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Considering an "Unchanging" God

Chaosism
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8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.
willbedone
Posts: 127
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8/15/2016 3:35:56 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all. : :

What won't change is God's plan for the characters in his program. No one knows who God is or where he exists but he does reveal who we are and how he created us through the technology that he used to create his program in which we are all involved.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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8/15/2016 3:44:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:35:56 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all. : :

What won't change is God's plan for the characters in his program. No one knows who God is or where he exists but he does reveal who we are and how he created us through the technology that he used to create his program in which we are all involved.

Hi, Brad!

Why do you say that God's plan won't change? Is God* literally incapable of changing his mind?

*Since "No one knows who God is or where he exists", isn't it possible that God is just some 8-year-old girl that's using an advanced universe-simulation program that we're all aspects of?
willbedone
Posts: 127
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8/15/2016 3:52:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:44:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:35:56 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all. : :

What won't change is God's plan for the characters in his program. No one knows who God is or where he exists but he does reveal who we are and how he created us through the technology that he used to create his program in which we are all involved.

Hi, Brad!

Why do you say that God's plan won't change? Is God* literally incapable of changing his mind?

God, our Creator, created a simulation program that will run forever with technology called the Word of God. It cannot be changed or stopped. It is called Eternal Life.

*Since "No one knows who God is or where he exists", isn't it possible that God is just some 8-year-old girl that's using an advanced universe-simulation program that we're all aspects of?: :

It could be. We have no idea who our Creator is or what it is. All our Creator revealed to me was the technology called the Word, which is what he used to speak his simulation program into existence. This technology plays out the stored information as frequencies ( vibrations ) and this is how we experience life. It builds our consciousness and senses that give us life experiences in a visible world.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,137
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8/15/2016 3:59:07 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Hmmm, that's a good question. To me, 'unchanging' refers to some sort of absolute standard by which this being acts and guides human interactions. This standard might manifest differently in different situations, but should never contradict itself. I'm not aware of any claimed deity consistently insisting on actions which harm no one, or which do not cause harm unnecessarily.

As far as free will, I don't think having an absolute standard necessarily disallows free will, but as I mentioned before, I don't think any claimed being has ever acted by an absolute standard (at least not a benevolent one) and this could be inline with a free will.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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8/15/2016 4:01:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:52:29 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:44:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:35:56 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all. : :

What won't change is God's plan for the characters in his program. No one knows who God is or where he exists but he does reveal who we are and how he created us through the technology that he used to create his program in which we are all involved.

Hi, Brad!

Why do you say that God's plan won't change? Is God* literally incapable of changing his mind?

God, our Creator, created a simulation program that will run forever with technology called the Word of God. It cannot be changed or stopped. It is called Eternal Life.

I don't think I have to tell you that this is incredibly assertive and unprovable. So, how is it that God is able to create a program but is then literally incapable of modifying it in any way? Since you claim that God speaks though you, is God not intervening in the simulation in order to do so?

*Since "No one knows who God is or where he exists", isn't it possible that God is just some 8-year-old girl that's using an advanced universe-simulation program that we're all aspects of?: :

It could be. We have no idea who our Creator is or what it is. All our Creator revealed to me was the technology called the Word, which is what he used to speak his simulation program into existence. This technology plays out the stored information as frequencies ( vibrations ) and this is how we experience life. It builds our consciousness and senses that give us life experiences in a visible world.

Right, so the nature of this God is entirely unknown, and all that has been revealed could very well be mistaken or a direct lie. Correct?
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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8/15/2016 4:01:44 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot.
This is obviously a weak analogy fallacy as robot implies knowledge put into an artificial device where the wisdom of God would in no way be predictable, stale, uneventful, or relatable at all levels.
I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". :::: So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed?
If the wisdom of the God is absolute and beyond the intellect of the one who has his attention then no human could possibly know what an interaction with the God would entail.
the Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?
Free will is only applicable in a dualists sense. If there is a God then there is a body-brain experience and a soul experience. Free will might be akin to the following scenario.
Imagine coming to a place where there are twenty different roads to chose to walk down. In Gods view of what is to be gained there is a specific spiritual lesson and no matter what road is chosen the spiritual lesson will be learned. On the other hand since the one chosing isn't aware of the spiritual lesson to be learned they perceive a road as an experience, there being twenty different "road experiences",

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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8/15/2016 4:12:42 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:52:29 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:44:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:35:56 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all. : :

What won't change is God's plan for the characters in his program. No one knows who God is or where he exists but he does reveal who we are and how he created us through the technology that he used to create his program in which we are all involved.

