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Catholic Democrats

Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
Willows
Posts: 2,056
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8/15/2016 4:37:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.
Whether Democratic or Republican I'm sure that you will find that neither party is going to shape their policies around one interest group. In any democracy, policy and laws are made with all people in mind.
Fly
Posts: 2,045
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8/15/2016 4:43:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

It is rather presumptuous of you to assume that Catholics who vote differently from you are "voting against their conscience."
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
dee-em
Posts: 6,472
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8/15/2016 4:43:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

You are confusing people of the Catholic faith with official Catholic doctrine. The Catholic Church has always lagged well behind its congregation in terms of changing moral standards.

Btw:

Overtaxing producers and redistribution? Where is that in the Catholic canon?

Anti law and order? Is that really a Democrat policy?

Nearly every position? I suspect you mean only the positions which confirm your bias.
Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/15/2016 4:44:51 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:37:03 PM, Willows wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.
Whether Democratic or Republican I'm sure that you will find that neither party is going to shape their policies around one interest group. In any democracy, policy and laws are made with all people in mind.

Fair enough. What I am suggesting is that Catholicism and the Democratic party are more dissonant than are Catholicism and the Republican party.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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8/15/2016 4:57:07 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:44:51 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:37:03 PM, Willows wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.
Whether Democratic or Republican I'm sure that you will find that neither party is going to shape their policies around one interest group. In any democracy, policy and laws are made with all people in mind.

Fair enough. What I am suggesting is that Catholicism and the Democratic party are more dissonant than are Catholicism and the Republican party.
You claim that catholics prefer to help the uber rich? Ok
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Geogeer
Posts: 4,263
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8/15/2016 11:05:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

Not being American I might be wrong on this...

However, my understanding is that the democratic party was considered the defacto party for the Irish and Catholics when they were immigrating to the US. Once the party adopted a Pro Choice policy it lost some Catholics, but there is the I vote as my parents voted mentality that causes many to remain in the Democrat camp. So long as they appear friendly towards Catholics, it is enough for some.
Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/15/2016 11:31:01 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 11:05:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

Not being American I might be wrong on this...

However, my understanding is that the democratic party was considered the defacto party for the Irish and Catholics when they were immigrating to the US. Once the party adopted a Pro Choice policy it lost some Catholics, but there is the I vote as my parents voted mentality that causes many to remain in the Democrat camp. So long as they appear friendly towards Catholics, it is enough for some.

That may well be the best explanation. But that party's platform has been opposed to Catholicism for many decades. It is the party of the KKK, it is the party of wealth redistribution, etc. Catholicism is opposed to these.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,263
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8/15/2016 11:35:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 11:31:01 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/15/2016 11:05:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

Not being American I might be wrong on this...

However, my understanding is that the democratic party was considered the defacto party for the Irish and Catholics when they were immigrating to the US. Once the party adopted a Pro Choice policy it lost some Catholics, but there is the I vote as my parents voted mentality that causes many to remain in the Democrat camp. So long as they appear friendly towards Catholics, it is enough for some.

That may well be the best explanation. But that party's platform has been opposed to Catholicism for many decades. It is the party of the KKK, it is the party of wealth redistribution, etc. Catholicism is opposed to these.

True, but it was the party of labour unions, for which immigrants relied on for wages. Additionally, the sexual revolution was when many Catholics stopped adhering to Catholic tenants in general. As such these people preferred to stick to their political affiliations rather than their faith. Many justify it in their minds by denying the social kingship of Christ and instead saying that a secular society requires these freedoms.
Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/15/2016 11:47:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 11:35:31 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/15/2016 11:31:01 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/15/2016 11:05:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

Not being American I might be wrong on this...

However, my understanding is that the democratic party was considered the defacto party for the Irish and Catholics when they were immigrating to the US. Once the party adopted a Pro Choice policy it lost some Catholics, but there is the I vote as my parents voted mentality that causes many to remain in the Democrat camp. So long as they appear friendly towards Catholics, it is enough for some.

