responsible for not encouraging kindness respect..
As you can read, GoG, I said religious faith makes poor behaviour worse, while not making good behaviour substantially better. What I did not say is that religion causes all bad behaviour, nor prevents any good behaviour. Which is what makes your rebuttal a strawman:

ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other....

Meanwhile, your repeated denial that you invented a falsehood purely for ridicule is serial dishonesty, while your obstinate refusal to admit error is a display of pride.

Apparently, then GoG, your pious contempt for atheists also extends to a contempt for truth and dignity, while your religiosity has done nothing for your honesty, humility nor respect.

So ironically, you have illustrated the very point my original reply made, haven't you?

of course that is what you said, you always say the same thing, blame religion..

But I didn't blame religion, did I GoG? I didn't say it was at the root of all ills; I simply said it made bad behaviour worse, yet doesn't make good behaviour better.

Yet are you saying it's not your religious zeal that has made you behave disrespectfully, dishonestly, ignorantly and unethically toward me in this thread?

Please talk us through how it's not your faith-based ignorance and contempt producing this shameful behaviour. What is it you'd like to blame instead?

hmm let's see, you blamed it for religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression, your words and then went on to say it helps in no way with..while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better."

you seem to be confusing yourself with your own argument...

but again outside of faith, religion we seed death, destruction, hate, intolerance, tyranny committed by atheists on a much grander scale than believers, so perhaps atheism should be banned...
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/14/2016 3:37:51 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:

A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Thanks

Its not defined enough to list those options. For example which world view of morality are you implying?
A believer cant really be one if they are immoral according to biblical standards. So you might as well be asking about an immoral non believer vs a moral non believer.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/14/2016 3:38:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

It's no contest.

Bolshevism didnt?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 3:42:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 3:38:46 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

Bolshevism didnt?

Bigs, I understand that you accept my point, and now want to point to other bad thought not on Ape's list.

That would only be valid had I said religion was the worst of all human ideas.

I didn't, but thank you for acknowledging my point.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 4:08:32 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 3:33:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:43:58 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Please talk us through how it's not your faith-based ignorance and contempt producing this shameful behaviour. What is it you'd like to blame instead?
hmm let's see, you blamed it for religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression

... worse.

For example, a person taught that only his faith is virtuous, and that only the blind and foolish reject it, might post this in contempt:
ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other.... oh boy talk about blind..

Because in his mind, it doesn't matter what one atheist says. To him, all are the same, because he has been taught that all are the same.

And then, when he realises one didn't actually say that, he might have to lie and pretend it happened anyway -- because all atheists are the same aren't they? If an atheist didn't say it, he must at least have thought it. And then, when his lie was called, he might stick to it for pride. After all, one must appear proud and sinless before heathens, mustn't one?

That contempt, the dishonesty and pride have to come from somewhere, don't they, GoG?

Where do you think they came from?

Can you tell us, when was the first time someone vilified atheists in your hearing?

How old were you?

Was it clergy, or some trusted family member who told you how to feel and think about people who had committed no other offense than rejecting your beliefs on grounds of reason and conscience? That it was virtuous to adopt a posture of proud scorn whenever you met them? That the morality you're taught is sacred doesn't really apply in dealings with your moral inferiors? That you should love your neighbour, but show no respect for any but your own faith?

Please tell us how you learned that arrogant disrespect, if not from instruction within the faith that nurtured your morality. Please tell me why you feel that makes virtue better, and doesn't make injustice worse.
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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8/14/2016 4:26:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:

A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Thanks

Definitely Moral non-believer, because at least I wouldn't be harming anybody.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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8/14/2016 4:31:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:46:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
I hope all will be saved,
From What?
The wrath of the god you want us to worship? Are you for real?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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8/14/2016 4:33:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

Power does that stuff. And it has justified itself under the guise of religious faith, as well as scientific eugenics, and state atheism.

Some of the most profound people to impact the quality of human life for the better were devout religious people.

Norman Borlaug develop fast growing wheat. Said to be the man who saved a billion lives. Nobel Peace prize and other such awards. Said:

"Man's survival, from the time of Adam and Eve until the invention of agriculture, must have been precarious because of his inability to ensure his food supply."
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com...

"The recognition that hunger and social strife are linked is not new, for it is evidenced by the Old Testament passage, "...and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their King and their God. ..."

Edward Jenner came up with small pox vaccine. The expansion of his technique lead to the first disease officially eradicated by man. Said:

"I am not surprised that men are not thankful to me; but I wonder that they are not grateful to God for the good which he has made me the instrument of conveying to my fellow-creatures."

But honestly this list just goes on. Perhaps we should look at the great things Atheist have done.

The great amount of medical knowledge gained from Nazi scientist performing experiments on human people. Honestly what a great break. Because such experiments in the conditions to freeze a person alive could never ethically be done again.