Hi, Brad!

Why do you say that God's plan won't change? Is God* literally incapable of changing his mind?

God, our Creator, created a simulation program that will run forever with technology called the Word of God. It cannot be changed or stopped. It is called Eternal Life.

*Since "No one knows who God is or where he exists", isn't it possible that God is just some 8-year-old girl that's using an advanced universe-simulation program that we're all aspects of?: :

It could be. We have no idea who our Creator is or what it is. All our Creator revealed to me was the technology called the Word, which is what he used to speak his simulation program into existence. This technology plays out the stored information as frequencies ( vibrations ) and this is how we experience life. It builds our consciousness and senses that give us life experiences in a visible world.

You're doin' good BoG
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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8/15/2016 4:15:52 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:12:42 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:52:29 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:44:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:35:56 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all. : :

What won't change is God's plan for the characters in his program. No one knows who God is or where he exists but he does reveal who we are and how he created us through the technology that he used to create his program in which we are all involved.

Hi, Brad!

Why do you say that God's plan won't change? Is God* literally incapable of changing his mind?

God, our Creator, created a simulation program that will run forever with technology called the Word of God. It cannot be changed or stopped. It is called Eternal Life.

*Since "No one knows who God is or where he exists", isn't it possible that God is just some 8-year-old girl that's using an advanced universe-simulation program that we're all aspects of?: :

It could be. We have no idea who our Creator is or what it is. All our Creator revealed to me was the technology called the Word, which is what he used to speak his simulation program into existence. This technology plays out the stored information as frequencies ( vibrations ) and this is how we experience life. It builds our consciousness and senses that give us life experiences in a visible world.

You're doin' good BoG

Havn't Microsoft copywrited Word?
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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8/15/2016 4:17:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:59:07 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Hmmm, that's a good question. To me, 'unchanging' refers to some sort of absolute standard by which this being acts and guides human interactions. This standard might manifest differently in different situations, but should never contradict itself. I'm not aware of any claimed deity consistently insisting on actions which harm no one, or which do not cause harm unnecessarily.

Since this notion appears to be quite ambiguous and undefined, we could speculate on the details all day. The reason I posed this question is that I find that this introduces a strong capability of rationalization in order to preserve the identity of God. Essentially, God is personal (e.g. loving and concerned) or impersonal (e.g. bound to His law) as convenient. For example:

God does love you and wants you to exist in Heaven [personal] but if you don't accept Jesus as your Savior, then you won't be saved from your Sin [impersonal].

What's happing here is pretty obvious - God's necessary adherence to a fixed system is being used to extract Him from the contradiction between a God who wants to save you and a God who doesn't save you by inventing an incapability. I call it "impersonal" because it effectively negates the personal aspects of God to posit something akin to, "that's just the way it is".

As far as free will, I don't think having an absolute standard necessarily disallows free will, but as I mentioned before, I don't think any claimed being has ever acted by an absolute standard (at least not a benevolent one) and this could be inline with a free will.

This was more of a side-thought. I suppose that depends on the definition of free will, though. I've found that "the ability to have done otherwise" works well. According to this definition, if an absolute, governing standard exists, then free will does not.
willbedone
Posts: 127
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8/15/2016 4:18:44 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:01:12 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:52:29 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:44:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:35:56 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all. : :

What won't change is God's plan for the characters in his program. No one knows who God is or where he exists but he does reveal who we are and how he created us through the technology that he used to create his program in which we are all involved.

Hi, Brad!

Why do you say that God's plan won't change? Is God* literally incapable of changing his mind?

God, our Creator, created a simulation program that will run forever with technology called the Word of God. It cannot be changed or stopped. It is called Eternal Life.

