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Is 100% certainty ignorant?

ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human. I'm 100% certain my mother loves me. I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/14/2016 8:02:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human. I'm 100% certain my mother loves me. I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
These are facts, not opinions. The fact that fire burns, squares are not round, and you are human are objectively true. I am talking about opinions. Preferably religious opinions.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 8:10:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum.
Thank you, Tac. However I'd suggest that this is a thread -- the forum is 'Religion' (from the Latin for 'marketplace' -- a forum is a market of ideas.)

Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God?

What if the idea of God wasn't valid under any reasonable definition of knowledge? What would be ignored by dismissing it?

Put another way: does every word have an epistemologically valid meaning? If not, aren't there some ideas that can be dismissed simply because of how they are constructed, without further information?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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8/14/2016 8:16:04 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 8:02:16 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human. I'm 100% certain my mother loves me. I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
These are facts, not opinions. The fact that fire burns, squares are not round, and you are human are objectively true. I am talking about opinions. Preferably religious opinions.

I'm a 100% certain that my mother loves me.

Is that statement and opinion or informed conjecture?

Is it a fact that my mother loves me or not?
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/14/2016 8:18:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 8:10:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum.
Thank you, Tac. However I'd suggest that this is a thread -- the forum is 'Religion' (from the Latin for 'marketplace' -- a forum is a market of ideas.)
Oops. I'll remember that from now on.
Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God?

What if the idea of God wasn't valid under any reasonable definition of knowledge? What would be ignored by dismissing it?

Put another way: does every word have an epistemologically valid meaning? If not, aren't there some ideas that can be dismissed simply because of how they are constructed, without further information?
Sorry, I'm still not quite sure what you are saying.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/14/2016 8:22:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 8:16:04 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:02:16 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human. I'm 100% certain my mother loves me. I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
These are facts, not opinions. The fact that fire burns, squares are not round, and you are human are objectively true. I am talking about opinions. Preferably religious opinions.

I'm a 100% certain that my mother loves me.

Is that statement and opinion or informed conjecture?

Is it a fact that my mother loves me or not?
I left that one out because you can never truly know if your mother loves you. She can act that way and tell you that she does, but until you study her brain chemistry, you can't know for sure. It is unlikely, however for a mother to feel no love for her children, so it is a reasonable assumption that your mother loves you. Besides, we are off topic. I created this thread to talk about religion.
By the way, sorry I called it a forum and not a thread. I am still not very good with internet terminology.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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8/14/2016 8:35:25 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 8:22:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:16:04 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:02:16 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human. I'm 100% certain my mother loves me. I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
These are facts, not opinions. The fact that fire burns, squares are not round, and you are human are objectively true. I am talking about opinions. Preferably religious opinions.

I'm a 100% certain that my mother loves me.

Is that statement and opinion or informed conjecture?

Is it a fact that my mother loves me or not?
I left that one out because you can never truly know if your mother loves you. She can act that way and tell you that she does, but until you study her brain chemistry, you can't know for sure. It is unlikely, however for a mother to feel no love for her children, so it is a reasonable assumption that your mother loves you. Besides, we are off topic. I created this thread to talk about religion.
By the way, sorry I called it a forum and not a thread. I am still not very good with internet terminology.

In reality, in this universe, is it fact that my mother loves me. I won't even argue if love is brain chemistry crap.

Let's say it is True. Then the question is if my certainty is a valid inference.

From her actions and statements I say it is a reasonable conclusion to be certain of.

objective because anyone else looking at the observation of interactions between my mother and I would then see it matching a pattern of what is categorically called "loving interactions".

this is kind of like how reasonable conclusions are inductively discerned.

Why don't you just keep reading your atheist websites and without questioning deeming that junk "fact" "objective".

I notice Atheist rarely use the word "truth" or "truthful". Is it because you think "truth" is a subjective and relative judgement depending on the person's perspective?

yeah I think that's exactly what the majority of Atheist think.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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8/14/2016 8:50:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Experience testifies that there is some form of existence. You can be 100% sure that there is some form of existence.