That may well be the best explanation. But that party's platform has been opposed to Catholicism for many decades. It is the party of the KKK, it is the party of wealth redistribution, etc. Catholicism is opposed to these.

True, but it was the party of labour unions, for which immigrants relied on for wages. Additionally, the sexual revolution was when many Catholics stopped adhering to Catholic tenants in general. As such these people preferred to stick to their political affiliations rather than their faith. Many justify it in their minds by denying the social kingship of Christ and instead saying that a secular society requires these freedoms.

Agreed
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/16/2016 1:50:40 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

Thank you for raising that, Throwby. I hadn't thought of it before, but I suppose you're right. We find something similar in Australia, and perhaps for similar demographic reasons: the political party of the working class has strong Roman Catholic associations, but also progressive leanings.

More with the insights of my own country in mind, is it possible that official Church doctrine is contrary to the thought of a large number of parishioners paying for and supporting the Church, its clergy, community and ceremonies? So that rather than parishioners being out of step with the Church, it's vice-versa?
Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/16/2016 2:16:12 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 1:50:40 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

Thank you for raising that, Throwby. I hadn't thought of it before, but I suppose you're right. We find something similar in Australia, and perhaps for similar demographic reasons: the political party of the working class has strong Roman Catholic associations, but also progressive leanings.

More with the insights of my own country in mind, is it possible that official Church doctrine is contrary to the thought of a large number of parishioners paying for and supporting the Church, its clergy, community and ceremonies? So that rather than parishioners being out of step with the Church, it's vice-versa?

That may be. However, a sincere Catholic ought to be in union with Catholic teaching.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/16/2016 2:31:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:16:12 AM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/16/2016 1:50:40 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

Thank you for raising that, Throwby. I hadn't thought of it before, but I suppose you're right. We find something similar in Australia, and perhaps for similar demographic reasons: the political party of the working class has strong Roman Catholic associations, but also progressive leanings.

More with the insights of my own country in mind, is it possible that official Church doctrine is contrary to the thought of a large number of parishioners paying for and supporting the Church, its clergy, community and ceremonies? So that rather than parishioners being out of step with the Church, it's vice-versa?

That may be. However, a sincere Catholic ought to be in union with Catholic teaching.

So you'd like all dissenters from the full spectrum of Catholic doctrine to stop paying into the church, T? All the Catholics unashamedly using contraception, all the young Brazilian women having unconfessed anal sex to preserve their premarital virginity, all the Catholic schoolgirls having unconfessed oral sex because they think it's not really sex, every modern Catholic who doesn't really believe in transmutation but goes along anyway, the Catholics who support abortion, who switched churches for a civic divorce, who don't really believe the theocracy knows what it's talking about but don't wish to be rude, all the actively gay parishioners and priests, all the Catholics who prefer to confess their sins through prayer rather than entrusting them to a priest they don't fully respect, you'd like them all to switch to High Anglicanism, say?

And do you think the Church would ever purge its parishes like that? [And if it won't, who are you to say it should? ;)]
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
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8/16/2016 4:13:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 12:58:48 PM, Throwback wrote:
The Democratic Party (US) espouses beliefs and promotes an agenda which is contrary to Catholicism. From overtaxing producers and redistribution, to homosexual marriage, to anti law and order, to abortion, nearly every position taken is in opposition to Catholicism.

And yet, a large number of politicians who claim to be Catholic are very left leaning Democrats. More Catholics vote Democratic than Republican. According to Pew Research Center, polling from the most recent presidential election in 2012, 37% of Catholics identify as Republican, while 44% identify as Democrat, and 19% independent. http://www.pewresearch.org...

As a Catholic I find this practice of other Catholics voting against their conscience both strange and interesting.

Obviously, they're not voting against their conscience...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Omniverse
Posts: 973
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8/16/2016 8:48:03 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 11:31:01 PM, Throwback wrote:

That may well be the best explanation. But that party's platform has been opposed to Catholicism for many decades. It is the party of the KKK, it is the party of wealth redistribution, etc. Catholicism is opposed to these.

Catholicism opposes wealth distribution?
That would certainly explain a lot about the Vatican.