I don't think I have to tell you that this is incredibly assertive and unprovable. So, how is it that God is able to create a program but is then literally incapable of modifying it in any way? Since you claim that God speaks though you, is God not intervening in the simulation in order to do so?

The first part of his program is what we're experiencing right now but it will end very soon because he has finally revealed to me what the voice of God really is. I have known the voice of God for over 36 years now but I never knew exactly what it was or how it was able to force my body to the ground, comfort me with spoken words, force me to obey it's commands and finally get me to start writing and speaking every word that it put in my mind which is how I learned everything I know about God's plan for the future. The voice of God also gave me visions, dreams and spoken analogies to write down along with many thoughts from other people who came to me to share those thoughts that helped me understand that the voice of God is technology similar to the voice recognition software that it taught us to build this past few years. IBM's Watson is a good example of man's servant whereas God's servant is called the Word or voice of God. Except God's technology gives life to all the characters in his program as it takes stored information and processes that information into each created character with a consciousness and senses to experience a visible world.

*Since "No one knows who God is or where he exists", isn't it possible that God is just some 8-year-old girl that's using an advanced universe-simulation program that we're all aspects of?: :

It could be. We have no idea who our Creator is or what it is. All our Creator revealed to me was the technology called the Word, which is what he used to speak his simulation program into existence. This technology plays out the stored information as frequencies ( vibrations ) and this is how we experience life. It builds our consciousness and senses that give us life experiences in a visible world.

Right, so the nature of this God is entirely unknown, and all that has been revealed could very well be mistaken or a direct lie. Correct? : :

Any information about our Creator was written in the biblical prophecies by former characters called prophets. Here's a few;

Deuteronomy 6
4: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD;
5: and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

Isaiah 40
28: Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary, his understanding is unsearchable.

Isaiah 44
24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --

Isaiah 45
5: I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me,
6: that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought; who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth -- the LORD, the God of hosts, is his name!

Hosea 13
4: I am the LORD your God from the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought;

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Deuteronomy 32
39: "`See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
willbedone
Posts: 127
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8/15/2016 4:23:02 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:12:42 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:52:29 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:44:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:35:56 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all. : :

What won't change is God's plan for the characters in his program. No one knows who God is or where he exists but he does reveal who we are and how he created us through the technology that he used to create his program in which we are all involved.

Hi, Brad!

Why do you say that God's plan won't change? Is God* literally incapable of changing his mind?

God, our Creator, created a simulation program that will run forever with technology called the Word of God. It cannot be changed or stopped. It is called Eternal Life.

*Since "No one knows who God is or where he exists", isn't it possible that God is just some 8-year-old girl that's using an advanced universe-simulation program that we're all aspects of?: :

It could be. We have no idea who our Creator is or what it is. All our Creator revealed to me was the technology called the Word, which is what he used to speak his simulation program into existence. This technology plays out the stored information as frequencies ( vibrations ) and this is how we experience life. It builds our consciousness and senses that give us life experiences in a visible world.

You're doin' good BoG : :

Thank you. The Christian false deities can't teach you anything because they're only imaginary gods that they get in their minds while reading the Bible. They have no idea that they're the religious heathens who would reject the knowledge that us saints preach to them. They hate the idea that their Jesus was only an imaginary god in their minds. All I have to do is ask them what their god Jesus looks like. Once they begin to describe his looks, I know they're totally deceived.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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8/15/2016 4:26:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:01:44 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot.
This is obviously a weak analogy fallacy as robot implies knowledge put into an artificial device where the wisdom of God would in no way be predictable, stale, uneventful, or relatable at all levels.

Well, since this is inquisitive rather than assertive, I don't see how a fallacy is applicable. I don't really see relevance in the rest of this response, either.

I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". :::: So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God's core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed?
If the wisdom of the God is absolute and beyond the intellect of the one who has his attention then no human could possibly know what an interaction with the God would entail.

OK, but this isn't an answer to the question. I understand the skeptical attitude and I'm inclined to agree, but this was directed towards people that held the belief that God was unchanging.

the Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?
Free will is only applicable in a dualists sense. If there is a God then there is a body-brain experience and a soul experience. Free will might be akin to the following scenario.