God is not merely an opinion or a belief, God is a fact you can be 100% certain of. If there is some form of existence, it follows that there is Supreme Existence. It would not be possible for all these little realities to exist and interact with each other if there wasn't an Ultimate Reality tying it all together.

What is God? The Ultimate Reality and Supreme Existence. If you understand what the concept means, God is an undeniable fact.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 8:51:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 8:18:06 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:10:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum.
Thank you, Tac. However I'd suggest that this is a thread -- the forum is 'Religion' (from the Latin for 'marketplace' -- a forum is a market of ideas.)
Oops. I'll remember that from now on.
Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God?

What if the idea of God wasn't valid under any reasonable definition of knowledge? What would be ignored by dismissing it?

Put another way: does every word have an epistemologically valid meaning? If not, aren't there some ideas that can be dismissed simply because of how they are constructed, without further information?
Sorry, I'm still not quite sure what you are saying.

Well, there's veracity: the likelihood that a statement is accurate. And then there's validity: the property that a statement is meaningful and that the question of veracity reasonably applies.

Do you believe 'God exists' is meaningful? Is there some information we might gain in future that could confidently test the veracity of the proposition?

If so, what is it and how might we gain and verify that information?

If not, is it legitimate to dismiss the proposition as invalid -- i.e, not knowledge or uncertainty but simply a thought too incoherent to attach correctly to reality, and not to be reconsidered, whatever information we might gain?
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/14/2016 9:03:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 8:35:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:22:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:16:04 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:02:16 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human. I'm 100% certain my mother loves me. I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
These are facts, not opinions. The fact that fire burns, squares are not round, and you are human are objectively true. I am talking about opinions. Preferably religious opinions.

I'm a 100% certain that my mother loves me.

Is that statement and opinion or informed conjecture?

Is it a fact that my mother loves me or not?
I left that one out because you can never truly know if your mother loves you. She can act that way and tell you that she does, but until you study her brain chemistry, you can't know for sure. It is unlikely, however for a mother to feel no love for her children, so it is a reasonable assumption that your mother loves you. Besides, we are off topic. I created this thread to talk about religion.
By the way, sorry I called it a forum and not a thread. I am still not very good with internet terminology.

In reality, in this universe, is it fact that my mother loves me. I won't even argue if love is brain chemistry crap.

Let's say it is True. Then the question is if my certainty is a valid inference.

From her actions and statements I say it is a reasonable conclusion to be certain of.

objective because anyone else looking at the observation of interactions between my mother and I would then see it matching a pattern of what is categorically called "loving interactions".

this is kind of like how reasonable conclusions are inductively discerned.

Why don't you just keep reading your atheist websites and without questioning deeming that junk "fact" "objective".

I notice Atheist rarely use the word "truth" or "truthful". Is it because you think "truth" is a subjective and relative judgement depending on the person's perspective?

yeah I think that's exactly what the majority of Atheist think.

Can we get back on topic here? This has nothing to do with the original question. You can think whatever you want about atheists, but save it for another thread.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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8/14/2016 9:05:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 8:51:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:18:06 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:10:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum.
Thank you, Tac. However I'd suggest that this is a thread -- the forum is 'Religion' (from the Latin for 'marketplace' -- a forum is a market of ideas.)
Oops. I'll remember that from now on.
Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God?

What if the idea of God wasn't valid under any reasonable definition of knowledge? What would be ignored by dismissing it?

Put another way: does every word have an epistemologically valid meaning? If not, aren't there some ideas that can be dismissed simply because of how they are constructed, without further information?
Sorry, I'm still not quite sure what you are saying.

Well, there's veracity: the likelihood that a statement is accurate. And then there's validity: the property that a statement is meaningful and that the question of veracity reasonably applies.

Do you believe 'God exists' is meaningful? Is there some information we might gain in future that could confidently test the veracity of the proposition?

If so, what is it and how might we gain and verify that information?

If not, is it legitimate to dismiss the proposition as invalid -- i.e, not knowledge or uncertainty but simply a thought too incoherent to attach correctly to reality, and not to be reconsidered, whatever information we might gain?