It's no contest.

Power, debt and desperation is the real enemy. the people striving for power and encouraging scarcity of resources are of all religions and non-religions.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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8/14/2016 4:41:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 4:08:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 3:33:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:43:58 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Please talk us through how it's not your faith-based ignorance and contempt producing this shameful behaviour. What is it you'd like to blame instead?
hmm let's see, you blamed it for religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression

... worse.

For example, a person taught that only his faith is virtuous, and that only the blind and foolish reject it, might post this in contempt:
ha ha so you think if all religion was banned we would suddenly all love each other.... oh boy talk about blind..

Because in his mind, it doesn't matter what one atheist says. To him, all are the same, because he has been taught that all are the same.

And then, when he realises one didn't actually say that, he might have to lie and pretend it happened anyway -- because all atheists are the same aren't they? If an atheist didn't say it, he must at least have thought it. And then, when his lie was called, he might stick to it for pride. After all, one must appear proud and sinless before heathens, mustn't one?

That contempt, the dishonesty and pride have to come from somewhere, don't they, GoG?

Where do you think they came from?

Can you tell us, when was the first time someone vilified atheists in your hearing?

How old were you?

Was it clergy, or some trusted family member who told you how to feel and think about people who had committed no other offense than rejecting your beliefs on grounds of reason and conscience? That it was virtuous to adopt a posture of proud scorn whenever you met them? That the morality you're taught is sacred doesn't really apply in dealings with your moral inferiors? That you should love your neighbour, but show no respect for any but your own faith?

Please tell us how you learned that arrogant disrespect, if not from instruction within the faith that nurtured your morality. Please tell me why you feel that makes virtue better, and doesn't make injustice worse.

lol so you have changed your tune now, realising you made a stupid and rash comment about people of faith or religion you go on the attack about atheists...

all the time calling me arrogant yet stating your point as if it is iron clad and all religions and faiths are hateful murderers, you really are the strangest person ever, though i see this illness in many atheists...

have we decided yet if there have been more atheist murders than believers, or hateful atheists like you who spit nothing but hatred and abuse at any religion..

please take your time answering I would hate it if you did yourself any harm out of stress... waiting..............
graceofgod
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8/14/2016 4:42:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 4:31:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:46:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
I hope all will be saved,
From What?
The wrath of the god you want us to worship? Are you for real?

all will be saved from the consequences of the terrible decisions they have made in life and the punishment they deserve or are you another one who is too childish to understand actions have consequences...?
bulproof
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8/14/2016 4:47:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 4:42:47 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/14/2016 4:31:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:46:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
I hope all will be saved,
From What?
The wrath of the god you want us to worship? Are you for real?

all will be saved from the consequences of the terrible decisions they have made in life and the punishment they deserve or are you another one who is too childish to understand actions have consequences...?
You failed to answer my question, but what is the point of belief if "ALL WILL BE SAVED"?
Who supplied the non existent consequences? You people get so confused when trying to defend your dogma, don't you?
bigotry
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8/14/2016 4:47:36 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 3:42:54 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 3:38:46 PM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/14/2016 10:45:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:
A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Ape, religious faith makes cruelty, disrespect, injustice, tyranny, hypocrisy, intolerance and oppression so much worse, while not making kindness, respect, tolerance, dignity, accountability or ethics substantially better.

Bolshevism didnt?

Bigs, I understand that you accept my point, and now want to point to other bad thought not on Ape's list.

That would only be valid had I said religion was the worst of all human ideas.

I didn't, but thank you for acknowledging my point.

No I just find it funny that if you would list these things under religion and say "no contest" insinuating there was a superior in the options given and omit the other side of the coin. Your model atheistic government is bolshevism and it did do all of the things you listed right there. Furthermore when we are talking about religion, which one? Or are you attempting to lump them all into the same basket and say they share similar behavior derivatives despite them all teaching different things?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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8/14/2016 4:51:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 4:26:47 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 8/14/2016 6:41:01 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Would you rather:

A. Immoral believer
B. Moral non-believer

Thanks

Definitely Moral non-believer, because at least I wouldn't be harming anybody.

You are assuming his morals matched yours. Which atheism has no set of common principles or thought. So such an assumption would be pathetic.

What;s more likely is in the name of moral good for humanity the secularist would encourage the killing of the disabled and a eugenics program. And that's just the start of the harm such people advocate for and perform.

The whole tax payer funded legalization of abortion is a eugenics plan. The non-believers have been able to squeak loud enough and lobby hard enough that against the will of the majority of people, abortion was allowed.

But you don't consider that stuff "harm". No you operate on a different Moral scale and abortion is "good".

Just be open to the possibility that some other "Moral" Atheist might see killing you as the right side. like you see killing babies.