So, am I understanding correctly that souls are not subject to free will? And would you hold a different meaning for "free will" than "the ability to have done otherwise"?

Imagine coming to a place where there are twenty different roads to chose to walk down. In Gods view of what is to be gained there is a specific spiritual lesson and no matter what road is chosen the spiritual lesson will be learned. On the other hand since the one chosing isn't aware of the spiritual lesson to be learned they perceive a road as an experience, there being twenty different "road experiences",
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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8/15/2016 4:33:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:18:44 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:01:12 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:52:29 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:44:30 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:35:56 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all. : :

What won't change is God's plan for the characters in his program. No one knows who God is or where he exists but he does reveal who we are and how he created us through the technology that he used to create his program in which we are all involved.

Hi, Brad!

Why do you say that God's plan won't change? Is God* literally incapable of changing his mind?

God, our Creator, created a simulation program that will run forever with technology called the Word of God. It cannot be changed or stopped. It is called Eternal Life.

I don't think I have to tell you that this is incredibly assertive and unprovable. So, how is it that God is able to create a program but is then literally incapable of modifying it in any way? Since you claim that God speaks though you, is God not intervening in the simulation in order to do so?

The first part of his program is what we're experiencing right now... <snipped, but not ignored>

Yes, I believe you've [mostly] explained this to me in the past, but this doesn't at all address the questions I posed. To reiterate:

How is it that God is able to create a program but is then literally incapable of modifying it in any way?

Since you claim that God speaks though you, is God not intervening in the simulation in order to do so?

*Since "No one knows who God is or where he exists", isn't it possible that God is just some 8-year-old girl that's using an advanced universe-simulation program that we're all aspects of?: :

It could be. We have no idea who our Creator is or what it is. All our Creator revealed to me was the technology called the Word, which is what he used to speak his simulation program into existence. This technology plays out the stored information as frequencies ( vibrations ) and this is how we experience life. It builds our consciousness and senses that give us life experiences in a visible world.

Right, so the nature of this God is entirely unknown, and all that has been revealed could very well be mistaken or a direct lie. Correct? : :

Any information about our Creator was written in the biblical prophecies by former characters called prophets. Here's a few;

Deuteronomy 6
<versus snipped, but not ignored>

But that doesn't address the issue, Brad. Since you admittedly don't know the nature of God, it isn't impossible that those verses represent lies or are otherwise mistaken. Do you disagree and say that God cannot lie or be mistaken?
matt8800
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8/15/2016 4:37:34 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Another good question is, if God will is already determined, why pray? Isnt God's will always the best possible option? Is praying going to change his mind? If it does change his mind, does that mean his previous plans were not the best option? If he does not change his mind, why ask him for anything?
Skepticalone
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8/15/2016 4:48:09 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:17:40 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:59:07 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Hmmm, that's a good question. To me, 'unchanging' refers to some sort of absolute standard by which this being acts and guides human interactions. This standard might manifest differently in different situations, but should never contradict itself. I'm not aware of any claimed deity consistently insisting on actions which harm no one, or which do not cause harm unnecessarily.

Since this notion appears to be quite ambiguous and undefined, we could speculate on the details all day. The reason I posed this question is that I find that this introduces a strong capability of rationalization in order to preserve the identity of God. Essentially, God is personal (e.g. loving and concerned) or impersonal (e.g. bound to His law) as convenient. For example:

God does love you and wants you to exist in Heaven [personal] but if you don't accept Jesus as your Savior, then you won't be saved from your Sin [impersonal].

What's happing here is pretty obvious - God's necessary adherence to a fixed system is being used to extract Him from the contradiction between a God who wants to save you and a God who doesn't save you by inventing an incapability. I call it "impersonal" because it effectively negates the personal aspects of God to posit something akin to, "that's just the way it is".

I agree "unchanging" is not very well defined. I was trying to define it a little better and in a way in which God was not expected to to be a robot. Regardless, if unchanging is meant to refer to a standard a god chooses to adhere to, this standard doesn't seem to be a loving, merciful, or benevolent standard..at least not where the is an eternal punishment involved, but that doesn't mean god is not unchanging. He could just be an arse...an unchanging arse.