In other words, you don't believe in what you can't know, and perceived utility is your god.

God means "The Ultimate Reality". It seems silly to make appeals to reality when you don't believe in God.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/14/2016 9:12:56 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 8:51:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:18:06 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:10:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum.
Thank you, Tac. However I'd suggest that this is a thread -- the forum is 'Religion' (from the Latin for 'marketplace' -- a forum is a market of ideas.)
Oops. I'll remember that from now on.
Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God?

What if the idea of God wasn't valid under any reasonable definition of knowledge? What would be ignored by dismissing it?

Put another way: does every word have an epistemologically valid meaning? If not, aren't there some ideas that can be dismissed simply because of how they are constructed, without further information?
Sorry, I'm still not quite sure what you are saying.

Well, there's veracity: the likelihood that a statement is accurate. And then there's validity: the property that a statement is meaningful and that the question of veracity reasonably applies.

Do you believe 'God exists' is meaningful? Is there some information we might gain in future that could confidently test the veracity of the proposition?

If so, what is it and how might we gain and verify that information?
I don't think that proof regarding the existence of God will ever be found.
If not, is it legitimate to dismiss the proposition as invalid -- i.e, not knowledge or uncertainty but simply a thought too incoherent to attach correctly to reality, and not to be reconsidered, whatever information we might gain?
Are you asking if the idea of God should be dismissed?
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/14/2016 9:18:34 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 8:50:39 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Experience testifies that there is some form of existence. You can be 100% sure that there is some form of existence.
Yes, I am 100% certain that I exist. That is a fact, not an opinion, and it has nothing to do with God's existence.
God is not merely an opinion or a belief, God is a fact you can be 100% certain of. If there is some form of existence, it follows that there is Supreme Existence. It would not be possible for all these little realities to exist and interact with each other if there wasn't an Ultimate Reality tying it all together.
Can you prove any of that?
What is God? The Ultimate Reality and Supreme Existence. If you understand what the concept means, God is an undeniable fact.

Then explain it to us. Prove that God's existence is fact. This is what I am talking about. Your mind is completely close to any opinion but your own, and you have convinced yourself that your opinion is fact.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/14/2016 9:23:37 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 9:12:56 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:51:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:18:06 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:10:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum.
Thank you, Tac. However I'd suggest that this is a thread -- the forum is 'Religion' (from the Latin for 'marketplace' -- a forum is a market of ideas.)
Oops. I'll remember that from now on.
Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God?

What if the idea of God wasn't valid under any reasonable definition of knowledge? What would be ignored by dismissing it?

Put another way: does every word have an epistemologically valid meaning? If not, aren't there some ideas that can be dismissed simply because of how they are constructed, without further information?
Sorry, I'm still not quite sure what you are saying.

Well, there's veracity: the likelihood that a statement is accurate. And then there's validity: the property that a statement is meaningful and that the question of veracity reasonably applies.

Do you believe 'God exists' is meaningful? Is there some information we might gain in future that could confidently test the veracity of the proposition?

If so, what is it and how might we gain and verify that information?
I don't think that proof regarding the existence of God will ever be found.
What does it mean ethically and epistemologically to claim knowledge of a proposition for which no proof can ever be found? Ethically and intellectually, what is a reasonable response to such a claim?

If not, is it legitimate to dismiss the proposition as invalid -- i.e, not knowledge or uncertainty but simply a thought too incoherent to attach correctly to reality, and not to be reconsidered, whatever information we might gain?
Are you asking if the idea of God should be dismissed?
Dismissed outright due to irreparable laziness, dishonesty, serial error, self-interest and conceit, yes.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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8/14/2016 9:48:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than.

Ignorant.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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8/15/2016 12:19:32 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ---------------------

No.
Axonly
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8/15/2016 12:35:14 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human
I'm not convinced.

I'm 100% certain my mother loves me.
Also not convinced.

I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
Meh!
Skyangel
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8/15/2016 1:34:18 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs?

No, being 100% certain about your beliefs is to know and understand something without doubting it. When you are educated about facts, those facts make you 100% certain about what you believe to be factual. eg, We are 100% certain that we were born and we are 100% certain we will die one day. We believe those things without a shadow of doubt.

Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct.

It is ignorant and immature to believe in myths and mythical characters.
Intelligent people are 100% certain that gods and other mythical characters are a result of human imagination.

To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

A willingness to accept different possibilities and opinions only gives one knowledge about differing possibilities and opinions. It still does not teach anyone which possibilities and opinions are logical and which are not.

A person can have an open mind and accept the fact that some people believe in mythical characters but once you gain knowledge and understanding that humans have created mythical characters, you end up being absolutely certain that such characters are imaginary.
Mhykiel
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8/15/2016 1:34:40 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 9:03:31 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:35:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:22:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:16:04 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:02:16 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human. I'm 100% certain my mother loves me. I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
These are facts, not opinions. The fact that fire burns, squares are not round, and you are human are objectively true. I am talking about opinions. Preferably religious opinions.

I'm a 100% certain that my mother loves me.

Is that statement and opinion or informed conjecture?

Is it a fact that my mother loves me or not?
I left that one out because you can never truly know if your mother loves you. She can act that way and tell you that she does, but until you study her brain chemistry, you can't know for sure. It is unlikely, however for a mother to feel no love for her children, so it is a reasonable assumption that your mother loves you. Besides, we are off topic. I created this thread to talk about religion.
By the way, sorry I called it a forum and not a thread. I am still not very good with internet terminology.

In reality, in this universe, is it fact that my mother loves me. I won't even argue if love is brain chemistry crap.

Let's say it is True. Then the question is if my certainty is a valid inference.

From her actions and statements I say it is a reasonable conclusion to be certain of.

objective because anyone else looking at the observation of interactions between my mother and I would then see it matching a pattern of what is categorically called "loving interactions".

this is kind of like how reasonable conclusions are inductively discerned.

Why don't you just keep reading your atheist websites and without questioning deeming that junk "fact" "objective".

I notice Atheist rarely use the word "truth" or "truthful". Is it because you think "truth" is a subjective and relative judgement depending on the person's perspective?

yeah I think that's exactly what the majority of Atheist think.

Can we get back on topic here? This has nothing to do with the original question. You can think whatever you want about atheists, but save it for another thread.

okay. No I think you are bias. You can be 100% certain about things, (well as certain as we can be certain of anything) and that doesn't make anyone ignorant.

Doubt is always present but it doesn't make someone ignorant when they accept a side despite the doubt. That's called logical or reasonable justification.
Mhykiel
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8/15/2016 1:41:49 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 9:48:19 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than.

Ignorant.

The only logical end to Atheism is epistemological nihilism. Doubt is present in everything. 100% certain is only as certain as we can be about anything. Having reason to accept something is called justifications.

But this is just normal atheist jargon isn't it. People who accept things you don;t are ignorant and delusional. Screw any real reasons they might have to accept a conception in spite of doubt.

I may be ignorant for not knowing anything without doubt. But you are an arrogant fool to think all you accept is unchallenged.
Skyangel
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8/15/2016 1:48:40 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct?

The same as you can be 100% certain that you will die one day but still have an open mind to listen to anyone who wishes to prove that fact to be false or convince you that you will not die at all.
It seems that many people who are 100% certain that they will die one day also believe they will live forever.
In the end it all depends on human perspective, perception and the way individual minds work to make sense of what outwardly appears to be illogical or contradictory.
Mhykiel
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8/15/2016 1:52:04 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 12:35:14 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs?

No. because beliefs, defined as the acceptance of things as true (source dictionary), can be derived at by reason despite doubt to the contrary. That's not ignorance.

Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God?

Why do Atheist love to swim in a muddy well of agnosticism?

My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct.

So then you admit so many atheist on this site are ignorant.

To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions.

Open but not enough to lose your marbles. Why do you as an atheist have a problem being open to a creator?

What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct?

I would be open to atheism if the group wasn't full of redneck mentality passing themselves off as some high brow intellectuals.

I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human
I'm not convinced.

I'm 100% certain my mother loves me.
Also not convinced.

I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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8/15/2016 2:01:16 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Excuse me Tactix, but how can one have an "open mind" when their ideology is based on materialism, as far as I have WITNESSED, atheists are as far from an open mind as an antelope is from a lion lol. There is no "you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. "....where do you get that from? WE are the one's trying to open your minds and trying to get you to be willing to accept different possibilities...what a joke! are you trying to be contradictory or what???
SpiritandTruth
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8/15/2016 2:07:44 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 9:18:34 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:50:39 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Experience testifies that there is some form of existence. You can be 100% sure that there is some form of existence.
Yes, I am 100% certain that I exist. That is a fact, not an opinion, and it has nothing to do with God's existence.
God is not merely an opinion or a belief, God is a fact you can be 100% certain of. If there is some form of existence, it follows that there is Supreme Existence. It would not be possible for all these little realities to exist and interact with each other if there wasn't an Ultimate Reality tying it all together.
Can you prove any of that?
What is God? The Ultimate Reality and Supreme Existence. If you understand what the concept means, God is an undeniable fact.

Then explain it to us. Prove that God's existence is fact. This is what I am talking about. Your mind is completely close to any opinion but your own, and you have convinced yourself that your opinion is fact.

It should be obvious if you are honest that things don't always happen the way you expect them to. You are not God, your reality is not The Ultimate Reality. God is not hard to accept.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Axonly
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8/15/2016 2:58:19 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 1:52:04 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:35:14 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs?

No. because beliefs, defined as the acceptance of things as true (source dictionary), can be derived at by reason despite doubt to the contrary. That's not ignorance.

Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God?

Why do Atheist love to swim in a muddy well of agnosticism?

My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct.

So then you admit so many atheist on this site are ignorant.

To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions.

Open but not enough to lose your marbles. Why do you as an atheist have a problem being open to a creator?

What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct?

I would be open to atheism if the group wasn't full of redneck mentality passing themselves off as some high brow intellectuals.

I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human
I'm not convinced.

I'm 100% certain my mother loves me.
Also not convinced.

I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.

I think you meant to reply to someone else.

What was that about being intelligent btw?
Meh!
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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8/15/2016 5:54:38 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 2:01:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Excuse me Tactix, but how can one have an "open mind" when their ideology is based on materialism, as far as I have WITNESSED, atheists are as far from an open mind as an antelope is from a lion lol. There is no "you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. "....where do you get that from? WE are the one's trying to open your minds and trying to get you to be willing to accept different possibilities...what a joke! are you trying to be contradictory or what???
And you can't understand why we don't believe in your fairies and ghosts, we must be close minded. bahahahahahahaha.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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8/16/2016 12:06:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 1:34:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 9:03:31 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:35:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:22:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:16:04 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:02:16 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:52:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
---------------------- PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST ON THE FORUM ----------------------

First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum. I hope that you find the discussion interesting and stimulating. I would ask that all that post in this forum are respectful and polite to others in the forum. No insults or name calling please. I ask this because I have seen many an interesting debate be ruined by insults, and I do not want that to happen to this forum. I want this to be a place where people can come to exchange ideas and opinions freely. Thank you.

Now, on to the discussion. My question is: Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God? My opinion is that yes, it is ignorant to believe, with 100% certainty, that your beliefs are correct. To gain knowledge, you must have an open mind and be willing to accept different possibilities and opinions. What room is there new opinions and ideas, when you are 100% certain that your opinion is correct? How can you have an open mind if you are convinced that your beliefs and your beliefs only are correct? I welcome people from any religious or non-religious background to join in. If you have an opinion on the matter, I would love to hear it.

Call me ignorant than. I'm 100% certain there are no round squares. I'm 100% certain I'm human. I'm 100% certain my mother loves me. I'm 100% certain fire burns me.

You think those are opinions? You don't seem to know the difference between an opinion and a reasonable conjecture.
These are facts, not opinions. The fact that fire burns, squares are not round, and you are human are objectively true. I am talking about opinions. Preferably religious opinions.

I'm a 100% certain that my mother loves me.

Is that statement and opinion or informed conjecture?