As far as free will, I don't think having an absolute standard necessarily disallows free will, but as I mentioned before, I don't think any claimed being has ever acted by an absolute standard (at least not a benevolent one) and this could be inline with a free will.

This was more of a side-thought. I suppose that depends on the definition of free will, though. I've found that "the ability to have done otherwise" works well. According to this definition, if an absolute, governing standard exists, then free will does not.

I'm not sure if that is accurate. I can imagine human laws typically utilizing a specific standard (harm is bad), but that doesn't mean there is not a choice to do otherwise or the ability to hone laws to better achieve this standard, right?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Chaosism
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8/15/2016 4:48:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:37:34 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Another good question is, if God will is already determined, why pray? Isnt God's will always the best possible option? Is praying going to change his mind? If it does change his mind, does that mean his previous plans were not the best option? If he does not change his mind, why ask him for anything?

Right. This is certainly one facet of this issue, but I didn't want to branch out too much with the opening questions. I was (am) hoping for peoples' opinion on what "unchanging" really means, first.
Chaosism
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8/15/2016 4:58:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:48:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:17:40 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:59:07 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Hmmm, that's a good question. To me, 'unchanging' refers to some sort of absolute standard by which this being acts and guides human interactions. This standard might manifest differently in different situations, but should never contradict itself. I'm not aware of any claimed deity consistently insisting on actions which harm no one, or which do not cause harm unnecessarily.

Since this notion appears to be quite ambiguous and undefined, we could speculate on the details all day. The reason I posed this question is that I find that this introduces a strong capability of rationalization in order to preserve the identity of God. Essentially, God is personal (e.g. loving and concerned) or impersonal (e.g. bound to His law) as convenient. For example:

God does love you and wants you to exist in Heaven [personal] but if you don't accept Jesus as your Savior, then you won't be saved from your Sin [impersonal].

What's happing here is pretty obvious - God's necessary adherence to a fixed system is being used to extract Him from the contradiction between a God who wants to save you and a God who doesn't save you by inventing an incapability. I call it "impersonal" because it effectively negates the personal aspects of God to posit something akin to, "that's just the way it is".

I agree "unchanging" is not very well defined. I was trying to define it a little better and in a way in which God was not expected to to be a robot. Regardless, if unchanging is meant to refer to a standard a god chooses to adhere to, this standard doesn't seem to be a loving, merciful, or benevolent standard..at least not where the is an eternal punishment involved, but that doesn't mean god is not unchanging. He could just be an arse...an unchanging arse.

An unchanging arse... that's funny. :) You also state "chooses to adhere to", which seems to imply the possibility of change. If an unchanging God does exist, I don't think the standard could be chosen, but would rather define God. This would lead to another anticipated branch of the discussion, though...

As far as free will, I don't think having an absolute standard necessarily disallows free will, but as I mentioned before, I don't think any claimed being has ever acted by an absolute standard (at least not a benevolent one) and this could be inline with a free will.

This was more of a side-thought. I suppose that depends on the definition of free will, though. I've found that "the ability to have done otherwise" works well. According to this definition, if an absolute, governing standard exists, then free will does not.

I'm not sure if that is accurate. I can imagine human laws typically utilizing a specific standard (harm is bad), but that doesn't mean there is not a choice to do otherwise or the ability to hone laws to better achieve this standard, right?

But then what your describing isn't absolute, then, right? I don't think an unchanging being would deviate from an absolute standard, despite the end-goal being unaltered.
Skepticalone
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8/15/2016 5:06:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:58:48 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:48:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:17:40 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:59:07 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Hmmm, that's a good question. To me, 'unchanging' refers to some sort of absolute standard by which this being acts and guides human interactions. This standard might manifest differently in different situations, but should never contradict itself. I'm not aware of any claimed deity consistently insisting on actions which harm no one, or which do not cause harm unnecessarily.

Since this notion appears to be quite ambiguous and undefined, we could speculate on the details all day. The reason I posed this question is that I find that this introduces a strong capability of rationalization in order to preserve the identity of God. Essentially, God is personal (e.g. loving and concerned) or impersonal (e.g. bound to His law) as convenient. For example:

God does love you and wants you to exist in Heaven [personal] but if you don't accept Jesus as your Savior, then you won't be saved from your Sin [impersonal].