Is it a fact that my mother loves me or not?
I left that one out because you can never truly know if your mother loves you. She can act that way and tell you that she does, but until you study her brain chemistry, you can't know for sure. It is unlikely, however for a mother to feel no love for her children, so it is a reasonable assumption that your mother loves you. Besides, we are off topic. I created this thread to talk about religion.
By the way, sorry I called it a forum and not a thread. I am still not very good with internet terminology.

In reality, in this universe, is it fact that my mother loves me. I won't even argue if love is brain chemistry crap.

Let's say it is True. Then the question is if my certainty is a valid inference.

From her actions and statements I say it is a reasonable conclusion to be certain of.

objective because anyone else looking at the observation of interactions between my mother and I would then see it matching a pattern of what is categorically called "loving interactions".

this is kind of like how reasonable conclusions are inductively discerned.

Why don't you just keep reading your atheist websites and without questioning deeming that junk "fact" "objective".

I notice Atheist rarely use the word "truth" or "truthful". Is it because you think "truth" is a subjective and relative judgement depending on the person's perspective?

yeah I think that's exactly what the majority of Atheist think.

Can we get back on topic here? This has nothing to do with the original question. You can think whatever you want about atheists, but save it for another thread.

okay. No I think you are bias. You can be 100% certain about things, (well as certain as we can be certain of anything) and that doesn't make anyone ignorant.
How is it not ignorant to believe with 100% certainty that your opinions and only your opinions are correct? We can be certain about facts, like the Earth is spherical. Opinions, however, like God exists, can't be proven, so how can you be certain that yours are correct. Also, what makes me biased?
Doubt is always present but it doesn't make someone ignorant when they accept a side despite the doubt. That's called logical or reasonable justification.
You can have an opinion despite doubt and believe that it is correct, but to be 100% certain that your opinion is correct is closed minded. For example, I do not believe that God exists. There is doubt regarding the existence or nonexistence of God, but I have my opinion, and that is fine. I do not, however claim that I am 100% certain that there is no God. I accept that the existence of a God is a possibility, however remote. If I were given objective proof for God's existence backed by science, I would accept that God exists. Of course, I would do a little research and thought myself. To say that I am absolutely certain that there is no God would make me closed minded and ignorant. This technically makes me an agnostic atheist, not an atheist. It is just easier to shorten it to atheist and avoid a lengthy explanation.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
ANON_TacTiX
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8/16/2016 12:07:06 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 9:05:10 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:51:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:18:06 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 8/14/2016 8:10:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/14/2016 7:26:58 PM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
First, I would like to welcome everyone to this forum.
Thank you, Tac. However I'd suggest that this is a thread -- the forum is 'Religion' (from the Latin for 'marketplace' -- a forum is a market of ideas.)
Oops. I'll remember that from now on.
Is it ignorant to be 100% certain about your beliefs? Is it ignorant to believe, with absolute certainty, that there is or is not a God?

What if the idea of God wasn't valid under any reasonable definition of knowledge? What would be ignored by dismissing it?

Put another way: does every word have an epistemologically valid meaning? If not, aren't there some ideas that can be dismissed simply because of how they are constructed, without further information?
Sorry, I'm still not quite sure what you are saying.

Well, there's veracity: the likelihood that a statement is accurate. And then there's validity: the property that a statement is meaningful and that the question of veracity reasonably applies.

Do you believe 'God exists' is meaningful? Is there some information we might gain in future that could confidently test the veracity of the proposition?

If so, what is it and how might we gain and verify that information?

If not, is it legitimate to dismiss the proposition as invalid -- i.e, not knowledge or uncertainty but simply a thought too incoherent to attach correctly to reality, and not to be reconsidered, whatever information we might gain?

In other words, you don't believe in what you can't know, and perceived utility is your god.

God means "The Ultimate Reality".
As defined by religion.
It seems silly to make appeals to reality when you don't believe in God.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
keithprosser
Posts: 2,019
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8/16/2016 12:13:45 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
I think ANON might be ignorant of what ignorant means. I think he might have meant 'arrogant'?