What's happing here is pretty obvious - God's necessary adherence to a fixed system is being used to extract Him from the contradiction between a God who wants to save you and a God who doesn't save you by inventing an incapability. I call it "impersonal" because it effectively negates the personal aspects of God to posit something akin to, "that's just the way it is".

I agree "unchanging" is not very well defined. I was trying to define it a little better and in a way in which God was not expected to to be a robot. Regardless, if unchanging is meant to refer to a standard a god chooses to adhere to, this standard doesn't seem to be a loving, merciful, or benevolent standard..at least not where the is an eternal punishment involved, but that doesn't mean god is not unchanging. He could just be an arse...an unchanging arse.

An unchanging arse... that's funny. :) You also state "chooses to adhere to", which seems to imply the possibility of change. If an unchanging God does exist, I don't think the standard could be chosen, but would rather define God. This would lead to another anticipated branch of the discussion, though...

If God cannot choose the standard, then he is at the mercy of his nature. That gets into the free will argument. I'll let others jump in here. ;-)

As far as free will, I don't think having an absolute standard necessarily disallows free will, but as I mentioned before, I don't think any claimed being has ever acted by an absolute standard (at least not a benevolent one) and this could be inline with a free will.

This was more of a side-thought. I suppose that depends on the definition of free will, though. I've found that "the ability to have done otherwise" works well. According to this definition, if an absolute, governing standard exists, then free will does not.

I'm not sure if that is accurate. I can imagine human laws typically utilizing a specific standard (harm is bad), but that doesn't mean there is not a choice to do otherwise or the ability to hone laws to better achieve this standard, right?

But then what your describing isn't absolute, then, right? I don't think an unchanging being would deviate from an absolute standard, despite the end-goal being unaltered.

I don't think the standard changes but rather the way it is implemented. I'm not assuming omniscience.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
EtrnlVw
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8/15/2016 5:42:59 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:48:23 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:37:34 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:

Right. This is certainly one facet of this issue, but I didn't want to branch out too much with the opening questions. I was (am) hoping for peoples' opinion on what "unchanging" really means, first.

Principles, that is what is "unchanging". We are observing the environment of God, not God, but His principles. Principles are fixed laws they are unchanging.
I'm gonna assume you have a sufficient understanding of what a principle is and how it works?
When we are observing or examining scripture we are examining the principles that follow, because essentially they are one and the same as God, however a principle is not personal, it's impersonal which is why people perceive God as some monster or a big meany, in reality we are observing the environment and nature of God (which is "unchanging") and not God Himself, though that is not out of the question either.

So basically rather than dealing directly with an Entity such as the Creator, we are dealing with principles, operating in them or not..... principles of the Spirit. God doesn't actually sit around rejecting and accepting people, or answering or not answering people rather we are following principles that work as it's own source/foundation, the principles do all the work just like natural laws, natural laws are as well "unchanging"..... same thing there.

What are we doing with these so-called "principles"? they are applied, when the principle is carried out without error it produces fruit (evidence), a harvest. This is the whole point of the Gospels, this is why Jesus came to testify, to show us how to operate therein.

That is the reason people perceive God as "unchanging" because we are observing His principles, and principles do not change.
Is God unchanging? depends on what you mean by that really, does His attributes change? does His feelings change? does His mind change? does His purpose change? I would say most likely not to all of those, for God has had a long time to contemplate His stance lol.
EtrnlVw
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8/15/2016 5:46:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
And yes, if we are operating through the spiritual in principle, then YES, we have our own will. We either choose to apply/abide in them or not, if we do, they produce fruit, if we don't we observe nothing in reality.
This is our individual choice.
Omniverse
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8/15/2016 6:13:59 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:37:34 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Another good question is, if God will is already determined, why pray?

Exactly.
If God is unchanging and all-knowing then all prayer and intercession are irrelevant from the get go. God won't change His mind, one way or the other.

Can an all-knowing unchanging God ever regret certain actions?

Apparently not.
Genesis 6:6 ( http://biblehub.com... )
"
The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
"

Isnt God's will always the best possible option? Is praying going to change his mind? If it does change his mind, does that mean his previous plans were not the best option? If he does not change his mind, why ask him for anything?

Excellent questions.
Some Christians want to have cake and eat it too.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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8/15/2016 6:58:21 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? ...

I believe it means God stays righteous as always and loves as always.
Chaosism
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8/15/2016 7:57:01 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 5:42:59 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:48:23 PM, Chaosism wrote:

Right. This is certainly one facet of this issue, but I didn't want to branch out too much with the opening questions. I was (am) hoping for peoples' opinion on what "unchanging" really means, first.

Principles, that is what is "unchanging". We are observing the environment of God, not God, but His principles. Principles are fixed laws they are unchanging.
I'm gonna assume you have a sufficient understanding of what a principle is and how it works?
When we are observing or examining scripture we are examining the principles that follow, because essentially they are one and the same as God, however a principle is not personal, it's impersonal which is why people perceive God as some monster or a big meany, in reality we are observing the environment and nature of God (which is "unchanging") and not God Himself, though that is not out of the question either.

So basically rather than dealing directly with an Entity such as the Creator, we are dealing with principles, operating in them or not..... principles of the Spirit. God doesn't actually sit around rejecting and accepting people, or answering or not answering people rather we are following principles that work as it's own source/foundation, the principles do all the work just like natural laws, natural laws are as well "unchanging"..... same thing there.

Thanks for your response. Okay, I understand what you're explaining, here. So, regarding these fixed principles: how did they come to exist? Did God establish them or are the separately existent?

What are we doing with these so-called "principles"? they are applied, when the principle is carried out without error it produces fruit (evidence), a harvest. This is the whole point of the Gospels, this is why Jesus came to testify, to show us how to operate therein.

That is the reason people perceive God as "unchanging" because we are observing His principles, and principles do not change.
Is God unchanging? depends on what you mean by that really, does His attributes change? does His feelings change? does His mind change? does His purpose change? I would say most likely not to all of those, for God has had a long time to contemplate His stance lol.


And yes, if we are operating through the spiritual in principle, then YES, we have our own will. We either choose to apply/abide in them or not, if we do, they produce fruit, if we don't we observe nothing in reality.
This is our individual choice.

By what manner do we make this decision, though. For instance, if the principles are actually good, why do some individuals come to adhere to them while others ignore them? In other words, what variable/factor is responsible for person A choosing adherence and person B choosing non-adherence?
Chaosism
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8/15/2016 7:57:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 6:58:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? ...

I believe it means God stays righteous as always and loves as always.

Could God choose to be otherwise?
Chaosism
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8/15/2016 7:59:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 5:06:30 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:58:48 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:48:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:17:40 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:59:07 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Hmmm, that's a good question. To me, 'unchanging' refers to some sort of absolute standard by which this being acts and guides human interactions. This standard might manifest differently in different situations, but should never contradict itself. I'm not aware of any claimed deity consistently insisting on actions which harm no one, or which do not cause harm unnecessarily.

Since this notion appears to be quite ambiguous and undefined, we could speculate on the details all day. The reason I posed this question is that I find that this introduces a strong capability of rationalization in order to preserve the identity of God. Essentially, God is personal (e.g. loving and concerned) or impersonal (e.g. bound to His law) as convenient. For example:

God does love you and wants you to exist in Heaven [personal] but if you don't accept Jesus as your Savior, then you won't be saved from your Sin [impersonal].

What's happing here is pretty obvious - God's necessary adherence to a fixed system is being used to extract Him from the contradiction between a God who wants to save you and a God who doesn't save you by inventing an incapability. I call it "impersonal" because it effectively negates the personal aspects of God to posit something akin to, "that's just the way it is".

I agree "unchanging" is not very well defined. I was trying to define it a little better and in a way in which God was not expected to to be a robot. Regardless, if unchanging is meant to refer to a standard a god chooses to adhere to, this standard doesn't seem to be a loving, merciful, or benevolent standard..at least not where the is an eternal punishment involved, but that doesn't mean god is not unchanging. He could just be an arse...an unchanging arse.

An unchanging arse... that's funny. :) You also state "chooses to adhere to", which seems to imply the possibility of change. If an unchanging God does exist, I don't think the standard could be chosen, but would rather define God. This would lead to another anticipated branch of the discussion, though...

If God cannot choose the standard, then he is at the mercy of his nature. That gets into the free will argument. I'll let others jump in here. ;-)

As far as free will, I don't think having an absolute standard necessarily disallows free will, but as I mentioned before, I don't think any claimed being has ever acted by an absolute standard (at least not a benevolent one) and this could be inline with a free will.

This was more of a side-thought. I suppose that depends on the definition of free will, though. I've found that "the ability to have done otherwise" works well. According to this definition, if an absolute, governing standard exists, then free will does not.

I'm not sure if that is accurate. I can imagine human laws typically utilizing a specific standard (harm is bad), but that doesn't mean there is not a choice to do otherwise or the ability to hone laws to better achieve this standard, right?

But then what your describing isn't absolute, then, right? I don't think an unchanging being would deviate from an absolute standard, despite the end-goal being unaltered.

I don't think the standard changes but rather the way it is implemented. I'm not assuming omniscience.

OK, but I think the analogy is too far off, now. I think this isn't the same as evaluating God's very nature as said standard.
Mhykiel
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8/16/2016 5:57:12 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot. I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God"s core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed? Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?

This thread is intended to gather responses from those who believe in an unchanging God (in some sense), but it's still open to anyone, being an public forum and all.

Integrity of character

If God were malevolent, there would be no redemption for him.
skipsaweirdo
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8/16/2016 11:03:16 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:26:06 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 8/15/2016 4:01:44 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/15/2016 3:33:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Certainly, a personal God that one is capable of having a relationship with would have to at least appear to change or react on some level (i.e. emotion-like response, or altered reactions) or else it would be akin to dealing with a programmed robot.
This is obviously a weak analogy fallacy as robot implies knowledge put into an artificial device where the wisdom of God would in no way be predictable, stale, uneventful, or relatable at all levels.
its a weak analogy because you assume a reflection of man is god. Robots, a reflection of man, cannot be a reflection of God. Now if im missing the point or taking it furthur than your actual meaning it's just to make the point. I get you're claiming unchanging somehow equates to a robot. But that observation would only be valid if you observed the robot from beginning of its program to the end of it then repeat. That says there would be a point where repetition is noticed. An unchanging God wouldnt entail repetition that is noticeable to people is my point.
Well, since this is inquisitive rather than assertive, I don't see how a fallacy is applicable. I don't really see relevance in the rest of this response, either.

I understand that "unchanging" in regard to God is not meant to mean, "100% static". :::: So, what does "unchanging" entail, exactly? Does this instead pertain to God"s nature or core being, and mean that God's core personality, ideals, and disposition are fixed?
If the wisdom of the God is absolute and beyond the intellect of the one who has his attention then no human could possibly know what an interaction with the God would entail.

OK, but this isn't an answer to the question. I understand the skeptical attitude and I'm inclined to agree, but this was directed towards people that held the belief that God was unchanging.
I answered it. If A god is unchnaging, as God is, it would still require the ability for a human to grasp why God is being "unchanging" which requires the wisdom to notice it. Humans wouldn't until after we die. Except me.
the Moreover, if free will is the inverse of a determined nature, does God lack free will in light of this?
Free will is only applicable in a dualists sense. If there is a God then there is a body-brain experience and a soul experience. Free will might be akin to the following scenario.

So, am I understanding correctly that souls are not subject to free will? And would you hold a different meaning for "free will" than "the ability to have done otherwise"?
Souls in bodies experience free will in as much as they can given the limitations thhat are stifled by the body. Souls once separated from the body, after death of course, are subject to free will. But it's a different sensation of choosing based on differing types of wisdom. Spiritual wisdom is hindered while in the body.
Imagine coming to a place where there are twenty different roads to chose to walk down. In Gods view of what is to be gained there is a specific spiritual lesson and no matter what road is chosen the spiritual lesson will be learned. On the other hand since the one chosing isn't aware of the spiritual lesson to be learned they perceive a road as an experience, there being twenty different "road experiences",